Financial Enlightenment?

[Otis]

I'm finally reading "Rich Dad, Poor Dad", and it's provoking me to face my emotional response to questions and lessons having to do with money.

 

I was definitely born to a "poor dad", and we were taught in very anti-materialist ways. I appreciate the spiritual purpose of my parents' lessons, but what they communicated to us was: that money was bad, which of course left us ignorant of how money works, and could possibly work for us.

 

I have shifted my relationship to money since then, but not much. Philosophically, I see money as a tool, as a source of freedom. But emotionally, I still see money as an enemy. While reading the book, I could feel how strongly my emotions wanted me to reject the author's arguments, even though they made perfect sense, intellectually. Those emotions exhibit my core beliefs about money, which I continue to avoid, to this day.

 

Has anyone in the bums "woken up" to their deepest beliefs about money, and then shifted your relationship, thereby? Has anyone moved from dependence to independence, by letting go of old beliefs about money?

 

If so, what woke you up? How has that process blossomed, and what was the fruit? What advice do you have for others, who are still just trying to face their beliefs about money?

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I enjoyed Rich Dad Poor Dad. There was some obvious zen influence to his attitude and suggestions, imo. Someone was reading it at an old job and lent it to me. It got me into a few similar books which provided a healthier view of money and success.

 

Think And Grow Rich, Nepolian Hill, did the most in destroying fears of the paper devil. Especially mentioning that you can help a lot more people when you're rich than when you're poor. I highly recommend it.

[JohnC]

http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/ - this guys site is great.

 

Simple, not quick fix, but helps to challenge your beliefs and ideas that hold you back.

 

John

[manitou]

One incredible topic, Otis. I happen to live in a part of the country where people talk their religious game and then squish each other to get ahead. As though there is no relationship between "Real Life" (money and job) and Inner Life.

 

What does money represent? Is it power? Is it accumulation from yesterday that is waiting to be used tomorrow? Or is it a balanced way of meeting our needs one day at a time? The balance thing is a lot easier for me to talk about than someone with children who must be raised. There is a certain fear of lack that must certainly accompany child-rearing. If one is obsessed about saving enough money to make sure their 2 year old goes to Harvard, I'm not sure life could ever be in balance.

 

My thinking, and I could be dead wrong, is that somehow Life takes care of us if we stay in balance within the Zone on a daily basis. If we're impeccable with our inner thoughts and don't let the negative and judgmental have sway. If our inners are impeccable, the outers will be too. The only thing I have to back any of this up is that my life has changed significantly in the money department, going from one who worried constantly about not having enough, to one who is relatively comfortable; but the situation seemed to improve as my inner dynamics improved. I don't know how this happens, but it just seems to.

 

I think there's another hocus-pocus thing that happens too. When we develop gratitude for what we HAVE, as opposed to yearning for those things we DON'T HAVE, a new dynamic and subsequent manifestation seems to kick in too. To honor those physical things we do have - to keep our kitchen clean, to keep our lawn mowed, to love those we live with, to be respectful of those we disagree with....this outer manifestation seems to be a direct result of our inner selves. I go through spells where my house will be messier than other times; and whenever I notice this happening, I know there is something within that needs to be addressed. Our outer really does reflect the inner.

 

Perhaps the same is true of money. The outer reflects the inner. Balance with money seems to be the operative principle, if you ask me.

 

Again, a fabulous topic. Bringing all the headiness down to the realm of the here and now. I love it.

[Clarity]

I'm finally reading "Rich Dad, Poor Dad", and it's provoking me to face my emotional response to questions and lessons having to do with money.

 

I was definitely born to a "poor dad", and we were taught in very anti-materialist ways. I appreciate the spiritual purpose of my parents' lessons, but what they communicated to us was: that money was bad, which of course left us ignorant of how money works, and could possibly work for us.

 

I have shifted my relationship to money since then, but not much. Philosophically, I see money as a tool, as a source of freedom. But emotionally, I still see money as an enemy. While reading the book, I could feel how strongly my emotions wanted me to reject the author's arguments, even though they made perfect sense, intellectually. Those emotions exhibit my core beliefs about money, which I continue to avoid, to this day.

 

Has anyone in the bums "woken up" to their deepest beliefs about money, and then shifted your relationship, thereby? Has anyone moved from dependence to independence, by letting go of old beliefs about money?

 

If so, what woke you up? How has that process blossomed, and what was the fruit? What advice do you have for others, who are still just trying to face their beliefs about money?

 

Hi,

 

Another great read is "Your Money or Your Life" by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin. Highly recommended, I read it about 12 years ago and re-read it several times.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Your-Money-Life-Transforming-Relationship/dp/0140286780

 

Money is just an energy. You want to be strong to all aspects of your relationship to money, including earning it, saving it, and spending it.

 

Regards,

 

-Adam

[Otis]

My thinking, and I could be dead wrong, is that somehow Life takes care of us if we stay in balance within the Zone on a daily basis. If we're impeccable with our inner thoughts and don't let the negative and judgmental have sway. If our inners are impeccable, the outers will be too. The only thing I have to back any of this up is that my life has changed significantly in the money department, going from one who worried constantly about not having enough, to one who is relatively comfortable; but the situation seemed to improve as my inner dynamics improved. I don't know how this happens, but it just seems to.

Hi Barb,

 

I know what you're talking about. I also found this to be true. Both my money situation and career surged forward, when I stopped worrying about them, and just joyfully tended to my path.

 

However, for whatever reason, things have shifted. Maybe I became complacent, or started taking it for granted. Maybe the economy has changed too much. Or maybe I just needed to learn a new lesson. I don't know.

 

What the book I'm reading has done for me so far, is to stir up my resistance to even thinking about money. That resistance is a clear signal that there is stuff for me to let go of. In particular, I'm seeing my tendency to "tune out" from money issues, to turn away. If nothing else, I am sure it is important and worthwhile, surrendering those habits.

 

Also, thank you to everyone for your great suggestions and shares. I have bookmarked http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/, and am very impressed with what I've read on it, thus far.

[GreytoWhite]

I highly recommend the following tool.

 

http://www.ynab.com/

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Wonderful thread!

I love it!

I have been struggling with my money and have been thinking that money is evil and so on.

Only recently I started realizing that money was a tool and I could do a lot of work when I have some.

Thanks again!

[johndoe2012]

http://www.gnucash.org/

 

free software and $0.

 

A good site for money matters

 

http://www.thesimpledollar.com/

[gendao]

I was definitely born to a "poor dad", and we were taught in very anti-materialist ways. I appreciate the spiritual purpose of my parents' lessons, but what they communicated to us was: that money was bad, which of course left us ignorant of how money works, and could possibly work for us.

It seems many are dealing with resolving generational issues and breaking vicious family cycles this year...

 

As far as money - I think the healthy attitude is to measure your self-worth by your self, not your financial worth. As long as you are not reliant upon your financial worth for that and view money just as a nice bonus in life - then I think you can enjoy any amount of it without any personal heartburn.

 

Remember, true non-attachment is neither craving nor active rejection. Pushing away is also an attachment, and often a pushback to a subconscious craving. If you really didn't care, then there would be nothing to even resist.

 

So, real non-attachment is a neutral, non-needy, can take-it-or-leave-it mentality... Because you have become self-sufficient and don't need anything. Therefore, anything else gained externally is merely a bonus. Which can then be simply enjoyed and not rejected. But the lack of which is not a loss, either.

Edited June 15, 2011 by vortex

[thelerner]

How does one become self-sufficient? By being skillful.

 

During this financial world crisis, the folks with the most varied mix of skills were the most skillful in staying afloat. If one is only trained in high tech or white collar industries, what happens when they go bust? This is when low tech (or blue collar) skills come in very handy. Being able to garden, do carpentry, fix your own house wiring or plumbing, to teach, to cook, to sew, to heal, to haul, etc. And if one is strongly rooted in a community, a network of others, one can opt to utilize his/her network to the maxx. Skills can be bartered when money is low.

 

Some Suze Orman quotes:

 

"People first, then money, then things"

 

"A big part of financial freedom is having your heart and mind free from worry about the what-ifs of life"

 

"When you undervalue who you are, the world will undervalue what you do and vice versa"

 

 

Ultimately, invest in yourself and those in your network FIRST. Develop a lifelong goal to improve your skills and the skills of others. When you are known for doing that, people will seek you out. And then you will rarely be far from a paycheck.

 

Good stuff. I read a lot of financial books. I don't like Kiyosaki. Its not that all his ideas are bad, its that some are devastatingly bad, ie disdain for steady work and slow growing assets, and recommendations for over leveraging.

Edited June 15, 2011 by thelerner

[suninmyeyes]

I'm finally reading "Rich Dad, Poor Dad", and it's provoking me to face my emotional response to questions and lessons having to do with money.

 

I was definitely born to a "poor dad", and we were taught in very anti-materialist ways. I appreciate the spiritual purpose of my parents' lessons, but what they communicated to us was: that money was bad, which of course left us ignorant of how money works, and could possibly work for us.

 

I have shifted my relationship to money since then, but not much. Philosophically, I see money as a tool, as a source of freedom. But emotionally, I still see money as an enemy. While reading the book, I could feel how strongly my emotions wanted me to reject the author's arguments, even though they made perfect sense, intellectually. Those emotions exhibit my core beliefs about money, which I continue to avoid, to this day.

 

Has anyone in the bums "woken up" to their deepest beliefs about money, and then shifted your relationship, thereby? Has anyone moved from dependence to independence, by letting go of old beliefs about money?

 

If so, what woke you up? How has that process blossomed, and what was the fruit? What advice do you have for others, who are still just trying to face their beliefs about money?

I have moved from indipendace to dependance haha.

Living without money at times in past(lifestyle chosen conciessly and on purpose) to a regular work life nowdays,becouse I dont want to live a wild lifestyle any longer.This has blossomed together with all other changes in my life,infact my whole life turned around completley .

Deep inside I feel this is an issue I still need to pay attention carefully to be able to integrate fully.

Nice links people,thanks.

[suninmyeyes]

A challenge to someone who has the time (perhaps?)...

 

Share how money can be seen through TaoMeow's eyes in her theory of qi as [a] form of a certain potential, a "field of possibilities."

Where is Tao Meow to tell us more?

[zerostao]

in my experience i discovered that for me;

the level of my happiness or unhappiness, satisfaction or dis-satisfaction,

health on un-health, esteem or lack of, was not dependent on if i had money or not.

in times i had money, i experienced happiness and unhappiness.

in times i did not have money, i experienced happiness and unhappiness.

[strawdog65]

It seems many are dealing with resolving generational issues and breaking vicious family cycles this year...

 

As far as money - I think the healthy attitude is to measure your self-worth by your self, not your financial worth. As long as you are not reliant upon your financial worth for that and view money just as a nice bonus in life - then I think you can enjoy any amount of it without any personal heartburn.

 

Remember, true non-attachment is neither craving nor active rejection. Pushing away is also an attachment, and often a pushback to a subconscious craving. If you really didn't care, then there would be nothing to even resist.

 

So, real non-attachment is a neutral, non-needy, can take-it-or-leave-it mentality... Because you have become self-sufficient and don't need anything. Therefore, anything else gained externally is merely a bonus. Which can then be simply enjoyed and not rejected. But the lack of which is not a loss, either.

 

 

Hi Vortex.

I agree with what you have stated, and feel there is one thing I would like

to add to the discussion.

 

A large part of the unhappiness in many peoples lives is that they create

interminable situations by over spending and living beyond their means.

 

Living within your own monetary boundaries is very important to having

happiness on an everyday level.

 

It is the "idea" that because you "want" something you should

do whatever it takes to get it, including putting yourself into deep debt.

 

All material things are destined to hold only fleeting happiness.

It is what dwells inside of your being, and the having of loving

relationships that fill you with true and lasting happiness.

 

And when is the last time you used money to acquire those things?

 

 

Peace.

[innerspace_cadet]

I'd recommend a book called "The Richest Man in Babylon". It is written in parable format, but lays down some basic, but very solid personal finance principles.

[Otis]

in my experience i discovered that for me;

the level of my happiness or unhappiness, satisfaction or dis-satisfaction,

health on un-health, esteem or lack of, was not dependent on if i had money or not.

in times i had money, i experienced happiness and unhappiness.

in times i did not have money, i experienced happiness and unhappiness.

I think that's great, and money has never been a big driver for me, either.

 

But when things are tight, and every purchase (no matter how necessary) needs to be scrutinized, to make sure I don't bounce checks or go into debt, then the lack of money, unfortunately, does start to weigh heavily on me.

 

When I consider that I am 42, and have no plans yet for retirement, then I realize that I do need to consider money more carefully.

 

I have embraced not having (and was indoctrinated into that as a child), but now I think it's also time for me to embrace having.

[Everything]

My financial enlightenment came from a dream: we cannot eat money. All you have to do is replace the word money with food and water, then you can complain all you want. Don't complain about a lack of money when you have no idea what it even is! People who travel and complain about money I just want to smack their faces and say "enjoy your money, I'm going to eat chicken."

 

Alot of people fear their money is going away, since this is a monetary system. The real problem is food and water, we should fear that people die of hunger and disease because of lack of healthy food and water. Nature is whats real. Worry about food, then money. When the economy collapses, its not becauze we don't got enough food or money, its just that he whole system is one big failure or outdated. Some even believe the system is designed to keep us working as slaves, slaves that house their selves. Ultimate slavery. Soon we'll have to pay for air too. Then people will really seek financial enlightenment. I'm sure they'll have a perfectly good excuse for us paying for air. "Global warming! Now pay for air, because we've got kill some children who are potential terrorists. Bring them food and water for free? Hell no. Thats bad for the environment. Replace the working children in africa with robots? Hell no thats bad for the economy. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to eat my money du fromage. MMmmmm..."

 

People wont protest unless their system collapses. Look at greece and spain. Took so long for the people to notice all the flaws. When a country suddenly goes bankrupt only then do they realize/accept they've become a modern slave.

Edited June 17, 2011 by Everything

[Lucky7Strikes]

Money is ok as long as it stands for material goods, as a tool for exchange. When money is used to beget more money this is where all the trouble begins.

[Everything]

Money is ok as long as it stands for material goods, as a tool for exchange. When money is used to beget more money this is where all the trouble begins.

I hear in libya the banks are not allowed to use money in order to make more money. That would be awesome.

[Lucky7Strikes]

I hear in libya the banks are not allowed to use money in order to make more money. That would be awesome.

Only if it applied to rest of the world. Few people's greed have corrupted the whole system so the concept is only semi-valid. .

[Otis]

When money is used to beget more money this is where all the trouble begins.

I don't understand what this means. As in: investing? Buying stocks?

[Lucky7Strikes]

I don't understand what this means. As in: investing? Buying stocks?

Well sort of. Capital creating capital basically. No work is done, just clever scheming and greed.

 

[Mandrake]

Look at greece and spain. Took so long for the people to notice all the flaws. When a country suddenly goes bankrupt only then do they realize/accept they've become a modern slave.

 

Ummm Greece? Where people found ways to employ already dead people in order to extract rents? There was a lot of abuse and corruption in the system, still is. When I heard about how little some teachers have to work compared to their monthly salaries, my jaw dropped.

 

 

M

[Mandrake]

Well sort of. Capital creating capital basically. No work is done, just clever scheming and greed.

 

 

Since I don't really agree with the original proposition, could somebody summarized the main points of the movie so that I have the arguments?

 

 

Mandrake