Opening the Kundalini: How?

[Vajrahridaya]

Hugs to ye buddhists.

For Taoists as well I hope?

[Mandrake]

Heart Drops of Dharmakaya written by... Shardza Tashi Gyaltsen

 

Ok, not free... but...

 

True, and is this all - one book? And it's from the bonpo tradition, which appears - at least lately - to not be very hung up on secrecy and protection.

 

 

Mandrake

[Vajrahridaya]

True, and is this all - one book? And it's from the bonpo tradition, which appears - at least lately - to not be very hung up on secrecy and protection.

 

 

Mandrake

 

Well, the thing is, is that you do need direct guidance in it's application, even if you read the book, it won't help much without any direct guidance from a master, which is how the higher vehicles differ from lower vehicles. You do need that powerful lineage transmission, palpable and visceral.

[Sahaj Nath]

Thanks for sharing your struggles. Clarification request: do you mean "the truth," or "your truth?"

 

don't think it makes much of a diff. it's a flawed term, and you probably didn't want this much of a breakdown, but for clarification:

 

i'm referring to my pursuit of direct experience and understanding, outside of the interpretations or beliefs of any knowledge community. i'm not as interested in teachings as i am in accessing those states from which the teachings were derived, and doing so with little-to-no roadmap, so as not to obscure the naked unfolding with any expectation of what should be encountered.

 

and while i DO study quite a bit and even fall in love with teachers, i don't consume the information as my own personal understanding unless it directly reflects what i have seen or attained or perhaps glimpsed.

 

no real concern with getting to a specific finish line (although i DO actually anticipate that i will awaken in this lifetime, though i have no expectation of what that will look like). i'm far more engaged with the journey itself, and i'm not left depending on other schools or individuals whispering secrets of trivia. the secrets are there for the accessing.

 

for me, THAT'S the pursuit of Truth with a capital T. from your location it is definitely MY truth, but from my location i know it as THE truth.

[Birch]

" don't know the context of this statement, but it appears to fit within my definition of accidental, spontaneous or passive kundalini awakening. While it is actually a very good thing that there are teachers familiar with dealing with this. This is what I define as "damage control." As I said earlier, the reason why this is not the desired path is because without the framework of a deity to control the Shakti, it is chaotic and can be very destructive. So, from what I can tell alot of the modern western Kundalini technique oriented practices, that we have alot of people awakening their Kundalini in this fashion."

 

Right. We have a bunch of people doing it in various 'accidental' ways, as you put it and as a result having folks that can do 'damage control' as you put it is really providing an essential service to people.

 

But is it really 'accidental'? If you believe - as I do - that one wakes oneself up upon choosing to, then one is going to wake up anyway. Practices or no practices. If you reflect on it, doing practices (however badly) is just a clearer signal that one is 'up for it'. Why? Because you are intentionally changing yourself through doing them. You have decided to do something different to how it would roll if you did not.

 

I'd still put myself in the 'accidental' category though And in many respects I'd like to go back to sleep thank you. But apparently I'm screwed. My thanks to damage control teachers and TTB's

[fiveelementtao]

Hi K,

I agree with you that things unfold as karma dictates. So Yes nothing is accidental. That is not how I'm using the word here. I'm using the term "accidental" because it was used by others to describe ways in which Kundalini arises spontaneously which includes trauma and accident. That's how I mean accidental. It is not a judgement. I am fully aware that it may be within one's karma or destiny to have Kundalini awaken spontaneously. Your experience sounded like one of these types of spontaneous awakenings and as you seemed to indicate it was not pleasant. And so, everyone's experience is valid. And everything unflods as it is meant. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't continue to evaluate and continue to study and learn.

 

It seems that everytime I speak on Kundalini people feel the need to defend their experience. That may be my fault because I can come across as overbearing and opinionated. (Which I guess I am). But, I still find it confusing that people seem to NOT want to understand more about Kundalini. Some have even bragged that they they don't know the traditional sources of Kundalini and further don't WANT to know. I don't understand this. How can an expert in anything NOT want to know more about their area of expertise. And then people want to label me as elitist... Anyway, I digress

 

I am saying that there is a definite difference between the effects of spontaneous kundalini Awakenings whether that be through trauma or energy techniques and other more orthodox methods. That's all. And yes every experience is valid. But why not learn other methods that do not have all the crazy side effects? For some they had no choice in the matter. But others who have not had spontaneous kundalini awakenings are seeking it out and can choose how they awaken her...

 

So, K,

I would like to have a discussion about this with you if that is what you want, but I get the feeling that what is really happening is that my statements have been perceived as some kind of attack on your or your teachers and the discussion is really an attempt to validate your experience. If so, I apologize.

Everyone wants to feel validated in their own experiences.

 

So, I am not completely clear if your motivations to engage with me are to defend a perceived attack by me on your experiences or your teachers or if you want to investigate the other aspects to Kundalini that I am bringing up. If your main desire is to defend your experiences and that of your teachers, we won't get very far because every alternative method I bring up will just then be perceived as an attack and we will go in circles saying the same thing to each other...

 

So, I guess if you are wanting to engage in a discussion, let's determine why?

 

To learn more or to defend our own positions?

 

" don't know the context of this statement, but it appears to fit within my definition of accidental, spontaneous or passive kundalini awakening. While it is actually a very good thing that there are teachers familiar with dealing with this. This is what I define as "damage control." As I said earlier, the reason why this is not the desired path is because without the framework of a deity to control the Shakti, it is chaotic and can be very destructive. So, from what I can tell alot of the modern western Kundalini technique oriented practices, that we have alot of people awakening their Kundalini in this fashion."

 

Right. We have a bunch of people doing it in various 'accidental' ways, as you put it and as a result having folks that can do 'damage control' as you put it is really providing an essential service to people.

 

But is it really 'accidental'? If you believe - as I do - that one wakes oneself up upon choosing to, then one is going to wake up anyway. Practices or no practices. If you reflect on it, doing practices (however badly) is just a clearer signal that one is 'up for it'. Why? Because you are intentionally changing yourself through doing them. You have decided to do something different to how it would roll if you did not.

 

I'd still put myself in the 'accidental' category though And in many respects I'd like to go back to sleep thank you. But apparently I'm screwed. My thanks to damage control teachers and TTB's

[Birch]

Hi K,

I agree with you that things unfold as karma dictates. So Yes nothing is accidental. That is not how I'm using the word here. I'm using the term "accidental" because it was used by others to describe ways in which Kundalini arises spontaneously which includes trauma and accident. That's how I mean accidental. It is not a judgement. I am fully aware that it may be within one's karma or destiny to have Kundalini awaken spontaneously. Your experience sounded like one of these types of spontaneous awakenings and as you seemed to indicate it was not pleasant. And so, everyone's experience is valid. And everything unflods as it is meant. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't continue to evaluate and continue to study and learn.

 

It seems that everytime I speak on Kundalini people feel the need to defend their experience. That may be my fault because I can come across as overbearing and opinionated. (Which I guess I am). But, I still find it confusing that people seem to NOT want to understand more about Kundalini. Some have even bragged that they they don't know the traditional sources of Kundalini and further don't WANT to know. I don't understand this. How can an expert in anything NOT want to know more about their area of expertise. And then people want to label me as elitist... Anyway, I digress

 

I am saying that there is a definite difference between the effects of spontaneous kundalini Awakenings whether that be through trauma or energy techniques and other more orthodox methods. That's all. And yes every experience is valid. But why not learn other methods that do not have all the crazy side effects? For some they had no choice in the matter. But others who have not had spontaneous kundalini awakenings are seeking it out and can choose how they awaken her...

 

So, K,

I would like to have a discussion about this with you if that is what you want, but I get the feeling that what is really happening is that my statements have been perceived as some kind of attack on your or your teachers and the discussion is really an attempt to validate your experience. If so, I apologize.

Everyone wants to feel validated in their own experiences.

 

So, I am not completely clear if your motivations to engage with me are to defend a perceived attack by me on your experiences or your teachers or if you want to investigate the other aspects to Kundalini that I am bringing up. If your main desire is to defend your experiences and that of your teachers, we won't get very far because every alternative method I bring up will just then be perceived as an attack and we will go in circles saying the same thing to each other...

 

So, I guess if you are wanting to engage in a discussion, let's determine why?

 

To learn more or to defend our own positions?

 

"I would like to have a discussion about this with you if that is what you want, but I get the feeling that what is really happening is that my statements have been perceived as some kind of attack on your or your teachers and the discussion is really an attempt to validate your experience. If so, I apologize."

 

Um, no. No defense this side. I was quite happy discussing it and was indeed interested in expertise...

And I figure my teachers are big enough to handle whatever gets thrown at them themselves

 

So, if you're interested in posting it on open forum, please do !

[ShaktiMama]

+1

 

often i wish i had your heart, Susan. even as a healer, my passion for Truth exceeds my compassion for suffering. it's a wonder that i'm successful at all. not to say that i am heartless, but i do have a ways to go before i reach your emotional depth.

 

believe me when i say i'm working on it.

 

 

Sometimes speaking the Truth is a kind and compassionate thing to do.

 

[ShaktiMama]

" don't know the context of this statement, but it appears to fit within my definition of accidental, spontaneous or passive kundalini awakening. While it is actually a very good thing that there are teachers familiar with dealing with this. This is what I define as "damage control." As I said earlier, the reason why this is not the desired path is because without the framework of a deity to control the Shakti, it is chaotic and can be very destructive. So, from what I can tell alot of the modern western Kundalini technique oriented practices, that we have alot of people awakening their Kundalini in this fashion."

 

Right. We have a bunch of people doing it in various 'accidental' ways, as you put it and as a result having folks that can do 'damage control' as you put it is really providing an essential service to people.

 

But is it really 'accidental'? If you believe - as I do - that one wakes oneself up upon choosing to, then one is going to wake up anyway. Practices or no practices. If you reflect on it, doing practices (however badly) is just a clearer signal that one is 'up for it'. Why? Because you are intentionally changing yourself through doing them. You have decided to do something different to how it would roll if you did not.

 

I'd still put myself in the 'accidental' category though And in many respects I'd like to go back to sleep thank you. But apparently I'm screwed. My thanks to damage control teachers and TTB's

 

 

the thing that bites about long distance training is that I can't hold your hand when it is good to do so.

 

forget about right technique, right posture, right context blah, blah, blah....a teacher brings comfort when things just aren't going right.

 

[fiveelementtao]

I stand corrected yet again... I've pretty much made my point. I was responding to your questions... No need to repeat myself...

[tulku]

You say:

"They hide the most important spiritual teachings so well that these teachings might as well be non-existent to the general public."

 

Well come on - where are the complete, unobscured, and free explanations of thödgal and tregchod? Not to speak of the rest? What about the family lineages in Sakya? It's good for starters if you don't contradict yourself.

 

The explainations of thogal and trekkod can even be found free on the net if you look hard enough. Nevertheless, there exists enough tibetan centres in almost every country in the world that if you take the time and effort to approach these lamas and work with them, they would teach you these secrets without demanding lots of money like the taoists. The Sakya also teaches their secrets to anyone who is willing to spend time and effort learning from them without demanding financial and other types of tributes.

 

In short, most taoist masters are like robber baron families of the spiritual world. Just look at the Hong Kong Taoist masters. They charge at least a few thousand USD for just one course. I know of one very famous HK Taoist master who charge 5000 USD just for one course on Taoist Talismans. That course is just Level 1 on Taoist Talismans and there are more levels to learn after Level 1. So you can imagine how much money this Taoist Master is raking in.

 

Your opinion of Daoism reeks ignorance and prejudice.

 

And about the "we are best since we have jalus™" - I'm not at all as easily dazzled by this anymore after having the privilege to discuss this with experienced cultivators.

 

I see that you lack the good fortune to learn from the highest cultivators (not neccessarily tibetan) in the world which explains your ignorance in this field. The highest spiritual achievement in any and all traditions is the state of jalus. All the other spiritual and psychic gifts are just distractions and side-trips on one's journey to attaining jalus. Just go ask the highest taoist masters in asia. If they don't even know the value of jalus, then there's no point in even talking to these "experienced" cultivators.

 

So lots of people pay good money to experienced taoist masters like wang liping and they end up with nothing in return. Nothing even remotely approaching Jalus. At least Mantak Chia doesn't charge so much for his books and DVDs unlike other Taoist masters and his works does include the teachings of the state of jalus. Even though there is no scientific proof yet that his system does work but at least it is a beginning and a road-map.

 

But these other taoist masters, they charge so much for their knowledge yet there is no scientific proof that their system works. Where are the hairs and nails of previous Taoist adepts who achieved Jalus? So if there is no evidence, why is anyone foolish enough to spend so much money on unproven systems?

 

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that even John Chang's Mo Pai is not as high as the Tibetan Dzogchen Teachings. Why do I say this? Because Mo Pai has not offered any scientific proof that their previous masters has achieved any spirtual attainments to the level of Jalus. But if any Taoist adepts are willing to prove me wrong by showing me the level of enlightenment which their previous Masters have accomplished, I am always ready to eat humble pie.

Edited June 10, 2011 by tulku

[Dainin]

It sounds like Body of Light has returned from the Himalayas!

[henro]

It sounds like Body of Light has returned from the Himalayas!

 

 

I was just thinking the same thing. Welcome back BOL

[Mandrake]

I was just thinking the same thing. Welcome back BOL

 

Yeah, ttb is so much nicer than the cold altitudes of the Himalayas :-D

[hyok]

 

There is only one way to open Kundalini and it requires the use of a powerful thumb.

 

Only those whose thumbs are worthy can open Kundalini!!! OM.

[Birch]

 

There is only one way to open Kundalini and it requires the use of a powerful thumb.

 

Only those whose thumbs are worthy can open Kundalini!!! OM.

 

opposable thumbs, even

 

Nice nice

 

 

 

I was going to say something stupid about being careful for what one wishes for. But that's just my experience. Sorry.

[Mandrake]

He used to say this all the time in KAP class. He spent a lot of time in Japan studying. He also met quite a few masters in his lifetime. He was a prodigious reader (his library was legendary) but I dont remember where it came from. It may have also been mentioned in one of his books. He has extensive biblios in them. I know he was considered an expert on war and strategy.

 

Santi (vajrasattva) or one of the other of his deshis might now. I will ask around.

 

Another thing I remember him saying was fear was a great awakener of kundalini. It was the adrenaline response that would accelerate the opening. Fortunately, that doesnt seem to be used anymore.

 

But, severe emotional trauma has been known to start the k moving spontaneously.

 

Thanks ShaktiMama. I was itching to hear some sources, so if you get hold of some in the future, I would be happy to be notified!

 

 

Mandrake

[三江源]

IMO, a basic thing that people can do to open their kundalini is to understand a basic principle: Stimulate your wind energy, then go deep as you can into meditation. This creates a higher-than average force, and then gets yourself out of the way of yourself so it can do what it wants to unblock and unlock.

 

For example: 5 minutes Pranayama breathing like dragon fire breath, then 20 minutes stillness meditation.

Or: 30 minutes visualizing orbits, then 30 minutes stillness.

1 hour yoga, 30 minutes sitting or laying.

30 minutes qigong, 30 minutes sitting and forgetting.

1 hour dancing, 1 hour stillness.

 

 

Many people think that if they just do the sizzle, they dont have to bother with the boring old bacon, the stillness.

 

I remember Bodri saying that most instructions on sexual practices leave out the key: you have to go into stillness after you get all stimulated on sex energies(you know, like going deeper and letting your conscious mind slide, and your brea-thing rythym regularize) Most people aparently only do the sex-stimulation bit, but forget the actual meditation, where the energies are allowed to do what they most want to do. If you jump up and do things of normal life the higher-than-average wind force gets blocked off.

 

If you are able to actually sit and do a very good stillness type of meditation for a long period of time, you can also deal with alot of the painful stuff (that so many people are oh so fearful of), that might crop up. You sit through it, a safety valve created by your own self.

 

Is this a magic pill that opens you up immeditately? No, but its a pretty common flaw in how people meditate, and it may take days weeks, months to get the intial energies stronger and blockages cleared out.

 

To the drama queens on this thread, you know people actually will search this thread because there are always people looking to open their kundalini, and they want real techniques.

 

V. useful post, thankyou.

[ShaktiMama]

Thanks ShaktiMama. I was itching to hear some sources, so if you get hold of some in the future, I would be happy to be notified!

 

 

Mandrake

 

I was talking with Santiago about it and he verified it was so. Trying to see if I can find references. Glenn was well traveled and well connected in hidden circles so some of this is oral tradition but I will see if I can get a ref for you.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend