Taoist Philosophy - Conversations I

[Marblehead]

Confucius was going west to give his books to the Chou Imperial Archives. And Tselu thought and said to him, “I have heard that there is a keeper of the archives at (the capital) Chou. His name is Lao Tan. He has retired and is living at his home. If you want to entrust your books for safe-keeping, why don’t you go and give them to him?”

“Good”, said Confucius.

So Confucius went to see Lao Tan and Lao Tan would not accept the books. Confucius spread the Twelve Classics before him, and tried to explain what he had done. Before Confucius had finished, Lao Tan interrupted him saying, “You are trying to cover too much material. Tell me the essence of your ideas.”

“The essence is in the teachings of humanity and justice”, said Confucius.

“May I ask, are humanity and justice a part of the nature of man?”

“Yes”, replied Confucius. “A gentleman’s character is not complete without the principle of humanity, and his life is not correct if he does not follow the principle of justice. Humanity and justice are truly a part of the nature of man. What else can they be?”

“May I ask what you mean by humanity and justice?” said Lao Tan.

“To share the happiness with others and to love all mankind without partiality - this is the essence of humanity and justice.”

“Alas!” replied Lao Tan. “You talk like the latter-day prophets. Isn’t it abstruse to talk of love for all mankind? Impartiality implies the recognition of partiality (for individuals). If you want the world to find again its lost shepherd, remember that there is already a constant law governing Heaven and Earth, the sun and the moon are shining in the sky, the constellations are in their proper places, and the fowl of the air and the beasts of the Earth already thrive in flocks and herds, and trees already grow and prosper. Why don’t you just follow the natural bent of your character and the laws of Tao? Why do you create such a commotion, holding the banner of humanity and justice like one who has lost his son and is beating a drum to look for him? Alas! I am afraid you are disturbing the nature of man.”

Edited March 2, 2013 by Marblehead

[mYTHmAKER]

I.

 

Confucius was going west to give his books to the Chou Imperial Archives. And Tselu thought and said to him, "I have heard that there is a keeper of the archives at (the capital) Chou. His name is Lao Tan. He has retired and is living at his home. If you want to entrust your books for safe-keeping, why don't you go and give them to him?"

 

"Good", said Confucius.

 

So Confucius went to see Lao Tan and Lao Tan would not accept the books. Confucius spread the Twelve Classics before him, and tried to explain what he had done. Before Confucius had finished, Lao Tan interrupted him saying, "You are trying to cover too much material. Tell me the essence of your ideas."

 

"The essence is in the teachings of humanity and justice", said Confucius.

 

"May I ask, are humanity and justice a part of the nature of man?"

 

"Yes", replied Confucius. "A gentleman's character is not complete without the principle of humanity, and his life is not correct if he does not follow the principle of justice. Humanity and justice are truly a part of the nature of man. What else can they be?"

 

"May I ask what you mean by humanity and justice?" said Lao Tan.

 

"To share the happiness with others and to love all mankind without partiality - this is the essence of humanity and justice."

 

"Alas!" replied Lao Tan. "You talk like the latter-day prophets. Isn't it abstruse to talk of love for all mankind? Impartiality implies the recognition of partiality (for individuals). If you want the world to find again its lost shepherd, remember that there is already a constant law governing Heaven and Earth, the sun and the moon are shining in the sky, the constellations are in their proper places, and the fowl of the air and the beasts of the Earth already thrive in flocks and herds, and trees already grow and prosper. Why don't you just follow the natural bent of your character and the laws of Tao? Why do you create such a commotion, holding the banner of humanity and justice like one who has lost his son and is beating a drum to look for him? Alas! I am afraid you are disturbing the nature of man."

 

[strawdog65]

Follow what's most natural for your character.

 

Harmony is not always the easiest path.

[Marblehead]

Follow what's most natural for your character.

 

Harmony is not always the easiest path.

 

Yeah, I often talk about harmony but I don't recall ever suggesting that attaining it is easy.

[MassTaoism]

Yeah, I often talk about harmony but I don't recall ever suggesting that attaining it is easy.

 

Lovely piece, Marblehead. You truly are quite the being. If I may ask, was that based off of actual events, or what that a story that you created on your own? Just wondering.

[Marblehead]

Lovely piece, Marblehead. You truly are quite the being. If I may ask, was that based off of actual events, or what that a story that you created on your own? Just wondering.

 

Hi MassTaoism,

 

That is from Chuang Tzu. It is an imaginary conversation between Confucius and Lao Tzu which probably never happened in reality.

 

Chuang Tzu liked to make up stories in order to present a concept.

 

This translation, as well as the remaining 'conversations' I will be presenting is from Lin Yutang in his "The Wisdom of Laotse".

 

The only credit I take is posting it for others to read.

[manitou]

[Otis]

Good share, Marblehead.

 

I was just thinking what a misbegotten notion "fairness" was. That we are taught as children that the world is fair, and that we're supposed to be fair. But of course, when others do us wrong, our fairness doctrines justify our own poor choices.

 

"Don't sh!t where you eat" makes sense to me, as does the Golden Rule. These are reflections of (what I see as) the natural flow of actions and consequences. But the universe being "fair" suggests some cosmic retribution scheme that just doesn't fit what I see in the world.

[Marblehead]

Good share, Marblehead.

 

I was just thinking what a misbegotten notion "fairness" was. That we are taught as children that the world is fair, and that we're supposed to be fair. But of course, when others do us wrong, our fairness doctrines justify our own poor choices.

 

"Don't sh!t where you eat" makes sense to me, as does the Golden Rule. These are reflections of (what I see as) the natural flow of actions and consequences. But the universe being "fair" suggests some cosmic retribution scheme that just doesn't fit what I see in the world.

 

Yeah, fairness. The good guys always win and they all wear white hats.

 

What a concept - fairness. It's all subjective - fairness just doesn't fit into nature objectively.