doc benway Posted June 24, 2011 This morning I was thinking about another parable: Ch'ui the draftsman Could draw more perfect circles freehand Than with a compass. His fingers brought forth Spontaneous forms from nowhere. His mind Was meanwhile free and without concern With what he was doing. No application was needed His mind was perfectly simple And knew no obstacle. So, when the shoe fits The foot is forgotten, When the belt fits The belly is forgotten, When the heart is right "For" and "against" are forgotten. No drives no compulsions, No needs, no attractions: Then your affairs Are under control. You are a free man. Easy is right. Begin right And you are easy. Continue easy and you are right. The right way to go easy Is to forget the right way And forget that the going is easy. -Chuang Tzu This never gets stale for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otis Posted June 24, 2011 Easy is right. Begin right And you are easy. Continue easy and you are right. The right way to go easy Is to forget the right way And forget that the going is easy. -Chuang Tzu Great share, Steve. This has been my experience as well. When I started breakdancing at age 35, I was not going to "do it right". I didn't even try. I had a life-long bad back, and muscles that tended to go into spasm. Instead, I just got on the floor, and explored what was available, at that moment, to my body. With practice, and my willingness to look foolish, my body found its own way, and a good deal of floorwork is now available to me, without ever trying to learn how it's supposed to be done. (Of course, my interest was never in being a good B-Boy, but in freeing my body, so that helped). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 24, 2011 This never gets stale for me. For me either. Thanks for what you are doing. I have been thinking that after I finish the "Taoist Philosophy" and the "TTC Chapters" that I would see if we can play with some of the Chuang Tzu stories. We'll see. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted July 20, 2011 Just wanted to let Y'all know that I have become very efficient at wu wei-ing. I did absolutely nothing today and I am very proud of that accomplishment. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted July 23, 2011 Just wanted to let Y'all know that I have become very efficient at wu wei-ing. I did absolutely nothing today and I am very proud of that accomplishment. Doing nothing can be very difficult! Especially doing it well... I have a nice t-shirt that reads: It is good to do nothing... And then to rest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted July 23, 2011 Doing nothing can be very difficult! Especially doing it well... I have a nice t-shirt that reads: It is good to do nothing... And then to rest. Hehehe. Yes, we should rest after wu wei-ing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unmike Posted July 24, 2011 As posted in the other current wu wei thread: Using the same words as we are wont to do, the linguistic delicacy necessary to suss out the meaning often evades. Action without acting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted July 24, 2011 Can anyone tell me where this idea that Wu-Wei means to do nothing came from? I'm not boasting, but I've read the Tao Teh Ching for around twenty years now and it wasn't until I got on the internet that I heard that phrase. I still ascribe to the idea that Wu-Wei is about going with the flow, to use a hippy phrase, or as I prefer to explain it, not interfering, letting things take their natural course. I think it can confuse some people on these boards (including me) to describe Wu-Wei as doing nothing, because then we get this idea that the sage pretty much sat down in a chair all day and just watched the world happen around them, when, at least in my opinion, that's not what they did at all. At least lets hope for the sake of the baby in the river that isn't true. Any detailed explanation about why people believe it means to do nothing, would be greatly appreciated. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stigweard Posted July 24, 2011 Can anyone tell me where this idea that Wu-Wei means to do nothing came from? I'm not boasting, but I've read the Tao Teh Ching for around twenty years now and it wasn't until I got on the internet that I heard that phrase. I still ascribe to the idea that Wu-Wei is about going with the flow, to use a hippy phrase, or as I prefer to explain it, not interfering, letting things take their natural course. I think it can confuse some people on these boards (including me) to describe Wu-Wei as doing nothing, because then we get this idea that the sage pretty much sat down in a chair all day and just watched the world happen around them, when, at least in my opinion, that's not what they did at all. At least lets hope for the sake of the baby in the river that isn't true. Any detailed explanation about why people believe it means to do nothing, would be greatly appreciated. Aaron I actually agree with your sentiment and am of a similar mind to you on this one I believe there are a few translations of Laozi ch3 floating around that says "Do nothing and nothing is left undone". Or sometin like that. That's where it has all come from in my observation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harmonious Emptiness Posted July 24, 2011 Can anyone tell me where this idea that Wu-Wei means to do nothing came from? I'm not boasting, but I've read the Tao Teh Ching for around twenty years now and it wasn't until I got on the internet that I heard that phrase. I still ascribe to the idea that Wu-Wei is about going with the flow, to use a hippy phrase, or as I prefer to explain it, not interfering, letting things take their natural course. I think it can confuse some people on these boards (including me) to describe Wu-Wei as doing nothing, because then we get this idea that the sage pretty much sat down in a chair all day and just watched the world happen around them, when, at least in my opinion, that's not what they did at all. At least lets hope for the sake of the baby in the river that isn't true. Any detailed explanation about why people believe it means to do nothing, would be greatly appreciated. Aaron Just a matter of taking the translated term out of all context and trying to understand it. In regards to the baby thing.. Taoist sages were generally healers. Was this against Wu Wei to do something? No. Why? Because they made people well by bringing them back into harmony with the Tao. From this, one could say that Wu Wei is to act in harmony with the Tao, or at least I will... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tragblack Posted July 24, 2011 This morning I was thinking about another parable: Ch'ui the draftsman Could draw more perfect circles freehand Than with a compass. His fingers brought forth Spontaneous forms from nowhere. His mind Was meanwhile free and without concern With what he was doing. No application was needed His mind was perfectly simple And knew no obstacle. So, when the shoe fits The foot is forgotten, When the belt fits The belly is forgotten, When the heart is right "For" and "against" are forgotten. No drives no compulsions, No needs, no attractions: Then your affairs Are under control. You are a free man. Easy is right. Begin right And you are easy. Continue easy and you are right. The right way to go easy Is to forget the right way And forget that the going is easy. -Chuang Tzu This never gets stale for me. I love this, thanks for sharing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted July 24, 2011 Can anyone tell me where this idea that Wu-Wei means to do nothing came from? Yes, I think it is associated with the 'hippie' era. Now, I won't place judgement because it was during this time period that Taoism gained a lot of popularity in the West. However, yes, Wu Wei was misunderstood as to do nothing. That was consistent with the attitude of the people who were wrapped up in the hippie movement. Do drugs and have sex and beg money from your parents or steal the money you needed to be able to do drugs and have sex. That is not wu wei! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 24, 2011 Can anyone tell me where this idea that Wu-Wei means to do nothing came from? I'm not boasting, but I've read the Tao Teh Ching for around twenty years now and it wasn't until I got on the internet that I heard that phrase. I still ascribe to the idea that Wu-Wei is about going with the flow, to use a hippy phrase, or as I prefer to explain it, not interfering, letting things take their natural course. I think it can confuse some people on these boards (including me) to describe Wu-Wei as doing nothing, because then we get this idea that the sage pretty much sat down in a chair all day and just watched the world happen around them, when, at least in my opinion, that's not what they did at all. At least lets hope for the sake of the baby in the river that isn't true. Any detailed explanation about why people believe it means to do nothing, would be greatly appreciated. Aaron Hi, all It's about time someone ask this intelligent question...!!! "Wu Wei" means "doing nothing and accomplish nothing". That is the direction translation from this compound characters 無為. Again, by LaoTze's definition with his stand alone thinking and wisdom, Wu Wei was his patented term, so to speak. LaoTze had written the whole Tao Te Ching based on the concept of Wu Wei. Wu Wei was his philosophy which include all these meanings: 1. Let Nature take its course. 2. Take no abusive action. 3. Do nothing to interrupt or cause harm to Nature. Hence, his idea was always giving us the notion that he was more concern with the negative attributes than the positive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) Hi, all It's about time someone ask this intelligent question...!!! "Wu Wei" means "doing nothing and accomplish nothing". That is the direction translation from this compound characters 無為. Again, by LaoTze's definition with his stand alone thinking and wisdom, Wu Wei was his patented term, so to speak. LaoTze had written the whole Tao Te Ching based on the concept of Wu Wei. Wu Wei was his philosophy which include all these meanings: 1. Let Nature take its course. 2. Take no abusive action. 3. Do nothing to interrupt or cause harm to Nature. Hence, his idea was always giving us the notion that he was more concern with the negative attributes than the positive. Do you think it could be even further narrowed down to emptiness / non-attachement? Wu Wei = emptiness? Edited July 24, 2011 by Informer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 24, 2011 Do you think it could be even further narrowed down to emptiness / non-attachement? Wu Wei = emptiness? The answer to your question is no, not by a Taoist philosophy anyway. "Emptiness" is more like a Buddhist term. By LaoTze's definition of Wu Wei, it has something to do with an nonviolent action. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted July 24, 2011 The answer to your question is no, not by a Taoist philosophy anyway. "Emptiness" is more like a Buddhist term. By LaoTze's definition of Wu Wei, it has something to do with an nonviolent action. What is at the root of violent action? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 24, 2011 What is at the root of violent action? Be the TTC definition, any intention to cause harm to Nature or anybody(mentally or physically) was considered to be a violent action. The emphasis was placed on the intention rather than the action itself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted July 24, 2011 I'm looking for the cause/reasoning for the intent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted July 24, 2011 ... or in the case of Marblehead, just plain lazy... Just kidding brother... I saw that! Hehehe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 24, 2011 I'm looking for the cause/reasoning for the intent. The intent has to be initiated from the mind of an individual for whatever reason. e.g. Let's say that I don't like the line of your questioning. The reason that I am telling you this was intended to offend you. Regardless, you were offended or not, it was the intention that caused me for not being Wu Wei. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 24, 2011 Hehehe. That doesn't matter. I still like what Steve said so I was able to construct "Less to do." ('None to do' wouldn't be valid because there are still things for me to do.) It's OK.... I just want to keep the record straight. So it won't be misleading. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
