What is Wu Wei...?

[ChiDragon]

LaoTze always talks about Wu Wei in few chapters of the Tao Te Ching. What is Wu Wei mean....??? What is your best understand about Wu Wei...??? Thanks...!!!

Edited June 8, 2011 by ChiDragon

[deci belle]

[stan herman]

LaoTze always talks about Wu Wei in few chapters of the Tao Te Ching. What is Wu Wei mean....??? What is your best understand about Wu Wei...??? Thanks...!!!

 

A minimally esoteric answer:

 

Wu wei is an important concept of the Tao, that involves knowing when to act and when not to act. Wu Wei also means natural action--not forced or deviant--flowing from innate energy. For the individual it would be a normal aspect of his/her behavioral repertoire. It would be 'spontaneous', not analytically deliberated.

 

What is important to recognize however, is that doing the natural thing is not the same for everyone. Just as, while it's natural for snow to fall in Scandinavia, it's natural for it not to fall in Central Africa. And, even while it is natural for snow to fall in Scandinavia, heavier snow falls are more natural in some areas than in others, and heavier snow falls occur naturally in some years than in others. So, it seems to me that when we speak of what is natural we are speaking not of a single, static position, but of a continuum reflecting both situation and time.

 

And we see that what is natural is not a single thing but rather a wide variety of things. What is natural action for human beings also varies widely. In speaking of Wu wei this fact is frequently missed by many commentators. And so when observing human action that is swift, decisive and aggressive they automatically label it as a violation of Wu wei, and it may not be.

[manitou]

Wu-wei, to my understanding, is the result of internalization of the TTC so that we can achieve non-doing. It is an achievement after the internal real self is realized; self-realization, if you will. This is nothing that can be found in a book. This is an inner journey, to get to the point of understanding of non-doing.

 

The same phenomena exists within the Castaneda tradition as well, and probably all other viable traditions. But the attribute of the Sage, which is what we aspire to, is to know ourselves so very well that we are capable of seeing others and other situations very well. After all, we are all One. One goes in through ego (an easy way to do it) and looks for your part in each and every thing that happens in your life. To take responsibility for everything we've said and done, and to make the amends (which tames the ego) to correct the situation. and accepting the fact that we have character defects, and earnestly trying to eliminate them.

 

The non-action part of it is the realization (and Acting on that realization) that the Universe is Love. Or mutual attraction, or the law of positive attraction. That if we 'do nothing' actively to change a dynamic, the highest result will happen on its own. I like to think of it as stopping the juggling act. If we just stop juggling and let all the items fall onto the floor, we can see exactly what we have in front of us. This is one part of wu-wei.

 

Wu-wei is the sorcery part of the Taoist or shamanic tradition. We go to the 'source' (which we realize is really us, after all). We See, if we're capable. That comes after many years of meditation, study, and inner work.

 

I need to practice a type of wu-wei around the house all the time. My other half is a bipolar fellow, sometimes wonderful to live with, sometimes hell. When he is in one of his bipolar snits, I know that trying to fix him or make things better for him only makes it worse. I carry on as if nothing is happening, I speak civilly and kindly to him even when he's being terribly unreasonable, and I just let the Universe take care of him. It always works. I remove my dynamic from the situation, and he ultimately gets through it just fine. Every single thing I do during those periods is not-doing, not judging, being kind, smiling at his insults. I've virtually removed myself from the situation, realizing that what he's manifesting is absolutely necessary for his continued spiritual growth, as strange as that sounds.

 

But in order to not-react in a situation like the above one, I have spent years filing down my own personal 'buttons' so that there are none active for him to push. He is so terribly unreasonable during these periods that a description of some of the things that have happened over the past 28 years would defy belief.

 

Wu-wei is not the same as ignoring a situation. Sure, we can try and ignore situations, but if we haven't done the inner work we won't be able to ignore it for very long; the moment someone sets us off and pushes an old button, there we are acting out our immaturity again, and responding tit for tat. That's the first indication that you are not in a wu-wei state.

 

The inner cultivation is the key here. It turns us into a vacant vessel through which we can manifest the light. And the magic.

[Stigweard]

Boy, you're gonna get to take your pick on the responses! haha!

 

And you have already seen them

 

The "state" of Wei Wu Wei is when the shackles of conceptual fixations of self have been dissolved to allow true sponteity to "flow".

 

So let's forget the overlaying of other ideologies. These are just more conceptual decorations to that which, to be truly Wei Wu Wei, necessitates none of these.

 

[ChiDragon]

Wei Wu Wei

 

It means one is carrying out the concept of Wu Wei.

Edited June 9, 2011 by ChiDragon

[manitou]

So let's forget the overlaying of other ideologies. These are just more conceptual decorations to that which, to be truly Wei Wu Wei, necessitates none of these.

 

 

This is true - Wu-Wei necessitates none of these. But it does help the understanding of another who is asking the question to triangulate the picture from a few different perspectives so that he can see the commonality, recognize it, and internalize it. I sure didn't mean to confuse the issue.

[zerostao]

A minimally esoteric answer:

 

Wu wei is an important concept of the Tao, that involves knowing when to act and when not to act. Wu Wei also means natural action--not forced or deviant--flowing from innate energy. For the individual it would be a normal aspect of his/her behavioral repertoire. It would be 'spontaneous', not analytically deliberated.

 

What is important to recognize however, is that doing the natural thing is not the same for everyone. Just as, while it's natural for snow to fall in Scandinavia, it's natural for it not to fall in Central Africa. And, even while it is natural for snow to fall in Scandinavia, heavier snow falls are more natural in some areas than in others, and heavier snow falls occur naturally in some years than in others. So, it seems to me that when we speak of what is natural we are speaking not of a single, static position, but of a continuum reflecting both situation and time.

 

And we see that what is natural is not a single thing but rather a wide variety of things. What is natural action for human beings also varies widely. In speaking of Wu wei this fact is frequently missed by many commentators. And so when observing human action that is swift, decisive and aggressive they automatically label it as a violation of Wu wei, and it may not be.

excellent

[ChiDragon]

Humans are defining the term Wu Wei is too broad which looses its original TTC meaning.

 

1. Wu wei is an important concept of the Tao,

Yes, it is an important concept of LaoTze, he was the one who define it in the TTC.

 

2. That involves knowing when to act and when not to act.

This was not what the TTC was suggesting. This is on the part of us humans.

 

3. Wu Wei also means natural action--not forced or deviant--flowing from principles of the TTC.

Humans can only follow the natural action as close as possible.

 

4. For the individual it would be a normal aspect of his/her behavioral repertoire. It would be 'spontaneous', not analytically deliberated.

Yes, this is the part by following the principles of the TTC.

 

5. Just as, while it's natural for snow to fall in Scandinavia, it's natural for it not to fall in Central Africa. And, even while it is natural for snow to fall in Scandinavia, heavier snow falls are more natural in some areas than in others, and heavier snow falls occur naturally in some years than in others. So, it seems to me that when we speak of what is natural we are speaking not of a single, static position, but of a continuum reflecting both situation and time.

 

Yes, this is all natural to all because this is all part of Nature. Nature is completely different from human individuals.

 

6. In speaking of Wu wei this fact is frequently missed by many commentators. And so when observing human action that is swift, decisive and aggressive they automatically label it as a violation of Wu wei, and it may not be.

 

This all depends how each individual understand or define Wu Wei and abide by one's own definition.

Edited June 9, 2011 by ChiDragon

[manitou]

I just got a mental image of an old master riding an ox. I know that there is an expression within the Dao context of 'riding the ox'. I never knew what it meant, but I think I do at this moment. The ox is a very slow animal. The master is riding the ox (as opposed to say, a horse) because he is aligning himself with the natural slow passage of time; in essence, Wu-wei. The alignment of our insides with our outsides and with the natural harmony of the dynamics of heaven and earth. It is from this position of riding the ox that we can have perfect vision and be granted the 3 treasures:

 

Love.

Never too much.

Never be the first in the world.

 

Wu-Wei is the internal acceptance of the fact that we manifest from the inside to the outside, that we are in fact the creator. All of us communally. Some know it, some don't. But we're all it, we're all the One. Those who know it consciously must use their knowledge of this without ego, otherwise you get the Hitlers of the world. This is why the inner work is crucial and ego must be tamed to ride the ox. If ego overrides the inner knowledge the performance of wu-wei will be used for unknowledgeable purposes.

Edited June 9, 2011 by manitou

[stan herman]

I just got a mental image of an old master riding an ox. I know that there is an expression within the Dao context of 'riding the ox'. I never knew what it meant, but I think I do at this moment. The ox is a very slow animal. The master is riding the ox (as opposed to say, a horse) because he is aligning himself with the natural slow passage of time; in essence, Wu-wei. The alignment of our insides with our outsides and with the natural harmony of the dynamics of heaven and earth. It is from this position of riding the ox that we can have perfect vision and be granted the 3 treasures:

 

Love.

Never too much.

Never be the first in the world.

 

Wu-Wei is the internal acceptance of the fact that we manifest from the inside to the outside, that we are in fact the creator. All of us communally. Some know it, some don't. But we're all it, we're all the One. Those who know it consciously must use their knowledge of this without ego, otherwise you get the Hitlers of the world. This is why the inner work is crucial and ego must be tamed to ride the ox. If ego overrides the inner knowledge the performance of wu-wei will be used for unknowledgeable purposes.

 

Hmm do we ride Wu wei, or does Wu wei ride us? Is the true sage the master or the ox?

[Stigweard]

Hmm do we ride Wu wei, or does Wu wei ride us? Is the true sage the master or the ox?

 

[Aaron]

This topic was moved to the Taoist Discussion forum because it seemed more appropriate for the Taoist Discussion section. The discussion seems to be more about personal interpretation, rather than how it relates to the Tao Teh Ching and other Easter texts. This isn't a knock against the thread or topic, rather an observation.

 

Aaron

Edited June 10, 2011 by Twinner

[manitou]

Stan, I'd really love to hear your thoughts on your own question.

[doc benway]

My study of Taijiquan has taught me a lot about Wu Wei.

There's a song that includes the phrase: Zhan Nian Lian Sui Bu Diu Ding

Bu Diu Ding means - do not separate and do not go against

Just like I practice this skill in pushing hands and martial training, I can practice these skills in daily life - Wu Wei.

 

Another facet for me of Wu Wei relates to my psychological and emotional life.

Each of us has been heavily conditioned by social and cultural factors and each of us has, deep down, a set of values that define our ethics and moral structure. First, I think it's important that we identify those core values that are most fundamental and important to us. Next, it's important to see if those values are genuine. Are they really a reflection of who we are or are they rules and regulations drilled into us during childhood and in our careers? Are we living the lives we want or puppets of our society? So if we can get in touch with our core values and make sure they are our values and not artificial and insincere, then we can have the opportunity to live in a way that does not separate and does not go against our values. And psychologically, emotionally, that is Wu Wei.

[stan herman]

Humans are defining the term Wu Wei is too broad which looses its original TTC meaning.

 

1. Wu wei is an important concept of the Tao,

Yes, it is an important concept of LaoTze, he was the one who define it in the TTC.

 

2. That involves knowing when to act and when not to act.

This was not what the TTC was suggesting. This is on the part of us humans.

 

3. Wu Wei also means natural action--not forced or deviant--flowing from principles of the TTC.

Humans can only follow the natural action as close as possible.

 

4. For the individual it would be a normal aspect of his/her behavioral repertoire. It would be 'spontaneous', not analytically deliberated.

Yes, this is the part by following the principles of the TTC.

 

5. Just as, while it's natural for snow to fall in Scandinavia, it's natural for it not to fall in Central Africa. And, even while it is natural for snow to fall in Scandinavia, heavier snow falls are more natural in some areas than in others, and heavier snow falls occur naturally in some years than in others. So, it seems to me that when we speak of what is natural we are speaking not of a single, static position, but of a continuum reflecting both situation and time.

 

Yes, this is all natural to all because this is all part of Nature. Nature is completely different from human individuals.

 

6. In speaking of Wu wei this fact is frequently missed by many commentators. And so when observing human action that is swift, decisive and aggressive they automatically label it as a violation of Wu wei, and it may not be.

 

This all depends how each individual understand or define Wu Wei and abide by one's own definition.

 

ChiDragon, do you think if Lao Tzu was writing (or dictating) the Tao in China today he would say the same things the same way?

[ChiDragon]

ChiDragon, do you think if Lao Tzu was writing (or dictating) the Tao in China today he would say the same things the same way?

 

Yes, I would think so. LaoTze's philosophy was so idealistic but too impractical to be carried out. The Tao Te Ching is a piece of stand alone document. So far, no one has the wisdom as same as LaoTze to come up with such a document. Even ZhuangTze, had to borrow his idea about Tao to come up with his own philosophy.

Edited June 10, 2011 by ChiDragon

[manitou]

First, I think it's important that we identify those core values that are most fundamental and important to us. Next, it's important to see if those values are genuine. Are they really a reflection of who we are or are they rules and regulations drilled into us during childhood and in our careers? Are we living the lives we want or puppets of our society? So if we can get in touch with our core values and make sure they are our values and not artificial and insincere, then we can have the opportunity to live in a way that does not separate and does not go against our values. And psychologically, emotionally, that is Wu Wei.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. But the trick is in the inner cultivation. We go backwards, through the years, through the junk that was drummed into us in school and by our poor parents, who were indeed victims of the same lousy conditioning by their parents (or sometimes exactly the opposite because one generation 'learns' from the previous). And ad infinitum. We get down to who we used to be, before all that started. That is the genuine, the uncarved wood. Going backward in time and inspecting important relationships and junctures. It is after that has been done that Wu-Wei can be realized. And this, of course, needs to be joined by left brain 'education' (or more likely, education and then rejection) of our particular structures (paths) for the purpose of understanding.

 

I think Wu-Wei, from a physical point of view, is a joinder of the left brain and the right brain in balance. The inner journey, as it is nearly all emotion, is a left brain exercise which turns into a right brain phenomena if done to the point where emotions are uncovered and cried out; times when the child was previously stifled from crying out the situation at the time, or grieving sufficiently. and then, after the grieving, must come the forgiveness.

 

In order for the Sage to get to the point of alignment where he can See each and every option (because he's not reacting out of ego) this balance must be achieved. A butterfly landing on a bubble, so delicate. when we get to that point, we can choose to become a Witness to the action; to act by non-action. To just stop. Let the chips fall where they may. Find the pattern of love in the chips on the ground, see the way of the Dao.

 

But then the terribly odd thing is that non-action isn't really non-action at all. Somehow it sets things into motion, it sets things right. Maybe it's because the Sage's consciousness is at a higher level and it lends a template to right result, I don't know. But if we remember Who We Really Are (because we've gotten down to it in the inner work) it is more understandable. We, us humans, are in essence The Creator, as all is one. Perhaps a donkey is a creator too, but we are the animals who can find and experience it directly.

 

I'm not sure of the context in which folks on this thread have talked about spontaneous action. Spontaneous action was what I did before I got sober. It was always totally thoughtless, self-oriented, often drunken. Spontaneous action to a Sage must certainly have Love at the base of all his actions, even if the loving thing to do is sometimes the painful thing to do. The Sagely spontaneity is Loving. That's what makes him the Sage. Or the enlightened one.

Edited June 10, 2011 by manitou

[stan herman]

 

 

Really nice -- I like the 10 Bulls a lot. Btw, how do I find out how to post pictures--and while I'm at it what some of the symbols mean?

[stan herman]

Stan, I'd really love to hear your thoughts on your own question.

 

Famine does not stalk the land

The people are content and their bellies full

Who is responsible for this

 

Is it the lord who filled his warehouses with grain

Or is it his wise advisor who saw the need

Or is it the sun who kissed the rice shoots gently

Or the river's water that embraced them

 

Is it the brave soldier who captured the rice bandit Shin

Or the back-bent planters, or the harvesters

Or those who toil in the rice mill until dark night

Or the mothers who cook the porridge every day

 

What of next year

[hyok]

The great thing about the TTC is that it makes a lot of sense on the exterior, as much sense as it makes on the interior. But what is different from the exterior and the interior is the same in how strange and mysterious The Way is for both.

 

Wu-Wei, from my limited understanding and inability to articulate, seems to involve the ability to use our golden light bodies to perform our will, i.e. distance healing and the sort. Some of you may have read Drew Hempel's old posts about seeing Chun Yi Lin's golden light bodies coming out from the top of his head and flying off to wherever to do whatever. I believe Michael Lomax has touched on this subject as well, but I can't recall exactly what his assessment was but I *think* it was along the same lines. Not sure though.

Edited June 10, 2011 by hyok

[manitou]

Famine does not stalk the land

The people are content and their bellies full

Who is responsible for this

 

Is it the lord who filled his warehouses with grain

Or is it his wise advisor who saw the need

Or is it the sun who kissed the rice shoots gently

Or the river's water that embraced them

 

Is it the brave soldier who captured the rice bandit Shin

Or the back-bent planters, or the harvesters

Or those who toil in the rice mill until dark night

Or the mothers who cook the porridge every day

 

What of next year

 

If you're saying all is One, and all seeming opposition is One, then I would certainly agree with you. Are you merely saying there is no difference between the Sage and the ox?

[stan herman]

If you're saying all is One, and all seeming opposition is One, then I would certainly agree with you. Are you merely saying there is no difference between the Sage and the ox?

 

Manitou, if I were a genuine sage, I wouldn't answer that--just leave you wondering But I'm not, so instead I admire you for diggin' at it. Both the sage and the ox are just doin' their things (like the rest of us) and all the 'things' knock and slide against each other and so the world is made--both the parts we like and the parts we don't.

 

What's fascinating (to me at least) is the 'how' they do it--a combination of context and consciousness. The more I learn about that the more my awareness of what's going on among other people (and the laws of physics) increases--expanding my perspectives. And gradually, as I do that, and glimpse the way the Big System (or God, if you like) works--extending my perspectives.

[Marblehead]

Wei Wu Wei

 

Doing without doing.

 

That means, in my understanding, doing what needs be done and that is all, without any alterior purpose.

 

Wu Wei does not mean doing nothing. It means doing nothing if nothing needs be done.

 

And I agree, Wei Wu Wei means living spontaneously.

[manitou]

Manitou, if I were a genuine sage, I wouldn't answer that--just leave you wondering But I'm not, so instead I admire you for diggin' at it. Both the sage and the ox are just doin' their things (like the rest of us) and all the 'things' knock and slide against each other and so the world is made--both the parts we like and the parts we don't.

 

What's fascinating (to me at least) is the 'how' they do it--a combination of context and consciousness. The more I learn about that the more my awareness of what's going on among other people (and the laws of physics) increases--expanding my perspectives. And gradually, as I do that, and glimpse the way the Big System (or God, if you like) works--extending my perspectives.

 

 

Nicely said. Thanks.