killing the Buddha

[3bob]

Killing the Buddha

 

"There's an old saying, "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."

Who's that Buddha? What does it mean to "meet" the Buddha? What does killing the Buddha imply?

The historical Buddha, Shakyamuni, on attaining enlightenment, is said to have realized that all beings, just as they are, are Buddhas. If that's so, meeting a Buddha on the road should be a pretty commonplace event! So should being a Buddha on the road! But that's where the word "meeting" comes in. It implies encountering something or someone outside or other than oneself. We all come to practice carrying around images or ideals of who we should be and what we imagine a Teacher or Buddha should look like. And we may chase after individuals that for a while seem like they live up to our image, ignore those who do not, and generally treat ourselves with contempt for not living up to the standards set by our imaginary inner "Buddha." All this may keep us pretty busy, but it has nothing to do with real practice, which is an awareness of who and what we actually are, not the pursuit of some ideal of who we think we should be. So "killing the Buddha" means killing or wiping out this fantasy image, and "the road" is two fold: the road outside where we look outside ourselves for the ones who have all the answers, and the inner mind road, where we set up all the "shoulds" we must obey to turn ourselves into the Buddhas we don't believe we already are, but think we must become.

It is said that Shakyamuni's last dying words to his disciples were, "Be a lamp unto yourselves." Be your own light, your own authority, your own Buddha. Kill off every image of the Buddha, see who and what you are in this very moment, see that there is no Buddha other than THIS MOMENT.

A psychologist friend recently complained that Buddha's last words themselves were a trap. (Actually he called them something much less polite!) How can anybody TELL you to be your own authority? In the guise of liberation, these words become just one more dogma that the disciples submit to. Anybody who TELLS you to "Kill the Buddha" is giving a command as self-contradictory as "Be spontaneous!" It's a good point, and one that shows that this koan and Buddhism in general can't escape a more complex involvement with issues of authority. Our psychological reality is that we have to learn and practice to achieve our independence, and that learning almost inevitably has to take place within the context of some kind of disciplined practice. Remember we have to "kill the Buddhas" inside as well as outside ourselves. If we take this saying to mean only that we should reject all forms of external authority, we will end up leaving ourselves at the mercy of all sorts of, often unconscious, inner "Buddhas." Isaiah Berlin distinguished two kinds liberty he called positive and negative liberty. Negative liberty is freedom FROM, freedom from outside interference of one kind or another. Killing the outside Buddha may give us a version of this negative liberty. Positive liberty is freedom TO, the liberty of enabling conditions. And these are what are provided by a Teacher, a practice, a discipline. Berlin emphasized that the two kinds of liberty were conceptually at odds with one another, and an increase in one automatically meant a decrease in the other. And yet, we cannot thrive without both. Without a formal practice, we will never engage the deeply ingrained unconscious determinants of our character. But any practice, any teacher inevitably offers the risk and the temptation to hand over responsibility to someone or something outside of ourselves. The middle way is our balancing of these two truths. There is no one correct way to balance them, and every teacher, every discipline will offer a unique mix. No one can tell you how you, as a particular individual, ought to practice. Each of us must decide and take responsibility for the balance works best for us. That is how we truly can be a "lamp unto ourselves.""

[Otis]

Excellent share, 3bob, thanks!

[doc benway]

A very rich koan and a beautifully stated thought.

thanks

[exorcist_1699]

Many religions condemn other gods that are not worshiped by them as idols, which is not anything new to us ,however, Zen Buddhist way of fighting against an external , people-made ,wooden or metal idol , is unique. Please don't think that other Buddhist schools will do the same , otherwise you will be blamed for enforcing something blasphemy on others , which they are unwilling to commit .

 

Since the basic principle of Zen Buddhism is that all people is capable of becoming a Buddha , are having a Buddha Heart inside themselves , but not discovered, of course, the one they come across on the road outside there is unlikely be any real one, which, of course, can be killed or smashed.

 

Most Zen's ways of attaining enlightenment are simple, straight and look extreme to people , however, it is their way of making some spiritual breakthrough (into another world ) which ,is totally unreadable to people who haven't experienced it ....Just as we can't imagine how a maths genius can figure out the result of a 20-digit number multiplied by another 20-digit number in a second , Zen's condensed way of using a mindless intuition to such an extent/ altitude is really a masterpiece of human intelligence.

Edited June 15, 2011 by exorcist_1699

[宁]

Killing the Buddha

 

you'd better! or he'll bring all our forum to ruin

[doc benway]

you'd better! or he'll bring all our forum to ruin

[3bob]

Thanks for the replies folks.

 

As stated or implied by the quote a very wide range of words could also be subsituted for Buddha...

 

Further, it's all more or less in vain without Love, a meaning that can not be subsituted for.

 

Om

Edited June 15, 2011 by 3bob

[wearydreamer]

Follower often tend to cling to devotional thoughts which become obstacle. The saying intends to clear that.

Also there are stories of monk burning wooden statues of Buddha in cold winters. Intention is to help people see things as things are.

Edited June 16, 2011 by wearydreamer

[Otis]

Of course, Buddha asked not to be deified, or to have statues made of him, but that didn't last long...

 

Likewise, Mohammed also asked not to be turned into a religious icon, but unfortunately that's been turned into an excuse to kill people over Danish cartoons.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Killing the Buddha

We all come to practice carrying around images or ideals of who we should be and what we imagine a Teacher or Buddha should look like.

 

 

I see killing the Buddha to be destroying the super ego of our attainment. Once you see yourself as a Buddha then you are not one. The Diamond Sutra speaks at length about this.

[exorcist_1699]

I see killing the Buddha to be destroying the super ego of our attainment. Once you see yourself as a Buddha then you are not one. The Diamond Sutra speaks at length about this.

 

Compared to other religions, Buddhist way of getting rid of idol worship is unique and from the ground up because it knows that humans are inclined to create an idol ,in whatever form, they always desperately need. So, in reading the Diamond Sutre, we understand that not only an idol made of clay is nothing related to Buddha, any color, sound ,idea or symbol is in fact an obstacle barring us from becoming the Buddha.

 

Also , by reading a classics like the "Diamond Sutra" , we are impressed by how well the Zen Buddhism inherits the magnificience of the Mahayana Buddhism;Zen is really nothing "carzy" as some people think...

[exorcist_1699]

I see killing the Buddha to be destroying the super ego of our attainment. Once you see yourself as a Buddha then you are not one. The Diamond Sutra speaks at length about this.

 

Compared to other religions, Buddhist way of getting rid of idol worship is unique and from the ground up because it knows that humans are inclined to create an idol ,in whatever form, they always desperately need. So, in reading the Diamond Sutre, we understand that not only an idol made of clay is nothing related to Buddha, any color, sound ,idea or symbol is in fact an obstacle barring us from becoming the Buddha.

 

Also , by reading a classics like the "Diamond Sutra" , we are impressed by how well the Zen Buddhism inherits the magnificience of the Mahayana Buddhism;Zen is really nothing "carzy" as some people think...

[doc benway]

Compared to other religions, Buddhist way of getting rid of idol worship is unique and from the ground up because it knows that humans are inclined to create an idol ,in whatever form, they always desperately need. So, in reading the Diamond Sutre, we understand that not only an idol made of clay is nothing related to Buddha, any color, sound ,idea or symbol is in fact an obstacle barring us from becoming the Buddha.

 

Also , by reading a classics like the "Diamond Sutra" , we are impressed by how well the Zen Buddhism inherits the magnificience of the Mahayana Buddhism;Zen is really nothing "carzy" as some people think...

It may be unique and from the ground up but how effective is it?

Idols can be very subtle.

No matter what is said in the sutras, I wonder about the mindset of most practicing Buddhists as they pray.

Dogma can be an idol, practice can be an idol, anything we attach significance to can be our idol.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Dogma can be an idol, practice can be an idol, anything we attach significance to can be our idol.

 

Well said I think this is pretty much what defines the word "religion" for me, and why I avoid applying the term to paths that I follow. However, the term is tied up with my encounters with Abrahamic traditions, and especially the negative sides of them which inevitably stand out in front of the heart of the traditions.

[Birch]

Of course, Buddha asked not to be deified, or to have statues made of him, but that didn't last long...

 

Likewise, Mohammed also asked not to be turned into a religious icon, but unfortunately that's been turned into an excuse to kill people over Danish cartoons.

 

 

Otis, can I ask you NOT to worship me :-)

 

No seriously. "Don't, don't"

 

IMO both Buddha and Mohammed should have a) known better not let their self-importance get the better of them

 

Another reason to kill them

[Vajrahridaya]

Edited June 18, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Otis]

Otis, can I ask you NOT to worship me :-)

 

No seriously. "Don't, don't"

too late.

[exorcist_1699]

It may be unique and from the ground up but how effective is it?

Idols can be very subtle.

No matter what is said in the sutras, I wonder about the mindset of most practicing Buddhists as they pray.

Dogma can be an idol, practice can be an idol, anything we attach significance to can be our idol.

I do agree that the mindset of most practicing Buddhists are far from the ideal .

 

However, the unique way of Zen does tell us that hiding in between the changing of our minds ,for example :

 

 

1) After the end of the precedent idea but before the rise of a future idea.

 

or between :

 

2) Neither X nor non-X idea

 

 

there can be another world that most reasonable men ignore...

Edited June 18, 2011 by exorcist_1699