Question about Healing Sounds

[Tao-Newbie]

Hi everyone!

 

I had a question about the healing sounds presented in Mantak Chia's books. I've heard a lot of bad stuff about Mantak Chia, and Gary Clyman insists that Mantak is a fraud and said he has no idea where Mantak got the healing sounds stuff. The reason I'm asking is because I have a lot of heat in the liver, gall bladder, and lungs. Acupuncture is bringing it out, along with herbs, and I just did a 30 day raw milk fast as well. This helps (did it last year), but it seems most of the heat is emotional. I was hoping that the healing sounds presented by Mantak Chia in his books works, because I need to find a way to cool those organs. Can't afford constant acupuncture treatments at this point. Any insights?

[henro]

I've looked at Mantak Chia's stuff, and a little bit of Clyman's, and both kind of turned me off for different reasons. . . I certainly didn't feel that Clyman had any authority over Chia or should be passing judgement about another qigong teacher's practices.

 

 

That being said, the Healing Sounds meditation (and many others presented by Chia) show up in other lineages, specifically Hua Ching Ni's. We learned the healing sounds in my medical qigong classes at Yo San.

Edited June 23, 2011 by robmix

[Sloppy Zhang]

While I don't profess to be an expert on either one, I've seen enough that makes me think that neither one are teaching the most complete mixture of stuff around (at least from my POV), but that does not take away from some of the things they do have which might work. A diamond covered in mud is still a diamond.

 

Anyway, a variety of healing sounds can be found in and are used by many different traditions. If you feel that something is working, keep doing it. Pay attention to your body, stop if something starts to feel wrong, and be wary of adopting something that starts to throw off your system too much.

 

But if you like what you've got, don't let detractors make you stop if it is working for you.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[neiye]

Hi,

 

You could get this book:

 

My link

 

it presents healing sounds and gentle movements. As far as my experience goes, it works; be sure to do them daily.

 

Take care

neiye

[C T]

great video series on Youtube on Tibetan sound healing by Tenzin Wangyal - introduction here:

[RiverSnake]

http://www.amazon.com/Tibetan-Sound-Healing-Practices-Obstacles/dp/1604070951/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1308809675&sr=1-3

 

I have read many books by this author and he always gives top quality material, his book on healing sounds may interest you. Enjoy.

[Tao-Newbie]

Thanks for the replies!

 

Those books and links look interesting, although I'm specifically looking for ways to cool the organs. Have any of you used Mantak's healing sounds and been able to verify they cool the organs? Is that a legitimate practice? I didn't want to start doing something until I know it works, given all the controversy. It's very hard to find regular time to practice as it is, given my crazy schedule, so I'm really looking to first verify whether it's an actual, true practice and not something Mantak Chia made up. If it's legit, I'll make time for it. I just didn't want to start devoting time to something only to discover it's not even a legitimate thing and therefore end up wasting time I don't have when it doesn't work.

[neiye]

Hi,

 

I don't see any reason why M.Chia's teachings about healing sounds could be a fraud. You can find the same sounds taught in other systems; only the movements associated may vary. If you already have M.Chia's book then go for it. If not the one I recommended, is quite simple, easy to work with and is a legit teaching.

 

neiye

[C T]

Thanks for the replies!

 

Those books and links look interesting, although I'm specifically looking for ways to cool the organs. Have any of you used Mantak's healing sounds and been able to verify they cool the organs? Is that a legitimate practice? I didn't want to start doing something until I know it works, given all the controversy. It's very hard to find regular time to practice as it is, given my crazy schedule, so I'm really looking to first verify whether it's an actual, true practice and not something Mantak Chia made up. If it's legit, I'll make time for it. I just didn't want to start devoting time to something only to discover it's not even a legitimate thing and therefore end up wasting time I don't have when it doesn't work.

If you need a healing method that has been proven to address the condition, i'd suggest acupuncture.

 

With organ malfunction, or ones that require tonifying, what good is it to ask which is a legit practice and which is not? That is simply fixating on a mistaken course of action, as far as i can see. If its me, i would look to cure the malady with an already proven system. I would also look into dietary patterns before taking the matter any further. Most times a combination of stress and lack of proper diet would be the simple causes. If you're into contemplative practices, that would address the stress part.

 

If its the innermost energy body where the heat is stagnated, then i think any help given here, even if its the right one, should not be self-administered. You would be best served to seek in-person professional guidance if this is the case.

 

Traditionally, Sound healing is useful for tuning the innermost energy body blockages, although currently it appears to be much sought after as a general purpose feel-good/stress busting service incorporated in most alternative therapeutic/massage centers.

 

Here is a TCM/Acupuncture guide - http://www.yinyanghouse.com/theory/chinese/liver_meridian_disharmonies

 

 

All the best!

Edited June 23, 2011 by CowTao

[VCraigP]

Thanks for the replies!

 

Those books and links look interesting, although I'm specifically looking for ways to cool the organs. Have any of you used Mantak's healing sounds and been able to verify they cool the organs? Is that a legitimate practice? I didn't want to start doing something until I know it works, given all the controversy. It's very hard to find regular time to practice as it is, given my crazy schedule, so I'm really looking to first verify whether it's an actual, true practice and not something Mantak Chia made up. If it's legit, I'll make time for it. I just didn't want to start devoting time to something only to discover it's not even a legitimate thing and therefore end up wasting time I don't have when it doesn't work.

 

Ultimately it is up to you to pursue a course of action which might help. So far only one person has commented with any personal experience. Your experience is what really matters.

 

Six healing sounds from M.Chia are IMO coming from a very clear history of Tao practice. Working with the organs and sounds has many many examples to find in China.

 

I like M.Winn's explanation that qigong is truly about learning to communicate with the life force.

 

I have used the healing sounds extensively in the past and had profound experience with them. I don't think the issue of whether or not Chia's whole body of work is worthwhile applies here. This is a simple practice to get you in touch with your organs and to help move stagnant energy.

 

I believe they can work. Will they work for everyone? Will they work for you? No one but you can answer this.

 

I vote for doing the simple healing sounds as taught in the Healing Tao system. It is part of the basic training which includes the inner smile meditation. In my experience this is also an effective way to connect with your body, bit by bit, and with your organs. Practice of the inner smile will help make six healing sounds more effective.

 

My opinion.

 

I am a certified instructor in this system (1993), but haven't taught much.

 

Good luck.

 

PS - I always thought it would be interesting to go to a TCM doc for pulse/tongue diagnosis and then do extensive healing sounds practice for a time then return to see if the doc would note any change. Maybe you can do this experiment?

 

Craig

[gendao]

I've recently come to find that the best way to detox your organs and open their corresponding meridians may be to...relax your organs.

 

And if your organs are not relaxed...then all the "external" methods like acupuncture/pressure or making healing sounds will only be of limited use. But if you can relax your organs, these "supporting" methods like those will be much more effective and perhaps not even necessary anymore...(as you could directly work with your organs now).

 

Of course, I've only been able (I believe) to start relaxing my organs after nearly 2 years of meditation. So, it might be a more powerful, but also a more advanced ability. And those who can't do it yet (probably the vast majority of laymen) may still have to rely upon the easier, lesser (& less effective) methods for now...

 

/\

Edited June 23, 2011 by vortex

[henro]

Thanks for the replies!

 

Those books and links look interesting, although I'm specifically looking for ways to cool the organs. Have any of you used Mantak's healing sounds and been able to verify they cool the organs? Is that a legitimate practice? I didn't want to start doing something until I know it works, given all the controversy. It's very hard to find regular time to practice as it is, given my crazy schedule, so I'm really looking to first verify whether it's an actual, true practice and not something Mantak Chia made up. If it's legit, I'll make time for it. I just didn't want to start devoting time to something only to discover it's not even a legitimate thing and therefore end up wasting time I don't have when it doesn't work.

 

The controversy with Chia seems to stem from two trains of thought - the first being that his system is a conglomeration of many practices, and for some, where did these practices come from ? The second issue, and probably the most written about, is the injury some people have caused themselves by reading books about Taoist sexual practices, and attempting these practices without a teacher or doing any of the basic foundation work. I don't think either of these issues invalidates Chia's system as a whole or any of the individual practices, especially where those practices existence and effectiveness can be verified elsewhere.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Healing sounds go back to the Yellow Emperor. There seems to be different methods of using them however.

[dawei]

Hi everyone!

 

I had a question about the healing sounds presented in Mantak Chia's books. I've heard a lot of bad stuff about Mantak Chia, and Gary Clyman insists that Mantak is a fraud and said he has no idea where Mantak got the healing sounds stuff. The reason I'm asking is because I have a lot of heat in the liver, gall bladder, and lungs. Acupuncture is bringing it out, along with herbs, and I just did a 30 day raw milk fast as well. This helps (did it last year), but it seems most of the heat is emotional. I was hoping that the healing sounds presented by Mantak Chia in his books works, because I need to find a way to cool those organs. Can't afford constant acupuncture treatments at this point. Any insights?

As a few have suggested, the sounds are meant to break up stagnation or blockage; My question would be, do you even understand this and how are you ultimately moving that out of the area? An external Qigong practitioner can take it "out" but if your doing it yourself, you have to do more than just 'break it up'. So I think the idea of using sounds alone is not well understood. If you see Chia's book, he couples the inner smile with it; that is the tonifying aspect to the sound purging aspect; sound alone is missing the point. That's how people get his system or any system wrong in practice and hurt themself further. And these sounds he shares are the basic sounds; there are chronic level sounds as well (ie: for chronic stagnation) but he does not share those.

 

Since you think the issue is heat, why are you not asking how to reduce excess heat in these areas? The acupuncturist should easily be able to advise some foods or teas. As an example: Mulberry leaf is good to clear lung and liver heat. Chrysanthemum flower is a very popular tea in china and is a 'cooling tea'. Bitter teas also clear the heat and are good for the heart (realize the heart is called the supreme controller and therefore has an influence on all the body systems); The Lotus root is good for this and is good to mix with the chrysanthemum to balance the taste. In that way, you get double cooling as well.

Edited June 23, 2011 by dawei

[C T]

 

Since you think the issue is heat, why are you not asking how to reduce excess heat in these areas? The acupuncturist should easily be able to advise some foods or teas. As an example: Mulberry leaf is good to clear lung and liver heat. Chrysanthemum flower is a very popular tea in china and is a 'cooling tea'. Bitter teas also clear the heat and are good for the heart (realize the heart is called the supreme controller and therefore has an influence on all the body systems); The Lotus root is good for this and is good to mix with the chrysanthemum to balance the taste. In that way, you get double cooling as well.

Sound advice above.

 

 

Great fan of all foods bitter. Best thing for ridding the blood of toxins.

My favs are watercress and bitter melon.

 

For cooling, i like to make clear soups with winter melon (available exclusively in Asian food marts, but if seeds can be bought, its an easy enough fruit to grow). Here is a handy soup recipe that combines winter melon with chinese red dates and goji berries: http://www.penangfaces.chanlilian.net/cheap-good-and-nutritious-chinese-soup/

 

 

 

Additional info: Bitter melon is claimed to contain compounds that are of great benefit to (type 2) diabetics.

Related article here: http://diabetes.about.com/b/2008/03/26/can-bitter-melon-really-help-type-2-diabetes.htm

[dawei]

Bitter melon is claimed to contain compounds that are of great benefit to (type 2) diabetics.

Related article here: [/i] http://diabetes.about.com/b/2008/03/26/can-bitter-melon-really-help-type-2-diabetes.htm

That is truly a great dish but hard to find in the US. When in China, this is easy to find and plentiful to eat.

[Tao-Newbie]

Since there are so many replies, I won't write a novel addressing each one. Thanks again to everyone who gave advice. There are a few points I need to address though, apparently. Dawei wrote:

 

As a few have suggested, the sounds are meant to break up stagnation or blockage; My question would be, do you even understand this and how are you ultimately moving that out of the area?

 

I'm moving out of that area, as you put it, because I didn't inquire about breaking up blockages. I was specifically looking to expel heat.

 

An external Qigong practitioner can take it "out" but if your doing it yourself, you have to do more than just 'break it up'. So I think the idea of using sounds alone is not well understood. If you see Chia's book, he couples the inner smile with it; that is the tonifying aspect to the sound purging aspect; sound alone is missing the point. That's how people get his system or any system wrong in practice and hurt themself further. And these sounds he shares are the basic sounds; there are chronic level sounds as well (ie: for chronic stagnation) but he does not share those.

 

I thought it would be a good idea to do both the inner smile and the healing sounds. Chia talks about using them together, so that's good. Now this brings up a new question - if there are different sounds for chronic stagnation, how do they apply to expelling heat, or will the sounds he presents in the books work for that?

 

Since you think the issue is heat, why are you not asking how to reduce excess heat in these areas?

 

I thought I made that clear in my very first post, when I wrote:

 

"The reason I'm asking is because I have a lot of heat in the liver, gall bladder, and lungs. Acupuncture is bringing it out, along with herbs, and I just did a 30 day raw milk fast as well. This helps (did it last year), but it seems most of the heat is emotional. I was hoping that the healing sounds presented by Mantak Chia in his books works, because I need to find a way to cool those organs."

 

I don't think the issue is heat, I know the issue is heat. I have a strong background in Ayurvedic medicine, and I diagnosed it as heat. Three different acupuncturists have confirmed it using TCM diagnosis (pulse, tongue analysis, etc).

 

I've been taking several different herbs for heat - chrysanthemum, bhumyamalaki (an Ayurvedic herb), some Chinese formulas such as Lily Preserve Metal and Rehmannia Cool Blood Formula (both from Golden Flower Chinese Herbs) the latter two prescribed by the acupuncturist. I've had plenty of acupuncture, and the practitioner I see is very good. Once she inserts and stimulates the needles, I can feel the heat draining down my legs and arms and my palms and soles of my feet get red and sweat like crazy. I can feel the heat draining out.

 

But I can't afford 3 acupuncture treatments a week in this economy. So I thought that if I could cool the organs using the healing sounds, I could do that as often as possible and it wouldn't bankrupt me. I have 3 jobs and am in school full time (so I can get rid of the 3 jobs and start a better career! ) and there is a lot of stress coming from family and other issues. In Ayurvedic Medicine I am a predominant pitta type, meaning I inherently have a lot of heat and so I'm prone to heat conditions, just as a predominant vata type is prone to cold conditions. Combine my constitution with summer weather and stress, and you have 3 forces converging on causing heat and reinforcing one another.

 

This is why I just did a 30 day raw milk cleanse. Raw milk is very cold in its energy, and in Ayurveda it would be considered sweet and cooling. It helps a lot, but I don't want to live on nothing but milk for the rest of summer! LOL! It's too boring. When I go back to food, I keep it to cooling stuff...lettuce, cucumber, bitter veggies, etc. But for some reason the heat is just very hard to dislodge.

 

I was going to ask Gary Clyman about taking it out similar to how he does his emotional liposuction, but he seems to believe heat is not a problem. Try telling that to the rash on my arm and the constant heat headaches!

 

So my basic question is simply: Do the sounds Mantak Chia gives expel heat and are they a legitimate practice? So far the consensus here is that they are legitimate, but no verification about the cooling effect. Perhaps VCraigP would be the best suited to answer that, since he has a lot of experience in the system. Would the sounds expel heat? Chia seems to focus on the idea that they expel heat, I don't recall reading anything in his books about it breaking up stagnation.

 

Also, I really like the idea Craig came up with, of having the acupuncturist test me before and after doing the healing sounds. I'm going to ask her next time I see her if she can check my pulse and then I can go do the healing sounds (assuming I get verification they do expel heat) while she works on another patient, then when she gets back to me we can see if there's a change. I might as well be a guinea pig and use my suffering to help add to the knowledge base.

[dawei]

So my basic question is simply: Do the sounds Mantak Chia gives expel heat and are they a legitimate practice? So far the consensus here is that they are legitimate, but no verification about the cooling effect.

I answer this... by saying you asking the wrong question.

"Sounds" are purgation. Hot or Cold !! Don't you get it?? Just Purgation. You need to know what you are purging.

 

I already told you some examples of cooling... and I said to ask your acupuncturist. Do they know the simple teas I said? Just ask them. If they do not even know the teas I said, then run to the hills... these are commonplace in china.

 

Here are the sounds:

ORGAN -- SIMPLE -- SEVERE

LV -- Shu -- Guo

HT -- Haa -- Jiang/Zhang

SP -- Wuu -- Gong (stomach=dong)

LU -- Shh -- Shang

KD -- Chre -- Yu

[au2o3]

Hi Tao-Newbie

 

I think you will find that the 6 healing sounds will definitely cool down you organs. I originally took the class with Master Chia in 1986 before all the extras were added. It works great, you can feel the heat being expelled even to the point that if feels hot on your lips and skin of the mouth.

 

I think the biggest problem people have with this exercise is that they do not do it correctly. So they think the exercise is not good (this is where it helps to be in front of a teacher who can see and hear what you are doing).

 

When you make the sound try to make the sound originate from the organ. (When you start to make the sound say the lungs it is Ssssss like air escaping when people make the sound they make it in the mouth just behind the front teeth. What you can do to help move the sound down into the organ (lung in this case) is to start making the sound with your tongue almost touching your teeth as you make the Ssssss sound (kind of like a cat hiss) keep making the sound but slowly move your tongue away from the front teeth just a few millimeters by relaxing the back of your tongue at the esophagus it will sound like the Ssssss sound got lower in pitch, height and also the air pressure at the teeth will decrease. (I find it is not so much about the sound as the technique as he said it should cause a vibration in the organ and I have found that low woks best!)

 

I also find that as you do the lung sound try to split the air column coming out of the esophagus from the 2 lungs when it is exiting the mouth. The air from the right lung is directed to the right side of the mouth opening and the air from the left lung is directed to the left side of the mouth opening. Try to open the sides of the mouth more and move the middle of the lips closer together like a number 8 on it's side.

 

You should try to relax the shoulders and keep the body almost suspended from the head with the eyes looking up to the ceiling. This opens the throat wide so that the heat can escape unobstructed.

 

Once you do a sound and bring the hands down into the lap take a few relaxed breaths then do the sound just in your mind but feel that the heat is still leaving. Later you can work on the emotion color and season / direction.

 

As Master Chia said try to feel a slight contraction around the organ so that any stagnant lymph and blood will be moved and eventually replaced with fresh blood and lymph fluid.

 

I think this is one of the best cleaning exercises I have ever done and it is great to do when you feel like you are starting to get sick. At some point you will start to feel pockets of cold as you do each organ.

 

I hope this is helpful.

 

PS Try to find one of the early books

 

 

Best Regards

 

Shawn

Edited June 24, 2011 by au2o3

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Tao-Newbie]

Thanks Shawn! That sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. I'll start working on it and post once I see what effect they have. I have the early books, bought them around 1988/1989. Gotta go re-read them and start the practice. I also believe I have the Healing Sounds VHS tape somewhere, in which Chia demonstrates the sounds, so that'll be helpful if I can dig it out.

[Maddie]

I have actually done the healing sound practice extensively for a few years now and love it! :-). As has already been mentioned here Chia did not invent the healing sounds, they have been around a long time. And yes they do remove excess heat from the organs very well as I can attest from a lot of personal experience. I've also noticed that if you do the movements that Chia prescribes that the effect is even enhanced more. I realize that there is controversy surrounding Chia, but I've found doing what he teaches to work quite well.

[virtuous pig]

I have actually done the healing sound practice extensively for a few years now and love it! :-). As has already been mentioned here Chia did not invent the healing sounds, they have been around a long time. And yes they do remove excess heat from the organs very well as I can attest from a lot of personal experience. I've also noticed that if you do the movements that Chia prescribes that the effect is even enhanced more. I realize that there is controversy surrounding Chia, but I've found doing what he teaches to work quite well.

 

I've been doing the healing sounds for about 4 years now; intially I only did about three of each sound; now I do about six; sometimes more if the organ is particulary blocked (usually my liver or lungs). It is a foundation exercise and one of the best; It gets better and better the more you practise; the best time is before bed; you sleep so much better.

 

M Chia didn't invent the sounds they were created by daoist thousands of years ago and are still as useful and wonderful today

[JustARandomPanda]

Can anyone explain to me if there is an advantage to making the sounds out loud?

 

I know Master Nan Huai-Chin recommends doing them quietly while focusing on the sounds as a preliminary right before doing anapana. But is there any advantage to saying the 6 Healing Sounds out loud too?

 

Also...is Tenzin's Warrior Sounds associated with any of the internal organs?

[guruyoga]

Can anyone explain to me if there is an advantage to making the sounds out loud?

 

I know Master Nan Huai-Chin recommends doing them quietly while focusing on the sounds as a preliminary right before doing anapana. But is there any advantage to saying the 6 Healing Sounds out loud too?

 

Also...is Tenzin's Warrior Sounds associated with any of the internal organs?

 

Mingtong Gu states that there are different aspects to organs - physical and spiritual. He also lists different sounds for these aspects. He also explained in a lecture once that saying these sounds out loud, in the mind and listening to them - all have slightly different effects on the associated organs. He has a nice course on sound healing if anyone is interested.

 

http://www.chicenter.com/Chi/Store/CDs/index.cfm