Be as ONE person...find your conflicting aspects. Focus your energy.

[InfinityTruth]

I realized today, while I was in conflict with my mind that there were two aspects of myself fighting over myself.

 

One aspect of me wanted to be loving and kind. The other aspect of myself wanted to punish and hurt.

 

I couldn't figure out why I felt like I was suffocating, when these types of things arise in me. This has been an ongoing problem where parts of me want to be nice to me, and the other parts of me want to slaughter myself any way it can.

 

Anyway, I realized that I need to just be ONE aspect instead of two or more going to war.

 

Well, I went with the loving way (The best I could) and I instantly tamed down the war going on in my mind. It progressively died down after that fairly quickly.

 

 

It made me realize that in school(Actually from the moment we're born) we're taught all this stuff that often conflicts with our real selves. By the time we're in high school we've had so much conditioning, that oftentimes we find our real self at war with our conditioning.

[Jetsun]

"Man has no individual I. But there are, instead, hundreds and thousands of separate small "I"s, very often entirely unknown to one another, never coming into contact, or, on the contrary, hostile to each other, mutually exclusive and incompatible. Each minute, each moment, man is saying or thinking, "I". And each time his I is different. Just now it was a thought, now it is a desire, now a sensation, now another thought, and so on, endlessly. Man is a plurality. Man's name is legion"

- G. I. Gurdjieff

[Marblehead]

I realized today, while I was in conflict with my mind that there were two aspects of myself fighting over myself.

 

One aspect of me wanted to be loving and kind. The other aspect of myself wanted to punish and hurt.

 

I couldn't figure out why I felt like I was suffocating, when these types of things arise in me. This has been an ongoing problem where parts of me want to be nice to me, and the other parts of me want to slaughter myself any way it can.

 

Anyway, I realized that I need to just be ONE aspect instead of two or more going to war.

 

Well, I went with the loving way (The best I could) and I instantly tamed down the war going on in my mind. It progressively died down after that fairly quickly.

 

 

It made me realize that in school(Actually from the moment we're born) we're taught all this stuff that often conflicts with our real selves. By the time we're in high school we've had so much conditioning, that oftentimes we find our real self at war with our conditioning.

 

 

Your first sentence immediately reminded me of the Native American story I have posted here before but I will mention it again here.

 

A grandfather was sitting with his grandson talking with him about life. The grandfather said, "We each have two wolves living inside us. One is a good wolf and the other is an evil wolf. They are constantly in battle for dominance."

 

The grandson thought for a moment then asked, "Which one wins?"

 

The grandfather replied, "The one we feed."

[Cat Pillar]

Your first sentence immediately reminded me of the Native American story I have posted here before but I will mention it again here.

 

A grandfather was sitting with his grandson talking with him about life. The grandfather said, "We each have two wolves living inside us. One is a good wolf and the other is an evil wolf. They are constantly in battle for dominance."

 

The grandson thought for a moment then asked, "Which one wins?"

 

The grandfather replied, "The one we feed."

 

I remember you posting that, it's a good story.

 

I just wish it didn't feel like I actually had seven or eight hungry wolves fighting over the bone of focus.

[Marblehead]

 

I just wish it didn't feel like I actually had seven or eight hungry wolves fighting over the bone of focus.

 

Hehehe.

 

I know that experience Oh!, so well.

[doc benway]

It made me realize that in school(Actually from the moment we're born) we're taught all this stuff that often conflicts with our real selves. By the time we're in high school we've had so much conditioning, that oftentimes we find our real self at war with our conditioning.

And we get such mixed messages. We're told, it's not whether you win or lose but how you play the game. We're told winning is not everything. Bullshit!!! How many NBA teams are lauded for winning second place? How many losers are celebrated in media and given advertising contracts? Our society is in love with winning and winning is violence. To win, you must cause someone else to lose. And that is painful. Our society is exceedingly violent and often in very subtle ways. But it gives lip service to non-violence and love. How many "religious" people are truly loving and accepting? Lots of mixed messages create the dichotomy you opened your post with.

[InfinityTruth]

Your first sentence immediately reminded me of the Native American story I have posted here before but I will mention it again here.

 

A grandfather was sitting with his grandson talking with him about life. The grandfather said, "We each have two wolves living inside us. One is a good wolf and the other is an evil wolf. They are constantly in battle for dominance."

 

The grandson thought for a moment then asked, "Which one wins?"

 

The grandfather replied, "The one we feed."

 

I remember you posting that. I understand it a little better now though, then when I first seen it.

[Otis]

Anyway, I realized that I need to just be ONE aspect instead of two or more going to war.

Yes! That is the practice goal that I see as really worthwhile, finding inner unity. The rest, I believe will take care of itself from that.

 

My dad is a professor of the neuropsychology of consciousness. One of his major papers is on the current theory that there are at least 5 separate major structures/pathways in the brain, each which serve as a different form of consciousness. They actually take turns, being in the lead, partially depending upon the need of the moment. In this model, we can see that Multiple Personality Disorder is just an exaggeration of what we already suffer from.

 

One of my favorite internal unity analogies is that of the pup tent. Pup tents are surprisingly robust structures that maintain their shape with little mechanical effort; they're all about balance of forces. However, all you have to do is pull one pole out of place, or rip a seam, and the whole structure buckles and lists to the side. The elegance and power is lost, when unity is lost. So, too, I think our brains were evolved to serve as a self-balancing mechanism of extreme precision and elegance. But, because the ego and language-based areas of the brain have taken precedence, they have thrown the rest of the pup tent out of whack.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Robert S. de Ropp, student of G.I. Gurdjieff and author of The Master Game and Warrior's Way, also wrote a book called Self-Completion, from which I quote:

 

"In their incompleted state human beings thought they were awake when they were really moving about in a state of hypnotized sleep. They thought they had will but they had no real will. They thought they were free but they were really slaves. They thought they had something called "I" but they had no real I, only a multitude of petty selves with different desires and different aims.

In their state of "waking sleep" humans voyaged from birth to death aboard a ship of fools. The captain was asleep, the steersman was drunk and the navigator had forgotten the aim of the voyage. Any fool on board could push the steersman aside and try to steer the ship. The great human agglomerates that called themselves nations were just as much at the mercy of the fools in their midst as were individual men and women. The technological Titanic, modern society, was proceeding full speed ahead into the fog, but there was no one in control. Under these circumstances it would not be surprising if the vessel hit a rock or an iceberg. The surprising thing was that it stayed afloat at all."

 

How many selves do I notice? Many. There's my work-self, my home self, my brother self, my 'awkward teenager self' around attractive women self, my sexual self, my warrior self, my fool self. Have you ever experienced 'road rage' and almost done something that later you were really glad you didn't? Who was that directing things before you came back to some more usual version of 'you'? Ever been tongue-tied around an attractive member of the opposite sex? "Where did that come from?" you may wonder afterwards.

 

Unity of self only comes with awareness and ability to observe one's self dispassionately. It comes from many years of cultivating and working on one's self. It comes with mindfull living in the present moment.

 

Many people, especially those on a spiritual path delude themselves that they are a single, non-fractured self. I agree with de Ropp. I do live aboard "a ship of fools" that I am becoming aware of. Becoming aware of this is the essential first step in self development.

[leopoldson]

How true! Thanks TheSongofDistantEarth

Cultivation is real and tough work and not endless search of blissful states that give satisfaction to one or a few of the selves that build the anamorphous crowd of what we are in the hypnotized state: only mechanical beings.

Take care,

L.

 

Robert S. de Ropp, student of G.I. Gurdjieff and author of The Master Game and Warrior's Way, also wrote a book called Self-Completion, from which I quote:

 

"In their incompleted state human beings thought they were awake when they were really moving about in a state of hypnotized sleep. They thought they had will but they had no real will. They thought they were free but they were really slaves. They thought they had something called "I" but they had no real I, only a multitude of petty selves with different desires and different aims.

In their state of "waking sleep" humans voyaged from birth to death aboard a ship of fools. The captain was asleep, the steersman was drunk and the navigator had forgotten the aim of the voyage. Any fool on board could push the steersman aside and try to steer the ship. The great human agglomerates that called themselves nations were just as much at the mercy of the fools in their midst as were individual men and women. The technological Titanic, modern society, was proceeding full speed ahead into the fog, but there was no one in control. Under these circumstances it would not be surprising if the vessel hit a rock or an iceberg. The surprising thing was that it stayed afloat at all."

 

How many selves do I notice? Many. There's my work-self, my home self, my brother self, my 'awkward teenager self' around attractive women self, my sexual self, my warrior self, my fool self. Have you ever experienced 'road rage' and almost done something that later you were really glad you didn't? Who was that directing things before you came back to some more usual version of 'you'? Ever been tongue-tied around an attractive member of the opposite sex? "Where did that come from?" you may wonder afterwards.

 

Unity of self only comes with awareness and ability to observe one's self dispassionately. It comes from many years of cultivating and working on one's self. It comes with mindfull living in the present moment.

 

Many people, especially those on a spiritual path delude themselves that they are a single, non-fractured self. I agree with de Ropp. I do live aboard "a ship of fools" that I am becoming aware of. Becoming aware of this is the essential first step in self development.

[Marblehead]

And we get such mixed messages. We're told, it's not whether you win or lose but how you play the game. We're told winning is not everything. Bullshit!!! How many NBA teams are lauded for winning second place? How many losers are celebrated in media and given advertising contracts? Our society is in love with winning and winning is violence. To win, you must cause someone else to lose. And that is painful. Our society is exceedingly violent and often in very subtle ways. But it gives lip service to non-violence and love. How many "religious" people are truly loving and accepting? Lots of mixed messages create the dichotomy you opened your post with.

 

WoW!!! You didn't hold back at all with that post, did you?

 

Hey. Tell it like you see it. If I disagree with you I'll let you know.

[Aetherous]

My dad is a professor of the neuropsychology of consciousness. One of his major papers is on the current theory that there are at least 5 separate major structures/pathways in the brain, each which serve as a different form of consciousness. They actually take turns, being in the lead, partially depending upon the need of the moment.

 

Wow, really interesting. Do you have a link to more info?

 

At least personally when I am feeling conflicted, the only thing that really unites the conflicting aspects of myself is "moving forward". For instance, having a plan and implementing it. Just taking action, with no-mind...simple.

[Marblehead]

I remember you posting that. I understand it a little better now though, then when I first seen it.

 

That caused me a comfortable feeling. Thanks.

[Marblehead]

How true! Thanks TheSongofDistantEarth

 

I second that!

[Edward M]

Keep thine eye single--New Testament.

 

Ed

[Marblehead]

Keep thine eye single--New Testament.

 

Ed

 

(But don't allow thyself to become tunnel visioned.)

 

Marblehead Testament.

[thelerner]

Let me be contrarian.

 

The problem with being peaceful and loving is in the back of your mind you feel wronged and it'll haunt you. No matter what you (one aspect anyway) want, the memory is like a cut that'll leave scar tissue.

 

Sometimes its better to state your truth unemotionally and simply to the person who wronged you, let them have there say, then walk away. It may be ugly but it brings things to the surface and then when you strive for peace and love its being truer to yourself.

 

 

my 2 cents

 

Michael

[Otis]

Wow, really interesting. Do you have a link to more info?

I don't, right off hand. I've been hoping to get my dad to guest-post here, since he knows more about the science of consciousness than anybody else I know. I have his psych paper, but it's almost unreadable, because the jargon is so thick. I'll bug him; see if I can't get a little more info to post.

[Otis]

How many selves do I notice? Many. There's my work-self, my home self, my brother self, my 'awkward teenager self' around attractive women self, my sexual self, my warrior self, my fool self. Have you ever experienced 'road rage' and almost done something that later you were really glad you didn't? Who was that directing things before you came back to some more usual version of 'you'? Ever been tongue-tied around an attractive member of the opposite sex? "Where did that come from?" you may wonder afterwards.

Excellent quote and post, Songs, thank you for that.

 

As I've written here several times before: it is not "I" in my head, so much as it is "we". The trick is: learning to humble the "I", so that the other parts of the "we" can come together and work as a team.

[doc benway]

Interesting to hear the talk of multiple "me's". Not something I've really been aware of or thought about much.

Thanks for that perspective folks.

[Otis]

Sometimes its better to state your truth unemotionally and simply to the person who wronged you, let them have there say, then walk away. It may be ugly but it brings things to the surface and then when you strive for peace and love its being truer to yourself.

Of course, here is it where it gets a little crazy. If indeed, there are several different parts of me, with several different points of view, then how do I "speak my truth"? Because I clearly have several different "truths", each which belongs to a different sub-self.

 

So, my solution in this case is to wait, to let the various parts of me have their say, within the confines of my head. Once I am in a centered place, then I can look over my various potential responses, and figure out which one is the most useful one. That way, I am still speaking a truth, just not necessarily the one that arose first, nor the one with the most emotional weight attached to it.

[Golden Path]

One aspect of me wanted to be loving and kind. The other aspect of myself wanted to punish and hurt.

 

I couldn't figure out why I felt like I was suffocating, when these types of things arise in me. This has been an ongoing problem where parts of me want to be nice to me, and the other parts of me want to slaughter myself any way it can.

Hi InfinityTruth, yes it's two aspects in each human: Хing and Ming.

Xing is your nature, has a relation to your soul

Ming is your destiny, has a relation with you energy level and sordid desires.

In each human, these two streams are fighting whole life.

-

Only Taoist alchemy can solve this problem.

-

[InfinityTruth]

Hi InfinityTruth, yes it's two aspects in each human: Хing and Ming.

Xing is your nature, has a relation to your soul

Ming is your destiny, has a relation with you energy level and sordid desires.

In each human, these two streams are fighting whole life.

-

Only Taoist alchemy can solve this problem.

-

 

Cool. Thanks for the terms.