Is there a Purpose in Nature?

[Immortal4life]

Why do so many beings strive to survive, at almost all costs? Because Life and Energy is one of the fundamental characteristics of existence. Life always perseveres. Life always wants to unfold and reach it's potential. Life is always true to itself.

[Apech]

If the purpose of life is to survive and human's are part of nature ... which they are as it is arrogant to think otherwise ... then what part of survival is served by the development of Taoism?

[Marblehead]

Really great posts, the last few.

 

I do agree that the goal (not necessarily the purpose) of all living things is to survive and reach its full potential. This includes all plants and animals.

 

It is my opinion that the Way of Tao is probably the best way of attaining this goal. Therefore I have elected to be a Taoist (to walk the path of Tao).

[C T]

If the purpose of life is to survive and human's are part of nature ... which they are as it is arrogant to think otherwise ... then what part of survival is served by the development of Taoism?

The humanistic part perhaps?

 

Quirky and ambitious as we are, it appears that at this point in time, more and more people are being sensitized and attuned to expressing life beyond the material realm.

 

The outer comforts having been desired and gotten, have now left a sort of indelible blandness of taste and dissatisfaction in the soul. In the process of becoming numb to being overloaded by external stimulus, an internal window have somehow opened in conjunct - people have now had glimpses to sense that there are deeper, more holistic layers to survival where further explorations of a philosophical, spiritual and artistic kind can happen. Its my feeling that Taoism and some other Eastern traditions have gained quite a foothold in this regard, as paths which offer more attractive albeit radical alternatives.

 

Gradually, this vista to the inner world is being widened, and the new paradigm may present many with answers they are seeking, while for some others, unfortunately, it becomes just another substitute distraction based on conceit and selfish gains. And so the wheel turns.

 

Personally, i am looking forward to the day when i can start enjoying doing nothing except lying on the rug all day, playing with lint balls. Talk about ambition...

Edited June 24, 2011 by CowTao

[Apech]

The humanistic part perhaps?

 

Quirky and ambitious as we are, it appears that at this point in time, more and more people are being sensitized and attuned to expressing life beyond the material realm.

 

The outer comforts having been desired and gotten, have now left a sort of indelible blandness of taste and dissatisfaction in the soul. In the process of becoming numb to being overloaded by external stimulus, an internal window have somehow opened in conjunct - people have now had glimpses to sense that there are deeper, more holistic layers to survival where further explorations of a philosophical, spiritual and artistic kind can happen. Its my feeling that Taoism and some other Eastern traditions have gained quite a foothold in this regard, as paths which offer more attractive albeit radical alternatives.

 

Gradually, this vista to the inner world is being widened, and the new paradigm may present many with answers they are seeking, while for some others, unfortunately, it becomes just another substitute distraction based on conceit and selfish gains. And so the wheel turns.

 

Personally, i am looking forward to the day when i can start enjoying doing nothing except lying on the rug all day, playing with lint balls. Talk about ambition...

 

I have noticed recently that practically everyone I hear about is either depressed or on medication for depression. World tiredness I think.

[Marblehead]

"Everything is amazing right now and nobody is happy"

 

Wait a freakin' minute!!! I'm happy!

[C T]

I have noticed recently that practically everyone I hear about is either depressed or on medication for depression. World tiredness I think.

 

Maybe they never heard of banoffee pies? Works for me whenever i get down in the dumps. Works for my neighbor too, as long as i am the one buying the ice-cream to go with it.

[zerostao]

Wait a freakin' minute!!! I'm happy!

yeah me too afterall it IS just another wonderful day in the tao.

this morning seemed especially wonderful. as i walked to town after doing

my morning meditation and qigongs. anyways i noticed something,

this little poor town, no jobs, no prospects, no money etc etc yet the

town was filled with laughter as folks were going about their daily chores

and embracing their mundane existence.

acceptance?

[Apech]

Nope. But it sure does look good. When I come to visit, may we indulge together?

 

 

 

@Marblehead & zero -- glad to here you both are resting in your true TAO nature.

 

Pies, cakes and biscuits ... the answer to everything!

[Marblehead]

yeah me too afterall it IS just another wonderful day in the tao.

this morning seemed especially wonderful. as i walked to town after doing

my morning meditation and qigongs. anyways i noticed something,

this little poor town, no jobs, no prospects, no money etc etc yet the

town was filled with laughter as folks were going about their daily chores

and embracing their mundane existence.

acceptance?

 

Yes, acceptance, I think. This too is wu wei, I think. When there is nothing that can be done we do nothing and just be contented with what little we do have and this contentment can breed a certain level of happiness.

[Marblehead]

@Marblehead & zero -- glad to here you both are resting in your true TAO nature.

 

Thanks. I have a feeling that you are here with us as well.

[Marblehead]

Pies, cakes and biscuits ... the answer to everything!

 

Not for everyone, darn it! My doctor wants me to cut way back on my carb intake until my next blood test near the end of next month. It has been a real drag so far!

[C T]

Nope. But it sure does look good. When I come to visit, may we indulge together?

 

You bet! Will we also get tubs of HaagenDazs to wash it all down, ok?? hehehe...

 

Although i must say that the ones i make do not look half as sinful! They're nonetheless gratifyingly delicious... i was told.

[strawdog65]

Nope. But it sure does look good. When I come to visit, may we indulge together?

 

 

 

@Marblehead & zero -- glad to here you both are resting in your true TAO nature.

 

 

You Bums.... Having your pie and eating it too.

 

 

Looks yummy!

 

If enjoying something that looks that good isn't enough to prove

there is a purpose to nature, then I don't know what does.

[Apech]

Not for everyone, darn it! My doctor wants me to cut way back on my carb intake until my next blood test near the end of next month. It has been a real drag so far!

 

Doctor smockter doesn't he have enough blood of his own that he wants to take yours?

[Marblehead]

Doctor smockter doesn't he have enough blood of his own that he wants to take yours?

 

Hehehe. I guess he is part vampire.

[Aaron]

If the purpose of life is to survive and human's are part of nature ... which they are as it is arrogant to think otherwise ... then what part of survival is served by the development of Taoism?

 

 

I would agree with Marblehead, that when one practices what's been taught in the Tao Teh Ching that it helps us to live longer and healthier lives. We sometimes are tricked into believing that spirituality is real, when it isn't. Seeking a purpose where there isn't any is one of the greatest mistakes we make as humans. That isn't to say that we shouldn't be spiritual, but rather that we need to understand spirituality for what it is, a tool for understanding the underlying phenomena of nature that we cannot (or couldn't at one time) completely understand.

 

The fact is survival requires understanding. It requires knowing what to do when it needs to be done. When we don't know, then we start to worry, because that lack of knowledge means that something might occur that will impact our survival.

 

Bob, Bill, and Joe each toss a small stick into the campfire and shortly after catch a fish. They believe that somehow this action has effected nature and caused them to catch fish. From that point on they throw a stick into the campfire believing that it will lead to them catching more fish. It works fine for a few months, then Andy comes along and throws a stick into the fire, only it's a different type of fish and that night the river dries up and the fish are gone. Apparently Andy has somehow caused the river to dry up and from that point on you cannot throw that type of stick into the fire... we wont even mention what happens to poor old Andy.

 

This is what I'm talking about when I say we apply human characteristics to nature. It is our desire to explain the unexplainable, to define the undefinable, that causes us to come up with answers where they aren't needed. The truth of the matter is, regardless of whether you are enlightened or not, the goal of life is stay alive until you finally die, nothing more. If one happens to reach some kind of awareness along the way, kudos, hopefully it will help them to not complicate the simplicity so much.

 

Aaron

Edited June 25, 2011 by Twinner

[Apech]

I would agree with Marblehead, that when one practices what's been taught in the Tao Teh Ching that it helps us to live longer and healthier lives. We sometimes are tricked into believing that spirituality is real, when it isn't. Seeking a purpose where there isn't any is one of the greatest mistakes we make as humans. That isn't to say that we shouldn't be spiritual, but rather that we need to understand spirituality for what it is, a tool for understanding the underlying phenomena of nature that we cannot (or couldn't at one time) completely understand.

 

The fact is survival requires understanding. It requires knowing what to do when it needs to be done. When we don't know, then we start to worry, because that lack of knowledge means that something might occur that will impact our survival.

 

Bob, Bill, and Joe each toss a small stick into the campfire and shortly after catch a fish. They believe that somehow this action has effected nature and caused them to catch fish. From that point on they throw a stick into the campfire believing that it will lead to them catching more fish. It works fine for a few months, then Andy comes along and throws a stick into the fire, only it's a different type of fish and that night the river dries up and the fish are gone. Apparently Andy has somehow caused the river to dry up and from that point on you cannot throw that type of stick into the fire... we wont even mention what happens to poor old Andy.

 

This is what I'm talking about when I say we apply human characteristics to nature. It is our desire to explain the unexplainable, to define the undefinable, that causes us to come up with answers where they aren't needed. The truth of the matter is, regardless of whether you are enlightened or not, the goal of life is stay alive until you finally die, nothing more. If one happens to reach some kind of awareness along the way, kudos, hopefully it will help them to not complicate the simplicity so much.

 

Aaron

 

Your example with the sticks in the fire sounds to me more like superstition than spirituality. If you impute a relation between an action and a result which doesn't exist then I would call this superstition. Spirituality on the other hand suggests real relationships between events and results beyond that which is immediately apparent or perhaps beyond the mundane.

 

To suggest that life is all about survival seems to beg the question - survive for what? Just to exist? Our efforts to understand and become wiser or to develop Te are not just so that we can exist - but so that we can live in a better way. We don't have to explain if or why the universe may want us to become wiser or more sage like but if we take up the Taoist way then we automatically accept that somehow this is the way. Life stops being just about surviving to the next meal but about something greater and better. We don't have to anthropomorphize nature to say this... in fact I don't think we even have to say why it is so ... its part of mystery ...maybe.

Edited June 25, 2011 by Apech
typos

[Stigweard]

Your example with the sticks in the fire sounds to me more like superstition than spirituality. If you impute a relation between an action and a result which doesn't exist then I would call this superstition. Spirituality on the other hand suggests real relationships between events and results beyond that which is immediately apparent or perhaps beyond the mundane.

 

To suggest that life is all about survival seems to beg the question - survive for what? Just to exist? Our efforts to understand and become wiser or to develop Te are not just so that we can exist - but so that we can live in a better way. We don't have to explain if or why the universe may want us to become wiser or more sage like but if we take up the Taoist way then we automatically accept that somehow this is the way. Life stops being just about surviving to the next meal but about something greater and better. We don't have to anthropomorphize nature to say this... in fact I don't think we even have to say why it is so ... its part of mystery ...maybe.

 

Agreed

 

Also to add to the discussion is the Daoist "model" of the Hun and Po spirits. According to the ontology the human being is a composite soul, meaning that we actually comprise of 3 Hun souls and 7 Po souls -- sanhunqipo 三魂七魄.

 

The yin Po souls are said to be the more animalistic side of our nature that are concerned with simple organic survival and the satisfaction of base desires. At death it is said the the Po souls stay with the body and return to the earth.

 

The yang Hun souls are the "finer spirits" that give flight to humanities higher aspirations. Often associated with a type of "higher self" that transcends reincarnation, the Hun souls leave the body at death to continue the journey of the soul(s).

 

See also: A question about the Hun and the Po

 

So to bring this to a personal level (because after all to ask the question "is there a purpose to nature?" is synonymously asking "do I have a purpose?") we must include the idea that, beyond the fact that nature subsists merely for organic survival, there is a higher, dare I say it, spiritual frequency of life.

 

So the question becomes more complex: What is our organic/earthly purpose and what is our spiritual/heavenly purpose? Are they one and the same? Do we have to find the balance between them? Do we have to elevate the earthly purpose to become heavenly?

[Marblehead]

Hi Stig,

 

You sure do ask a lot of questions. Hehehe.

 

(And you also enjoy causing life to appear way too complex. Hehehe.)

 

No, I have no answers - only my understandings.

 

Tzujan happens.

[zerostao]

I would agree with Marblehead, that when one practices what's been taught in the Tao Teh Ching that it helps us to live longer and healthier lives. We sometimes are tricked into believing that spirituality is real, when it isn't.

 

there is more to the Tao than the TTC, no? Lao Tzu did not invent the Tao but he understood it nicely.

THERE IS NO KEYSER SOZE!!! where is the emotocon with the devil horns? (insert evil laugh here)

who tricked who?

outro

edit> tzujan does happen each day, every day, all day

shen also happens each day, every day, all day

Edited June 25, 2011 by zerostao

[suninmyeyes]

The closest it gets to being able to explain natures purpose would be something like (IMO)expression through creation and destruction.

Our purpose is exactly whatever one does .So if a person feels s/he needs to balance earthly and heavenly purpose or find enlightemnt or watch tv all day long this is exactly how nature wants to express herself .Everything is important.

As nature is multidimensional on some level we appear to exist and have this seemingly complicated life ,but on the other more cosmic level maybe we are just like electrons or blood cells.

For me here comes the question about the free will,which (however paradoxical it sounds)it seems to exist and not exist at the same time(and time should be underlined here as this is the key to the paradox).

Survival seems to me just one aspect of nature .

Edited June 25, 2011 by suninmyeyes

[Stigweard]

Hi Stig,

 

You sure do ask a lot of questions. Hehehe.

 

(And you also enjoy causing life to appear way too complex. Hehehe.)

 

No, I have no answers - only my understandings.

 

Tzujan happens.

Hehehe ... no, no ... just inputting some stimulation

[Marblehead]

Hehehe ... no, no ... just inputting some stimulation

 

I guess those were called 'food for thought' then.

 

I like that last word of yours but I usually use it in a totally different context.

[Stigweard]

I guess those were called 'food for thought' then.

 

I like that last word of yours but I usually use it in a totally different context.

Bahahaha ... the nostalgic memories of a lost youth must be entertaining for an old man yes ??