Wu Liu Pai

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Golden Path]

I am interested to hear a summary of the book by Charles Luk

"Taoist Yoga, Alchemy and Immortality" which has a connection to the Wu Liu Pai.

Hi Friend, yes, one lines of transmission is the Xian-Tian Pai school, whose popularity stems because of the book by Zhao Bi-chen “Secrets of cultivation of Life and Destiny”. This book was translated into English by Lu K'uan Yu (Charles Luk) and published like “Taoist Yoga, Alchemy and Immortality”.

But the Wu-Liu Pai school does not recognize Xian-Tian Pai as preserving the full transmission.

 

Zhao Bi-chen's school is the latest branch the Wu Liu Pai school, and it did not maintain complete methods of dual cultivation Xing and Ming

Zhao Bi-chen lost the main method MING in practices (like many other Daoist schools)

Without the MING methods not possible to reach stages in alchemy higer a ghost-immortal - Gui Xian ( 鬼仙 ), so impossible perfection in TAO.

 

Ghost-immortal - the immortal among devils or the immortal devil. It was believed that this achievement is a characteristic of shamanic practices, the late Chan Buddhism, the pseudo-Taoism, different meditations. Withdrawal of Yin spirit. The practitioner remains mortal, despite the practice of spirit withdrawal and possible capabilities.

Moreover, he may not be reborn after his death and stay a ghost forever. This was not practiced in Taoism, it was forbidden (meaning the serious study, not just jingzuo).

Edited June 23, 2011 by Golden Path

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Golden Path]

Can you explain the MING from the view of the school of Wu Liu Pai?

Hi Friend, MING -it's yuan qi or primordial qi, the battery in the body.

Since the level yuan qi is directly related with duration of our life, Ming - it's also a life or a destiny.

 

Ming practices - those practices which have a result in filling yuan-jing and primordial qi (create a real dan-tian and next higer stages).

 

Ming is a tangible real substance and it can be felt, given a perfected sensitivity. Ming can be replenished only by mastering the since Taoist alchemy (just to emphasize that, according to the records of our school, some other traditions also posses such an essentially identical method, ). Note that to "Die" in Chinese is written emphatically: 失命 i.e. LOST MING.

[Golden Path]

Open a discussion here:

 

WHY DO PEOPLE DIE? WHAT IS THE ESSENCE OF TAOIST ALCHEMY? XING AND MING

[The Way Is Virtue]

Zhao Bi-chen's school lost the main method MING in practices (like the other Daoist school)

Without the MING methods not possible to reach stages in alchemy higer a ghost-immortal - Gui Xian ( 鬼仙 ), so impossible perfection in TAO.

Ghost-immortal - the immortal among devils or the immortal devil. It was believed that this achievement is a characteristic of shamanic practices, the late Chan Buddhism, the pseudo-Taoism, different meditations. Withdrawal of Yin spirit. The practitioner remains mortal, despite the practice of spirit withdrawal and possible capabilities.

Moreover, he may not be reborn after his death and stay a ghost forever. This was not practiced in Taoism, it was forbidden (meaning the serious study, not just jingzuo).

 

Zhao Bi Chen's method does seem to describe a method that primarily involves cultivating yuan qi (primordial qi). I am curious why you think that the method described in his book does not include the cultivation of yuan qi?

[Golden Path]

Zhao Bi Chen's method does seem to describe a method that primarily involves cultivating yuan qi (primordial qi). I am curious why you think that the method described in his book does not include the cultivation of yuan qi?

Hi The Way Is Virtue, Bi Chen's methods do not have full system to achive the alchemy goals and perfection in Tao.

To write his book he had used basically treatises of our Wuliupai School , that's why the book rather interesting and looks like competent. But the theory without a practice nothing really matter. The pupil must have a mentor or a Teacher who will give him real alchemy practice and will be teach him.

--

Thank you everybody for questions in the "Personal Practice Discussion",

tommorrow I'll answer them.

[The Way Is Virtue]

Hi The Way Is Virtue, Bi Chen's methods do not have full system to achive the alchemy goals and perfection in Tao.

To write his book he had used basically treatises of our Wuliupai School, that's why the book rather interesting and looks like competent. But the theory without a practice nothing really matter. The pupil must have a mentor or a Teacher who will give him real alchemy practice and will be teach him.

 

Hi Golden Path. My point was that your previous statement that Zhao Bi Chen's method does not include the cultivation of yuan qi seems to be quite at odds with what is actually written in his book. The cultivation of yuan qi seems central to Zhao's method. I get the feeling that you may have never actually read Zhao's book but are actually repeating things passed to you from your teacher/tradition?

 

I believe Zhao Bi Chen said he sought out and learned from various teachers, including both Buddhists and Taoists, from what I recall. He also mentioned that he encountered a number of false 'masters' in his search as well. The point being though that according to what he wrote he did learn directly from at least one master who was accomplished in Taoist internal alchemy, in Zhao's opinion anyway. Your implication seems to be that Zhao Bi Chen's book was mainly based on Wu Liu Pai writings and not on Zhao's personal experience, if I understand you correctly, but this seems to be at odds with what Zhao Bi Chen wrote anyway. I of course did not know Zhao Bi Chen so I can't say one way or the other that everything he wrote was really based on his own personal experience and practice.

 

I agree with you that one really needs to learn internal alchemy from an accomplished teacher, however; as most no doubt need the guidance of such a teacher to get on the right track and to stay on the right track. No two people are the same so likely no all encompassing method could ever be described completely in a book. Practice must no doubt be geared and adjusted somewhat to each individual.

Best to you in your practice...

[tccii]

I believe Zhao Bi Chen said he sought out and learned from various teachers, including both Buddhists and Taoists, from what I recall. He also mentioned that he encountered a number of false 'masters' in his search as well.

 

Hi TWIV,

 

I don't want to get in the way of your exchange with GP, but having actually studied Zhao's system from at least two teachers, here is some additional information for your consideration.

 

Zhao Bi Chen (趙避塵, 赵避尘) is famous primarily because he is one of the first practitioners to write a comprehensive book (Xing Ming Fa Jue Ming Zhi, 性命法訣明指, 性命法诀明指) describing in detail the methods and practices of Internal Alchemy. He attempts to describe the practice in relatively plain language, so that your average person (with a teacher) could understand it. It is important to realize, however, that the book is still quite difficult as written words can only go so far to explain this very esoteric practice.

 

Zhao's book was translated intoEnglish as "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy & Immortality" by Charles Luk (Lu Kuan Yu,陸寬昱, 陆宽昱),one of the last of a generation of British trained scholars fluent in both Eastern and Western cultures. It is the most complete, publicly available work on Internal Alchemy in the English language. This is not to say that it provides a complete description of Nei Dan (內丹) nor is it suitable as a practice guide without a teacher.

 

In some regards, Zhao broke with the tradition of secrecy by writing the book. However, it is not believed that he expected someone to learn the practice from the book. Rather he intended the book to be a type of roadmap or check against which a student could measure what he learned from a teacher.Zhao was very much concerned about false teachers, having encountered more than a few, and wanted future students to have a "yardstick."

 

Zhao's system was influenced by several sources. He is considered to have inherited the essence of the Longmen Pai Nei Dan (Bei Zhong, Northern School). He was also influenced by the Wu Liu Pai (itself a Buddhist/Taoist synthesis), Chan Buddhism, and the Nan Pai (Nan Zhong, Southern School). It is worthy of note that the Wu Lu Pai was only one source of Zhao's teachings with the Longmen Pai probably being the most influential source. In any case, Zhao's teachings are not, of course, fully described in his book.

Edited June 2, 2011 by tccii

[The Way Is Virtue]

Hi TWIV,

 

I don't want to get in the way of your exchange with GP, but having actually studied Zhao's system from at least two teachers, here is some additional information for your consideration.

 

Zhao Bi Chen (趙避塵, 赵避尘) is famous primarily because he is one of the first practitioners to write a comprehensive book (Xing Ming Fa Jue Ming Zhi, 性命法訣明指, 性命法诀明指) describing in detail the methods and practices of Internal Alchemy. He attempts to describe the practice in relatively plain language, so that your average person (with a teacher) could understand it. It is important to realize, however, that the book is still quite difficult as written words can only go so far to explain this very esoteric practice.

 

Zhao's book was translated intoEnglish as "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy & Immortality" by Charles Luk (Lu Kuan Yu,陸寬昱, 陆宽昱),one of the last of a generation of British trained scholars fluent in both Eastern and Western cultures. It is the most complete, publicly available work on Internal Alchemy in the English language. This is not to say that it provides a complete description of Nei Dan (內丹) nor is it suitable as a practice guide without a teacher.

 

In some regards, Zhao broke with the tradition of secrecy by writing the book. However, it is not believed that he expected someone to learn the practice from the book. Rather he intended the book to be a type of roadmap or check against which a student could measure what he learned from a teacher.Zhao was very much concerned about false teachers, having encountered more than a few, and wanted future students to have a "yardstick."

 

Zhao's system was influenced by several sources. He is considered to have inherited the essence of the Longmen Pai Nei Dan (Bei Zhong, Northern School). He was also influenced by the Wu Liu Pai (itself a Buddhist/Taoist synthesis), Chan Buddhism, and the Nan Pai (Nan Zhong, Southern School). It is worthy of note that the Wu Lu Pai was only one source of Zhao's teachings with the Longmen Pai probably being the most influential source. In any case, Zhao's teachings are not, of course, fully described in his book.

 

Hi tccii! Thanks for the further details about Zhao's tradition. Just to be clear, nowhere did I suggest that Zhao's book describes a complete system, nor have I suggested one could properly practice internal alchemy based just on Zhao's book. However, Zhao's book would seem to be a good reference book for those interested in learning more about internal alchemy practices in general. I actually am also of the opinion that most if not all people need to study this sort of practice under the guidance of an accomplished teacher, if one can find one and the teacher is willing to teach them. I am also quite familiar with Lu Kuan Yu's background as well. I've enjoyed reading several of his books.

Best wishes to you...

Edited June 2, 2011 by The Way Is Virtue

[Golden Path]

Hi tccii! Thank you for the good describing and details about the Zhao Bi Chen and his book!

In any case, he made a big good for development the doctrine of Tao, especially since the book was translated into English, and then actually been one of few sources of Taoist alchemy for the West. That's why it's so popular.

 

But we do not must overestimate meaning this book, you are also noticed:

"This is not to say that it provides a complete description of Nei Dan (內丹) nor is it suitable as a practice guide without a teacher...Rather he intended the book to be a type of roadmap or check against which a student could measure what he learned from a teacher."

 

Also The Way Is Virtue correctly wrote: "...all people need to study this sort of practice under the guidance of an accomplished teacher, if one can find one and the teacher is willing to teach them."

[tccii]

Hi tccii! Thanks for the further details about Zhao's tradition. Just to be clear, nowhere did I suggest that Zhao's book describes a complete system, nor have I suggested one could properly practice internal alchemy based just on Zhao's book.

 

Understood. I wrote that with the general audience in mind, not you specifically.

 

I am also quite familiar with Lu Kuan Yu's background as well. I've enjoyed reading several of his books.

Best wishes to you...

 

I'd be interested in learning more about Lu's background if you have time or could point me to a source. His "Chan and Zen" series is quite well done. It is interesting to note that in the case of Chan, he thought people would be better off with his books than with a poor teacher. His series is so well written that I could almost agree.

[tccii]

Hi tccii! Thank you for the good describing and details about the Zhao Bi Chen and his book!

In any case, he made a big good for development the doctrine of Tao, especially since the book was translated into English, and then actually been one of few sources of Taoist alchemy for the West. That's why it's so popular.

 

But we do not must overestimate meaning this book, you are also noticed:

"This is not to say that it provides a complete description of Nei Dan (內丹) nor is it suitable as a practice guide without a teacher...Rather he intended the book to be a type of roadmap or check against which a student could measure what he learned from a teacher."

 

Also The Way Is Virtue correctly wrote: "...all people need to study this sort of practice under the guidance of an accomplished teacher, if one can find one and the teacher is willing to teach them."

 

Hi GP,

 

Thanks for your comments. I think we all agree that a teacher is required.

 

It would also be better if we could show restraint in our criticism of the various schools of cultivation. This is especially true if we haven't actually studied their methods. Regardless of their strengths or weaknesses they exist because they helped someone at some point. The Buddhist say there are 84,000 expedient methods. Why? Because there are so many different types of people in the world.

 

It is rare enough to meet actual practitioners in person, let alone online. Let's not follow the path of our martial relatives and end up with endless school/lineage wars.

[Golden Path]

Hi GP,

 

Thanks for your comments. I think we all agree that a teacher is required.

 

It would also be better if we could show restraint in our criticism of the various schools of cultivation. This is especially true if we haven't actually studied their methods.

Hi tccii , you are right: "especially true if we haven't actually studied their methods."

I just said what told my teachers only (when was question about it) , they know this, because Zhao's teachings -a late branch from the Wu Liu Pai school.

Develop this question in the further or to argue about this absolutely not going.

 

Regardless of their strengths or weaknesses they exist because they helped someone at some point. The Buddhist say there are 84,000 expedient methods. Why? Because there are so many different types of people in the world.

My teacher wrote:

... there are several thousands of such methods in Taoism and the ancient sages spoke of them as : “任他三千六百旁门九十六种外道法力变幻总于存理养炁 尽性了命之大道不同 – «The effectiveness of all other 3600 minor schools and 96 types of external ways is illusory, and they are absolutely not identical with the Great Tao, which contains the principles of nurturing of pre-heaven qi, the fulfillment of nature (Xing) and completion of destiny (Ming)”) have no access to the primordial energies of the body, also those methods are quite difficult and require a lot of time for everyday practice. The effect of such exercises is unstable and requires the regular maintenance and in case of even brief breaking off the result disappears fast.

More details of this basic difference between the true Taoist schools and their widespread imitations you may find in the “Wuzhen pian ( 悟真篇) ” tractate – «The chapters of insight in the Truth» of Zhang Boduan .

Edited June 2, 2011 by Golden Path

[The Way Is Virtue]

I'd be interested in learning more about Lu's background if you have time or could point me to a source. His "Chan and Zen" series is quite well done. It is interesting to note that in the case of Chan, he thought people would be better off with his books than with a poor teacher. His series is so well written that I could almost agree.

 

Hi tccii. I am just familiar with the descriptions of him from his books and from what little else

he revealed about himself in his comments in his books. He seemed to me like a very sincere person

and very dedicated to helping preserve Buddhist and some other Chinese cultivation teachings.

 

Here's a couple of blurbs on him for any who may not be familiar with him:

 

Luk, Charles, (Upasaka Lu Kuan Yu: 1898-1978): Translator and Writer

on Ch'an. Born in Canton, studied with Hutuktu (Tulku) of Sinjiang

(a Vajrayana teacher of both Kagya and Gelug lineages) and master

Hsu Yun, who urged him to translate Chinese Buddhist texts.

Dedicated the last 20 yrs of his life (from 1956) to this cause.

Lived in exile in Hong Kong, maintaining a worldwide correspondance.

First visited Europe in the 1930's - visited London and met Christmas

Humphreys in 1935.'

(The Buddhist Handbook).

 

Born in Canton in 1898 and died in 1978. His first Master was Hutuktu

of Sinkiang -an enlightened Great Lama. His second Master was the

Venerable Ch'an Master Hsu Yun, the best-known modern Ch'an Master.

Throughout his life Lu K'uan Yu contributed to Buddhist publications

in India, London, Paris, and New York, for he passionately devoted his

life to presenting Chinese Buddhist texts to Westerners because he

wanted to preserve Buddhism.

From "Ch'an and Zen Teaching

 

There is a list of his books here:

http://hsuyun.budismo.net/en/luk.html

 

A notable Western student of Lu Kuan Yu was Richard Hunn, who is also now passed away.

 

Best...

[Golden Path]

About the Wu Liu Pai school:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/18779-the-great-tao-golden-elixir-school-of-wu-chung-xu-liu-hua-yang/

Edited June 2, 2011 by Golden Path

[tccii]

Hi tccii. I am just familiar with the descriptions of him from his books and from what little else

he revealed about himself in his comments in his books. He seemed to me like a very sincere person

and very dedicated to helping preserve Buddhist and some other Chinese cultivation teachings.

 

...

There is a list of his books here:

http://hsuyun.budismo.net/en/luk.html

 

A notable Western student of Lu Kuan Yu was Richard Hunn, who is also now passed away.

 

Best...

 

 

Hi TWIV. Thank you for the link to the site with more information about one of his teachers and his publications. It is a shame that very few of his books are still in print. As I mentioned previously, his scholarship was impressive.

 

As a general note to those who are interested: I would strongly recommend his three part series on Chan and Zen teachings, if you can find it. Even if you are mostly interested in Taoism, there is still quite a bit to be learned about cultivating the Xing (Essential Nature) from Chan. Actually, given the overall quality of his work, I would not hesitate to pick up any of his books if I found them.

Edited June 3, 2011 by tccii

[Golden Path]

You can read our articles and discussion of them:

 

MEDITATION AS A METHOD OF ENLIGHTENMENT - Delusions about methods of meditations

 

LEVELS OF ACHIEVEMENTS IN TAOIST ALCHEMY - Stages of perfections in the TAO with images

 

WHY DO PEOPLE DIE? WHAT IS THE ESSENCE OF TAOIST ALCHEMY? - XING AND MING. FUSION OF SOUL XING WITH ENERGY MING

Edited June 23, 2011 by Golden Path

[Taomeow]

[Golden Path]

Thank you, GP.

 

Just two quick notes:

 

Longmen Pai tradition does not hold that this pertains to shamanic practices, and in fact uses some (though none are currently transmitted to the general public), and

 

Lu Dongbin (Ancestor Lu), the original source of the above understanding, does not mention shamanic practices among the ones that seek to eliminate yin spirit and consequently result in gui-xian developments. He does mention buddhist practices though.

Hi Taomeow, please explain your point of view.

Exactly Lu Dongbin mentioned about shamanic practices and withdrawal of Yin spirit as the result.

Dialogue between two Immortals, located in a part Daotszan "洞真".

Treatise 钟 吕传 道 集- "The collection of Quan Zhongli and Lu Dongbin about the transfer of the Tao"

 

Zhongli Quan said: "If people want to avoid endless rebirths, not born into the lower bodies, to test on their own experience that there will be no disease, old age, a grief and death, they should rely on Heaven and Earth, embracing yin and yang and implement a human . People should not become ghosts (gui-xian), but as a human being they should improve in the immortality , becoming Immortal to rise to Heaven!..."

©Full translation I'm preparing only (but I did not know if this treatise translated in English already)

[Taomeow]

Hi Taomeow, please explain your point of view.(...)

©Full translation I'm preparing only (but I did not know if this treatise translated in English already)

 

I have The Teachings of Immortals Chung and Lu translated by Eva Wong, which is where I came across this passage:

 

"Lu asked:

'How do people become ghost immortals? What kind of methods did they practice when they were alive?'

Chung said:

'People become ghost immortals when they try to cultivate but do not understand the Tao. Wanting to make fast progress, they take shortcuts in their training. As a result, their bodies are as brittle as dry wood and their minds are as dead as cold ashes. Hoping to keep the spirit within, they hold on to their intention. Thus, when they enter stillness, only the yin spirit is liberated. As a result, they become ghosts with no spirit; they cannot become immortals of pure yang. Because the yin spirit does not dissipate after they die, they are called ghost immortals. Although these beings are classed as immortals, they are really ghosts with no substance. Practitioners who claim to be Buddhist and who practice incorrectly the techniques of quiet sitting usually end up as this type of immortal.' "

 

And so on -- he explains several more classes of immortals, to wit, human immortals, earth immortals, spirit immortals, and celestial immortals, and practices that lead to each state. Shamanic practices are not mentioned specifically at all, but my own comparative studies lead me to believe that there's different classes of shamans and there is some overlapping that might correspond to human, earth, spirit, or celestial immortals, with earth immortals being perhaps the most prevalent class of beings among the fully traditional (not bogus and not pop) shamans.

 

It is very common for a shaman to transmit his or her spirit to the successor in its entirety -- either a family member selected for the path or a trained apprentice. Thus, some shamans not only have full choice in the matter of reincarnating their spirit or not, but deliberately control where it will go after the body dies. That's the skill of an "immortal with substance," not a ghost immortal. For a lively example of a modern day Siberian shaman transferring his spirit to his chosen successor upon his death, read "Entering the Circle," a book by a Russian psychiatrist working at a psychiatric hospital in Siberia at the time, who ran across this peculiar case in her practice. (An old shaman from a remote village decided to die and transfer his spirit to his nephew. The young man had no prior exposure to anything of this nature, being a very ordinary city guy, and at first became convinced that he was going crazy, which is why he consulted the psychiatrist. Only when the spirit of the shaman uncle takes root and explains to him exactly what happened and all the why's and wherefore's, the young man becomes, um, instantly enlightened, and proceeds to explain to the psychiatrist that he IS that same shaman now -- with full sanity and full ability at that. It's a fun read, and pretty accurate as to how these things can unfold today.)

[exorcist_1699]

I get a photo of Zhao as below ; I wish he would not blame me for posting his as he is still somewhere wandering in this world :

Edited June 24, 2011 by exorcist_1699

[Golden Path]

I get a photo of Zhao as below ; I wish he would not blame me for posting his as he is still somewhere wandering in this world :

Yes, we can see a gray ...by appearance there is much to say about achievement in the alchemy ...

[Golden Path]

I have The Teachings of Immortals Chung and Lu translated by Eva Wong, which is where I came across this passage:

Hi Taomeow, here is our version

Lui Dongbin asked: When people die, they become ghosts (a devil, a ghost), when they complete the Tao - become immortals. But an immortal is a concept, how does becoming immortal help to reach the heaven?

 

Zhongli Quan said: If people want to avoid the endless rebirths, not to born in the lower bodies, to experience for themselves that there could be no diseases, old age, death and misery, then they should rely on heaven and earth, resting upon yin embrace yang and fulfill humanity. People should not become the ghosts, but being a man they should perfect immortality, and become immortal to reach Heaven!

 

Zhongli Quan said: The immortal is not a one concept. Pure yin without yang is a ghost, pure yang without yin is an immortal. The blend of yin and yang - a man. Only man can become a ghost or immortal (i.e. die or reach the immortality). If a man does not perfect since the youth, indulges passions and the desires, then sickness and death will come, and a transformation into a ghost will occur. The man who understands this and perfects, will overcome the profane, and penetrate into the sacred, reach true Liberation - this is immortal. The immortals are divided into 5 types, the methods - into 3 completions; the perfection depends on the person and the result of it depends on his fate.

 

Lui Dongbin asked: What is "the methods are divided into 3 completions and the immortals into 5 types? "

 

Zhongli Quan said: The methods are divided into 3 completions. There are small, medium and great completions. The immortals are divided into 5 types. There are:

 

Ghost immortal.Human immortal.Earth immortal.Spiritual Immortal.Heavenly immortal.

 

All of they are immortals. Ghost immortal is inseparable from the ghosts. Human immortal does not leave the people. Earth immortal does not leave the Earth. Spiritual immortal does not leave the spirits. Heavenly immortal does not leave the heaven. "

 

Lui Dongbin asked: Who is a ghost immortal?

 

Zhongli Quan answered: This is the lowest of the five immortals. They become free among yin (i.e. after death) ... last name is not recorded into the records to the world of ghosts, the name is not recorded in the worlds of the immortals. Although he is not included in samsara, but can’t return to the realms of the immortals, he will never have place where he can come back, he just stops his rebirths.

 

Lui Dongbin asked: This is a ghost immortal. What is his art, what are the methods used to achieve this?

 

Zhongli Quan answered: At the beginning people who try to perfect themselves do not understand the Great Tao and seek quick result. Their body is like a dried tree, the heart is like cold ashes. They keep inside the spirit and the mind and do not disperse the intention. In the immobility the spirit of Yin goes out of the body, this is a ghost, It has nothing to do with pure yang of immortals. Because of his single intention and lack of dispersing of yin soul this is called a ghost immortal. Although people say "immortal", but in fact it is a ghost.

http://www.all-dao.com/ghost-immortal.html

 

Shamanic practices are not mentioned specifically at all

Shamanic practices - it is usually the work of Yin-sheng. It can be strong, but nevertheless does not reach the level of Earth immortal (and I think even Human immortal). But here we must keep in mind that different goals in the shamanic practices and in alchemy .

Edited June 25, 2011 by Golden Path

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

I just read Taoist Yoga recently and having listened to your conversation, I was wondering what your thoughts on out-of-body experiences or astral projections in relation to this topic. Specifically, I practice the methods of Robert Bruce and Robert Monroe to initiate a projection into the six realms. Would you say that what is being generated through this practice is the ghost immortal? And if so, will this practice make it more difficult or impossible for me to later attempt to do alchemy? Any advice would be appreciated. Unfortunately, I do not access to a teacher where I currently live.