John Chang Video

[RedFox]

Btw. Does anyone here know where I can find a torrent or place to download the full "ring of fire" program?

 

Several years ago when I was peeking down this particular path, I obtained the Ring of Fire video quite easily via interlibrary loan.

[DentyDao]

[Wayfarer64]

Thank you for your thoughts Sean!

I have been amazed at the willingness to experiment with serious and potentially dangerous practices in these pages. Even when we sense a need to explore these abilities, most humans have little capacity for such internal powers and can be a danger to themselves and others without much effort - Even if only a bit of these emmence potentials are released "just for practice".

Tapping into these energies is not all that hard for some people, as I have written on these pages before- some Gurus have shown powers but no integrity...

Many of us who seek inner paths to answer our life's quest for meaning, and reject the materialism of the wider world are still basically human -of course! Power can still corrupt us from within.

Please be careful out there " Do not try this at home" is a useful bit of advice for many of these practices.

Seeking power is a fool's errand if there is no wisdom attained before hand.

Please listen to Sean! He seems to have done his share of questing and practice to offer a fair warning.

 

I deeply believe that the first step is "conquering the self" before such energies can be used safely. This doesn't mean becoming someone else -a yin oriented or tranquill type of person . It means being in control of who you are, introverted, extroverted or whatever...These things can often enough even scare the masters who usually can control them.

I know a Kundalini master who created art works that seemed to have real yang powers! I showed his art in my gallery and ended up keeping the work in envelopes because they scared the hell out of me when I used them to concentrate meditative powers a couple times.

And Ive seen Grand Master Bill Chung on the back of the wildest stallion he could find -after signing a release to the stable...

One minute the fractious beast was spinning and bucking. Master Chung " tapped" its' neck and instantly the horse froze, started pissing with its ears back and nostrels flaring whinnying a whatthefuck!!!! in Equinese until kicked into a timid trot! I could only shake my head and chuckle.

So as bad as you think ya are, or as good as you hope ya are - take these things step by step.

[freeform]

I think most of us have taken into account the dangers of over-doing just about anything... What I find interesting are the 'super powers'. Not necessarily because I want to have some (although it would be fun ) I just want to get to the bottom of this...

 

Most of these 'super powers' are just perceptual illusions - i.e. they have an expalantion of how they can do it, but the way it works is far simpler. I've seen a number of great martial arts hypnotists. Zapping people from a distance, making them fall or flail around - I've seen pretty much the same tricks done by an actual hypnotist - and the process is pretty much the same. It's really not that hard once you have a large number of students and observers. The 100th monkey syndrome kicks in and you start believing that the master has some other-wordly power - so when he zaps you from a distance you dont hesitate to fall. As always if you present them a skeptical non-believer they fail to zap them effectively - then they explain from their model of how it all works - why it didn't work (his energy was flowing differently, he was distracted etc)

 

So what interests me are the levitation, walking through walls, teleporting, flying around etc.

 

Seeing Chang (Dijang) set the newspaper on fire was perplexing... it's an old trick I've seen done a number of times. So that's where the first bit of doubt kicks in. I'm not saying he didn't 'set the paper alight with his chi alone' but I'm saying that I'm already doubting it at that point because I've seen the same thing, but knowing 100% that it was a trick. I must admit that his zapping looked genuine - the hypnotist zappers go through a certain process to be able to do it on people - he didn't go through that process. So I'm now doubting my doubts

 

Walking through walls, levitating etc I have not seen demonstrated - so I cant comment. What I find puzzling though is when students of such masters (Sean - that's you I'm guessing ) claim that what other people are doing is generally 'wrong' (in the sense that it wont take them to the higher reaches of what's possible) - but then the 'right' way to do it is shrouded in secrecy.

 

I think Tao Bums has many progressive and experimental members that do all kinds of things all kinds of different ways - are we really missing some key secret ingredient? We combine mental, emotional and physical with the energetic - what is there that we're missing?

 

This is a really interesting subject for me - and I'm really enjoying this thread and Sean's input. I find it hard to put myself firmly into an oppinion and stick with it. There are doubts to sticking with either oppinion and I havent been able to resolve them.

 

I really want to learn 'what's the difference that makes the difference'. Hearing about all these extraordinary people I just want to see it for myself - or even better learn and experience it in myself.

 

Sean I'd really like to hear any other personal experiences that you're free to share with us. Also could you explain how the HT fundamentals (inner simle, 6 healing sounds, microcosmic orbit) are dangerous if practiced thoroughly?

 

thanks!

[rex]

We combine mental, emotional and physical with the energetic - what is there that we're missing?

 

How about spiritual committment?

[thaddeus]

[freeform]

How about spiritual committment?

 

- well I hope none of us take those four words as describing our entire practice. For me the spiritual comes as a result of working on the big four.

 

When people say that the practices we do won't lead to good results, we must be missing something very fundamental - I'm trying to work out what that is. It's like the extra 'secret' ingredient that only a select few seem to be aware of... but hundreds of thousands of other people miss...

[thaddeus]

When people say that the practices we do won't lead to good results, we must be missing something very fundamental - I'm trying to work out what that is. It's like the extra 'secret' ingredient that only a select few seem to be aware of... but hundreds of thousands of other people miss...

i agree. I made a personal committment to figure out what it is about taichi..what is the secret ingredient. Because it is extremely obvious that taichi is not helping most people...but every now and then you meet someone who has a piece of that recipe.

 

T

[Uncle Fester]

...

Edited September 18, 2021 by darebak

[rex]

When people say that the practices we do won't lead to good results, we must be missing something very fundamental - I'm trying to work out what that is.

Well it's certainly an attention grabber! We should be grateful to Sean and people like him for not leaving us in the dark. As for not leading to good results I suppose it depends on what is meant by good results - developing power or spiritual development (i.e. developed sense of kinship & responisbility, calmer mind, increased patience and compassion etc). You can have one without the other but if there are methods that don't make them mutually exclusive then all the better.

[...]

I read the books... They were great...

 

The instructions weren't spelled out, but if you read through the book, and have some experience withnei gung, you should be able to figure it out rather easily.

 

The first stage involves, mainly, just filling the dan tien with energy, and solidifying it there. If you have ever practiced bone-marrow nei gung (per mantak chia,) then you shouldn't have any problem figuring out how to do it.

It is also said elsewhere in one of the books that it is important to 'circulate' the chi via standing postures, (ie embracing the qi,) as an important supplement.

 

once you have enough energy stored in the dan tien, it will naturally rise up the spine. I am guessing than when you get so much of it pushed up the spine, voila, you have the kundalini awakening-- the first stepping stone on the road to immortality.

 

I fuck around with this practice a bit, solidfying qi in the dan tien. I can personally vouch for its effectiveness. I practiced it almost constantly for about a week or two.. and was having very strong sensations in my 4th chakra, thoractic spinal area, and even manged to get it pushing up into the base of my skull. I supplemented with bhanda lock techniques... And I am pretty much convinced that in a period of a few months (at the most,) of very dedicated practice, I could achieve the first stage.

[lotusbud]

What Sean says seems pretty much in line with what my teachers have said. Finding a master who knows what he or she is doing is essential. On your own you can improve your health and quality of life to a certain degree, which is certainly beneficial, but finding a master can save you decades of hard work.

 

One thing I was taught was the principle of "the masters look for students". It doesn't really work the other way around. The masters are looking for people who can accept the teaching. You can learn some movements and some breathing but the teaching is based on "the great dao has no form". There is more to it than just exercizes. This doesn't mean that we should just give up searching for them, as they do seem to be open to sincere people. But they know how not to be found. They can test you at any time. Not many people are willing to do the work of controlling and changing their thinking and attitudes, their actions and lives, from self-centeredness to love. If the student is not going to work on this then the master is just wasting their time.

 

Why liberate yourself from this plane of existance? Why become an imortal? To what purpose? If we don't know we may as well be lighting fireballs and levitating.

Edited September 26, 2006 by lotusbud

[DentyDao]

Edited September 26, 2006 by seandenty

[Buddy]

Still and all, to use these hokey "magic" tricks" is pretty lame and should make you all question its source.

[Pero]

Interesting topic. But I`m interested in something more concrete, like some technique or something. Can you share something Seandenty? And what do you think (or know from your experience) is wrong with the HT techniques?

 

The final element is that when Da Mo taught, the transmission became known as the Shaolin Wu Shu or the five arts of Shaolin. Namely: Yi Jin Jing, Shi Shui Jing, Long An Zhuan, Yi Zhi Chang and Jing Bu Gang.

 

What are these in English: "Long An Zhuan, Yi Zhi Chang and Jing Bu Gang"?

I know about Yi Jin Jing (which is muscle/tendon changing) and Shi Shui Jing (bone marrow cleansing if I`m not mistaken), but I don`t remember hearing about the rest (at least not in Chinese).

[freeform]

Point of fact, Sherfu Wong Kiew Kit has on many occasions demonstrated the braking of bricks and this cloud dispersing demonstration that I hear people on this forum refer to from time to time. These demonstrations, while not representative of full achievement, are beyond ordinary human capacity and serve to inspire students and build faith in the practice, not demoralize them or cause people to become inflated and insane with greed for power.

 

I've done a bit of cloud busting...

 

I've seen people blasting clouds away, having a maximum of 20 minutes training.

 

Breaking bricks might take longer to master - but it's no 'walking through solid walls'... that's altogether something different.

 

 

You're right - this stuff needs to be seen to be believed - and however trustworthy other people seem, I'd have to see it for myself - to verify its truth for me.

 

 

what still mistifies me is 'what one does to be able to do these things'. As you say it's all good when someone's claiming they're enlightened, that they have super-human powers... but how is this achieved? what fundamental difference is in their practice that allows them such a huge difference than 'us'?

 

I've seen some amazing things that would shift most people's idea of human ability... but slicing through bananas, pushing over objects without touching, walking through solid walls etc. is something that's so distant from my experience that it's still unbelievable.

 

Especially since you condemn many of our practices as ineffective - when many of us have had a lot success and some facinating experiences with them... was what we experienced not real? - was it only the tip of the proverbial iceberg?

[thelerner]

As far as cloud busting goes, I like looking up at the sky. One thing you notice is clouds kind of morph by themselves. You stare at one continually and they do fade in and out. I'm not sure if any extra power is needed to do it.

 

Michael

[DentyDao]

I've done a bit of cloud busting...

 

I've seen people blasting clouds away, having a maximum of 20 minutes training.

 

Really? The people at Shaolin Wahnam are claiming this is high level stuff. Maybe I'll get out there and see if I can bust up some clouds.

 

breaking bricks might take longer to master - but it's no 'walking through solid walls'... that's altogether something different. You're right - this stuff needs to be seen to be believed - and however trustworthy other people seem, I'd have to see it for myself - to verify its truth for me.

I know how you feel.

 

what still mistifies me is 'what one does to be able to do these things'. As you say it's all good when someone's claiming they're enlightened, that they have super-human powers... but how is this achieved? what fundamental difference is in their practice that allows them such a huge difference than 'us'?

 

As I said before, you need three things to be successful; correct method, correct technique and a teacher who's interested in teaching and has the ability. The Healing Dao has none of the three requirements.

 

I've seen some amazing things that would shift most people's idea of human ability... but slicing through bananas, pushing over objects without touching, walking through solid walls etc. is something that's so distant from my experience that it's still unbelievable.

Normal

 

Especially since you condemn many of our practices as ineffective - when many of us have had a lot success and some facinating experiences with them... was what we experienced not real? - was it only the tip of the proverbial iceberg?

 

 

Oh? do tell.

Edited September 27, 2006 by seandenty

[Wayfarer64]

Sean,

You are starting to sound like a recruiter for your system and your teacher.

This is a very interesting thread and many serious topics have been raised. But if it is about bringing new students to your teacher than let us know that also. Many of us here have been seeking internal paths for physical strength, mental clearity, peace of mind, a sense of spiritual oneness with our environment, even "magical" powers have been mentioned.

I for one am only seeking harmony within myself and with the world I live in.

To me striving for enlightenment is like trying to find true love by casting a net. It is not an appropriate way to go about the attainment.

Only by letting go of the self can we find our centers. That self, in fact that which dies, has to be transcended for our minds to be opened. I for one have only glimpsed this quality and only when I was mentally "sure " that I was as good as dead already. I gave up my grip on my life and became one with my dieing, with my pain, and then with my seperation from life (as I knew it then).

Obviously I did not die. But-

It was as if I became a being only of spirit and was able to leave my body. There are many accounts of such "out of body" experiences...

I did however retain the idea of my "true being" as being what could be thought of as "more than" mortal. And I believe such experiences are a key to the mystical powers some seek here.

These sorts of experiences have been spoken of by many accident victims and war casualties etc. But the common element is letting go of the self, of that which dies.

This is why I have such serious concerns for the kinds of paths offered to people and what sort of techniques are used to bring about the release from the self.

I do not recommend the traumatic! It is counter-productive to psychic health, and physical health as well.

An able and wise master can surely prepare his students much better for attaining a release from the self and entering a realm of spiritual being that is intrinsicly not of the lower levels of consciousness. And then be able to maintain this level of consciousness.

My point being that there is no true way to pursue power before one is ready to be selfless and live with a conscious mind that is basicly without a will unconnected to the environment one is in.

This is both Stoic and Taoist philosophy.

Any personal striving will not lead to enlightened consciousness. Seeking a way to manifest Devotion to all of life offers some small hope of enlightenment is another way to say this.

[DentyDao]

Hey Wayfarer,

 

Sean,

You are starting to sound like a recruiter for your system and your teacher.

This is a very interesting thread and many serious topics have been raised. But if it is about bringing new students to your teacher than let us know that also.

 

I don't think I could make it any clearer. I wouldn't use the term recruite.

[cloud recluse]

i agree. I made a personal committment to figure out what it is about taichi..what is the secret ingredient. Because it is extremely obvious that taichi is not helping most people...but every now and then you meet someone who has a piece of that recipe.

 

T

 

Eeeeeek.Ive only just started Tai Ji,with no real idea of how to assess what Im doing.Any pointers here Thad?

 

I've done a bit of cloud busting...

 

 

Now I feel threatened

 

Regards,Cloud

[Uncle Fester]

...

Edited September 18, 2021 by darebak

[Wayfarer64]

Hey Sean,

No offense meant! Perhaps "seeking companions on the way" works better as an expression of what I think you want.

So far in my humble experience,with the master's I have met, I have found massive egos still well situated among their many other attributes.

Humility, compassion, perseverance and stoicism are what I look for now. In myself and my fellow humans. I know I lack these traits much of the time and hope to become more open to my potential for them. The power I seek is no longer martial - as it once was. Any teacher who shows me such traits will have my attention.

Getting back "into shape" holds some interest also. Still, at 52 I'm likely too old a dog for new training...&

I do not see myself needing to walk through walls anytime soon.

But as the "original Yoda" minght say... It's ready to listen, I am.

Is your teacher likely to want to meet a cranky middle-aged stoic & middle-way walker?

[DentyDao]

Hey Sean,

No offense meant! Perhaps "seeking companions on the way" works better as an expression of what I think you want.

So far in my humble experience,with the master's I have met, I have found massive egos still well situated among their many other attributes.

Humility, compassion, perseverance and stoicism are what I look for now. In myself and my fellow humans. I know I lack these traits much of the time and hope to become more open to my potential for them. The power I seek is no longer martial - as it once was. Any teacher who shows me such traits will have my attention.

Getting back "into shape" holds some interest also. Still, at 52 I'm likely too old a dog for new training...&

I do not see myself needing to walk through walls anytime soon.

But as the "original Yoda" minght say... It's ready to listen, I am.

Is your teacher likely to want to meet a cranky middle-aged stoic & middle-way walker?

 

No offense taken. 52 is young baby! By the way the Gong that I speak of is not martial in nature.

 

Yes, we have some cranky old people in our group already, so maybe you could cheer them up.

[三江源]

hmm. This is all very interesting.

 

I read the books about Jon Chang too and found them entertaining and I believe that he has powers beyond my

experience.

 

I would be grateful to be corrected in my practise, if the HT methods that I use are so weak or poor.

 

The proof of the pudding, as they say, is in the eating. Seandenty, hi - through the HT work I've done, I have changed a good deal, in that I no longer am impatient and irritable and flammable of mood. I also am much healthier. I feel more centred and calm and free from reactivity. I have experienced a lot of bliss from doing the mediatations, and my level of happiness in day to day life is higher, as a norm.

 

 

What do you think I could be achieving with a 'better' teacher?

I do not practise for four hours a day. I have a family to look after, and I do all my chores without stress, because of the inner reserves of calm I have through HT practises.

 

I would like to go to China , or Java and be taught. What would I be taught?

 

Thanks seandenty.

Edited September 27, 2006 by cat