Opening the Kundalini: How?

[ShaktiMama]

I once said this, forgot about it and then saw it quoted by a student on Facebook recently. Some times I have moments of clarity.

 

"What makes the process of understanding easier is to begin with the premise that Kundalini is a cross-cultural phenomenon appearing in major spiritual traditions since ancient times. Using that as a starting point it is easier to see correlations rather than saying that one tradition is correct and the rest are aberrations which happens often, tragically."

[Vajrahridaya]

I once said this, forgot about it and then saw it quoted by a student on Facebook recently. Some times I have moments of clarity.

 

"What makes the process of understanding easier is to begin with the premise that Kundalini is a cross-cultural phenomenon appearing in major spiritual traditions since ancient times. Using that as a starting point it is easier to see correlations rather than saying that one tradition is correct and the rest are aberrations which happens often, tragically."

 

Some traditions due to surrounding concepts do have a more clear approach in my experiential opinion.

 

Such as Buddhism versus the Bushmen.

 

Such as it is with electricity, sure it's an inherent phenomena that arises due to certain causes, but due to technology arising from conceptual formulation, certain way's of channeling and honing that energy are better and more conducive to it reaching a broad spectrum of people than others.

[ShaktiMama]

Some traditions due to surrounding concepts do have a more clear approach in my experiential opinion.

 

Such as Buddhism versus the Bushmen.

 

Such as it is with electricity, sure it's an inherent phenomena that arises due to certain causes, but due to technology arising from conceptual formulation, certain way's of channeling and honing that energy are better and more conducive to it reaching a broad spectrum of people than others.

 

I can speak from personal experience that the Bushman people are intimately acquainted with the phenomenon of Kundlaini. There are no kundalini accidents in the bush according to Brad Keeney who has studied with them and is considered one of their own. One of my senior students who has a mature kundalini development has studied in Africa with the Bushman. Very fascinating to compare their experiences of kundalini with other traditions.

 

There is a lot of playfulness and love in their process.

[Vajrahridaya]

I can speak from personal experience that the Bushman people are intimately acquainted with the phenomenon of Kundlaini. There are no kundalini accidents in the bush according to Brad Keeney who has studied with them and is considered one of their own. One of my senior students who has a mature kundalini development has studied in Africa with the Bushman. Very fascinating to compare their experiences of kundalini with other traditions.

 

There is a lot of playfulness and love in their process.

 

Yet they haven't codified a process with which all beings around the world can use. The goal doesn't seem to be the same in all clarity. Because of this, Bushmen haven't integrated well, due to clinging to old ways and superstition, there is too much subjective idealism in their lineages... thus they have a very high rate of suicide.

 

As a culture, they haven't seen dependent origination, they haven't seen "right view." I'm not talking about individuals that might intuitively, I'm speaking of Bushmen as a larger culture.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Birch]

" haven't integrated well,"

 

"integrated well" into what??

 

Does it matter to you if other cultures find ways of doing stuff that is not from your lineage? Do you think that there might be valid ways of living and dealing with suffering and death elsewhere?

 

You can see by my questions that I indeed do think there might be valid ways of living and dealing with suffering and death elsewhere. I don't know if it matters to you that other people might have other ways of doing it that don't fit with your lineage. On a personal note, if there's one thing I can't stand it's spiritual imperialism :-) Unfortunately, IMO much of Western spirituality is now bankrupt and so people are looking elsewhere. I very much appreciate techniques, do not appreciate dogma:-)

 

I hear Toronto is very cold in the Winter and that many people end up moving to Florida

[Vajrahridaya]

" haven't integrated well,"

 

"integrated well" into what??

 

Does it matter to you if other cultures find ways of doing stuff that is not from your lineage? Do you think that there might be valid ways of living and dealing with suffering and death elsewhere?

 

You can see by my questions that I indeed do think there might be valid ways of living and dealing with suffering and death elsewhere. I don't know if it matters to you that other people might have other ways of doing it that don't fit with your lineage. On a personal note, if there's one thing I can't stand it's spiritual imperialism :-) Unfortunately, IMO much of Western spirituality is now bankrupt and so people are looking elsewhere. I very much appreciate techniques, do not appreciate dogma:-)

 

I hear Toronto is very cold in the Winter and that many people end up moving to Florida

 

You completely missed my point.

 

Without having a good basic understanding of phenomena, that's codified with actual techniques and methods that are flexible, it's hard to make changes and be open to new influence. Like the Aborigines, Bushmen and Native Americans for instance, who just kill themselves, sadly, drink themselves to death, or are forced to completely sell out and become Casino owners. For the most part loosing their old traditions as a culture. Those that have made it through, holding their spiritual head high have had to take on and integrate with new languages including those of Western Theism and Buddhism. I'm not saying they are inherently wrong, they are not. It's just that their techniques, staying mostly in the emotional realm, without a codified language of well defined symbols, will not be carried on or grounded into a future possibility of sharing and integrating with this new blooming world culture.

 

Buddhism, the first well structured spiritual tradition on planet Earth, does not have this problem. I'm just speaking for the positive implications of creating a well structured program that leads to liberation for the sake of future posterity, like the Buddha did. It is a program that is not culturally biased, unless we evolve into brains hooked up to computers, eventually? Even then, Buddhism has the best, more clearly defined conceptual tools as well, responsible for refining world religions through the entire East and Far East. This is just a verifiable fact. Even if you don't like Buddhism and prefer Taosim, Buddhism has influenced many forms of Taoism. As well, if you don't like Buddhism, but like Hinduism, Buddhas clarity and systemization has done the same for Hinduism that math does for building houses.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Harmonious Emptiness]

 

It's just that their techniques, staying mostly in the emotional realm, without a codified language of well defined symbols, will not be carried on or grounded into a future possibility of sharing and integrating with this new blooming world culture.

 

Buddhism, the first well structured spiritual tradition on planet Earth....

 

Man, you obviously know nothing, or next to nothing, about Native American spirituality, nor it's prevalence in "this new blooming world culture." They have symbols all over the place and immensely poetic and beautiful languages. The modern pharmacopia owes about 2/3 of its knowledge to Native Americans (all these helpful chemicals were previously used naturally by Natives before the Europeans even knew they had to bathe to avoid sickness!) The American Constitution, was a copied from the Iriquois, and came to "civilize" the modern world with human rights.

Their knowledge of nature easily rivals that of Taoist shamans, but is even more integrated into the culture as a whole.

 

And Buddhism -- the first structured spiritual tradition on planet Earth?? Ever heard of the Library of Alexandria?

 

edit: which by the way was created by Black Africans (look at any statue inside the temples) evidentially influenced northward from African "Bushmen" religions, then spreading outward with traces in pretty much every religion, especially Kundalini.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Dagon]

Here's a process, up to you what to do with it ^.^

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/17982-how-to-awaken/page__p__252225__fromsearch__1entry252225

[Vajrahridaya]

Man, you obviously know nothing, or next to nothing, about Native American spirituality, nor it's prevalence in "this new blooming world culture." They have symbols all over the place and immensely poetic and beautiful languages. The modern pharmacopia owes about 2/3 of its knowledge to Native Americans (all these helpful chemicals were previously used naturally by Natives before the Europeans even knew they had to bathe to avoid sickness!) The American Constitution, was a copied from the Iriquois, and came to "civilize" the modern world with human rights.

Their knowledge of nature easily rivals that of Taoist shamans, but is even more integrated into the culture as a whole.

 

And Buddhism -- the first structured spiritual tradition on planet Earth?? Ever heard of the Library of Alexandria?

 

 

None of that has to do with a codified tradition for liberation from unconscious recycling.

 

The Library of Alexandria is Post-Buddha. So yes, Buddhism is the first, well defined spiritual tradition on planet Earth. I mean well defined as in, the 4 noble truths, the 8 fold path, the 31 realm cosmology, the 8 jhanas, Abhidhamma, a well systemized definition of the nature of bondage and liberation in spiritual terms. This is all pre-Alexandrian Library which didn't start until around the 300's B.C.

 

I was raised next to a Pueblo reservation with practicing Navaho traditionalists which I visited regularly and I know lots of Native Americans. I have also been to healing ceremonies, as well as Peruvian Peyote Teepee Ceremonies and Ayahuasca Ceremonies. All good stuff, all nice, dealing with Kundalini, but they are without a language that expresses the depth of human potential as the well defined concepts of the Buddhadharma. They neither have the methodology, nor the well grounded symbology, though they are inspiring, nice, and transformative. They don't lead to Jalus or full blown Buddhahood.

 

I have friends who are avid devotees of the Native traditions of Peru as well as North America. I've met and had ceremonies with many Shamans from these traditions and have talked with them in a nice open hearted manor. There is nothing wrong with being inspired by these different historical traditions, but they just don't carry the same depth and refined understanding of phenomena as Buddhadharma.

[Vajrahridaya]

evidentially influenced northward from African "Bushmen" religions, then spreading outward with traces in pretty much every religion, especially Kundalini.

Nice idea, my friends in pro-black power movements would love this idea as erroneous as it is.

 

The Bushmen don't have a religion, they have shamanistic ceremonies and superstitions surrounding them, some of them have metaphors that can be contemplated into clarity if you have the active potential. But, as far as a codified system of clearly defined symbols? No.

 

Buddhism is the first on Earth.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

 

 

The Library of Alexandria is Post-Buddha. So yes, Buddhism is the first, well defined spiritual tradition on planet Earth. I mean well defined as in, the 4 noble truths, the 8 fold path, the 31 realm cosmology, the 8 jhanas, Abhidhamma, a well systemized definition of the nature of bondage and liberation in spiritual terms. This is all pre-Alexandrian Library which didn't start until around the 300's B.C.

 

 

2 books you ought to read: Medicine Cards by Sams and Carson, and Honoring the Medicine, by Kenneth Cohen. The former has a very codified map of life for human behaviour based on animal archetypes (and this is not exclusive to any one tribe), the latter shows the rather structured and consistent philosophies that are part of most tribes. Not to mention an endless number of instructional stories.

 

"Alexandrian Library which didn't start until around the 300's B.C." was a refection of Egyptian mystery schools, probably the most structured spiritual tradition ever, showing up in the 33 degrees of Freemasonry, as well as kundalini, and arguably Taoism, and tracing back to at least 3000 B.C.

 

 

I'm not going to go searching for the reference, but the mother, father, hero structure, plus kundalini traditions existed in African tribes before the Osiris cults in southern Egypt. Though, even if this wasn't a direct correlation, there is still an immense amount to be learned from these cultures if we can only evolve past the our form clinging.

[Vajrahridaya]

2 books you ought to read: Medicine Cards by Sams and Carson, and Honoring the Medicine, by Kenneth Cohen. The former has a very codified map of life for human behaviour based on animal archetypes (and this is not exclusive to any one tribe), the latter shows the rather structured and consistent philosophies that are part of most tribes. Not to mention an endless number of instructional stories.

 

All codified post Buddha. I'm familiar with so many native stories, and like I said they are good and nice, but they don't manifest as well defined a map of the nature of the different levels of Samadhi/Jhana, the mis-steps that can happen, which many of these traditions fall into as the subconscious unravels and all sorts of manifestations become reflected through the sense perceivable world, or psychic world even. There is no clear definition of dependent origination/emptiness, just experiences as excuses for virtue, but not really a deep understanding of the nature of Samsaric cycling. All these traditions reify to an ultimate self standing existence, or a god of some sort, a true Self nature, this is not conducive to the same level of wisdom as the Buddhas teaching.

 

 

 

I'm not going to go searching for the reference, but the mother, father, hero structure, plus kundalini traditions existed in African tribes before the Osiris cults in southern Egypt. Though, even if this wasn't a direct correlation, there is still an immense amount to be learned from these cultures if we can only evolve past the our form clinging.

 

I'm not saying other traditions didn't exist before the Buddha, of course they did, they just didn't clearly define the structure of methodology in a systematic fashion like the Buddha did. There were others post Buddha that did for different traditions. But even Socrates, who I'm a fan of, is post Buddha and didn't come to the same level of depth as the Buddha, but inspiring non-the-less.

 

I agree, they do inspire, and are clarified as to the meaning and source of their arisings from one level or another of the 31 realm model so well defined by Buddha.

 

Read this, since you seem to have an interest in Buddhism... 31 planes of existence

 

The creation stories from these different ancient traditions come from one level or another of these 31 planes and do not add up to the profound truth of dependent origination/emptiness.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

 

"Alexandrian Library which didn't start until around the 300's B.C." was a refection of Egyptian mystery schools, probably the most structured spiritual tradition ever, showing up in the 33 degrees of Freemasonry, as well as kundalini, and arguably Taoism, and tracing back to at least 3000 B.C.

 

 

Sorry, I spoke without memory. I forgot that the Buddha said that he was here "teaching an old path" that was previously lost, so apparently he wasn't the first one to codify a method for liberation on Earth as there was a previous Wheel Turning Buddha as he even mentions.

 

I had also forgotten about the Sumerian texts found that date back to about 3,000 - 2,700 B.C. But, we don't know what they really taught. Though there certainly are lots of theories! If it has anything to do with what's in the Old Testament, that stuff would need some major unpacking and it would have to be taken as abstract metaphors in order to make any kind of sense in the level of Wisdom presented by the Buddha.

 

The Buddha is just the first known person who systematized a definitive method for the sake of liberation from Samsaric recycling. Who knows about pre-history? I've had lucid dreams and meditations of being in Egypt during the building of the first great pyramid, but... I don't want to assume too much from that. Though, I did see a powerful dark skinned man with a coned head, who I towered over in height, but he was ordering me, lovingly through telepathic suggestion to build the structure. A very interesting meditation that was.

 

Yes, all inspiring... just not as clearly defined, that's all.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[ShaktiMama]

Yet they haven't codified a process with which all beings around the world can use. The goal doesn't seem to be the same in all clarity. Because of this, Bushmen haven't integrated well, due to clinging to old ways and superstition, there is too much subjective idealism in their lineages... thus they have a very high rate of suicide.

 

As a culture, they haven't seen dependent origination, they haven't seen "right view." I'm not talking about individuals that might intuitively, I'm speaking of Bushmen as a larger culture.

 

 

Sure they have. The ones who have awakened k grab the unawakened, hug, shake, and dance with them, and pass the kundalini between each other. Quite fun to watch and participate in. Sometimes I love giving Shaktipat that way. It's it not a verbal process but experiential. Old ways and superstition...hmmm...need to look closer to see if it is there. I know my student considers them very wise. Didn't know about the suicide thing.

 

Why is codifying so important? What about those of us who can't grasp that? It makes my brain hurt.

[Vajrahridaya]

Sure they have. The ones who have awakened k grab the unawakened, hug, shake, and dance with them, and pass the kundalini between each other.

 

This type of stuff does not lead to liberation from unconscious rebirth. It's nice and fun though. These are just experiences, if the methods aren't there to maintain enlightened living, it passes. The philosophy and cosmology isn't there, a deep understanding of rebirth and cause and result isn't there, the methodology isn't there, the understanding of the rays and sounds isn't there, or codified at least. It's cool Shamanism, sure there is energy and vibration, emotional healing. But, one needs both sides of the brain to attain liberation.

 

It's sad about the suicide rate for these people. It's the same story as we know with the Native Americans in the US as well as the Aborigines in Australia. High rate of suicide and alcoholism due to the strong influx of Westernized Industrialization.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

Why is codifying so important?

 

Posterity. Part of the Mahayana view is that if it liberates you, it'll help liberate others and is worth sharing.

[goldisheavy]

Why is codifying so important? What about those of us who can't grasp that? It makes my brain hurt.

 

Can't and don't want to are different things.

[manitou]

The really odd thing about kundalini awakening is when it happens spontaneously because the vessel is 'ready'. This happened to both me and my husband in an auto accident. We had both been very tied up with metaphysics, shamanism, and in my case Taoism.....and had been for years.

 

We were parked behind a car at a signal and I watched the fellow behind us in a big truck coming at us, brakes squealing. He hit us just hard enough to not do too much damage to the car, and no injury to us. The oddest thought came to me as I was watching the truck coming at us in the rear-view mirror: "Why am I manifesting this?" At that time, I knew nothing of manifesting from the inside to the outside. It was just an off-the-wall thing my mind said to me.

 

We both became K-active shortly after that. This just tells me that Kundalini is going to find its way one way or the other; whether someone intentionally spends years trying to raise it, or one spends years readying the vessel for a complete electrical surprise...

[ShaktiMama]

Can't and don't want to are different things.

 

 

Difficult to do somethings in that detail of abstraction when one has a learning disability. It is more effective for me to feel the energy around the concept and grok it in that way. Intellectualism and philosophizing does not help. Praxis does.

 

I can feel and explore expansion and nothingness. The descriptions dont do much for my understanding. There is much out there and within that words cannot describe.

[ShaktiMama]

Posterity. Part of the Mahayana view is that if it liberates you, it'll help liberate others and is worth sharing.

 

I understand. Bushmen use oral tradition. When they die out, which is expected in this lifetime, it is gone. Different ways to accomplish things. I see correlations between what they do and gigong practice. Viewpoint is somewhat different.

[Vajrahridaya]

Difficult to do somethings in that detail of abstraction when one has a learning disability. It is more effective for me to feel the energy around the concept and grok it in that way. Intellectualism and philosophizing does not help. Praxis does.

 

I can feel and explore expansion and nothingness. The descriptions dont do much for my understanding. There is much out there and within that words cannot describe.

 

Well, you just described it pretty well there.

[Vajrahridaya]

I understand. Bushmen use oral tradition. When they die out, which is expected in this lifetime, it is gone.

 

Not an occurrence for anything other than compassion.

[ShaktiMama]

This type of stuff does not lead to liberation from unconscious rebirth. It's nice and fun though. These are just experiences, if the methods aren't there to maintain enlightened living, it passes. The philosophy and cosmology isn't there, a deep understanding of rebirth and cause and result isn't there, the methodology isn't there, the understanding of the rays and sounds isn't there, or codified at least. It's cool Shamanism, sure there is energy and vibration, emotional healing. But, one needs both sides of the brain to attain liberation.

 

 

 

I think some of them might disagree with you on the cosmology and methods to maintain rightful living among other things.

 

I think we fail if we attempt to paint this culture with a broad stroke like any culture.

[Vajrahridaya]

 

We were parked behind a car at a signal and I watched the fellow behind us in a big truck coming at us, brakes squealing. He hit us just hard enough to not do too much damage to the car, and no injury to us. The oddest thought came to me as I was watching the truck coming at us in the rear-view mirror: "Why am I manifesting this?" At that time, I knew nothing of manifesting from the inside to the outside. It was just an off-the-wall thing my mind said to me.

 

 

What an interesting story! I remember you sharing this before in a different wording. Thanks for sharing again though.

[Apech]

I think some of them might disagree with you on the cosmology and methods to maintain rightful living among other things.

 

I think we fail if we attempt to paint this culture with a broad stroke like any culture.

 

The world view of Shamanism is a cosmology.

 

In some ways I think it is the failing of Buddhism in that it offers up a formula for liberation. I suspect that ultimately any such formula does not work ... its about praxis as Shaktmama says ... about your own experience and the wisdom it imparts to you ... you cannot formulate three steps to heaven despite Eddie Cochran et al.

 

Sorry I think I was answering Vaj and not you Shaktimama ... ( ).