Everything you need to know about "Buddhism"

[Gerard]

Less talk and mental masturbation; also forget about all the dogma and devotional aspect attached to it. Buddha's teachings not Buddhism, please. Everything you need to know has been nicely arranged in the following page (nothing new since this information is also available in a pdf file called "Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha" authored by Daniel Ingram):

 

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/MCTB?p_r_p_185834411_title=MCTB

 

 

Mods pin this thread.

[Medhavi]

I can completely vouch for Ingram's work.

When I first picked this up, I was slightly turned off by the seemingly pretentious title.

But it does exactly what it claims to do.

 

If you're already versed in theory, the real treasure are the maps of spiritual progression(which you can also download from the same website)

 

Practise.

[Mahberry]

A fresh perspective for Buddhists on the internet who are tired of being an armchair philosopher and posting profound horseshit with their newfound Buddhist wise man identity.

 

Oh, Ingram you so fly.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Buddha's teachings not Buddhism, please.

 

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/MCTB?p_r_p_185834411_title=MCTB

 

 

I agree that discussing Buddhism as if it were a complicated machine is sort of like a dog chasing its tail; however, as much as Ingram makes a lot of good points that may be well to be said, he also scoffs at a lot of ideas which were in fact stated by Shakyamuni himself, while Ingram states that demanding arhats to adhere to these principles is contrary to the teachings of Buddha. His part on "The action model" is what I refer to here.

 

Thus, this is really just another "Buddhism."

 

I would agree though that much of what is considered Enlightenment nowadays is really just "stream entry."

Edited June 27, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Tell me more

 

Meaning that when somebody realizes that their super ego is just a meaningless fabrication, that humility and service are wiser than pride and selfishness, that everyone is a struggling being as we are and we can have a love for all life regardless of its behaviour, that events are just cycles and not permanently disastrous, and such things...

 

things like this when all put together are sometimes termed as "enlightenment" but really are just like "you must be at least this tall to go on this ride" requirements before they become journeymen or whatevermedevers on the path to True Knowledge.

[Medhavi]

I agree that discussing Buddhism as if it were a complicated machine is sort of like a dog chasing its tail; however, as much as Ingram makes a lot of good points that may be well to be said, he also scoffs at a lot of ideas which were in fact stated by Shakyamuni himself, while Ingram states that demanding arhats to adhere to these principles is contrary to the teachings of Buddha. His part on "The action model" is what I refer to here.

 

Thus, this is really just another "Buddhism."

 

I would agree though that much of what is considered Enlightenment nowadays is really just "stream entry."

 

Well, there is no proof that anything we have floating around now corresponds to anything Shakyamuni Buddha might have said/taught. In fact, if you compare this to how other systems got corrupted(usually within the first two generations), it is highly unlikely.

 

As such, we indeed have "Buddhisms" now, which are interpretations of various sources.

 

How to judge such interpretations? By their efficacy.

 

And, based on my subjective testing, Ingram's work can save you many unneeded headaches and financial adventures by presenting you with the bare bones that are necessary to get you pretty far.

That's what is so commendable about it.

[adept]

The instructions highlighted in my post here cannot be disregarded when it comes to the nitty gritty of 'Buddhist' meditation.

Buddhist meditation is not all about vipassana, and certainly not the modern interpretation of it.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Well, there is no proof that anything we have floating around now corresponds to anything Shakyamuni Buddha might have said/taught. In fact, if you compare this to how other systems got corrupted(usually within the first two generations), it is highly unlikely.

 

As such, we indeed have "Buddhisms" now, which are interpretations of various sources.

 

How to judge such interpretations? By their efficacy.

 

 

Well then we're getting into a debate which would be beyond pretty much all available scholarship: what was added by followers and what was directly from Buddha?

 

Is it more likely that Shakyamuni was far more liberal than what he apparently said in the Sutras? For laymen, that's more plausible, but for Arhats and higher levels he seemed to have a pretty non-negotiable system and I wouldn't assume that he was more of a spiritual liberalist towards things like lust and intoxicants regardless of our experiences of them as laymen.

 

To have a genuine Buddhist worldview, I wouldn't say that all the prohibitions are necessary, but total spiritual and life commitment is a different matter. Keeping in mind that Buddha is usually addressing his followers who have already attained numerous levels of Awakening. When he's speaking to or of laymen, the level and intensity of commitment is not expected, but he does still point to ways that they can attain a higher level of liberation "within their own pond." I believe he also said that not everyone is supposed to be a Buddha, some people are supposed to maintain the periphery.

 

Really, I can't debate on something which has no more than "subjective evidence."

 

edit: also, the afterthought additions to Christianity and Islam were given as "this is what Christ or Mohammed said, and this is what some of his followers said" and the stuff that came after is where it got political.

 

The same goes with Buddhism, where there is what The Buddha said, and then what Bodhidharma said, etc..

 

So even with Christianity there is an original, at least in Coptic texts... And the changes afterwards are fairly well documented.

 

Aside from the Quran, probably none of the texts are word for word what the leader said, but the highest level of fidelity was sought. +++ The Buddha was alive and teaching the same message for about 50 years...

Edited June 27, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Lucky7Strikes]

Ingram's views have been going through interesting changes since his integration of Actual Freedom practices. I haven't read upon them recently but it's worth checking out on the DO forum.

[Gerard]

And, based on my subjective testing, Ingram's work can save you many unneeded headaches and financial adventures by presenting you with the bare bones that are necessary to get you pretty far.That's what is so commendable about it.

 

Yes, spot on! The path to mental liberation has been put forward by Daniel Ingram in a very informative way without having to go through the metaphorical and often boring material found in the Pali canon. When you go through Vipassana you basically go through hell since you will have to face all your demons (samskaras) with pain and more pain. That material kindly given for free instead of a book format or endless Seminars which could easily cost a lot of $, as most authors are so keen to do today (especially in other spiritual traditions), is very helpful because you will get stuck in Vipassana practice to the point that you either walk out as a result of the above or stay there waiting, stuck in the mud...and tell me what would you do next if that's the case, huh?

 

...............

 

Stream entry refers not only to the ego (existence of a self), but also the following:

 

1. Skeptical Doubt - doubt about the efficacy of the mental working surrounding insight meditation.

 

Ladies and gentleman I have seen people walking out of Vipassana retreats after just 2 days pf practice, people who spent significant money and time to travel from their European and North American homes to Thailand, one of the countries where regular retreats are offered.

 

2. Clinging to rites and rituals - prayers to God and various deities for rescue, rigid moralism, rituals, etc.

 

...........

 

 

Ingram's views have been going through interesting changes since his integration of Actual Freedom practices. I haven't read upon them recently but it's worth checking out on the DO forum.

 

Now that you mention it, and for those who are not immersed in an specific spiritual tradition they might find useful AF's path. Here's the webpage:

 

http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/

Edited June 28, 2011 by Gerard

[Gerard]

A useful pdf file that provides practical sitting advice:

 

http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf/mindfulness_in_plain_english.pdf

Edited June 28, 2011 by Gerard

[JustARandomPanda]

I am no expert on Buddhism but the one thing about it that appeals to me is that it is an empirical religion. That is - if I'm not mistaken - Shakyamuni said something to the effect of don't believe anything without testing it out yourself. I liked that he set forth a system that was saying, "If you do A,B,C you'll get results X,Y,Z. But don't take my word for it. Do the work yourself and test it out." I like that empirical emphasis. It is so refreshing. Especially as I was raised Christian where everything is "you just gotta believe in Jesus and everything will be hunky dory."

 

And yes...Daniel Ingram kicks butt. I own the physical book of his Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha.

 

Other teachers I would say are great for spiritual seekers are:

 

Ven. U Vimalaramsi - his explanation of Anapana is the best I've ever seen. Thanks Adept for sharing it. Because of your introducing him to me I ordered Vimalaramsi's translation of the Anapasati Sutta for my library.

 

Nan Huai-Chin - his 3 books - Tao & Longevity, Working Toward Enlightment and To Realize Enlightenment are fantastic.

 

I have many great spiritual and esoteric books in my library but if I could have only a handful on a desert island these are the ones I would choose above all others.

[adept]

Vimalaramsi's 'Bare bones instructions to mindfulness of breathing' here

Edited June 28, 2011 by adept

[adept]

In this post there is a link to the PDF of the Mindfulness Of Breathing method as outlined by the Buddha in the Pali suttas.

[thuscomeone]

"Nobody listened to him, that's why there is Buddhism." - J. Krishnamurti

 

Daniel Ingram is closer than most to what the Buddha actually taught, but he still has his own views which he clings to, so he is still off.

Edited June 28, 2011 by thuscomeone

[Bluefront]

Whoa, thats alot of reading.

 

I prefer to just take two pieces from the box of buddhist chocolates, anattā (no-self) and anicca (impermamence)

And with those two I'm content, I can take more chocolates if I want but there is nothing telling me to do so.

[doc benway]

"Nobody listened to him, that's why there is Buddhism." - J. Krishnamurti

 

Daniel Ingram is closer than most to what the Buddha actually taught, but he still has his own views which he clings to, so he is still off.

If we have a view, we are already clinging.

 

Being a Buddhist is already separating oneself from Buddha.

[RiverSnake]

Just started reading this book and am enjoying its no nonsense straight to the grit steak and eggs style.

[mYTHmAKER]

If we have a view, we are already clinging.

 

Being a Buddhist is already separating oneself from Buddha.

 

:)

Edited June 29, 2011 by mYTHmAKER