Dao is not just about change

[Stigweard]

True it is that Dao is the continuous unfolding and transformation of changing phenomena. In this it is very akin to the Buddhist dependent origination in that, because every phenomena is dependent upon the previous manifestation, no one thing can be considered "it's own thing".

 

Now I am in no way trying to establish superior Daoist ontology, however in my learning the Daoist view of incessant change includes the observation that changing phenomena has a "way" about it. Meaning that there is a pattern, rhythm or harmonic to how life evolves and changes.

 

A pattern that seems to be prevalent in all life from the smallest to the largest of manifestations:

 

 

 

Observe the Taijitu and the Bagua:

 

 

The intercourse of Yin and Yang reveals not only incessant change but it also reveals the way in which it changes. The light energy rises until it reaches its zenith and then it will revert to the dark energy and sink until it reaches its nadir.

 

This basic binary harmonic is extended further into the Wuxing or Five Phases:

 

 

And is extended further into the Bagua and 64 phases of the I Ching.

 

 

So...

 

Being one with Dao isn't just about embracing change inherent in all phenomena, it is also about being perfectly in tune with the way in which that change unfolds. Which in my mind brings Dao wonderfully back to the reality of the recurring here and now moment.

 

[Immortal4life]

That was a cool post. +1

[Vajrahridaya]

True it is that Dao is the continuous unfolding and transformation of changing phenomena. In this it is very akin to the Buddhist dependent origination in that, because every phenomena is dependent upon the previous manifestation, no one thing can be considered "it's own thing".

 

Now I am in no way trying to establish superior Daoist ontology, however in my learning the Daoist view of incessant change includes the observation that changing phenomena has a "way" about it. Meaning that there is a pattern, rhythm or harmonic to how life evolves and changes.

 

This is called, "Dharmakaya", or "Tathagatagarbha" in Buddhism. In Dzogchen, it's called, "Samantabhadra". Which is basically the recognition that makes the state of mind, "all good" with everything, and not in that sense where one is just passive or dismissive, but rather just seeing the pattern of the creative matrix in a way that self liberates one in every moment. Anyway... yes, we see this as well. It's also called, "spanda" in Sanskrit, meaning, "creative pulsation." But, in Buddhism, we don't describe this as having a starting point of primal origin, or cosmic beginning, not even with the big bang. It's just a beginningless cycling from higher vibration to lower density, to higher vibration to lower density, described in much the way you just did, with lots of nuance having to do with a multi-dimensional description of the cosmos. In Buddhism it's of course impersonal, yet the source of all persons, the Vedantin equivalent would be Brahman, except that Brahman has a will of it's own and truly self exists beyond an us, while in Buddhism one can't even say that the sum of everything equals an ultimate Self existence, but it's rather all just the play of the energy of sentient beings.

 

Anyway, interesting post.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

[Jetsun]

Nice post, can anyone explain to me the meaning of the spot of yang in the middle of the yin and the spot of yin in the middle of the yang? I'm sure I have heard it explained before but I can't remember it's meaning.

[Vajrahridaya]

Nice post, can anyone explain to me the meaning of the spot of yang in the middle of the yin and the spot of yin in the middle of the yang? I'm sure I have heard it explained before but I can't remember it's meaning.

 

Both are in each other.

[Stigweard]

This is called, "Dharmakaya", or "Tathagatagarbha" in Buddhism. In Dzogchen, it's called, "Samantabhadra". Which is basically the recognition that makes the state of mind, "all good" with everything, and not in that sense where one is just passive or dismissive, but rather just seeing the pattern of the creative matrix in a way that self liberates one in every moment. Anyway... yes, we see this as well. It's also called, "spanda" in Sanskrit, meaning, "creative pulsation." But, in Buddhism, we don't describe this as having a starting point of primal origin, or cosmic beginning, not even with the big bang. It's just a beginningless cycling from higher vibration to lower density, to higher vibration to lower density, described in much the way you just did, with lots of nuance having to do with a multi-dimensional description of the cosmos. In Buddhism it's of course impersonal, yet the source of all persons, the Vedantin equivalent would be Brahman, except that Brahman has a will of it's own and truly self exists beyond an us, while in Buddhism one can't even say that the sum of everything equals an ultimate Self existence, but it's rather all just the play of the energy of sentient beings.

 

Anyway, interesting post.

Cheers bud, thought you chaps would have had something along the same lines. Don't know about Dharmakaya(??), but I can groove with Spanda:

 

Spanda

Spanda is a Sanskrit term for the subtle creative pulse of the universe as it manifests into the dynamism of living form. Spanda can be translated to mean vibration, movement, or motion, referring to waves of activity issuing forth from an unseen Source of spontaneous expression. On a more personal level, spanda refers to consciousness as it orients through thought and intention to organize into authentic action. You may experience spanda as a desire to live according to your own innermost urging, act in line with your interest, follow your curiosity, and attend to your body's natural rhythms as they harmonize within the grander scale of natural life seasons and cycles.

Living in a way that keeps us connected to our core beliefs and desires brings health, stamina, and joy. When we lose our creative "spark" or spanda, disconnecting from our own personal expression of vitality, we lose energy, focus, and a sense of well-being and may eventually fall ill. Connecting with what drives us, feeling that presence in our bodies, is also when we are most aligned with the natural spontaneity that defines life processes.

Yoga practice encourages this conscious connection. Through yoga we learn to listen attentively to our own inner guidance as well as work creatively with the archetypal forms and timeless instructions passed down through the millennia.

Spanda Yoga - The Yoga of Movement - What is Spanda?.

 

Actually I would say that Spanda, used in this sense, is a close synonym to Dao-De (which is a traditional usage term) ... the unseen rhythm and the way we express it.

 

See ... we are starting to learn each others language hehehehe

 

 

Nice post, can anyone explain to me the meaning of the spot of yang in the middle of the yin and the spot of yin in the middle of the yang? I'm sure I have heard it explained before but I can't remember it's meaning.

Simple explanation: When you are really hot what do you look for? The cool of a shady tree right? And when you are really cold what do you look for? The warmth of a fire right?

 

It means when things reach their zenith or nadir they naturally start seeking the opposite; or the extreme of a cycle creates or gives birth the opposite end of the polarity.

 

[Marblehead]

... however in my learning the Daoist view of incessant change includes the observation that changing phenomena has a "way" about it. Meaning that there is a pattern, rhythm or harmonic to how life evolves and changes.

 

Yeah. That's TzuJan. (The processes of Dao.)

 

 

Also to Jetsun, the symbol also indicates that no matter how deep we go into one polarity of Chi (Yin of Yang)(Restive and Active) there is always a way of returning to a more balanced condition.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Another note of relevance to this would be the fibonacci formula. This forumula was actually the basis used by ancient Egyptians to build all of their temples because it is the way that life is created in nature. This pattern takes the number before it to create the new number. Simply: 0+1=1, 1+1=2, 1+2=3, 2+3=5, 3+5=8, 8+5=13, 5+13=18, and on and on and on. This way, whatever is made is balanced, and is why leaves don't pull over stems, and all bodies are balanced.

 

There's a good explanation of it near the end of this video

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5xSsVyngbU&feature=related

[doc benway]

Nice post Stig.

 

Nice post, can anyone explain to me the meaning of the spot of yang in the middle of the yin and the spot of yin in the middle of the yang? I'm sure I have heard it explained before but I can't remember it's meaning.

The other aspect is mutual arising.

Opposites define each other.

Without ugliness, you would have no concept of beauty.

Without heat, there would be no knowledge of cold.

The Taiji diagram itself implies this but the black within white and white within black takes it a step further for me.

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[doc benway]

Nice discourse on Ziran, Jack.

 

According to my teacher, ziran 自然 is one of the qualities that should be expressed in the practice of Taijquan forms, along with song 鬆, and jing 靜.

 

PS I've also been exploring and enjoying the parallels in Daoist and Buddhist concepts lately. One of the most difficult limitations being, of course, that I am dependent on translations of Pali, Sanskrit, and Chinese. I'm currently reading Mind Beyond Death by Dzogchen Ponlop and The Wisdom Of Lao Tse by Yun Lintang. Great books and full of such parallels

Edited June 20, 2011 by steve f

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[gendao]

Nice post, can anyone explain to me the meaning of the spot of yang in the middle of the yin and the spot of yin in the middle of the yang? I'm sure I have heard it explained before but I can't remember it's meaning.

One guess of mine is that they symbolize the post-Heaven manifest world where ☰ Qián (Heaven) & ☷ Kūn (Earth) have mixed to form ☲ Lí (Fire) & ☵ Kǎn (Water). So now there is a little yin in the yang (☲) and vice-versa (☵).

 

You can thus see how the Taiji symbol basically visually depicts our post-Heaven state as the combination of ☲ & ☵:

Neidan is thus the process of reversing this descension back to the pre-Heaven state of pure Heaven (☰). To do this, the yang bit is extracted from ☵ to replace the yin bit in ☲ - resulting back in pure ☰.

Edited June 20, 2011 by vortex

[Vajrahridaya]

 

It means when things reach their zenith or nadir they naturally start seeking the opposite; or the extreme of a cycle creates or gives birth the opposite end of the polarity.

 

 

Yes, there is a yogic practice from the Shiva Sutras that say that in an extreme moment of emotional or physical pain, one can find bliss and peace with ease if you align your mind towards that recognition. Because of the extreme potency of that energy, it's actually a pathway to higher realization, if utilized as such.

[mYTHmAKER]

Nice post, can anyone explain to me the meaning of the spot of yang in the middle of the yin and the spot of yin in the middle of the yang? I'm sure I have heard it explained before but I can't remember it's meaning.

 

Nothing is 100% yin or 100% yang

As soon as yin gets to 100% it flips and becomes yang

The small circles represent the yin in yang and the yang in yin

The circle is divided into 2 shapes divided by an s curve.

if you follow one shape - yin- from it's tail to where it becomes big and round

you see the opposite shape - yang - at it's smallest - the tail and it too grows to its max until it becomes yin.

[Vajrahridaya]

Cheers bud, thought you chaps would have had something along the same lines. Don't know about Dharmakaya(??), but I can groove with Spanda:

 

Cool explanation of Spanda. From a Buddhist perspective, the "unseen source" would just be beginningless time, or also infinite potentiality based on the fact of no beginning.

 

Here's a couple dictionary definitions of "Dharmakaya"...

 

4. 1. Dharmakaya (body of the great order); the true nature of the Buddha, which is identical with reality, the essential laws of the universe. Equal to the laws of physics. The Dharmakaya is the experience of the unity of the laws of physics. It represents the "law" (dharma), the teaching expounded by the Buddha.

 

5. The Experience is timeless, permanent, devoid of characteristics and free from duality. It is the spiritual body of the buddhas, their true nature, which all buddhas have in common. Various names are applied to the Dharmakaya depending on whether it is being taken as the true nature of being (dharmata, dharmadhatu, tathata, bhutatathata, shunyata, alaya-vijnana) or as the true nature of the buddhas (buddhata, buddha-nature, tathagatagarbha).

 

7. The Dharmakaya (Jap., hosshin) is consciousness experienced as unified existence (laws of physics). The experience is beyond all concepts, and is characterized by completion and perfection, out of which all mental forms arise.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

Also, again this is related to "Wuji" which in Buddhism would be the unlimited potential for things to manifest through cause and effect that are inherently empty. "Emptiness," which is called the Great Mother in Vajrayana and the Great Female in Taoism.

 

Thanks Jack for your additions. Very, very, interesting!

[zerostao]

the 8 trigrams are the 8 forces of nature. i havnt spoke much of the I ching on this thread. but i think, most realize that the trigrams also represent change.

what i want to mention here briefly is, change is not something imposed upon it but it is a product of self-generation.

[Marblehead]

I want to bring this up: I did a search on Ziran in Taoism a couple days ago and here is what came up...

 

Very excellent.

 

Thanks for taking the time to do that.

[Stigweard]

Another note of relevance to this would be the fibonacci formula. This forumula was actually the basis used by ancient Egyptians to build all of their temples because it is the way that life is created in nature. This pattern takes the number before it to create the new number. Simply: 0+1=1, 1+1=2, 1+2=3, 2+3=5, 3+5=8, 8+5=13, 5+13=18, and on and on and on. This way, whatever is made is balanced, and is why leaves don't pull over stems, and all bodies are balanced.

 

There's a good explanation of it near the end of this video

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5xSsVyngbU&feature=related

Actually I agree very much with this. For this reason I have devoted several years correlating measurements of Phi with the traditional Yang family Taijichuan. The revelations have been quite astounding and have correspondingly improved both my form and my capacity to teach my students.

[Stigweard]

Yeah. That's TzuJan. (The processes of Dao.)

 

 

Also to Jetsun, the symbol also indicates that no matter how deep we go into one polarity of Chi (Yin of Yang)(Restive and Active) there is always a way of returning to a more balanced condition.

Now is a good moment to add that Ziran/TzuJan is a term also used for "spontaneous combustion"

[Stigweard]

Great observation guys!

 

....

Absolutely brilliant Simple_Jack ... great work !!! Huzzah !!!!

 

 

Actually a grateful HUZZAH to every one, what a great discussion so far.

 

[Marblehead]

Now is a good moment to add that Ziran/TzuJan is a term also used for "spontaneous combustion"

 

Hehehe.

 

I guess I am one of few who use the word "Tzujan" instead of "Ziran". The only difference between the two words that I can see is that Tzujan is normally used in a universal sense whereas Ziran is used mostly in an individual sense. Perhaps there is a more distinctive difference but I am not aware of it.

 

Ah!, spontaneous combustion. I guess it could happen. Well, come to think about it, it has actually happened here on the forum a few times. Hehehe.