[TTC Study] Chapter 40 of the Tao Teh Ching

[ChiDragon]

Please don't take it too seriously. The term "straw dog" was only an effigy used by Lao Zi in his metaphor. What he meant was that you have been treated equally and impartially. He was not calling anybody a dog. The straw dog itself has nothing to do with you personally but only philosophically.

I think you knew this all along. However, you are just being naughty with the words now. If you keep it up like this, then there is no point in keeping our foregoing conversation in the near future. Sorry, the reason I said that is because I felt that we are not making progress in the study of the TTC. We don't want to be stagnated at one place all the time. Do we...???

Edited November 27, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

Please don't take it too seriously. The term "straw dog" was only an effigy used by Lao Zi in his metaphor. What he meant was that you have been treated equally and impartially. He was not calling anybody a dog. The straw dog itself has nothing to do with you personally but only philosophically.

That is the way I have always viewed that. That is why I am always fussing whenever the subject comes up for discussion.

 

I think you knew this all along. However, you are just being naughty with the words now. If you keep it up like this, then there is no point in keeping our foregoing conversation in the near future.

But then, if others speak to it I am bound to respond.

 

Sorry, the reason I said that is because I felt that we are not making progress in the study of the TTC. We don't want to be stagnated at one place all the time. Do we...???

Yep. Here we are talking about Chapter 40. There are 80 other chapters we could talk about.

 

I am always ready to talk about anything within the TTC or The Chuang Tzu.

 

And I will always share my understandings and opinions.

[dawei]

Please don't take it too seriously. The term "straw dog" was only an effigy used by Lao Zi in his metaphor. What he meant was that you have been treated equally and impartially. He was not calling anybody a dog. The straw dog itself has nothing to do with you personally but only philosophically.

 

I think you knew this all along. However, you are just being naughty with the words now. If you keep it up like this, then there is no point in keeping our foregoing conversation in the near future. Sorry, the reason I said that is because I felt that we are not making progress in the study of the TTC. We don't want to be stagnated at one place all the time. Do we...???

 

I think you want to down play or under estimate the role of the dog in paleolithic and neolithic times. Or you just don't care.... or you just don't know. RESEARCH IT.

[Taoist Texts]

《禮記 - Liji》

[Warring States (475 BC - 221 BC)]

 

 

38 曾子問: Zengzi Wen:

曾子問曰：「葬引至於堩，日有食之，則有變乎？且不乎？」

Zeng-zi asked, 'At a burial, when the bier has been drawn to the path (leading to the place), if there happen an eclipse of the sun, is any change made or not?'

孔子曰：「昔者吾從老聃助葬於巷黨，及堩，日有食之，老聃曰：『丘！止柩，就道右，止哭以聽變。』既明反而後行。曰：『禮也。』反葬，而丘問之曰：『夫柩不可以反者也，日有食之，不知其已之遲數，則豈如行哉？』老聃曰：『諸侯朝天子，見日而行，逮日而舍奠；大夫使，見日而行，逮日而舍。夫柩不早出，不暮宿。見星而行者，唯罪人與奔父母之喪者乎！日有食之，安知其不見星也？且君子行禮，不以人之親痁患。』吾聞諸老聃云。」

Confucius said, 'Formerly, along with Lao Dan, I was assisting at a burial in the village of Xiang, and when we had got to the path, the sun was eclipsed. Lao Dan said to me, "Qiu, let the bier be stopped on the left of the road; and then let us wail and wait till the eclipse pass away. When it is light again, we will proceed." He said that this was the rule. When we had returned and completed the burial, I said to him, "In the progress of a bier there should be no returning. When there is an eclipse of the sun, we do not know whether it will pass away quickly or not, would it not have been better to go on?" Lao Dan said, "When the prince of a state is going to the court of the son of Heaven, he travels while he can see the sun. At sun-down he halts, and presents his offerings (to the spirit of the way). When a Great officer is on a mission, he travels while he can see the sun, and at sun-down he halts. Now a bier does not set forth in the early morning, nor does it rest anywhere at night; but those who travel by star-light are only criminals and those who are hastening to the funeral rites of a parent. When there is an eclipse of the sun, how do we know that we shall not see the stars? And moreover, a superior man, in his performance of rites, will not expose his relatives to the risk of distress or evil." This is what I heard from Lao Dan.'

 

 

(An important proof of Lao-zi to Kong-zi transmission)

[Marblehead]

Too many rites and rituals in there for me.

 

I would still question that the two ever met because of the generally accepted dates the two lived.

 

That whole thing sounded Confucian to me.

[Taoist Texts]

That whole thing sounded Confucian to me.

24. According to the Confucius Genealogy Compilation Committee, he has 2 million known and registered descendants, and there are an estimated 3 million in all.

https://biographies.knoji.com/25-interesting-facts-about-confucius-a-great-chinese-philosopher/

[Marblehead]

I'm pretty sure I'm not one of them.

[rene]

《禮記 - Liji》

 

[Warring States (475 BC - 221 BC)]

 

 

38 曾子問: Zengzi Wen:

曾子問曰：「葬引至於堩，日有食之，則有變乎？且不乎？」

Zeng-zi asked, 'At a burial, when the bier has been drawn to the path (leading to the place), if there happen an eclipse of the sun, is any change made or not?'

孔子曰：「昔者吾從老聃助葬於巷黨，及堩，日有食之，老聃曰：『丘！止柩，就道右，止哭以聽變。』既明反而後行。曰：『禮也。』反葬，而丘問之曰：『夫柩不可以反者也，日有食之，不知其已之遲數，則豈如行哉？』老聃曰：『諸侯朝天子，見日而行，逮日而舍奠；大夫使，見日而行，逮日而舍。夫柩不早出，不暮宿。見星而行者，唯罪人與奔父母之喪者乎！日有食之，安知其不見星也？且君子行禮，不以人之親痁患。』吾聞諸老聃云。」

Confucius said, 'Formerly, along with Lao Dan, I was assisting at a burial in the village of Xiang, and when we had got to the path, the sun was eclipsed. Lao Dan said to me, "Qiu, let the bier be stopped on the left of the road; and then let us wail and wait till the eclipse pass away. When it is light again, we will proceed." He said that this was the rule. When we had returned and completed the burial, I said to him, "In the progress of a bier there should be no returning. When there is an eclipse of the sun, we do not know whether it will pass away quickly or not, would it not have been better to go on?" Lao Dan said, "When the prince of a state is going to the court of the son of Heaven, he travels while he can see the sun. At sun-down he halts, and presents his offerings (to the spirit of the way). When a Great officer is on a mission, he travels while he can see the sun, and at sun-down he halts. Now a bier does not set forth in the early morning, nor does it rest anywhere at night; but those who travel by star-light are only criminals and those who are hastening to the funeral rites of a parent. When there is an eclipse of the sun, how do we know that we shall not see the stars? And moreover, a superior man, in his performance of rites, will not expose his relatives to the risk of distress or evil." This is what I heard from Lao Dan.'

 

 

(An important proof of Lao-zi to Kong-zi transmission)

 

Taoist Texts

 

Hello and thank you for posting that. Yes - the meeting between Laozi and Kongzi, as found in the Confucian records, is one of the few 'outside proofs' extant. Nice to see it referenced. (-:

 

warm regards