when does one deside to let the young figure it out on there own?

[mewtwo]

So i have been conversing with someone via email and they are very stuck in there ways, i have tried guiding them but they are very stuck in there ways. How does one know when to let go and have them learn for themselves?

[Harmonious Emptiness]

So i have been conversing with someone via email and they are very stuck in there ways, i have tried guiding them but they are very stuck in there ways. How does one know when to let go and have them learn for themselves?

 

I like what Deng Ming Dao said in 365 Dao that --

 

when a tree is young, a brace is put on it so that it grows up straight, but if that brace is not removed, the tree will eventually become warped.

 

I'm sure I've repeated that piece of advice to people about a half-dozen times by now.

[Sloppy Zhang]

When you reach a point that it's clear that they aren't listening, and that your time is better spent elsewhere.

 

As you talk to more and more people, you begin to recognize patters of conversation. You start to get a pretty good idea of where the topics are going to go, and how the person is going to respond.

 

When that happens, you say what you need to say, and don't waste your time talking to a wall. If they aren't going to listen, then they aren't going to listen, but that's not to say they won't remember something you said at a later date and then come back to it (one of the reasons I am supremely frustrated by people deleting their own interesting posts!)

[Harmonious Emptiness]

For some reason I thought you were talking about a child there before.

 

It's an interesting puzzle. Maybe a bit more info is needed though.

What is it that they are stuck in their ways about?

 

edit: oh yeah, it was the title. pbbbbbbbb lol.

Edited June 3, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[mewtwo]

vary young in a spiritual sence not age. lol

 

 

They are stuck in there ways from a spiritual perspective, like i email them and they respond back "who are you" i respond back stating who i am. From the tone of there email they are getting very frustrated and say that they would like to know who i am from a spirituual perspective. I then think they meen for me to say that i am part of the divine or something. Well they dont want that eather, they said that i should meditate and ask my self who i am over and over again and the answer will come.

 

They also think i am some sort of snake skin oil seller of spiritual goods.

[Aaron]

I would say you should allow them to figure it out on their own whenever they can.

 

Aaron

[Harmonious Emptiness]

vary young in a spiritual sence not age. lol

 

 

They are stuck in there ways from a spiritual perspective, like i email them and they respond back "who are you" i respond back stating who i am. From the tone of there email they are getting very frustrated and say that they would like to know who i am from a spirituual perspective. I then think they meen for me to say that i am part of the divine or something. Well they dont want that eather, they said that i should meditate and ask my self who i am over and over again and the answer will come.

 

They also think i am some sort of snake skin oil seller of spiritual goods.

 

There's some things I would need to know to justify giving any advice or opinion. I'll understand if you don't want to broadcast though.

 

1) how do you know this person?

2) what is their issue?

3) what do you suggest?

 

Personally, if I see someone is happier to be unhappy, as is not uncommon to internet ranters, I let them be unhappy since that's what they're trying to achieve and I can't do them any better service in trying to ruin their unhappiness

 

I can't really assume to have any answers here without the context, however.

[Otis]

vary young in a spiritual sence not age. lol

 

 

They are stuck in there ways from a spiritual perspective, like i email them and they respond back "who are you" i respond back stating who i am. From the tone of there email they are getting very frustrated and say that they would like to know who i am from a spirituual perspective. I then think they meen for me to say that i am part of the divine or something. Well they dont want that eather, they said that i should meditate and ask my self who i am over and over again and the answer will come.

 

They also think i am some sort of snake skin oil seller of spiritual goods.

By any chance, has this friend watched a lot of Mooji videos? Cuz Mooji does that a lot: "who are you"?

 

The only thing is: it makes sense from Mooji, because he gets it. Does this person "get it"?

 

If this person is taking the tack I'm thinking of, they may be trying to "wake you up".

Edited June 3, 2011 by Otis

[Jetsun]

vary young in a spiritual sence not age. lol

 

 

They are stuck in there ways from a spiritual perspective, like i email them and they respond back "who are you" i respond back stating who i am. From the tone of there email they are getting very frustrated and say that they would like to know who i am from a spirituual perspective. I then think they meen for me to say that i am part of the divine or something. Well they dont want that eather, they said that i should meditate and ask my self who i am over and over again and the answer will come.

 

They also think i am some sort of snake skin oil seller of spiritual goods.

 

It sounds like he is trying to teach you

[mewtwo]

that is what i have given thoguht to also but from the way he writes and such i am not to sure. saying things like firstly and i dont care about what you said. but maby i am wrong or something.

[Otis]

It's a pretty funny posture, two people trying to teach each other, both seeing the other one as asleep.

 

Makes you question the agenda of "waking someone up", when they're trying to do it to you.

[zerostao]

I would say you should allow them to figure it out on their own whenever they can.

 

Aaron

i agree it is good when they can figure it out on their own, even if it may take much longer for them to do so. becoz with self-dicovery one will have a deeper understanding unique for them.

having said that, i am always grateful when someone can put me on the fast track to

understanding specific principles. there are a few on TTB who have generously helped me along.

i have no problem emptying my cup again and again.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

There are some personalities that I've learned to just be "live and let live" towards. Trying to show them the mistake of their overly emotional and overly rational/irrational ways of life will come to no avail but forcing them deeper into their position. Since they have not developed any other mode of action, they would be totally lost and so will fight to the end before they give up the only ground they can stand on.

 

We can't have everyone think like us. There might even be something to learn from this person if they are so different -- they might even provide some balance to your perspective if there's room for further balance. Unfortunately, they're not in a place that is conducive to a positive acceptance of your philosophy so they in their circumstances may even be better to stay with what they know.

 

Think of it like a Western boxer. We know that kung-fu is far more effective, but to get that person to drop boxing and use what little experience they have with kung-fu would result in their defeat.

 

What you need to decide, possibly, is whether you want to continue sparring with a boxer. Maybe you'll learn something you didn't know. On the other hand you might loose what you know if you have to follow their style. Or you may tire of such, comparatively, undeveloped strategy. That is your decision to make

[Jetsun]

It's a pretty funny posture, two people trying to teach each other, both seeing the other one as asleep.

 

Makes you question the agenda of "waking someone up", when they're trying to do it to you.

 

This situation happens all the time from what I can see, people are always trying to teach and instruct other people who they see as needing their help, or doing it "out of compassion".

 

The most powerful teaching I ever had was when I met someone who didn't want to teach me anything, he didn't project anything onto me or expect anything from me, it was quite liberating as just about every other person I met in my entire life either projected something or expected something from me in some sort of subtle way or another.

[Otis]

This situation happens all the time from what I can see, people are always trying to teach and instruct other people who they see as needing their help, or doing it "out of compassion".

 

The most powerful teaching I ever had was when I met someone who didn't want to teach me anything, he didn't project anything onto me or expect anything from me, it was quite liberating as just about every other person I met in my entire life either projected something or expected something from me in some sort of subtle way or another.

It's a good reminder, because I don't enjoy when others assume the superior position, and yet I still have those impulses, myself.

[mYTHmAKER]

sorry

Edited June 4, 2011 by mYTHmAKER

[Owledge]

So i have been conversing with someone via email and they are very stuck in there ways, i have tried guiding them but they are very stuck in there ways. How does one know when to let go and have them learn for themselves?

 

It's a pretty funny posture, two people trying to teach each other, both seeing the other one as asleep.

 

Makes you question the agenda of "waking someone up", when they're trying to do it to you.

 

This situation happens all the time from what I can see, people are always trying to teach and instruct other people who they see as needing their help, or doing it "out of compassion".

 

The most powerful teaching I ever had was when I met someone who didn't want to teach me anything, he didn't project anything onto me or expect anything from me, it was quite liberating as just about every other person I met in my entire life either projected something or expected something from me in some sort of subtle way or another.

 

Here are my thoughts on this, based on my situation:

When looking for help and facing resistance, I sometimes wonder whether I am actually unconsciously fulfilling a kind of higher purpose to teach the other person a lesson, because I don't feel an impulse in the other direction. (But this is just food for throught, not even a real theory.)

 

I think compassion and trying to teach people (solely) based on your standpoint clashes. Especially when someone comes to you for help, maybe even specific help, and you instead try to 'help' that person according to your rules/beliefs, you are not acting out of compassion, but you are actually exploiting a state of emergency in order to gain control over that person, with the intention to perpetuate your belief system.

I have the suspicion that many people in the spiritual community might have a picture of themselves that is much nicer than it actually is.

From my ponderings, I think wisdom has a lot to do with simplicity, with not making things complicated, with getting the job done and then move on, like Lao Tzu says it. Don't involve 'politics'.

Thus, some people who see themselves as healers might merely "do their thing", greatly limiting their potential, while truly compassionate and selfless healers (qualities that are often greatly emphasized in spirituality) will just do what works, adjusting to every case.

 

You can find this wisdom displayed in mundane things. I don't remember it in all detail, but recently I was watching a comedy show where a 13 year old boy was in the hospital and his health didn't really improve and I think he maybe even was about to die. If he had one wish granted before he died, he would want to see real boobs. Funny, obscene, mundane, trivial, foolish, call it what you want, but eventually a female doctor showed him her boobs and shortly after that his vitals improved greatly. A funny metaphor for the power of selflessness.

Edited June 4, 2011 by Hardyg

[ShaktiMama]

So i have been conversing with someone via email and they are very stuck in there ways, i have tried guiding them but they are very stuck in there ways. How does one know when to let go and have them learn for themselves?

 

is he stuck in his ways or are you stuck in your ways? is there a need to win or be right here?

 

our outside world is a projection of our inner world.

[C T]

Hi Jetsun. Your post resonated with me. One of the people closest to me has an innate ability to do just what you wrote about. He is an inspiration to me to do more of the same to others.

 

Simply being present, with the ability to listen attentively...maybe this is all that is needed to inspire another...

to love another...

allowing a grand openness with potent potential for...

...

... ??

 

Much presence to you.

Wow! What a precious connection you have been bestowed with, RV! Good on you!

 

...and Jetsun too!

 

[Owledge]

Another very nice characteristic is when someone's personality doesn't show signs of playing a role, or a game. You know? Even very subtle gestures can hint at an act going on. Some people might like that, might enjoy it because it can be considered funny or distinctive, but personally What I like even more is when the serenity beneath that is showing on the surface.

[Jetsun]

Hi Jetsun. Your post resonated with me. One of the people closest to me has an innate ability to do just what you wrote about. He is an inspiration to me to do more of the same to others.

 

Simply being present, with the ability to listen attentively...maybe this is all that is needed to inspire another...

to love another...

allowing a grand openness with potent potential for...

...

... ??

 

Much presence to you.

 

You are fortunate to have friends like that, what I found when I was going through a rough patch was the most powerful thing a person could do for me was just to be present and listen without them giving me advice, I think being able to do that well with no expectations or projections is the pinnacle of being non violent towards other people, I aspire to be able to be that way some day.