[TTC Study] Chapter 42 of the Tao Teh Ching

[Taoist Texts]

I hadn't considered that the 3 things might be actual things... just figured that they represent the vast multitude of stages that end up with us and all the other complex creatures... as I can see it's certainly not as simple as "1, 2, 3"

 

If the author was referring to specific ideas such as yinyang etc, why not just refer to them directly?

if the stages are multiudinous why to refer to them as 1 2 3?

[dust]

if the stages are multiudinous why to refer to them as 1 2 3?

 

Well, I suppose that, as my interpretation of the TTC as a whole has always been that the language is often purposefully vague so as to be able to imply many meanings, I just assumed that the 123 was so vague as to let people infer their own stages (as is happening in this thread )

 

For example, in dawei's translation above, there are a few more than 3 stages overall, and he has separated them into 3 major stages. This distinction is perfectly valid, it makes sense, but someone else will draw a different distinction..and someone else will come up with an entirely different list of stages. But they can all be summed up with a simple 1,2,3. So...the passage deftly sums up how Dao gave rise to all..

 

But I should emphasise, this is just my original assumption. I'm very open to the idea that the stages were intended to refer to specific things..

 

 

edit: (and as such, I'll shut up and just follow the discussion from now on.. )

Edited September 26, 2014 by dustybeijing

[Marblehead]

Nobody thinks about these things except Marblehead. He knows.

And I'm not telling.

[Taoist Texts]

In the beginning there was nothing in the universe except a formless chaos. This chaos coalesced into a cosmic egg for about 18,000 years. Within it, the perfectly opposed principles of Yin and Yang became balanced, and Pangu emerged (or woke up) from the egg. Pangu is usually depicted as a primitive, hairy giant who has horns on his head and wears furs. Pangu began creating the world: he separated Yin from Yang with a swing of his giant axe, creating the Earth (murky Yin) and the Sky (clear Yang). To keep them separated, Pangu stood between them and pushed up the Sky. This task took 18,000 years; with each day the sky grew ten feet (3 meters) higher, the Earth ten feet thicker, and Pangu ten feet taller. In some versions of the story, Pangu is aided in this task by the four most prominent beasts, namely the Turtle, the Qilin, the Phoenix, and the Dragon.

After the 18,000 years had elapsed, Pangu died. His breath became the wind, mist and clouds; his voice, thunder; his left eye, the sun; his right eye, the moon; his head, the mountains and extremes of the world; his blood, rivers; his muscles, fertile land; his facial hair, the stars and Milky Way; his fur, bushes and forests; his bones, valuable minerals; his bone marrow, sacred diamonds; his sweat, rain; and the fleas on his fur carried by the wind became animals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangu

 

[Marblehead]

Oh, no!!!!! My secret has been reveled.

[Mig]

Oh, no!!!!!  My secret has been reveled.

As I am reading some notes on this chapter I was wondering if someone knows why Mitchell translated the following:

 

Ordinary men hate solitude

but the sage makes use of it

embracing his aloneness, realizing

he is at one with the whole universe

 

I still can not find how that relates to the original Chinese text.

 

Thanks,

[dust]

Good question. No idea.

[Marblehead]

As I am reading some notes on this chapter I was wondering if someone knows why Mitchell translated the following:

 

Ordinary men hate solitude

but the sage makes use of it

embracing his aloneness, realizing

he is at one with the whole universe

 

I still can not find how that relates to the original Chinese text.

 

Thanks,

In his notes he states:  "Last stanza:  I have improvised here.  The text reads:"

 

and then he presents a translation that is very similar to Henricks' translation.

 

Perhaps he was just trying to simplify the last stanza?

[26sol]

isn't it interesting that this is also the start of the fibonacci sequence? 1,1,2,3...

[Marblehead]

3 hours ago, 26sol said:

isn't it interesting that this is also the start of the fibonacci sequence? 1,1,2,3...

Isn't it interesting that I have no idea what you are talking about?

 

[dawei]

On 5/23/2013 at 11:29 PM, dawei said:

 

I would suggest there are two "Ones";

 

3 hours ago, 26sol said:

isn't it interesting that this is also the start of the fibonacci sequence? 1,1,2,3...

 

21 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Isn't it interesting that I have no idea what you are talking about?

 

 

Dao >> One >> Two >> Three

 

1 >> 1 >> 2 >> 3

 

[七星門]

Somewhat like Plato, I've thought.

 

From Chaos (0) comes a point (1) but "this" implies "that" so a second point is born creating a line (2) but the tension between the two points requires a third forming a triangle (3). Add fourth point below the three & you end up with the most basic three dimensional shape (myriad things).  

 

Madhyamika is four-fold as well, working in a backwards order.

 

Affirmation of existence. 

Affirmation of non-existence. 

Affirmation of both existence & non-existence. 

Denial of both existence & non-existence.