Thoughts on the Science Delusion

[Immortal4life]

He makes good points about how All of Nature is an intricate, interconnected, perfect balance, which can not ever be duplicated by artificial science without disastrous results

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59qpfSPI9mM

 

The Dawkins Delusion- lol

[ralis]

I can't believe this is another anti-science rant!

[NeiChuan]

Guy is obviously trolling. Still no ban?

[ralis]

Guy is obviously trolling. Still no ban?

 

He has been coming on here for months with his creationist and anti-science rants.

[Immortal4life]

If you watch the video it is not so much anti-science, but rather, it is about making a more even battlefield between science and spirituality.

 

Like the man explains, a lot of atheists like Dawkins like to take the best of science, and compare it to the worst of religion. They have started to gain a presence in the public circle. This is about making the playing field more even.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Immortal4life

[NeiChuan]

He has been coming on here for months with his creationist and anti-science rants.

 

 

He is obviously just trying to get a rise out of people.

[ralis]

If you watch the video it is not so much anti-science, but rather, it is about making a more even battlefield between science and spirituality.

 

Like the man explains, a lot of atheists like Dawkins like to take the best of science, and compare it to the worst of religion. They have started to gain a presence in the public circle. This is about making the playing field more even.

 

I know how much you want spirituality to be on the same footing as science! However, that can't be allowed to happen. If you have your way, then all technology must have a spiritual function? How do I write that into an equation?

[strawdog65]

I know how much you want spirituality to be on the same footing as science! However, that can't be allowed to happen. If you have your way, then all technology must have a spiritual function? How do I write that into an equation?

 

 

Well said.

[strawdog65]

This is a topic that, too me indicates the slippery slope of what

the closed mindedness of a devoutly religious person believes

is insurmountable when faced with factual evidence contrary

their belief system.

 

The "science Delusion". That is pretty ridiculous.

 

Devout belief in any religious system that precludes what science has proven

to be true, is dangerous at best, and a threat to the very survival of the

world and all it's people, at the worst.

 

There are scientists that proclaim their belief in "god" and say that both

science and god are are somehow mutually exclusive of one another, without there

being any influence on the findings of the scientist's who espouse such belief.

 

I doubt this very sincerely. I can understand there being a scientific explanation

for the belief and nature of a "god"like force in nature, perhaps. But the idea that

there is a "god" observing and dictating what transpires on the speck we call the earth,

is silly and infantile in it's nature.

 

There are many things we are told as children,

do we hang on to them blindly believing them when the contradictions

are all around us? Or do we take the knowledge we gather as adults moving on

and dismissing the fabrication fed to us when we were gullible

enough to actually believe it without question?

 

Scientific understanding of the world we live in, and acceptance that it is "WE"

who are the only ones with the responsibility for what happens in this world

is what's required for us all to grow up, and do what's necessary to keep our

species alive.

 

My own belief is ...There is no "god".

No one is going to save us.

There is no blissful heaven we will go to.

This is it... right here...right now.

This life and all the people you are Loved by, is your gift.

It is up to us to be responsible for this life... now.

 

Science is the acknowledgment that it is through learning and striving to

grow our understanding of everything around us, that we matter and make

a difference beyond the scope of our everyday lives.

[doc benway]

If you watch the video it is not so much anti-science, but rather, it is about making a more even battlefield between science and spirituality.

I hope spirituality wins, then we can return to the good ole' days, huh Immortal4Life?

Your debate is not between science and spirituality, it is between science and Christian dogma - there is a difference...

 

Edited June 12, 2011 by steve f

[ralis]

I hope spirituality wins, then we can return to the good ole' days, huh Immortal4Life?

Your debate is not between science and spirituality, it is between science and Christian dogma - there is a difference...

 

 

Excellent point! He and others of his persuasion would return this world to the Pre-Copernican days.

[Birch]

I hope spirituality wins, then we can return to the good ole' days, huh Immortal4Life?

Your debate is not between science and spirituality, it is between science and Christian dogma - there is a difference...

 

 

 

This is good. Is there any dogma in science? I guess not the method itself - although I suppose there might be ways for it to be hindered/corrupted by dogma? And if so, is there any way to counter it through some changes to method? Maybe not.

[doc benway]

This is good. Is there any dogma in science? I guess not the method itself - although I suppose there might be ways for it to be hindered/corrupted by dogma? And if so, is there any way to counter it through some changes to method? Maybe not.

I think it tends to be people in science who are dogmatic, or create dogmatic environments.

I believe that science, per se, as a method, is constructed in such a way as to eliminate, or at least minimize, dogma.

It's content can be turned into dogma by people.

 

Here's a nice editorial on science and dogma:

http://gadfly.igc.org/eds/science/Science.htm

[Aaron]

He is obviously just trying to get a rise out of people.

 

I never get the sense that he's trying to get a rise out of people, rather people are so opposed to what he has to say that they rise on their own. No need for a ban, if you don't like it, just ignore it.

 

Aaron

[Trunk]

~~~ TheTaoBums Moderation ~~~

 

This topic has been moved to the "Off Topic" section.

 

- Trunk

 

~~~ /out ~~~

[zerostao]

I never get the sense that he's trying to get a rise out of people, rather people are so opposed to what he has to say that they rise on their own. No need for a ban, if you don't like it, just ignore it.

 

Aaron

i agree and his topics do get alot of views and responses. why would there be a ban?

i find them entertaining.

 

didn't he also present some work done by

lawrence krauss??

Edited June 13, 2011 by zerostao

[Marblehead]

If you watch the video it is not so much anti-science, but rather, it is about making a more even battlefield between science and spirituality.

 

 

There is no battle going on between spirituality and science. The battle is between Religion and Science. Most religions contain false doctrine. This is what Science is battling.

 

Science does not accept thoughts and ideas on "faith". The thoughts and ideas are tested over and over again until the contradictions are eliminated. Religions pay no attention to their own contradictions.

 

Spirituality is a totally different concept from religion.

[zerostao]

i think part of the disconnect going on is becoz of extremists on both sides.

there can be a balance. and with a balance (the middle way?) a more useful dialogue can exist.

MH some scientists do act on faith, consider quantum physics and psychology.

science may not accept as theory based on faith or imagination but for sure some of the thoughts and experiements/explorations surely are. some lead to well known hypothesis'

it has been thru intuition or tossing the dice or imagination that some of the breakthroughs in science have come about.

i do agree that there is a difference between organized religion and spirituality.

some food for thought here

http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledge/isbn/item1159361/?site_locale=en_GB

http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledge/isbn/item2713481/?site_locale=en_GB

and this one which i have been longing to get my paws on

http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledge/isbn/item2713707/?site_locale=en_GB

or we can return as suggested earlier in this thread to

http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledge/isbn/item2713707/?site_locale=en_GB

as you well know "NOBODY ever expects the spanish inquisition"

[Immortal4life]

I'm afraid unfortunately there is currently a war between Spirituality and Science.

 

For one thing, you cannot fully divorce Spirituality from Religion. In many cases, Spirituality is the original source of what eventually becomes a religion.

 

Secondly, there is much controversy when it comes to science's views of Spiritual Experiences, Revealed knowledge, or anything along those lines. There is also controversy when it comes to so many things associated with spiritual beliefs, as well as religious beliefs. Ideas like having been reincarnated, how meditation really works, spiritual beings, near death experiences, A Universal Life energy animating the body, using plants or herbs to alter consciousness, are all surrounded in controversy.

 

Religion is just based on faith and blind belief, but Spirituality is based on experiences, raising ones consciousness, principles based on certain views of how the natural world and natural universe works, etc. Science has problems understanding these things, so the real war will never be between religion and science, that war is dying and lost, the real war is Materialistic Science vs. Spiritual Science.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Immortal4life

[Marblehead]

MH some scientists do act on faith, consider quantum physics and psychology.

 

I have no problem with you correcting me on this. I do understand the importance of 'faith' in the life of each and every one of us. It is just that the word "faith" is so often connected with 'religion' and unsupportable beliefs that I need to make a distinction between 'faith' and 'conviction'.

[Marblehead]

I'm afraid unfortunately there is currently a war between Spirituality and Science.

 

Okay. Valid arguement, this one of yours.

 

But I will still suggest that the arguement is a result of misunderstandings rather than anything substantial.

 

There "should" be no conflict between Spirituality and Science. There is no cause for any conflict except for misunderstandings.

[zerostao]

immortal4life, how do you feel about pantheism? i realize it is an "ism"

how do you feel about the writings of Carl Jung?

i just don't see the "war" between science and spiriuality.

i would have to think that religion would be at least just as delusional as science.

John Barrow and Paul Davies, i suggest you look into these guys.

edit> suggested reading

http://www.friesian.com/penrose.htm

 

http://plus.maths.org/content/os/issue18/reviews/book1/index

Edited June 15, 2011 by zerostao