Indonesian Qigong Masters are more powerful than the Chinese

[tulku]

This is apparent, otherwise how would you have recognized the magical spiritual power of the chap sitting comfortably in boiling oil, eh?

 

I have seen that particular chap upclose personally.

[C T]

I have seen that particular chap upclose personally.

Well, and i am telling ya i have seen his father and probably his grandfather doing the same tricks ages ago. Nothing to get too flustered over. Not saying he is powerless, but to make it appear to be something its not is both duping yourself and others. Not nice.

[Jetsun]

In the fourth way they describe people on the path who perform tricks like this as being on the path of the Fakir, which is a path which can lead to some attainment and many extraordinary tricks and body manipulations through the force of the mind, but it is generally considered the lowest path with the least potential out of all the paths available to humanity. There have been many sorts of Fakirs in the east performing tricks for thousands of years but none of them I am aware of have been regarded as spiritual giants, although I imagine it brings in a fair bit of money busking on the streets.

[C T]

In the fourth way they describe people on the path who perform tricks like this as being on the path of the Fakir, which is a path which can lead to some attainment and many extraordinary tricks and body manipulations through the force of the mind, but it is generally considered the lowest path with the least potential out of all the paths available to humanity. There have been many sorts of Fakirs in the east performing tricks for thousands of years but none of them I am aware of have been regarded as spiritual giants, although I imagine it brings in a fair bit of money busking on the streets.

Well said, Jetsun. Fakir is the exact term i used in a previous post. As time passes, the level of sophistication becomes finer, yet underneath its exactly as you said - busking for a dime.

[tulku]

Well said, Jetsun. Fakir is the exact term i used in a previous post. As time passes, the level of sophistication becomes finer, yet underneath its exactly as you said - busking for a dime.

 

The CIA had been spending lots of money researching how these fakirs and other middle eastern practitioners get cut without losing any blood or even incuring scars.

 

These parlour tricks are like the basics to a real master. If you can't perform these parlour tricks, then you do not deserve to be called a master.

 

Performing these parlour tricks require the sensing and manipulation of other-dimensional energies and physics. If you can't even sense and manipulate other-dimensional energies and physics, what right do you have to call yourself a master?

Edited June 20, 2011 by tulku

[Jetsun]

The CIA had been spending lots of money researching how these fakirs and other middle eastern practitioners get cut without losing any blood or even incuring scars.

 

These parlour tricks are like the basics to a real master. If you can't perform these parlour tricks, then you do not deserve to be called a master.

 

Performing these parlour tricks require the sensing and manipulation of other-dimensional energies and physics. If you can't even sense and manipulate other-dimensional energies and physics, what right do you have to call yourself a master?

 

Perhaps they are just learned skills like learning to drive a car or learning how to fix a computer, although they are probably harder to learn and take more concentration they may well be completely irrelevant for spiritual progress. Many such tricks can be done under the influence of hypnosis. If you ever meet someone who isn't afraid to be completely emotionally open and undefended around complete strangers then I bet you would find that more impressive than these party tricks.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Jetsun

[templetao]

Internal Energy Arts may come from China but due to the corruption of the materialistic society and control by the communist government, the practices have become diluted compared to Internal Energy Arts found in the SEA countries.

 

Even the arts of Spiritual Magick in China have become diluted due to the corrupting influences of money and procreation in the Chinese Society not only in China but also chinese societies overseas.

 

For Internal Energy Arts and Spiritual Magick Arts to flourish, the community of wizards and martial artists has to be given the freedom and the peace of mind to disseminate the teachings without fear. Because it is only when a large body of practitioners is gathered then can the Arts be experimented with and pushed beyond the limits to the next step. Otherwise, the Arts would just stagnate and even regress in their potential.

 

I know a wise spiritual practioner who is Chinese but he follows some really powerful Israeli Jew Magick Secret Teachings which are even more powerful than the Gnostics and Kabbalah. He told me this. He told me that SEA region contains some of the most powerful spiritual practitioners in the world and China, Taiwan and HK does not hold a candle to the SEA region in terms of spiritual power.

 

I didn't want to believe him but now I know it to be true. Any spiritual battles and contests held between the SEA region shamans and the Chinese sorcerers in China, HK and Taiwan will result in the Chinese sorcerers losing and losing BADLY. The same result will happen in the cases of the Internal Energy Martial Arts.

 

There are quite a few Taiwanese and HK spiritual masters who have to run off to SEA to seek spiritual help in defeating black magick. Ever wonder why? Just check the videos which I posted in my recent posts.

 

Let's face it. The Chinese are great fantastic manufacturers and businessmen but when it comes to magick? Give me a break. The Chinese have lost their spiritual power along with their souls a long long time ago.

 

 

Well at least your responding to me.

 

I bet you love chang san feng, lao tzu, and the eight immortals, and so on but yet you insult their children over political changes that they had no control over.

[tulku]

Perhaps they are just learned skills like learning to drive a car or learning how to fix a computer, although they are probably harder to learn and take more concentration they may well be completely irrelevant for spiritual progress. Many such tricks can be done under the influence of hypnosis. If you ever meet someone who isn't afraid to be completely emotionally open and undefended around complete strangers then I bet you would find that more impressive than these party tricks.

 

Concentration is needed for true spiritual progress.

[tulku]

Well at least your responding to me.

 

I bet you love chang san feng, lao tzu, and the eight immortals, and so on but yet you insult their children over political changes that they had no control over.

 

Everybody has control over their collective future. But if you find yourself stuck in a society which inhibits your spiritual progres, you should leave that particular society asap. Too bad most chinese don't even realize that their society inhibits their spiritual progress and if they are blind to the failings of their society, do you think they would leave that particular society in the first place?

 

I stress again it is the society at fault and not the race itself. The few chinese sorcerers I met are true geniuses, not only in magick but geniuses in matters of philosophy and psychology. It is like most chinese are pretty screwed up in the head but the ones who ain't screwed up, they are geniuses who look beyond the surface to the root of any problems. But then, I guess that pretty applies to every race.

Edited June 20, 2011 by tulku

[Apech]

I am making a petition to thetaobums to change their name to thetenagabums to reflect the superiority of Tenega Dalam over Taoist Qigong.

 

Talk about missing the point!

[h.uriahr]

Tulku,

 

Why do you keep ignoring my questions?

 

What system do you study and where do you reside?

[goldisheavy]

The CIA had been spending lots of money researching how these fakirs and other middle eastern practitioners get cut without losing any blood or even incuring scars.

 

These parlour tricks are like the basics to a real master. If you can't perform these parlour tricks, then you do not deserve to be called a master.

 

Performing these parlour tricks require the sensing and manipulation of other-dimensional energies and physics. If you can't even sense and manipulate other-dimensional energies and physics, what right do you have to call yourself a master?

 

Here's the problem.

 

It's possible to learn to manipulate energies without truly understanding the broader and more fundamental truths about those same energies. An example of this is a car mechanic. Every time a car mechanic is fixing the car, he's manipulating fundamental energies of the universe to do so without really knowing how they work and why. Through trial and error, through copying others, this kind of person found something that works and just keeps repeating that something. This kind of activity has some value. At the same time, this kind of person does not aim at the pinnacle of wisdom, and if you follow one such, you'll be influenced by the smallishness of the mind such people often have.

 

It's also possible to learn the more fundamental truths without learning how to use that knowledge to manipulate things. An example of this is a physicist who knows far more than the car mechanic about the fundamental truths of the energies being manipulated, but who may not necessarily know how to repair even the simplest malfunction in the car. This kind of knowledge is more beneficial to society because from this knowledge the trade of the car mechanic can be derived much more readily than trying to derive the knowledge of the physics from the car mechanic's activities. That's because physics is a higher-order knowledge. From physics many many trades and activities can be derived with relative ease precisely because it's a higher-order knowledge.

 

In the spiritual realm this analogue exists as well. People like Sariputra were considered enlightened by Buddha, even though Sariputra couldn't perform any fancy tricks. Sariputra was considered foremost in the development of wisdom. At the same time, Maha Moggallana was also considered enlightened, and he was considered foremost in the development of psychic powers.

 

Ideally an enlightened person should have both wisdom and power, but if you have to pick only one, pick wisdom every time.

 

In conclusion, many manipulators are ignorant shallow people, and many people who cannot manipulate anything are true gems. As long as you don't forget this, go ahead and develop power.

Edited June 20, 2011 by goldisheavy

[tulku]

Here's the problem.

 

It's possible to learn to manipulate energies without truly understanding the broader and more fundamental truths about those same energies. An example of this is a car mechanic. Every time a car mechanic is fixing the car, he's manipulating fundamental energies of the universe to do so without really knowing how they work and why. Through trial and error, through copying others, this kind of person found something that works and just keeps repeating that something. This kind of activity has some value. At the same time, this kind of person does not aim at the pinnacle of wisdom, and if you follow one such, you'll be influenced by the smallishness of the mind such people often have.

 

It's also possible to learn the more fundamental truths without learning how to use that knowledge to manipulate things. An example of this is a physicist who knows far more than the car mechanic about the fundamental truths of the energies being manipulated, but who may not necessarily know how to repair even the simplest malfunction in the car. This kind of knowledge is more beneficial to society because from this knowledge the trade of the car mechanic can be derived much more readily than trying to derive the knowledge of the physics from the car mechanic's activities. That's because physics is a higher-order knowledge. From physics many many trades and activities can be derived with relative ease precisely because it's a higher-order knowledge.

 

In the spiritual realm this analogue exists as well. People like Sariputra were considered enlightened by Buddha, even though Sariputra couldn't perform any fancy tricks. Sariputra was considered foremost in the development of wisdom. At the same time, Maha Moggallana was also considered enlightened, and he was considered foremost in the development of psychic powers.

 

Ideally an enlightened person should have both wisdom and power, but if you have to pick only one, pick wisdom every time.

 

In conclusion, many manipulators are ignorant shallow people, and many people who cannot manipulate anything are true gems. As long as you don't forget this, go ahead and develop power.

 

In order to attain jalus, you need to be able to develop power. If you can't develop power, you can forget about getting jalus, regardless of how wise and enlightened you are. Jalus is the highest state of attainment for humanity.

Edited June 21, 2011 by tulku

[C T]

In order to attain jalus, you need to be able to develop power. If you can't develop power, you can forget about getting jalus, regardless of how wise and enlightened you are. Jalus is the highest state of attainment for humanity.

I disagree.

 

Jalus is not an attainment in the normal sense. Individuals whose ultimate experience lead to the rainbow body arises due to being guided by a serene indifference to all things and by leading the simplest, non-harming life possible. There is nothing to do - in other words, there are no formulas or teachings that will guarantee this ultimate fruition of non-distractedness. Even leading the life of simplicity and non-harming is no assurance of jalus, but will present optimum conditions for its experience. In simplicity, needs are allowed to subside and gradually let go of altogether - in non-harming, one gains compassionate insight into the true nature of all things.

 

The beginning of the experience of jalus is the insight and development stage of relative equanimity, leading to it culminating as a realization of the union of both relative and absolute equanimous views. In 'completion stage' equanimity, in the absolute sense, the tiniest distinguishing impulse to create even the subtlest separation between two things ceases and falls away - when this view becomes one's total experience without any distractions whatsoever, pervasively stable in sleep or awake, then the conditions are in place for jalus to ripen and bear fruit.

 

When a master blesses a student with a peep into his or her own nature of mind, at that very point, the student gets a taste of the ultimate equalness of all things, realizing the fundamental sameness of a buddha's mind and one's own. This, however, is not a realization, because the taste has to be experientially developed and made to function on the relative level of daily existence. Its upon developing deeper and deeper stability in the first peep that realization begins to dawn.

 

Any attempt to 'get' jalus is already self-defeating. 'Hope of gain' is a form of arrogance, in the Buddhist sense. If one's goal is to dissolve the body into rainbows at death, then it goes against the teachings to actually harbor any such desires at all. Jalus is the pinnacle of the dissolution of identification with the body. Who is left to attain anything? This is why in the stories of Tibet of yogis who leave in the rainbow bodies, most of these individuals live lowly lives - peasants, farmers, herders, that sort of people are the ones whom the learned teachers speak of when they talk about those who 'attain' jalus. On the surface its almost impossible to see how realized these simple folks are. So the development of siddhis/powers is definitely not in line with rainbow body fruition. Rainbow departures will always elude those who crave power.

 

For further clarification, go read up some commentaries by Patrul Rinpoche (the secret Lama!!) and Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche. The latter-named wrote a great book aptly titled "Rainbow Painting" which touches on this subject quite a bit.

Edited June 21, 2011 by CowTao

[tulku]

I disagree.

 

Jalus is not an attainment in the normal sense. Individuals whose ultimate experience lead to the rainbow body arises due to being guided by a serene indifference to all things and by leading the simplest, non-harming life possible. There is nothing to do - in other words, there are no formulas or teachings that will guarantee this ultimate fruition of non-distractedness. Even leading the life of simplicity and non-harming is no assurance of jalus, but will present optimum conditions for its experience. In simplicity, needs are allowed to subside and gradually let go of altogether - in non-harming, one gains compassionate insight into the true nature of all things.

 

The beginning of the experience of jalus is the insight and development stage of relative equanimity, leading to it culminating as a realization of the union of both relative and absolute equanimous views. In 'completion stage' equanimity, in the absolute sense, the tiniest distinguishing impulse to create even the subtlest separation between two things ceases and falls away - when this view becomes one's total experience without any distractions whatsoever, pervasively stable in sleep or awake, then the conditions are in place for jalus to ripen and bear fruit.

 

When a master blesses a student with a peep into his or her own nature of mind, at that very point, the student gets a taste of the ultimate equalness of all things, realizing the fundamental sameness of a buddha's mind and one's own. This, however, is not a realization, because the taste has to be experientially developed and made to function on the relative level of daily existence. Its upon developing deeper and deeper stability in the first peep that realization begins to dawn.

 

Any attempt to 'get' jalus is already self-defeating. 'Hope of gain' is a form of arrogance, in the Buddhist sense. If one's goal is to dissolve the body into rainbows at death, then it goes against the teachings to actually harbor any such desires at all. Jalus is the pinnacle of the dissolution of identification with the body. Who is left to attain anything? This is why in the stories of Tibet of yogis who leave in the rainbow bodies, most of these individuals live lowly lives - peasants, farmers, herders, that sort of people are the ones whom the learned teachers speak of when they talk about those who 'attain' jalus. On the surface its almost impossible to see how realized these simple folks are. So the development of siddhis/powers is definitely not in line with rainbow body fruition. Rainbow departures will always elude those who crave power.

 

For further clarification, go read up some commentaries by Patrul Rinpoche (the secret Lama!!) and Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche. The latter-named wrote a great book aptly titled "Rainbow Painting" which touches on this subject quite a bit.

 

Very impressive explaination. However, I have often been told that books do not teach you everything. They only offer the basics and foundation for you to work on.

 

One of the chinese sorcerer whom I know said this. He said that the tibetan lamas do not offer everything to the public. They only give specific teachings according to the individual's level of attainment.

 

You say that jalus attainment depends on one attaining the buddha mind. Then may I ask you if you do know that the fundamental approaches of gaining jalus include the process of generating a spiritual foetus and transferring your consciousness to that spiritual foetus found in mantak chia's teachings?

 

Do you know that in dzogchen, the jalus seeker has to practice phowa and chi meditation as well as other yogic practices? Yogic practices which include the manipulation of energies inside your body and dealing with higher dimensional beings through your higher mind?

 

Attaining the buddha mind is a foundation to attaining jalus but it is just a foundation and nothing more. You will be sorely mistaken if you delude yourself into thinking that the buddha mind is the sole pre-requisite of attaining jalus.

 

The development of siddhis and powers for the goal of attaining enlightenment and the rainbow body is a perfectly justfiable excuse. There is nothing wrong with developing siddhis and powers as long as it is for a noble purpose like attaining jalus.

 

Read the following post by someone else posting in another forum.

 

http://www.thebigview.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3002

 

Absolutely,...why gain prajna for the sake of siddhi? However, to gain siddhi for the sake prajna would be different.

 

Siddhi or magick, for those on the Short Path, is as a personal litmus test which shows their level of understanding that emptiness is form and form is emptiness. If one has an ability to use all Nine Magick Perfections, then they have a full realization of Emptiness and Form. No magick ability, no full useful awareness of Emptiness and Form. If you are on the Hinayana (narrow path) or Mahayana (open path) then by all means follow spirit without hesitation, and stay on your path. The Short Path is for a very few. They are the Shambhala warriors committed to bringing peace and human beingness to the planet.

 

My book, "Exploring Freethought Magick," is not for everyone. The Short Path is very difficult (for the ego), because to enter the Short Path one must understand on an essense level that the universe is not here for them, but that they are here for the universe,...for as long as the universe exists (through perception). Those on the Short Path are not "getting out" any sooner than anyone else, but here to bring more love and light in.

 

Buddha was said to have predicted (in the Kalachakra) a time when Short Pathers or Shambhala warriors would emerge in such masses (more than a single Buddha) that it will precipatate a great religious war which will bring a conclusion to all superstitions, and Shambhala will be the guiding force of the next levels of evolution.

 

Because those on the Short Path gain an intimate understanding of Emptiness is Form and Form is Emptiness, their compassion is unsurpassed, as Buddha suggested in the Heart Sutra. That compassion is the vital force which fills their every cell with a committment for the liberation of all sentient beings.

Edited June 21, 2011 by tulku

[goldisheavy]

In order to attain jalus, you need to be able to develop power. If you can't develop power, you can forget about getting jalus, regardless of how wise and enlightened you are.

 

I agree.

 

Jalus is the highest state of attainment for humanity.

 

I disagree. It's not the highest at all. You can attain light body while being in a state of complete ignorance. You just need to be stubborn above all and a bit of luck.

[tulku]

I agree.

 

 

 

I disagree. It's not the highest at all. You can attain light body while being in a state of complete ignorance. You just need to be stubborn above all and a bit of luck.

 

I believe jalus, rainbow body and light body are one and the same.

 

Yes, one needs to be really stubborn about accomplishing jalus but no, it is quite impossible to accomplish jalus while in a state of complete ignorance.

 

Complete ignorance comes about as a result of fools ignoring the impermanence of this world. You can have siddhis while still remaining ignorant completely.

 

I know of many people possessing the siddhis of remote viewing and they can see the woman or man whom they are dating growing old in the future, defecating in the toilet, digging their nose, scratching their balls/breasts and yet they stubbornly refuse to fall out of the mara of lust and procreation. This would be what I call complete ignorance regardless of how many psychic powers you have.

[templetao]

I believe jalus, rainbow body and light body are one and the same.

 

Yes, one needs to be really stubborn about accomplishing jalus but no, it is quite impossible to accomplish jalus while in a state of complete ignorance.

 

Complete ignorance comes about as a result of fools ignoring the impermanence of this world. You can have siddhis while still remaining ignorant completely.

 

I know of many people possessing the siddhis of remote viewing and they can see the woman or man whom they are dating growing old in the future, defecating in the toilet, digging their nose, scratching their balls/breasts and yet they stubbornly refuse to fall out of the mara of lust and procreation. This would be what I call complete ignorance regardless of how many psychic powers you have.

 

 

Your conclusions and beliefs just make my head hurt....

 

Man and woman are meant to be together decreed by heaven. Its how we all got here. So to be honest I dont think its foolish for a women to still like man just because she can remote view and see him using the toilet because we are all human and we all use the toilet. I think that maybe if she didnt want to see that than she wouldnt remote view on him.

 

Just a thought.

 

There is a very real magnetic attraction that pulls certain men and women together infact its spiritual.

 

As a child I use to remote view and control my chi before I even knew what it was.

 

Now to the topic at hand upon doing some research I discovered that China has more taoist temples per capita than anywhere else in the world. In these temples there are taoist monks and priests who study and practice taoism from the time they get up till the time they go to bed.

 

Yes I know I was shocked as well to discover that China has more taoist than any other country.

 

Now ignore-ance basically means to ignore the obvious truth to where it is almost offensive to others around you.

 

I think this is what is going on here.

[C T]

I have often been told that books do not teach you everything. They only offer the basics and foundation for you to work on.

 

One of the chinese sorcerer whom I know said this. He said that the tibetan lamas do not offer everything to the public. They only give specific teachings according to the individual's level of attainment.

 

You say that jalus attainment depends on one attaining the buddha mind. Then may I ask you if you do know that the fundamental approaches of gaining jalus include the process of generating a spiritual foetus and transferring your consciousness to that spiritual foetus found in mantak chia's teachings?

 

Do you know that in dzogchen, the jalus seeker has to practice phowa and chi meditation as well as other yogic practices? Yogic practices which include the manipulation of energies inside your body and dealing with higher dimensional beings through your higher mind?

 

Attaining the buddha mind is a foundation to attaining jalus but it is just a foundation and nothing more. You will be sorely mistaken if you delude yourself into thinking that the buddha mind is the sole pre-requisite of attaining jalus.

 

The development of siddhis and powers for the goal of attaining enlightenment and the rainbow body is a perfectly justfiable excuse. There is nothing wrong with developing siddhis and powers as long as it is for a noble purpose like attaining jalus.

 

Did i say that? I said Jalus is not an attainment. Just as calm-abiding or contentment is not an attainment. These are fruitions or effects of a spiritual life well lived. One simply keeps practicing and practicing until one day the perception of dualistic forms as separate from one's mind dissolves. How pure the body becomes is directly related to how far one reaches in stabilizing the Non-dual view of Great Equanimity, and most importantly, if this great view can be maintained at death. One can practice in non-dual awareness all of one's life, or cultivate all the siddhis in one life, but if at the point of death, there arises an ounce of doubt, or fear of loss, or that one has not done enough, or regret for losing all the siddhis gained, these become the very mindstates that will hamper the ultimate transference (phowa), which is the basis for Jalus to take place.

 

I agree that simply reading books cannot lead to any real realizations. Yet its foolish to ignore the words of the great adepts who have been there done that. And one of the greatest adepts of all, Longchenpa, has this advice for you:

 

"We should cast aside all childish games that fetter and exhaust the body, speech and mind; and stretching out in inconceivable non-action, in the unstructured matrix, the actuality of emptiness,where the natural perfection of reality lies, we ought to gaze at the uncontrived sameness of every experience, all conditioning and ambition resolved with finality."

 

 

"Pure mind is like the empty sky,

without memory, supreme meditation;

it is our own nature, unstirring, uncontrived,

and wherever that abides is the superior mind,

one in buddhahood without any sign,

one in View free of limiting elaboration,

one in meditation free of limiting ideation,

one in conduct free of limiting endeavor,

and one in fruition free of limiting attainment.

 

Vast! Spacious!

Released as it arises!

With neither realization nor non-realization;

experience consumate! No Mind!

Open to infinity."

 

 

 

"In the universal womb that is boundless space

all forms of matter and energy occur

as flux of the four elements,

but all are empty forms, absent in reality:

all phenomena, arising in pure mind, are like that.

 

just as dream is a part of sleep,

unreal in its arising,

so all and everything is pure mind,

never separated from it,

and without substance or attribute.

 

Experience is neither mind nor anything but mind;

it is a vivid display of emptiness, like magical illusion,

in the very moment inconceivable and unutterable.

All experience arising in the mind,

at its very inception, know it as all-empty!"

 

 

Longchenpa speaks of ultimate freedom:

 

"Freedom attends reality:

free at the core, any effort is wasted;

timelessly free, no release is needed;

free in itself, no corrective is possible;

directly free, released in the very seeing;

completely free, pure in nature;

constantly free, familiarization is redundant;

and naturally free, freedom cannot be contrived.

 

Yet 'freedom' is just a verbal convention,

and who is 'realized' and who is not?

how could anyone be 'liberated'?

How could anyone be lost in samsara?

Reality is free of all delimitation!

 

Freedom is timeless, so constantly present;

freedom is natural, so unconditional;

freedom is direct, so pure vision obtains;

freedom is unbounded, so no identity possible;

freedom is unitary, so multiplicity is consumed.

 

Conduct changes nothing - our lives are already free!

Meditation achieves nothing - our minds are already free!

The View realizes nothing - all dogma is freedom!

Fruition demands nothing - we are already free as we are!"

 

 

These words alone will take lifetimes to permeate the conditioned mind which yearns for spiritual awakening, yet if due to meritorious ripening of karma from previous moments or lifetimes, one's wisdom mind at once realizes the profundity and utter simplicity upon reading these words, what is left to do?

[tulku]

Your conclusions and beliefs just make my head hurt....

 

Man and woman are meant to be together decreed by heaven. Its how we all got here. So to be honest I dont think its foolish for a women to still like man just because she can remote view and see him using the toilet because we are all human and we all use the toilet. I think that maybe if she didnt want to see that than she wouldnt remote view on him.

 

Just a thought.

 

There is a very real magnetic attraction that pulls certain men and women together infact its spiritual.

 

As a child I use to remote view and control my chi before I even knew what it was.

 

Now to the topic at hand upon doing some research I discovered that China has more taoist temples per capita than anywhere else in the world. In these temples there are taoist monks and priests who study and practice taoism from the time they get up till the time they go to bed.

 

Yes I know I was shocked as well to discover that China has more taoist than any other country.

 

Now ignore-ance basically means to ignore the obvious truth to where it is almost offensive to others around you.

 

I think this is what is going on here.

 

Man and woman are decreed by heaven to be together until their higher self or soul finally realizes the fultility of the illusionary gameworld which all of us are in. Why do you think humans grow old and die? If man and woman are meant to be together, then why is there separation in every marriage and every relationship whether it be through death, divorce or mutual separation?

 

It is only when man and woman realizes the fultility of the samsara which we live in then can they summon up the courage and willpower to leave the mundane world in favour of the spiritual. Of course you can be married and be spiritual at the same time but it is like focusing on doing two things at once. Your marriage life would definitely create many obstacles and problems for your spiritual life.

 

Yes there are many taoists in China but the level of true spiritual taoist knowledge has severely degraded due to the purging of religion and spirituality throughout Chinese history. Unlike Thailand and Indonesia where the culture has really encouraged the study and experimentation of magick, Chinese culture has frowned upon and even destroyed magick and spirituality on numerous occassions. The current lineage of taoist masters in China are all heavily controlled by the communist government and the true practices regarding enlightenment and development of siddhis have been curtailed by the Chinese communist government a long time ago.

 

Oh btw, did I mention that the Chinese communist government has its own secret CIA type division of remote viewers and influencers? Yep, apparently the Chinese communist government believed and heavily relied upon the use of psychic powers (they have this program where they actively seek out kids with psychic talent) yet they have actively suppressed and controlled religion and spirituality in China. Hmmm .. I wonder why?

 

Go to China? No thanks I would live in Indonesia and Thailand and learn from the Indo/Thai Shamans. They would crush the Chinese anytime.

Edited June 21, 2011 by tulku

[tulku]

Did i say that? I said Jalus is not an attainment. Just as calm-abiding or contentment is not an attainment. These are fruitions or effects of a spiritual life well lived. One simply keeps practicing and practicing until one day the perception of dualistic forms as separate from one's mind dissolves. How pure the body becomes is directly related to how far one reaches in stabilizing the Non-dual view of Great Equanimity, and most importantly, if this great view can be maintained at death. One can practice in non-dual awareness all of one's life, or cultivate all the siddhis in one life, but if at the point of death, there arises an ounce of doubt, or fear of loss, or that one has not done enough, or regret for losing all the siddhis gained, these become the very mindstates that will hamper the ultimate transference (phowa), which is the basis for Jalus to take place.

 

I agree that simply reading books cannot lead to any real realizations. Yet its foolish to ignore the words of the great adepts who have been there done that. And one of the greatest adepts of all, Longchenpa, has this advice for you:

 

"We should cast aside all childish games that fetter and exhaust the body, speech and mind; and stretching out in inconceivable non-action, in the unstructured matrix, the actuality of emptiness,where the natural perfection of reality lies, we ought to gaze at the uncontrived sameness of every experience, all conditioning and ambition resolved with finality."

 

 

"Pure mind is like the empty sky,

without memory, supreme meditation;

it is our own nature, unstirring, uncontrived,

and wherever that abides is the superior mind,

one in buddhahood without any sign,

one in View free of limiting elaboration,

one in meditation free of limiting ideation,

one in conduct free of limiting endeavor,

and one in fruition free of limiting attainment.

 

Vast! Spacious!

Released as it arises!

With neither realization nor non-realization;

experience consumate! No Mind!

Open to infinity."

 

 

 

"In the universal womb that is boundless space

all forms of matter and energy occur

as flux of the four elements,

but all are empty forms, absent in reality:

all phenomena, arising in pure mind, are like that.

 

just as dream is a part of sleep,

unreal in its arising,

so all and everything is pure mind,

never separated from it,

and without substance or attribute.

 

Experience is neither mind nor anything but mind;

it is a vivid display of emptiness, like magical illusion,

in the very moment inconceivable and unutterable.

All experience arising in the mind,

at its very inception, know it as all-empty!"

 

 

Longchenpa speaks of ultimate freedom:

 

"Freedom attends reality:

free at the core, any effort is wasted;

timelessly free, no release is needed;

free in itself, no corrective is possible;

directly free, released in the very seeing;

completely free, pure in nature;

constantly free, familiarization is redundant;

and naturally free, freedom cannot be contrived.

 

Yet 'freedom' is just a verbal convention,

and who is 'realized' and who is not?

how could anyone be 'liberated'?

How could anyone be lost in samsara?

Reality is free of all delimitation!

 

Freedom is timeless, so constantly present;

freedom is natural, so unconditional;

freedom is direct, so pure vision obtains;

freedom is unbounded, so no identity possible;

freedom is unitary, so multiplicity is consumed.

 

Conduct changes nothing - our lives are already free!

Meditation achieves nothing - our minds are already free!

The View realizes nothing - all dogma is freedom!

Fruition demands nothing - we are already free as we are!"

 

 

These words alone will take lifetimes to permeate the conditioned mind which yearns for spiritual awakening, yet if due to meritorious ripening of karma from previous moments or lifetimes, one's wisdom mind at once realizes the profundity and utter simplicity upon reading these words, what is left to do?

 

Didn't I say that books and the buddha mind are just the basics? How do you expect to realize the ultimate attainment - Jalus - if you are already satisfied with just attaining the buddha mind? Ah well, it is your life. If you want to believe that attaining the buddha mind is the ultimate achievement in spirituality, then so be it. I have very different roads from you, fortunately for me. Jalus is for me and fortunately there are some shamans in indonesia practising Jalus for me to learn from.

[h.uriahr]

Man and woman are decreed by heaven to be together until their higher self or soul finally realizes the fultility of the illusionary gameworld which all of us are in. Why do you think humans grow old and die? If man and woman are meant to be together, then why is there separation in every marriage and every relationship whether it be through death, divorce or mutual separation?

 

It is only when man and woman realizes the fultility of the samsara which we live in then can they summon up the courage and willpower to leave the mundane world in favour of the spiritual. Of course you can be married and be spiritual at the same time but it is like focusing on doing two things at once. Your marriage life would definitely create many obstacles and problems for your spiritual life.

 

Yes there are many taoists in China but the level of true spiritual taoist knowledge has severely degraded due to the purging of religion and spirituality throughout Chinese history. Unlike Thailand and Indonesia where the culture has really encouraged the study and experimentation of magick, Chinese culture has frowned upon and even destroyed magick and spirituality on numerous occassions. The current lineage of taoist masters in China are all heavily controlled by the communist government and the true practices regarding enlightenment and development of siddhis have been curtailed by the Chinese communist government a long time ago.

 

Oh btw, did I mention that the Chinese communist government has its own secret CIA type division of remote viewers and influencers? Yep, apparently the Chinese communist government believed and heavily relied upon the use of psychic powers (they have this program where they actively seek out kids with psychic talent) yet they have actively suppressed and controlled religion and spirituality in China. Hmmm .. I wonder why?

 

Go to China? No thanks I would live in Indonesia and Thailand and learn from the Indo/Thai Shamans. They would crush the Chinese anytime.

 

The only "evidence" you have to support your arguement is youtube and supposed conversations with chinese sorcerors?? You also admit that you DON'T live in Indonesia or Thailand or even China?

 

Wow. Your behavior is borderline trollish

Edited June 21, 2011 by h.uriahr

[templetao]

Tulku,

 

As an effort to help you from being decieved. I will let in you on a little secret.

 

To quote a good friend o mine, "Taoist act dumb like they know nothing. Taoist keep their mouths shut."

 

I think you maybe be experiencing that.

 

I think south east asia is more open about teaching higher level chikung to anyone that walks up.

 

Case in point about China being secretive is that most of us would not even know about neikung if it wasnt for john chang.

 

 

In my experience Taoist masters are usually more powerful than what they let on to be.

 

Even the simplest taoist exercise can result in lots of power if we here in the west could refrain from sexual activities to attain it.

Edited June 21, 2011 by templetao

[thelerner]

This style of conversation pops up in Martial Arts forums all the time. Usually amongst the younger members. Ultimately its doesn't matter who could beat up who; in whose imagination. What counts is what are You doing, How hard do You practice, How much time spent on the mat.

 

That is what matters in life. If some master can pull a rabbit out of his butt, that's impressive, but is that what you're training for? Is that the goal? Does he have students who can do it?

 

Some people are prodigies who've trained with master level teachers since youth. They're the superstars. They can inspire us, we can learn from them, but unless you're in similar conditions, you're not going to become them. Still you can become the best you can and be happy with it. Sometimes the best we can hope for is steady progress.

[Jetsun]

You were off to the Himalayas a few weeks ago now it's Indonesia, I would make a choice of path soon if I were you or before you know it your life will be over.