John Chang Video

[therion]

..

Edited March 17, 2007 by therion

[freesun]

Here is a much more recent (and most likely last ever) video with John Chang (John Dijang). It was shown on Sky Three originally.

 

[Spectrum]

Is this the video that shows clips from some footage in 1987 w/ the brother getting the eye treated then cutting to more current footage showing the Kris and chopstick?

[freesun]

Is this the video that shows clips from some footage in 1987 w/ the brother getting the eye treated then cutting to more current footage showing the Kris and chopstick?

 

Yes it is. I am sure it's been around for a while, but i hadn't seen it posted in this thread yet.

[gendao]

Edited October 26, 2011 by vortex

[gendao]

Edited November 17, 2009 by vortex

[Enishi]

The thing which most impressed me about Wang Liping's story was not so much the powers and wisdom itself, as it was the almost superhuman level of time, effort and hardship required to attain them.

 

Attaining greater health, joy, a stronger and higher frequency energy body, the ability to help others, coming into greater contact with the other side of reality, all of those things are possible in this lifetime.

 

Attaining Wang Liping's level, well, that is a different matter altogether it seems. It was Liping's MASTERS who sought HIM out. And truth be told, I don't really have the desire nor the discipline to spend several hours a day meditating over a cesspit.

 

I now feel quite foolish for thinking I could attain John Chang or Wang Lipings level if only I could train under Verdesi. Seeking the Tao should be one's goal. Whether it leads one to Wang Liping's attainments in this lifetime or another is not the main goal, the main goal is the path itself.

[ramus]

strange that this bunch of enlightened human use the law to decide who is right ...... What we have yet to see from this group of seedy characters?

[lino]

strange that this bunch of enlightened human use the law to decide who is right ...... What we have yet to see from this group of seedy characters?

 

I didn't catch everything, what do you mean?

[ramus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGIS0CvGz00

 

 

AHAHAHA it seems that David has not enabled the possibility to comment!

really strange, what do you think?

 

 

:D

Edited December 13, 2009 by ramus

[RiverSnake]

I can't dismiss what he is saying simply because is sounds fantastic.

Yes, I thuroughly accept the possibility that he is just some dude fucking with us...

 

Having an open-mind, though, is the wise thing to do.

 

Hmm... i tend to agree with this statement above, in my limited experience i've found that the minority and the people who sound the most outlandish in society are often on too the truth. Anyways... man this is one monster thread, took me about 3 hours to read.

A ton of the stuff naturally seems pretty far out there. Not sure what to believe, some people say David is a fraud while other people say Mantak Chia is a fraud. But still a very interesting thread. Gonna do a bit more investigating and read some more it can all be very confusing. Thanks for the Insight and info Seandenty and others.

 

-To your credit Seandenty you do sound very honest and sincere in your offer.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Tao Apprentice

[Owledge]

All people claiming those people are frauds are frauds themselves. And this statement itself is dishonest. And the dishonesty in it is fake.

[ramus]

Edited December 13, 2009 by ramus

[h.uriahr]

my experience of David is:

a person who lives in shit, super inflated or fabricated stories, tips and tricks.

Always presents himself as the person who is right, a small guru, this is his strategy for decades!

exploits friends, teachers and women, his only ability is to make others believe his nonsense.

 

Let go

[NeiChuan]

If theres so much of you/us against david V then why give him so much power. Your just burning of the - karma they may or may not be used for him later anyway.

[BeyondMaster]

now i'm confused!

what counts and what doesn't?

 

and I strongly disagree with the statement "heaven's will will send you a master" or similiar bullox.

 

It's about my life force which was given me since my birth. Why should it be someone else's will to be able to strengthen it?

 

it's full of contradictions!

[Orochi]

I have wondered, as I'm sure many others already have, how similar Mo Pai techniques of working with the LDT, is with teachings such as Taoist Yoga by Luk. Both seem to have collecting chi in the LDT as a central part of their practices.

[longwutao龍悟道]

Doesn`t vajrayana actually mean something like thunder (diamond) path?

literally vajra thunder or adamantine yana chariot or vehicle i i am shingon my self

[pushplay]

Wow. Since I started my search for information regarding John Chang 4 years ago, I never came across so much material until I found this Forum. Also, Im amazed how it has evolved since the first post until now.

 

First of all I would like to congratulate the moderator/administrator for the incredible job of withstanding so many conflicts, I'm pretty sure this is your zen trainning (with all due respect to all zen practicioners here).

 

The porpuose of this post is to share with you my experiences in the search for mysteries in the old traditions. I really hope this helps anyone out there trying to figure out this whole mess. Please I beg you excuse me for my not so good english and I'll try to elaborate as much as possible in some difficult subjects I find hard to explain in this language.

 

As a martial artist all I can tell you is that I was blessed with a great teacher who is true from top to bottom, but not because of his amazing superhuman powers but because of his commitment and true love to martial arts. His name is Fermin Morales and he is a Lima Lama teacher in Mexico city. Why do I think he is real? Well first of all from the most mundane aspect, he is a professional fighter and a National Kick Boxing Champion. Second because since very little he has dedicated his life to martial arts perfectioning and research. He was born in a very poor and tough neighborhood and he had to learn to defend himself from a very young age. From here all he cared was perfecting his technique, first for survival and years later for self mastering.

He never cared for money or fame, actually if you ever have the chance to come to my city you will find that he teaches in a very modest neighborhood (poor for american standards) in a simple small gym where many of the tranning items are hand made and charges only 50 dollars a month for all-you-can-train in terms of hours. Always on the learning process, he has never stopped studying new systems and he actually taught himself Enlgish in order to be able to read books in this language.The third reason I think is real is because his system doesn't have any secret deadly technique but hard work and discipline, actually he teaches in a very rough way which is famous because not everyone who enters is able to keep on with the trainning. This last thing confirms that he is not interested in making his art a trade like many so called teachers out there do (Don't misunderstand me he does teach anyone who is really interested in learning but he does expect some commitment and sacrifice). What does this has to do with this forum? well it was from him that I made up my own standards in order to look for internal art teacher. He also, in his way, has looked for grandmasters in martial arts and came to be dissapointed too like many of us here. He left me with some principles i would like to share with you:

 

1.- Anyone who teaches "the path" must have walked the path before.

Many people out there think they are masters just by holding a belt and having attended a few courses. In order to be able to transmit an art you must have lived the art, matured with the art and made it part of you. True masters live up to what they teach.

 

2.- "The path" is a lonely one.

You and only you truly know how much you have advanced in a certian discipline. A masters guidance and supervision is important but the only recognition must come from within. This is true for every enlightment path.

 

3.-Many teachers are jealous of their art and might withhold some of their teachings because of personal ego.

A true master, specially an enlightened one, is above his Ego. My master recommends not let your guard down, if something they are teaching you is not working for you dont discard it immediatly and try to see if its because its bullcrap or because they are concealing something from you.

 

4.- Test and experiment.

Not everything out there is useful and not everything is s$%#t. Use what works for you. Everyone has a different constitution and nature and might need a little tayloring of the art they practice.

 

Now I will talk about something more mystical in its nature: Traditional paths of knowledge.

Many of us, if not all of us, here are completely amazed by the traditional oriental mysteries and sometimes forget the rich and truly amazing treasures we have in the regions we live in. In my case I live in a country (Mexico) were shamanism was an everyday's activity in the ancient cultures that inhabited this place before the spanish conquest.Anyone who has read Carlos Cataneda's "teachings of Don Juan" might have a glimpse of what im talking about. Must of the shaman tradition derived to withcraft and folklore superstition nowdays but the power is still out there. For example mexican withcraft has some true manifestations thanks that it keeps some ancient practices that were passed down. I've heard that some real shammans are out there in some extremely poor and isolated communities in the middle of the jungle (south) or the desert (north) and dont look for any monetary gain in what they do. With this I've just said in the last paragraph I want to illustrate the next points:

 

1.- Just because an art is incomplete doesnt mean it is useless. I used to get very frustrated because of this everytime i tried learning an internal art and discovering that it was not truly original. Beware here too because being incomplete does may involve high risk.

 

2.- If you look for a traditional knowledge path try looking within your own country at first, mainly because it's gonna be easier and there are fewer chances of getting into a fraud ( you know the language and you might "know people" if you get my drift).

 

I also want to talk to you about what I've been reading here about tracking Mo pai or some look alike practice and all I can tell you is the facts that a have seen through your posts:

 

1.- Kosta Danaos and John Chang have renounced teaching.

 

2.- Sean Denty contradicts himself at least two times in his posts, first when he criticizes Healing tao by writing down the fact that a true teacher wont invite you to workshops ( Hmmmmmm Foundation trainning rings a bell) and secondly by posting a link of a video in youtube of his master's master, which is later proved in another video to be a fraud

 

3.- John Changs might or might not be a fraud but he is the only of the "grandmasters" discussed here that didn't make a penny with his teachings and didn't have any interest in proving to the world that what he does is real.

[Owledge]

Please I beg you excuse me for my not so good english and I'll try to elaborate as much as possible in some difficult subjects I find hard to explain in this language.

... And another one.

 

Welcome to The Tao Bums! Please excuse my good english.

[Trunk]

It's been over 4 years since this thread was active, but I think it was one of the most credible and informative re: an inside view of Mantak Chia's problematic "Healing Tao / Universal Tao" system. Particularly the posts by Sean Denty, who was a HT instructor, worked closely with senior HT instructors including M.Winn.

 

I had a little time so I clipped some of SDenty's more interesting comments re: the HT and quoted them below because newbies rarely put in the time to read the whole thread (nor even all the posts in this thread by SDenty).

 

I edited out to include just HT related comments and I put bold emphasis on especially important portions.

 

- Trunk

 

I have been to China recently and met others like John Dijang; real immortal masters like the kind in legends. My trip and training there was and is the culmination of several years of sweat and sacrifice that , to be frank, most would be unwilling to undergo. Yes, I have found a teacher who is willing to teach real, authentic neikung and I'm starting from square one after over ten years of training in what I thought were sound practices. Turns out I would have been better off not practicing those methods at all. Ironically, students with no training or qiging background are considered lucky; they don't have bad habits from years of wrong practice.

 

... It came as a shock to learn, after several years of heavy involvement with HT, that the entire system is a complete and total money scam. I was a Healing Tao instructor for a time and worked very closely with many senior instructors. I'm not asking for a debate on this issue or trying to dishearten the many sincere followers of the HT system that are members here on this forum, but what Chia is teaching has nothing and I mean nothing to do with neikung. It amounts to basic qigong, which is good for your health at best. The sexual stuff is just one of the minor Daoist teachings that leads to no achievement other than weak kidneys because it’s all taught incorrectly. I know many people who have literally ruined their health practicing this system. I was one of them. Thank God I met a real master who could fix my body. I know this is a strong statement, but it's my experience; it's very sad for me to log on here and listen to students go on about their experiences with useless practices, all the while thinking they are making progress. Talking about Kan and Li and Fusion; what a joke. These practices were completely invented by Mantak Chia and his Students, who don't even have the most basic achievement in terms of neikung.

 

The practices that form the basis of the Healing Dao system called Jiao Dao Yin, sexual cultivation, aren’t actually related to any of the major Dao. They are one of the many minor Daoist methods which, by there nature, do not and were never intended to lead to any major achievement. Now add to that the fact that Mr. Chia has not achieved any proficiency in even these minor practices and, to add insult to injury, doesn’t even know the correct techniques, and you have one hell of a situation. The practices taught in the so called Dao basics of the Healing Tao system leads to sick, twisted, stagnant qi; especially when practiced with fervor. If you just play around with it from time to time, you’re probably would never notice a problem, but if you really go for it, you’re going to screw up your system.

 

The so called micro cosmic orbit is commonly taught at clinics and hospitals in China; it does have some health benefits, but nothing special. It's not certainly not the high level practice it's being advertized as and it has nothing to do with the actual methods for cultivation or achieving enlightenment.

 

The truth is most of the practices in the Healing Dao are borrowed from books, made up or, it some cases, stolen from other systems. As an instructor I received many complaints about the Universal Dao and witnessed a very nasty lawsuit against Mantak Chia where he and his instructors had clearly stolen material from other authors and were trying to pass it off as there own. There have been several of these types of lawsuits; all covered of and payed off. During my time as an instructor, I spent three years working for Michael Winn.. We lived together during the summers at his school in New York. He revealed much to me in that time and other senior instructors did too. I also moved to New Jersey and studied closely with Ron Diana, whom I loved dearly and shared many great experiences with. You don’t get this close to an organization without becoming very familiar with the history and reality of it.

 

Turns out Mantak Chia’s Daoist training with this White Cloud teacher or whatever ended when he was about 13. Which would explain the ever fun inner smile and, “ okay kids, were going to do the magical healing sounds. Everyone gather round and sing along...” You get the idea. These practices were created to appeal to the wandering mind and emotions of children who, needing a more structured and fun approach, learn to focus their energy through these simple exercises which are design to simply calm the mind and relax the body.

 

Mantal Chia and most of his instructors actively searched for real teachers and found none. It’s not an easy path. Like any meditation or self inquiry, the practices these people teach lead to many sensations and feelings of which there is a limited number. To students with no knowledge or understanding of authentic practices, these can be powerful experiences, but they are all in the category of superficial sensory experience. Bliss and feelings of qi flow or happy happenings, while all pleasant experiences, are not significant when measuring progress in the practice of neikung.

 

It’s been suggested that a sense of well being and or happiness gained through the basic practices is somehow related to neikung. This is not the case. Point of fact, you can get these feelings from making love, eating chocolate and doing drugs.

 

As for the inner smile; if your convinced that this has some magical power, who can argue with that. I try to smile too when I’m feeling down. The act of praying for others or praying for yourself can be powerful, even life changing. I do pray and it’s an important part of my practice, but it’s not neikung.

 

What follows is a personal account of my recent trip to Asia that I shared with some fellow students. ...

 

... After he checked each person he would give a detailed report through the translator about the condition of each persons health and status of their over all energy and issue a clean bill of health or advise further treatment.

 

Sherfu recommended further treatment for several people in our group, including myself, later that day. The healings and treatments he administered that afternoon were probably the most remarkable and amazing things I have witnessed in my life up to this point. I will certainly never forget what I saw and what I went through. The only thing I can compare it to is watching my son’s birth.

 

..., I was asked to stay behind with the translator and some of Sherfu’s students. Three weeks earlier Sherfu L found an imbalance in my kidneys. He didn’t make much of it, but suggested I take some herbs which he prepared the following day and said that he felt the imbalance was due to improper qigong practice. ... As a side, David said that many people who practice the Healing Dao methods end up with this type of imbalance. In any case, on the morning that Sherfu J tested us, as he passed his qi into my left side the qi began to pulse, stopping and starting in a kind of rhythm as my arm contracted and released. He said that I had a fairly serious blockage in my kidney area and would need to draw some of the stagnant blood out and prepare some special herbal pills. One of the members of our group had been through something very similar and having shared their story, prepared me to some degree for what I was about to experience. That afternoon Sherfu had me stand on his porch as he lanced the veins in the back of both my knees with a prong the size of a knitting needle what seemed like at least a half inch into the flesh. After he got the blood flowing he used his qi to push the affected blood out of my body. What came out of me was about a half pint of what looked like roof tar. It was literally black and thick like a paste. Sherfu said that if I hadn’t come to him, I would have been quite possibly hit with a stroke within the year. After the treatment I actually felt really good. I was given several large herbal “pills” to clear anything that was left in my system. According to Sherfu, because of the properties of the type of medicine that I was given, I will never have to worry about this problem again and will be able to reach my optimal health. I guess these pills have a lot of qi and are a specialty of this lineage. I have to say, I really have been feeling good since I’ve been back. ...

 

...around 1998 I started training to become a Healing Tao instructor as I’ve written about on the Tao Bums forum; after several negative experiences there and the disappointment of realizing I was practicing ineffective and incomplete methods, I decided it was time to move on.

 

In 2000 ... It was around this time that I received information about an ongoing lawsuit against the Healing Tao from an Author named Master Choa Kok Sui; I guess he’s some kind of Pranic Healing guru. Anyway there was a copy of his book and a line by line comparison of one of Mantak Chia’s new books written by Dirk Oellibrandt. It was page after page of word for word plagiarism. At this point I wasn’t surprised, but I did some further research and turned up other, similar lawsuits.

 

For about a month after word, I received letters from Mantak Chia’s people asking instructors not to panic and saying that the Dao belongs to everyone and a bunch of explanations that, quite frankly didn’t excuse the obvious dishonesty taking place. Anyway, the whole thing was disgusting and totally deleted whatever little respect for the Healing Dao I had left at that point. Eventually the whole thing was covered up the Pranic Healing people were paid some kind of settlement or something to that effect. Ironically the book went on to be published with the plagiarism reworded. Of course, people just eat it up and think they’re gifted “cosmic healers” after a few months of training. Anyway I could write a book on all the crap that people buy into out there and It’s not my intention to make the focus of this letter about the Healing Tao, but it just really burns me up that I spent two years teaching people these methods and giving them hope and having to turn around and say sorry, it’s all pretty useless.

 

...

 

Ironically, in terms of cultivation, it makes no difference whether you ejaculate or not; sex of any kind wastes the fragile jing. In fact, it’s better for you to just ejaculate if you are not training. All this saving your self that Mantak Chia is preaching is basically fruitless. John Chang has normal sex with his wife twice a week and has for the last 40 years and he's one of the highest level masters on the planet.

[Leif]

I think it was one of the most credible and informative re: an inside view of Mantak Chia's problematic "Healing Tao / Universal Tao" system. Particularly the posts by Sean Denty, who was a HT instructor, worked closely with senior HT instructors including M.Winn.

Informative, yes. Credible? I read couple of Sean Denty's posts on the topic here and elsewhere and while I have no clue about his credibility his posts don't click with me.

(just an opinion of mere beginner who got the feeling he must rely more on his gut feelings than anything else in this "cultivation world", and who doesn't follow Winn's nor Chia's system)

Here is btw. Michael Winn's response: http://forum.healingdao.com/general/message/10475/

[VCraigP]

It's been over 4 years since this thread was active, but I think it was one of the most credible and informative re: an inside view of Mantak Chia's problematic "Healing Tao / Universal Tao" system. Particularly the posts by Sean Denty, who was a HT instructor, worked closely with senior HT instructors including M.Winn.

 

I had a little time so I clipped some of SDenty's more interesting comments re: the HT and quoted them below because newbies rarely put in the time to read the whole thread (nor even all the posts in this thread by SDenty).

 

I edited out to include just HT related comments and I put bold emphasis on especially important portions.

 

- Trunk

Trunk

 

I am more than a bit surprised by this bit of journalism here. In my view MR Denty's perspective is seriously biased and I think time has shown he had clear reasons for this bias as he was part of a team seeking to promote Verdesi. I also feel that characterizing Denty as being part of an "inner circle" may be a stretch unless you are only going by the statements and opinion of Denty himself.

 

Your report reads to me as a damning of all Healing Tao practices as "useless childs games" and all healing tao instructors as "without any accomplishments", not just a critique of the so called Healing Love practices.

 

In my view the healing love and the iron shirt practices are seriously flawed and incomplete respectively, but to throw out the whole teaching is in my opinion a simple minded approach.

 

Sean Denty had a serious axe to grind and I think you are doing a disservice to history here to make such a report. It is NOT fair and balanced :-) I was there. I read all the conversations avidly.

 

Craig

[Friend]

 

In my view the healing love and the iron shirt practices are seriously flawed and incomplete respectively, but to throw out the whole teaching is in my opinion a simple minded approach.

 

Craig

 

When it is flawed and incomplete where on can find the lost puzzle piece.

Since the teaching most come from somewhere and go somewhere.

I also see flaws there and I see also the flaws in the six healing sounds

but this is a general flaw I see until yet even from different sources.

 

Q

[gendao]

Informative, yes. Credible? I read couple of Sean Denty's posts on the topic here and elsewhere and while I have no clue about his credibility his posts don't click with me.

(just an opinion of mere beginner who got the feeling he must rely more on his gut feelings than anything else in this "cultivation world", and who doesn't follow Winn's nor Chia's system)

Here is btw. Michael Winn's response: http://forum.healingdao.com/general/message/10475/

M. Winn's ultra-jaded critiques always crack me the h*ll up, lol...

Details of Wang LI Ping's meditation techniques have already been published for free in the Empty Vessel, by someone else claiming to be his student, but obviously not iinterested in collecting a lot of money. The methods detailed in those articles basically involve cultivating "lines" of chi into the Third Eye and then down into the body along the same lines as detailed in the Inner Smile (front line of organs, back spine, middle digestive line). Looks like perfectly good meditation techniques.

Anyone know which issue this is??