Tongue on the upper palate

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Tongue on the upper palate.

 

You heard that it is to connect Ren and Du Channel.

 

Also a Quote from here http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-54992.html

 

"..from a postural perspective, touching the tongue (or gently pressing, really) to the roof of the mouth helps to align the spine vertically, because when you activate the muscles that elevate the tongue that way, you inhibit the masseter muscles (jaw clenchers) which synergistically go along with activation of upper traps, scalenes and I think sternocleidomastoid; when these muscles are "off", then the muscles that create a more vertically aligned posture are able to function without impedance; thus, you can more readily get that slight chin tuck which releases tension at the occipital cranial junction (the place where the skull and the spine meet in the neck), which sets up a cascade of events, including shoulder blade dropping (scapular setting), lumbar spine / pelvis in more neutral alignment, hips and feet oriented, etc.;

 

in the taiji "classics", this is what generates "empty the collar / suspend the top" - the whole bit about feeling like you are held by a string at the top of the head;

from a qigong perspective, doing this helps to get that "float" of the cranium on top of the spine, helping one to feel connected through the spine to the pelvis, legs, feet and ground more "directly"

 

this is actually an old PT "trick" that you teach people w/TMJ syndrome to release tension in the jaw, which often is the result of tension further down the biomechanical chain"

 

So this is what is known, but the practical question I ask you readers and practioners

what exactly happens when you use or not use and when you not use and why by experience. And is there a method to connect the Ren and Du without relying on this.

 

Have fun in reflecting on you practise

Q

 

I find that I frequently push the end of my tongue against my upper pallet closer to my two front teeth, just in general for no apparent reason. Not finding or being able to afford a personal instructor (I've also been rather picky) I'm not sure if the Qi Gong way of doing this is more to curl it and touch to the center of the pallet, or to do it the way I have been without thinking about it. What I've read seemed to be referring more to curling the tongue but I'm not sure, since it feels more effective for me the other way. I tend to do things which ever way feels best to me, but it would be nice to know which one is meant in Qi Gong instruction. Can someone please confirm this for me?

[ChiDragon]

Tongue on the upper palate.

 

1. You heard that it is to connect Ren and Du Channel.

 

So this is what is known, but the practical question I ask you readers and practioners

 

2. what exactly happens when you use or not use and when you not use and why by experience. And is there a method to connect the Ren and Du without relying on this.

 

Have fun in reflecting on you practise

Q

 

1. It is a fallacy.

 

2. Lifting up your tongue will keep your saliva flow to keep the inside of the mouth moisten. Otherwise, your mouth will be very dry during breathing practice. Indeed, it has no physical effect to your body whatsoever. The only thing is effecting you is the amount of oxygen that goes into your body.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

 

 

 

Mmmmm, I like this one. Never seen it either.

 

Does anyone know if it's connected to an additional series of movements? It seems like it wouldn't hurt to do this with Five Treasures Qi Gong.

 

Rainbow (ha, I once dated a girl by that name. Her sisters name was Moonbeam ), I saw that you've stopped the tongue posture thing.. that helps with my above query

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Harmonious Emptiness]

 

3.)But I say it has a physical effect on body. I describe it later as I want

"more" about what others perceive.

 

 

Would you mind including in your description the precise positioning -- curled to center or just pushing the front upwards? Thanks.

[ChiDragon]

FYI

1.) The things that was claimed in TCM is a myth to me. I do not believe most of the stuffs as claimed because there is no real scientific explanation for it.

 

2.) Your mouth is closed when you sleep. Don't you have a dry mouth when you woke up...???

 

4.) Here is my take on it...

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Scientific_Explanation_of_Chi_Kung_No_6_The_Art_of_Breathing.html

 

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/scientific-explanation-of-chi-kung-no-11-why-does-it-work

Edited June 2, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Harmonious Emptiness]

 

 

These Elemental tongue positions are described as follows.

 

 

 

Ha ha, no wonder the exact position didn't seem so "set in stone"!

The Metal position is very interesting.

 

 

This explains why I do this all time, lol, and why a dentist once said to me with near disbelief "I've never had a patient with so much saliva before" :lol:

 

 

This helps a lot!

[ChiDragon]

Well Qigong is not "just" breathing. If things are so easy people would not discuss

the styles for years in this forum. Stillness Movement Neikung, Longmenpai, Water Path,WuliuPai, Celestial Qigong, Yi Gong, Flying Phoenix Qigong, Shaolin Whanam Qigong, Mo Pai, KAP, Spring Forest Qigong. And well you have medical doctors here in the forum and healers. It is not as easy as it appears.

 

They claim this will do that and that will do this with no real explanation. Any body can do that. If you follow their sayings, it was all about breathing and body movement. Can you derive the commonality from that...??? Do they ever tell you what is going on inside your body besides Chi is flowing in the meridians....???

Edited June 2, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Harmonious Emptiness]

They claim this will do that and that will do this with no real explanation. Any body can do that. If you follow their sayings, it was all about breathing and body movement. Can you derive the commonality from that...??? Do they ever tell you what is going on inside your body besides Chi is flowing in the meridians....???

 

Question: If you don't believe in TCM and Chi, why you call yourself Chi Dragon? You believe in Chi but not meridians, chi flow, energy transferrence, internal power, energetic healing? I mean, that's fine, but your explanation might be a worthwhile read..

[ChiDragon]

Question: If you don't believe in TCM and Chi, why you call yourself Chi Dragon? You believe in Chi but not meridians, chi flow, energy transferrence, internal power, energetic healing? I mean, that's fine, but your explanation might be a worthwhile read..

Thank you. I was hoping somebody might ask me that. To me, "Chi" means air or breath. Chi Kung is an ultimate method of breathing to be cultivated to its perfection.

 

Here is my understanding of the multi-definition of the character of Chi.

1. http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/the_old_myth_about_chi.html

 

2. http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/scientific-explanation-of-chi-kung-no-14-the-definition-of-the-character-chi-in-chi-kung-be

Edited June 3, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Thank you. I was hoping somebody might ask me that. To me, "Chi" means air or breath. Chi Kung is an ultimate method of breathing to be cultivated to its perfection.

 

Here is my understanding of the multi-definition of the character of Chi.

1. http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/the_old_myth_about_chi.html

 

2. http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/scientific-explanation-of-chi-kung-no-14-the-definition-of-the-character-chi-in-chi-kung-be

 

Well, like the article said at the end, we're all free to believe whatever we want, but Western science can't explain why TCM works when it does work either, so I think science, as always, has some catching up to do.

[ChiDragon]

Well, like the article said at the end, we're all free to believe whatever we want, but Western science can't explain why TCM works when it does work either, so I think science, as always, has some catching up to do.

 

Western science can't explain why TCM works when it does work either.....???

It seems like this general statement is a little bit too broad. Can you be more elaborate on that and give me some examples. You see, a lot of people just took the words from the ancients and says OK to them it works. They cant figure it out why it works due to the lack of understanding. The ancient concepts are very macroscopic. However, it can be explained microscopically with the Western science. If one understand both systems, they can be integrated.

 

What do you know about acupuncture...?? I know it works and I did used acupressure myself. I can use the Western science to explain why and how it works. It has to do with the central nervous system. Did you know all the acupuncture points are laid on our nerves. The ancients called them meridians instead of nerves. If you compare the meridian diagrams with the Western anatomic diagrams, you can locate all the acupuncture points on all the nerves in the body.

 

Edited to add:

You know why Chi Kung works for some and not others...??? Some people get headaches and some don't. I am more appreciative about Chi Kung; and it works for me is because I understand how it works and why.

Edited June 3, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Harmonious Emptiness]

 

What do you know about acupuncture...?? I know it works and I did used acupressure myself. I can use the Western science to explain why and how it works. It has to do with the central nervous system. Did you know all the acupuncture points are laid on our nerves. The ancients called them meridians instead of nerves. If you compare the meridian diagrams with the Western anatomic diagrams, you can locate all the acupuncture points on all the nerves in the body.

 

Lol, you were the one that said TCM was a bunch of BS, no? And hasn't Western science identified Chi as bio-electric energy? Has science explained how Qi Gong masters can elevate the temperature in their hands to near boiling?

 

It really makes no difference what science books say, because there are plenty of lesser known examples of shamanic healing that defies all scientific explanation other than "we don't get it so it could only have been coincidence."

 

I'm glad that you are committed to upholding truthful standards, but there's some stuff that doesn't need science to prove it's reality, whether science's "we're always right" super-ego can handle it or not.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[ChiDragon]

Lol, you were the one that said TCM was a bunch of BS, no? And hasn't Western science identified Chi as bio-electric energy? Has science explained how Qi Gong masters can elevate the temperature in their hands to near boiling?

 

 

Do you ever wonder how the Qi Gong masters can elevate the temperature in their hands to near boiling...??? Do you think his physical body has anything to do with that...??? This is beyond my scope of interest for the time being. However, my focus is more practical about practicing Chi Kung and how does it give me a tremendous body strength. To me, it has a lot to do the bio-electric energy.

 

The reason that the Western science hasn't identified Chi as bio-electric energy is because they are too hip about energy and stuck on trying the find the Chi imaginary energy. It is because they only have one definition for Chi is Energy. They don't even know what kind of energy and start looking for it.

 

May I ask you this...?? How much do you know about muscle contraction and the bio-electrical energy, known as adenosine triphosphate(ATP).

[VCraigP]

FYI

1.) The things that was claimed in TCM is a myth to me. I do not believe most of the stuffs as claimed because there is no real scientific explanation for it.

 

ChiDragon

 

I hereby revoke your name.

 

Since TCM concepts are Myth to you then you cannot use the term Chi.

 

Since DRagons are obviously Mythical you certainly cannot use that either.

I suggest you rename your self Mud Monkey

[ChiDragon]

ChiDragon

 

I hereby revoke your name.

 

Since TCM concepts are Myth to you then you cannot use the term Chi.

 

Since DRagons are obviously Mythical you certainly cannot use that either.

I suggest you rename your self Mud Monkey

 

Actually, I understand what the TCM was saying; it was only the way how it was presented that makes me to think it was a myth. If you were really familiar with it, there are lots of contradictions about the functions of internal organs between the west and the east.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Do you ever wonder how the Qi Gong masters can elevate the temperature in their hands to near boiling...??? Do you think his physical body has anything to do with that...??? This is beyond my scope of interest for the time being. However, my focus is more practical about practicing Chi Kung and how does it give me a tremendous body strength. To me, it has a lot to do the bio-electric energy.

 

The reason that the Western science hasn't identified Chi as bio-electric energy is because they are too hip about energy and stuck on trying the find the Chi imaginary energy. It is because they only have one definition for Chi is Energy. They don't even know what kind of energy and start looking for it.

 

May I ask you this...?? How much do you know about muscle contraction and the bio-electrical energy, known as adenosine triphosphate(ATP).

 

Well, really, ATP already exists in my body. I'm not going to achieve the wonders of Qi Gong by studying ATP and there is some chance if I study Qi Gong, so I'm gonna stick with Qi Gong to build ATP or whatever you want to call it, 'cause Qi Gong knows what science only wants to. When science catches up and explains it all, great, whoopdeedoo, give them a pat on the back and let them act like they "discovered" something by following a 5000 year old path, Lol. In the meantime, just 'cause these neophyte scientists don't understand something that's way beyond their frame of analysis doesn't mean it aint true. It just means that they haven't found a way to put a fancy new name on it and create patent royalties for some slobs feeble imitation.

 

CD, I hope this discussion will chill a bit. Remember "when you argue on the internet, it doesn't matter who wins or loses, because only losers argue on the internet." Let's not allow this to turn into an argument. The saying is not directed at you -- I'm sure you fully agree with it. I just don't want to be one of those people

[ChiDragon]

CD, I hope this discussion will chill a bit. Remember "when you argue on the internet, it doesn't matter who wins or loses, because only losers argue on the internet." Let's not allow this to turn into an argument. The saying is not directed at you -- I'm sure you fully agree with it. I just don't want to be one of those people

 

OK, fair enough. I wouldn't treat this as an argument rather then an exchange of ideas. I am sure it was not directed to me. Indeed, I would be a loser if I don't have any justification for my reasoning or not able to tolerate or withstand any adversity.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

OK, fair enough. I wouldn't treat this as an argument rather then an exchange of ideas. I am sure it was not directed to me. Indeed, I would be a loser if I don't have any justification for my reasoning or not able to tolerate or withstand any adversity.

 

Okay, good. In regards to the discussion, I'll really have to just agree to disagree, since you won't be swayed by anything less than empirical evidence, and I won't deny that there is so much that happens, especially in healing, which science is at a total loss to explain or produce similar results.

 

At the same time, it is interesting to know some of the physiological goings on with Qi Gong, in terms of oxygenation of the blood and, you said something about glucose level? I suppose this would be the physical manifestation of Chi circulation (in my unwavering opinion). I saw one of the links you posted earlier.

 

Whachu got about ATP??

 

(you down with ATP? Yeah you know Chi! -- I hope somebody here knows the song )

[ChiDragon]

HE...

I'm glad that I got your attention on ATP and Chi. After all these years of practice of Chi Kung, my muscles had transformed to have fast reflex and gave me a tremendous energy(body strength) to cope with the external chores. One day it got me thinking, people always talking about energy. What is this energy and how was developed inside my body...??? I figured that it has something to do within my body. Then, I bought a book with the title: Understanding Human Structure and Function.

 

I was surprised that in the book which mentioned something about muscle contraction requires a biochemical energy. This biochemical energy was generated by the small granules within each body cell called mitochondria. The biochemical energy was generated by a process called cell respiration. Cell respiration used the oxygen that we breathe to breakdown the glucose to produce water, carbon dioxide, heat and energy(ATP).

 

All the muscle contractions require ATP energy. The muscle of the lungs, heart, and other organs do need ATP to function. Besides, muscle contraction, each body cell needs ATP for part of the generation of its own energy. I had done an intensive research on the ATP and muscle contraction from the Internet. These all added up and supported my theory.

 

Since Chi Kung involves body movements with muscle contraction and breathing oxygen, that leads me to link the cell respiration process together. Hence, I had come to a conclusion it was the large amount of oxygen came from practicing Chi Kung which gives me the tremendous energy.

 

If you study about the heart, you will find out the heart beats on its own as long as oxygen was provided. Therefore, each time when I breathe, I breathe deeply. I know the large amount of oxygen will keep my heart healthy and my blood pressure normal.

 

At this point in time, you can call Chi whatever you want. You may think of it as oxygen or energy since it was energy related.

Edited June 4, 2011 by ChiDragon