[TTC Study] Chapter 40 of the Tao Teh Ching

[Marblehead]

Chapter 40

 

John Wu

 

The movement of the Tao consists in Returning.

The use of the Tao consists in softness.

All things under heaven are born of the corporeal:

The corporeal is born of the Incorporeal.

 

 

English/Feng

 

Returning is the motion of the Tao.

Yielding is the way of the Tao.

The ten thousand things are born of being.

Being is born of not being.

 

 

Robert Henricks

 

"Reversal" is the movement of the Dao;

"Weakness" is the function of the Dao.

The things of the world originate in being,

And being originates in nonbeing.

 

 

 

There's that favorite word of mine again: "Weakness"

 

Question? Comments?

[deci belle]

Return is the movement of the way.

We follow the way to learn its subtleties.

Imitating the movement of the way,

we reverse the light of consciousness

to follow it back to its source.

 

The source of the light

is the foundation of nonorigination.

Discovering nonorigination,

the causelessness on the brink

of nothing deliberate

has never acted.

 

Once created,

the movement of its way is return.

What cannot yield has its weakness

So life and death are equal.

 

I'd just written something in reference to chapter 40, so I put a part of it here!❤

Edited May 26, 2011 by deci belle

[Marblehead]

 

I'd just written something in reference to chapter 40, so I put a part of it here!❤

 

Thanks.

 

Yes. Return. The completion of the cycle. Many cycles in our life. The biggest one, of course, being birth and death. Creation and destruction.

 

And then the beginning of a new cycle. (No, my Buddhist friends, I'm not talking about reincarnation. Hehehe. More at transmutation. One thing becomes something else.)

[manitou]

Life's a verb.

 

Lin Yutang made a slight differentiation: 'Gentleness is the function of the Tao'.

Edited May 26, 2011 by manitou

[Marblehead]

Life's a verb.

 

Lin Yutang made a slight differentiation: 'Gentleness is the function of the Tao'.

 

Yes, life is a verb.

 

I still have a problem with the "gentleness" even.

 

There is a lot of violence in the universe. Our solar system was a result of a massive star exploding. And consider all the collisions that happened during planet formation.

 

And even in simple nature. Ants eat a dead lizard and then a live lizard comes along and eats the ants. I can watch that while just sitting outside my front door.

 

Even defining the function of Tao is to limit its function (in our mind).

 

(I'm still working on that "I don't know." statement.)

[manitou]

Yes, life is a verb.

 

I still have a problem with the "gentleness" even.

 

There is a lot of violence in the universe. Our solar system was a result of a massive star exploding. And consider all the collisions that happened during planet formation.

 

And even in simple nature. Ants eat a dead lizard and then a live lizard comes along and eats the ants. I can watch that while just sitting outside my front door.

 

Even defining the function of Tao is to limit its function (in our mind).

 

(I'm still working on that "I don't know." statement.)

 

I know what you mean about the gentleness thing. But the way I look at it, one of the 3 Treasures of the sage is Love. So if one is to ever become as the sage, love would be incorporated into all his actions. Love means very different things in different situations. But it's always the high road. Sometimes it just means not flipping someone off in traffic. I think this is the biggest and hardest part of our inner cultivation - to develop Love in the face of all the violence we see and hear about, and particularly to try and try to react in a loving way even when the aggravations get ridiculous. This daily practice is the real essence, in my opinion. Love can only be attained by non-judgment, the kind of love the sage has. He may not even divide things into violent and non-violent, I don't know. Maybe violence isn't a Good or Bad thing. Maybe it's just an Is thing.

This sounds crazy, but back when I was a working 'dick' (pardon the old cop coming out in me) after years of investigating sex crimes and homicides, I started actually talking to the rapists or child molesters that were in custody - either because someone in patrol snagged them, or because my partner and I made the arrest. Of course, I would always have to read them their rights and do a regular interrogation. But often times the perp would not waive his rights and not want to talk about the crime. After I'd been working sex crimes for about 10 years, something inside me changed. I started sticking around, even if they didn't waive their rights, and see if they wanted to talk about other things. Anything. The result of the conversation was usually that we achieved a meeting of the minds; a meeting in which I would at least try to plant a seed; a seed that could grow and give him a glimmer of hope that he didn't have to live his life that way. Of course, any of this wasn't used in court, it was just a personal thing I started doing.

 

I actually got a payoff some years later when I ran into a rapist I'd thrown in jail and he'd gone to prison for a few years. He was a short latino man, teardrop tattoo under the eye, you've got the picture. He was one nasty dude, as were all the males in his family. But I actually ran into him at an AA meeting. Not just ran into him, we actually happened to be standing next to each other and holding hands while saying the Serenity prayer. He recognized me first, and I was absolutely astounded when he reminded me who he was. I couldn't believe it.

 

But the point is, that he told me that something about what we'd been talking about (when I arrested him) led him to seek out AA meetings in prison. When I realized it was him, we embraced tightly, and for for than a few seconds. I wish I could say that story had a happy ending, but about a year later I heard he was shot robbing a liquor store.

 

But something a little softer and gentler was born inside him, even though he wasn't able to keep it. His death made me cry.

[Marblehead]

I know what you mean ...

 

And yes, I hear what you are saying and respect the journey you are walking right now.

 

It would be nice if life were a bit more gentle and kind for so many people. A lot of people aren't even given the chance to experience what you are experiencing now.

[ChiDragon]

Chapter 40

40

1. 反者道之動。

2. 弱者道之用。

3. 天下萬物生於有，

4. 有生於無。

 

 

1. Reaction is Tao's action.

2. Weakness is Tao's function.

3. All things of the world came from Visible.

4. Visible came from Invisible.

 

Notes:

1. Weakness is softness.

2. Visible is Tao in the visible state.

3. Invisible is Tao in the invisible state.

[Marblehead]

You folks just love to bug me with that word "weakness", don't you? Hehehe.

[ChiDragon]

弱者(weakness) is the direct translation for the classic text. It is because that was the way how the classic was written to express for the meaning of "softness" at the time or by LaoTze. It was confusing to the modern Chinese as well as to a westerner.

 

If you like to rephrase it, it is OK but it would loose its authenticity. That is why I had put the explanation in the notes for the reader to understand it better.

 

1. Reaction is Tao's action.

2. Softness is Tao's function.

3. All things of the world came from Visible.

4. Visible came from Invisible.

Edited May 27, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

弱者(weakness) is the direct translation for the classic text. It is because that was the way how the classic was written to express for the meaning of "softness" at the time or by LaoTze. It was confusing to the modern Chinese as well as to a westerner.

 

If you like to rephrase it, it is OK but it would loose its authenticity. That is why I had put the explanation in the notes for the reader to understand it better.

 

1. Reaction is Tao's action.

2. Softness is Tao's function.

3. All things of the world came from Visible.

4. Visible came from Invisible.

 

Yes, when presented to the reader the translation should be as true as possible to the original authors work. I realize the "weakness" is probably the 'best' word to use when translating.

 

However, anything I consider is considered as to how it can help me live a more peaceful ife. I will discard anything that does not apply to my life and I will add where there are shortcomings.

 

I think that this is the real reason most of us read things that support our beliefs - to help us live a better life. Not everything applies to everyone's life. We should discard the useless and harmful and hold to only what is useful in our life.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Marblehead

[Eric23]

Just a spontaneous, off the wall thought that came to me while reading this chapter. Could the motion of the Tao being connected to the breath?

[ChiDragon]

Action and reaction applies to the yin-yang concept. Action is yang and reaction is yin, however one wish to apply it. If there is a yin, there must be a yang and vice versa. One is never stand alone or separated from the other. In the case of breathing, inhale was considered yang and exhale was yin.

[Marblehead]

Action and reaction applies to the yin-yang concept. Action is yang and reaction is yin, however one wish to apply it. If there is a yin, there must be a yang and vice versa. One is never stand alone or separated from the other. In the case of breathing, inhale was considered yang and exhale was yin.

 

Nice.

 

I also like to consider Chi as the breath of Tao.

[dawei]

Being a short chapter, I will share Rudolf Wagner's Translation of the Wang Bi commentary:

 

He who acts by way of the negative opposite [ie: Sage] is the one who moves [in accordance with] the Way.

He who is weak [ie: Sage] is the one who makes use of the Way.

The entities of all under heaven have [their] life in [the realm of] the Entity,

but Entity has [its] life in negativity. -- Tr. Wagner

 

Wagner says that, "the very complicated translation for 反 here as 'acting by way of the negative opposite' is based on the context both in Wang Bi on Laozi 28.5 and here. At it's core is the notion that the ruler with his high position and immeasurable wealth has to perform publicly the negative opposite in order to stabilize society and to secure his life and position.".

Edited June 11, 2011 by dawei

[dawei]

Although I usually like terse translations this is on where I prefer to say more in this translation like Wagner does. Here is my version and I'll forewarn that I don't like 'weakness' :

 

The one who possesses reciprocity is in accordance with the movement of Dao.

And is one who yields in accordance with the function of Dao.

All things under heaven are a product of the visible realm

And the visible world is a product of the invisible realm.

 

Note:

The Guodian text did not have 'you' in the last line so it could be read as:

All things under heaven are a product of the visible realm

[and] a product of the invisible realm.

 

I think most feel the repeat character (for 'you') was a typist oversight and so 'you' is repeated in most manuscripts.

[Procurator]

Being a short chapter, I will share Rudolf Wagner's Translation of the Wang Bi commentary:

 

He who acts by way of the negative opposite [ie: Sage] is the one who moves [in accordance with] the Way.

He who is weak [ie: Sage] is the one who makes use of the Way.

The entities of all under heaven have [their] life in [the realm of] the Entity,

but Entity has [its] life in negativity. -- Tr. Wagner

 

Wagner says that, "the very complicated translation for 反 here as 'acting by way of the negative opposite' is based on the context both in Wang Bi on Laozi 28.5 and here. At it's core is the notion that the ruler with his high position and immeasurable wealth has to perform publicly the negative opposite in order to stabilize society and to secure his life and position.".

 

 

wagner is par for the course, nonsensical, he makes the same customary mistake of reading 者 as a person))

 

first line is describing how Dao operates, while second line gives the obvious but uncomprehended example

 

 

反者道之動；弱者道之用。

 

recycling is Dao's process, death is Dao's application

 

天下萬物生於有，有生於無

 

under Heaven all things are born into being, and from being born go into nothingness.

 

simple really.

[ChiDragon]

wagner is par for the course, nonsensical, he makes the same customary mistake of reading 者 as a person))

 

first line is describing how Dao operates, while second line gives the obvious but uncomprehended example

 

 

反者道之動；弱者道之用。

 

recycling is Dao's process, death is Dao's application

 

 

天下萬物生於有，有生於無

 

under Heaven all things are born into being, and from being born go into nothingness.

 

simple really.

simple really.

 

I will not comment on the former, bit it seems to me the logic was reversed in the latter.

 

Should it read(keeping your own words)...???

天下萬物生於有，有生於無

under Heaven all things are born from being, and being born from nothingness.

Edited June 13, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Procurator]

[dawei]

[Procurator]

oh the direction matters immensely things come from nothingness live for a while then get recycled back into nothingness. so the later maxim says " going in that direction ppl are borm, counter to it - immortals" u gotta know yr directions))

[dawei]

Ok... I was having a hard time getting the "into" direction 'into' my head... now I get it. I wonder if the moment in time of the directional 'born' or 'recycle' is what is being suggested also? Meaning, you could be in the middle of another process?

[Procurator]

i am not sure about "another process" but yes the timing at which the U-turn occurs is , in fact, being suggested here by semantics of

 

Die off, pass away: 又弱一個 another one has passed away.

Words 1. 弱點 [ruo4dian3], n., weaknesses, weak points.

老弱 old and infirm

3. 弱冠 [ruo4guan4], n., (1) formerly, the coming of age at 20; (2) youth.

 

its not some kind of jujitsu weakness/softness by which strength is defeated, as misunderstood by translators and bandied about by naive readers, not at all. "softness" is a misconception of what actually is been said here.

 

its just, that at the onset of puberty (13 to 20 yrs for humans) the Dao starts to instill senility into living things to recycle them back into nothingness.

[dawei]

i am not sure about "another process" but yes the timing at which the U-turn occurs is , in fact, being suggested here by semantics of

 

 

 

its not some kind of jujitsu weakness/softness by which strength is defeated, as misunderstood by translators and bandied about by naive readers, not at all. "softness" is a misconception of what actually is been said here.

 

its just, that at the onset of puberty (13 to 20 yrs for humans) the Dao starts to instill senility into living things to recycle them back into nothingness.

Actually you corrected me (another process) to what I meant (u-turn). That was the other process, the U-turn.... from recycle. Got you.

[Marblehead]

I will not comment on the former, bit it seems to me the logic was reversed in the latter.

 

Should it read(keeping your own words)...???

天下萬物生於有，有生於無

under Heaven all things are born from being, and being born from nothingness.

 

I wonder if that last word, "nothingness", is valid. Being is born from non-being, (Mystery, potential) not nothingness.