Why should I study the I Ching

[Aetherous]

So for the past couple years I've had a question, which I've been trying to resolve on my own...

 

Basically, I don't know what the point of studying the I Ching is.

 

It seems like a really cool thing to know about...but I just don't see the point. Each time I pick up a book on it, all that I see is that it's a man made creation which has nothing to do with nature as I know it. I see that people use it as a divinatory tool, by tossing coins or stalks...but I don't personally need to consult oracles. I don't understand how it could benefit me in any way, or bring me any sort of useful knowledge.

 

So, those who understand this book...what is your motivation for using it and studying it (besides divination)? How has it helped you personally? Do you think that it is accurate in terms of understanding patterns and powers in nature? Does the knowledge carry over to other Taoist practices in a substantial way? Why should one learn this book?

 

Thanks

[zerostao]

it probably doesn't matter if you choose to study it or not

 

writing cannot express words completely. words cannot express thoughts

completely.

the measuring worm draws itself together when it wants to stretch out.

dragons and snakes hibernate in order to perserve life. thus, the penetration

of a germinal thought into the mind promotes the working of the mind.

when this working furthers and brings peace to life, it elevates one's nature.

whatever goes beyond this indeed transcends all knowledge.

when a person comprehends the divine and understands the transformations,

it lifts their nature to the level of the miraculous.

 

it is alot more than an oracle.

 

it reveals tao and renders nature and action divine.

therefore with its help we can meet everything in the right way,

and with its help can even assist the gods themselves.

 

but if you are not the person the I Ching chooses it will never manifest

itself to you.

[Apech]

I don't pretend to understand the I Ching properly ... although I do consult it from time to time. To me it is interesting on all sorts of levels. If you accept that energy has a basic polarity (yin/Yang) ... then you can look at how complex levels of reality can develop from the interaction of this duality ... from the pairs, trigrams to the hexagrams ... most of the Taoist alchemical texts seem to draw on symbolism from the I Ching so if you are interested in cultivation then its probably a great help if not essential to have a basic knowledge of it. But I guess if you feel no connection to it ... then give it a miss ... there are other things to do.

[Taomeow]

So for the past couple years I've had a question, which I've been trying to resolve on my own...

 

Basically, I don't know what the point of studying the I Ching is.

 

It seems like a really cool thing to know about...but I just don't see the point. Each time I pick up a book on it, all that I see is that it's a man made creation which has nothing to do with nature as I know it. I see that people use it as a divinatory tool, by tossing coins or stalks...but I don't personally need to consult oracles. I don't understand how it could benefit me in any way, or bring me any sort of useful knowledge.

 

So, those who understand this book...what is your motivation for using it and studying it (besides divination)? How has it helped you personally? Do you think that it is accurate in terms of understanding patterns and powers in nature? Does the knowledge carry over to other Taoist practices in a substantial way? Why should one learn this book?

 

Thanks

 

I've been living with the I Ching for some ten years, so I'll try to answer your questions.

 

So, those who understand this book...what is your motivation for using it and studying it (besides divination)?

 

I believe she knows what I don't know and would like to know. E.g., who I am, where I come from, where I'm going... stuff like that.

 

Also, she is the voice of my Free Will. Too often people hear the voice of their Free Whim instead, which is really the voice of the demons-in-charge, assorted internalized controlling forces that bind them so skillfully that they don't realize someone or something foreign to their true nature is what's pulling the strings of action or non-action for them. They think it's their own decisions they are making... when in fact it's the deceitful Free Whim (free for the controlling forces, not for the controlled party!) that causes them to move or not move. A puppet on a string is free to move whimsically this way and that way... or at least that's what it thinks for as long as it's unaware of the strings... and, see, it's made just so as to mistake the internalized voices of its controlling demonic masters for the voice of its own Free Will.

 

The I Ching teaches you to tell the difference.

 

How has it helped you personally?

 

In these ten years, I had to face major adversities of the kind I never had to face before, and many people I used to trust and rely on disappointed me and ultimately proved to me that in your darkest hour you are alone -- no one has the guts to go to hell with you and be there for you, much less the know-how as to how to get you out of there, much less the energy, wisdom, presence, constancy, trust to be your stronger, wiser alter ego. When you need to move mountains not because you are particularly ambitious but because a few have fallen on your head... well, that's when you may find you have nobody and nothing but yourself to accomplish the task... nobody and nothing strong enough to help... except for the I Ching. She was there for me. She's got what it takes.

 

Do you think that it is accurate in terms of understanding patterns and powers in nature?

 

One hundred percent.

 

Does the knowledge carry over to other Taoist practices in a substantial way?

 

I don't believe any other taoist practices are possible to grasp without it. Whole schools and sects have made the mistake of ignoring it and latching onto something "new and cool" instead (e.g. an imported belief system that came into vogue for a few hundred years, or even a couple thousand), and they didn't last. "It flares up, dies down, is thrown away," as the I Ching herself describes these. The I Ching has staying power. Its opponents and non-proponents don't.

 

Why should one learn this book?

 

There's no "should." The best way to find out is ask her.

[Aetherous]

zerostao,

 

it is alot more than an oracle.

 

it reveals tao

 

I am hoping to find a use for it besides it being an oracle. In what way does it reveal Tao, and what exactly do you mean by Tao in this case?

 

Apech,

 

If you accept that energy has a basic polarity (yin/Yang) ... then you can look at how complex levels of reality can develop from the interaction of this duality ... from the pairs, trigrams to the hexagrams

 

I think there is some truth to a basic polarity existing, or a seeming one (in the case of day/night for example...they aren't polar opposites, it's just the movement of the earth and the apparent motion and absence of the sun. Actual day and night are illusory and just concepts). Most of the world appears as dual, but in fact it is not...so we already begin with a false conceptual map of nature by using yin and yang.

 

I begin to get really hung up on the 8 trigrams. They are supposed to be 8 powers in nature...but they don't seem equal to me, and definitely not a basis for the rest of creation. Sky, lake, fire, thunder, wind, water, mountain, earth. Sky and earth seem equal and worthy. But a lake? Thunder? Why not a river? Why not lightning, or a storm in general? What about volcanoes? The way I see it, these 8 trigrams don't make sense as the 8 primary forces of nature.

 

Then these powers are each equated to other things...in the case of "sky" there is: expansiveness, a father, summertime, creativity...so we begin to lump a lot of other aspects of our reality into categories which may be inaccurate, and not useful.

 

Then we combine two of these 8 powers and come up with a hexagram? Why? And more importantly, how does one know that by combining those two forces, whether the resulting explanation is accurate for those things? I understand there is a lot of explanation for each line and position within the hexagrams...so perhaps there is something to defining everything in terms of 64. But what use does it have in terms of numerology (for instance does hexagram 45's explanation actually relate to the energy of the number 45 itself? Will that explanation correlate to other times when the number 45 appears?). And why is everything based off of 8 powers anyway? From what I understand, most systems use 9 as the complete or final number.

 

So anyway, the way I see it, the entire book seems to be based on a shaky foundation.

 

Taomeow,

 

The I Ching teaches you to tell the difference.

 

Will you give an example of how it does that?

 

Thanks to you all.

[Aetherous]

Also, Taomeow,

 

Do you think that it is accurate in terms of understanding patterns and powers in nature?

 

One hundred percent.

 

Can you explain more about this point? This is what I'm most interested in. Can the I Ching be used for weather magick, or interpreting interesting changes in nature?

[Apech]

 

Apech,

 

 

 

I think there is some truth to a basic polarity existing, or a seeming one (in the case of day/night for example...they aren't polar opposites, it's just the movement of the earth and the apparent motion and absence of the sun. Actual day and night are illusory and just concepts). Most of the world appears as dual, but in fact it is not...so we already begin with a false conceptual map of nature by using yin and yang.

 

I begin to get really hung up on the 8 trigrams. They are supposed to be 8 powers in nature...but they don't seem equal to me, and definitely not a basis for the rest of creation. Sky, lake, fire, thunder, wind, water, mountain, earth. Sky and earth seem equal and worthy. But a lake? Thunder? Why not a river? Why not lightning, or a storm in general? What about volcanoes? The way I see it, these 8 trigrams don't make sense as the 8 primary forces of nature.

 

Then these powers are each equated to other things...in the case of "sky" there is: expansiveness, a father, summertime, creativity...so we begin to lump a lot of other aspects of our reality into categories which may be inaccurate, and not useful.

 

Then we combine two of these 8 powers and come up with a hexagram? Why? And more importantly, how does one know that by combining those two forces, whether the resulting explanation is accurate for those things? I understand there is a lot of explanation for each line and position within the hexagrams...so perhaps there is something to defining everything in terms of 64. But what use does it have in terms of numerology (for instance does hexagram 45's explanation actually relate to the energy of the number 45 itself? Will that explanation correlate to other times when the number 45 appears?). And why is everything based off of 8 powers anyway? From what I understand, most systems use 9 as the complete or final number.

 

So anyway, the way I see it, the entire book seems to be based on a shaky foundation.

 

 

 

Clearly its up to you how you approach this ... supposing you are going to study it all. If you are you need to start with why for instance three yang lines is sky/heaven i.e. what energy/power in nature it is an image of. Why lake? What is meant by lake ... what quality of lake is being alluded to ... etc. rather than assuming you already know what sky, lake , thunder and so on are. Its hard to explain but try to let the text speak to you without preconceptions. Your questions are good .. since you ask them you could get to an answer I think.

 

Sorry if this sounds either vague or mysterious but its late here and I'm going to bed now ...

[Aetherous]

rather than assuming you already know what sky, lake , thunder and so on are. Its hard to explain but try to let the text speak to you without preconceptions.

 

I shall take this approach!

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

I have studied I Ching for many years, through 6-8 translations.. i do not use it for divination in the traditional manner.. what i have learned, is to study it by reading it thoroughly, following the changing relationships.. having read several translations completely, and Thomas Cleary's 'Taoist' translation several times completely, i am convinced the most beneficial use of I Ching is in its profound understanding of human nature.. and, in the the progression of inclinations resulting form the matrices of trigrams, or more appropriately the intersections of personalities and stimuli.. after enough reading, I Ching begins to counsel you from within, not as expectation or preconception, but.. as sensing the relationships of Life unfolding, in real-time spontaneously.. I Ching, internalized, is a constant understanding of relationships as they unfold, a synthesis of 'happening', an expanded awareness..

 

Be well..

[Stigweard]

[Aetherous]

Thanks Stig,

 

With use it helps to train awareness to recognise patterns and to be able intuitively make the appropriate responses without needing to cast seeds/coins/stalks.

 

I'm interested in this recognition of patterns. How does this recognition happen for you?

 

For example, lets say you recognize what kind of situation you're in (perhaps by intuitively recalling hexagram 15, or having been in a similar situation previously). What is the most likely next phase of the pattern? Hexagram 16?

 

Is it more about the wisdom contained in the writings about each hexagram, rather than the powers of the hexagrams themselves?

 

By the way...how would one recognize what situation they're in aside from a random divination with coins? I am really interested in this aspect...do the 64 have distinct manifestations in the natural world, so that you can say "oh yes (hexagram 44) change is in the air"? Or just the experience paired with an intuitive feeling that leads you to know you're having a hexagram 24 moment?

 

Distinct manifestations...for instance, a storm rolls in and birds are still in the sky chirping...versus it's a sunny day with white puffy clouds and a gentle breeze? To me, these things represent the REAL changes of energy, within and without. For instance, a person feels a kind of exhiliration during a storm. On the other hand, a person will feel relaxation and positivity on a white puffy cloud gentle breeze day. Real changes and powers.

 

...maybe I'm trying to look at it from too much of a natural point of view...when really it has more to do with human complexities and philosophies?

 

On an internal energetic level it helps you understand the way in which your subtle energy moves and evolves.

 

Can you give an example of this? I do quite a bit of internal energy work, and don't see how the book could apply...but this is the main way I would want to use the book!

[Aetherous]

It was observed that the phases of change pass through a wider spectrum and thus the 8 trigrams of the Bagua were formulated

 

Also throwing this question out there: what came first, the lo shu square or the 8 trigrams?

[zerostao]

quote name='center' date='28 June 2011 - 04:32 PM' timestamp='1309303938' post='269202']

zerostao,

 

 

 

I am hoping to find a use for it besides it being an oracle. In what way does it reveal Tao, and what exactly do you mean by Tao in this case?

 

besides being an oracle it is a book of wisdom. sublime wisdom. practical wisdom.

not only will you learn the future , you will understand the past.

if the I Ching has chosen you , then you will be drawn out of your accustomed framework

of thought and you will view the world in a new perspective. your imagination will be stimulated

and your psychological insight deepened.

 

the I Ching insists upon self-knowledge thru-out. it removes your delusions.

however becoz the method by which this is achieved is open to every type of mis-use,

and is therefore not intended for the frivolous or immature , and it is not for intellectualists or rationalists.

it is appropriate for a very specific type of person.

 

it is about attaining self-knowledge.

 

the I Ching does not vaunt itself, it does not offer proofs and results.

it is not easy to approach.

like anything in nature it awaits to be discovered.

 

edit> to answer what i mean by tao in this case...

i think of chapter 1 of the TTC.

Edited June 29, 2011 by zerostao

[Harmonious Emptiness]

One helpful thing to keep in mind when reading the I Ching is that a lot of it's use is related to dealing with authority from the bottom or from the top. Sometimes the authority is a person, sometimes it might be a situation that has authority over you, sometimes you may be the authority figure but in reality you are controlled by those you have authority over, sometimes you have might have authority over a situation but if you don't handle the situation correctly you will find yourself being ruled by it instead.

 

One thing the I Ching does is to show you how to handle these situations while maintaining your essential nature and integrity.

 

When looking at the hexagrams, the bottom three is like the populace, and the top three are like the government. In each trigram you have varying degrees of power. So if the person on the bottom of the bottom 3 is yang, while those above him are both yin, then the bottom person is one who's integrity is actually in control, and the I Ching will explain how this situation must be handled for the dignity of all involved.

 

If in the top trigram the middle line is yang and the other two are yin, then the counselor to the emperor is really the one in control. If the top line is yang and all the rest are yin, then there is a ruler without much help from the bottom.

 

 

edit: I should also add that the third line up is the leader of the populace (person or otherwise), the 4th line is the government agent that communicates between the two trigrams.

 

 

Now, like other people have said here, this is only one way to look at it. These relationships might be power based on some political structure, but these power dynamics are important in the body, in your mind, in your emotions, in you time, in your money, in your energy, in your education, your food, etc., etc., etc.

 

Be sure to have at least one translation that accompanies the explanation of the hexagram with sort of a story to tell the whole situation. Otherwise it can be a bit confusing.

 

You can read the I Ching from front to back or any random chapter and there will still be insightful advice to life in general no matter where you are.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Harmonious Emptiness]

 

Also, she is the voice of my Free Will. Too often people hear the voice of their Free Whim instead, which is really the voice of the demons-in-charge, assorted internalized controlling forces that bind them so skillfully that they don't realize someone or something foreign to their true nature is what's pulling the strings of action or non-action for them. They think it's their own decisions they are making... when in fact it's the deceitful Free Whim (free for the controlling forces, not for the controlled party!) that causes them to move or not move. A puppet on a string is free to move whimsically this way and that way... or at least that's what it thinks for as long as it's unaware of the strings... and, see, it's made just so as to mistake the internalized voices of its controlling demonic masters for the voice of its own Free Will.

 

The I Ching teaches you to tell the difference.

 

 

Btw, this was a great illucidation of will and freedom; one that is really needed as the use of the word freedom is so dissociated from its contexts by soundbite newspeak. Thanks for that

[Stigweard]

I'm interested in this recognition of patterns. How does this recognition happen for you?

 

For example, lets say you recognize what kind of situation you're in (perhaps by intuitively recalling hexagram 15, or having been in a similar situation previously). What is the most likely next phase of the pattern? Hexagram 16?

Yes on a simple level I sometimes get the intuitive thought of "This is like Hexagram so and so", it will give me some insight into the situation and will give me a direction to move to create/maintain harmony.

 

For example just recently with my work our team won the best performing team (which got us free tickets to the State of Origin football match). Now through my work with the I Ching I know that every high point is followed by a low point, so we are advised not to overly celebrate or dwell on the high points because this excess may exacerbate or compound the subsequent declines.

 

So I deliberately didn't go "over the top" with excitement about our win. Interestingly our results in the month since this win has dropped off significantly and I have watch as other team members have despaired over it but, because I was anticipating it, I have taken it in my stride and just got on with the job.

 

Likewise we should not catastrophize the low points. My team leader will often fret over the times I don't hit my performance targets and she gets frustrated when I respond with a smile and say "it's all good."

 

By not accentuating the high points or catastrophizing the low points we moderate the extremes in our life.

 

In terms of how do you recognise which hexagrams are "in the air", this only comes through doing many castings and reflecting on how they "fit" with the situations.

Is it more about the wisdom contained in the writings about each hexagram, rather than the powers of the hexagrams themselves?

Both. There are a number of commentaries. I resonate best with Ni Hua Chings'. But there is symbolic power and wisdom in the Hexagrams. Study and practice will reveal this.

 

Can you give an example of this? I do quite a bit of internal energy work, and don't see how the book could apply...but this is the main way I would want to use the book!

If you look at the following topic you will see some of my musings in this regard:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/18594-the-alchemy-of-taijiquan

 

Edited June 30, 2011 by Stigweard

[MassTaoism]

I think once I have a full grasp on Tao Te Ching I will probably move on to a copy of I Ching, I think that anything that has to do with Daoism should be studied and learned since you never know when you may need it down the road. There are lots of Masters both here and elsewhere in the world that have used the knowledge within the I Ching and it wouldn't hurt to brush up on it I suppose. I certainly will be.

[Aetherous]

Thanks Stig, those musing in your topic were very interesting!

[zerostao]

the I Ching embraces the various situations of life and their essential meanings.

it allows us to shape our life meaningfully. it allows us to be equal in every situation.

if we accept its meaning without resistence we can attain peace of soul.

when we meditate upon its judgements we can intuitively perceive the inter-relationships in our world.

 

the ancient sages gave us a way to put ourselves in accord with tao and its power

and in conformity of what is right.

by exploring nature to its deepest core, one can come to an understanding of fate.

 

apart from being an oracle( one that is accurate) the I Ching serves to further intuitive understanding

of conditions in our world. it penetrates to the depths of nature and spirit.

 

the I Ching is in harmony with tao and its power(natural and moral law)

so becoz of this it can lay down the rules for what is right for each person.

 

when i first started posting here i never ever capitalized any words to include

i or lao tzu etc but i ALWAYS capitalized the I Ching.

[Taomeow]

The I Ching teaches you to tell the difference.

 

Taomeow,

 

Will you give an example of how it does that?

 

 

Sure. Here's one of the most extreme examples I've encountered of a clash between Free Whim and Free Will which the I Ching stepped in to point out. When it is extreme, she may seem to make no sense in her response to your question, because there's a bigger question you need to be asking at the moment and she will ignore the "whimsical" one and answer the real one instead, the one you didn't know you needed to ask because you weren't attuned to the flow of time, space, and energy of the moment.

 

The question was whether a rock band ISO more visibility and success would benefit from changing its name. The answer was, "there's illness; one does not die." It made no sense until two weeks later, when the lead guitarist was diagnosed with a life-threatening illness. All Free Will there was went into deciding, time and time again, on the best treatment/healing strategies, and remained invested into that for a very long time. In the meantime, the band fell apart, and not only the original whimsical question about changing its name didn't matter, but its very existence didn't matter anymore. It existed due to Free Whim, which is oblivious of the true imperatives of the moment -- and these will demand an investment of Free Will because true imperatives of the moment run close to the core of existence -- at all times. When you know what they are, that's your field of application of your Free Will, and operating within that field will invariably cause Free Whim to fall away. When you don't know what they are, you handle every decision you make or refuse to make with Free Whim, and in this case Free Will plays no part in your life.

 

On a more mundane level, I have seen responses to divinations along the lines of "superior and inferior" choices -- meaning, e.g., that I could do what I was planning to do and it would indeed benefit the "inferior" aspects of my being but be detrimental to the "superior" aspects. So, e.g., avoiding a difficult task would be short-term advantageous and long-term stifling to my development. Or vice versa -- seeking to accomplish a difficult practical task would inconvenience my "superior" self (because, e.g., cultivation has to be put on hold) but place my "inferior" self in a more comfortable position. The I Ching doesn't tell me which course is "right" or "wrong" -- she shows me the field of applications for my Free Will, "you decide," so to speak. But she does show me the field of application of Free Will, not Free Whim. If the question is free-whimsical and there's no field of application for Free Will, she usually tells me something along the lines of "it doesn't really matter" or "use your own brain" or even "don't bother me with this again, I already told you before."

 

The "size" of the question is not what matters -- it can be very "small" -- I might consult her about highlighting my hair and she will detail the pro's and con's, giving me the "Adornment" chapter, e.g., there's nothing wrong with external yang applications, in the form of some peroxide, and she may support that if she likes the color she sees in her mind's eye. No, what matters is the "substance" of the question, its alignment with the "landscape of time" or, alternatively, the questioning (or non-questioning) party's failure to even notice it... She makes you notice it and start learning how to keep noticing it and paying attention to what it's like and charting your course accordingly, whether baby steps or huge leaps, everything. So that's how she teaches you... the understanding comes very gradually, and only with much practice, and only with divination practice and comparing your divination results with real-life events that unfold as you go -- and not with any "I Ching of the head" undertakings, not any "studies" that don't involve your very own real life. These are useless, IMO.

[al.]

Thanks Stig,

 

 

 

I'm interested in this recognition of patterns.

 

 

 

Can you give an example of this? I do quite a bit of internal energy work, and don't see how the book could apply...but this is the main way I would want to use the book!

 

"The eight-fold partition of space anchored the eight-fold division of time: eight forty-five segments made up the year, and each was governed by one the eight winds." Shigehisa Kuriyama

 

This quote comes from chapter one of this book:

"imagination of the winds and the chinese conception of the body"

 

Reading this gives some background to how the rule of 8 came to underpin every facet of chinese culture. In terms of qigong, the eight trigrams manifest as 8 basic functions of qi- raising, lowering, entering, exiting, gathering, dispersing, opening, closing. In terms of the eight directions, this gives the framework for the movement of qi- the eight points of the compass could be seen as the 'fixed directions' which correspond to the pre-heavenly aspects of our self, our macrocosmic self. There are also the 'subjective directions' which correspond to our own positioning in time and space- this is up, down, left, right, back, front, inner, outer- this is the post-heavenly aspect, the microcosmic. The interaction of the fixed and the subjective, the pre- and post-natal (8x8) gives us the 64 hexagrams.

 

A more detailed explanation of this can be found at www.traditionalstudies.org

 

a

[Stigweard]

Sure. Here's one of the most extreme examples I've encountered of a clash between Free Whim and Free Will which the I Ching stepped in to point out. When it is extreme, she may seem to make no sense in her response to your question, because there's a bigger question you need to be asking at the moment and she will ignore the "whimsical" one and answer the real one instead, the one you didn't know you needed to ask because you weren't attuned to the flow of time, space, and energy of the moment.

 

The question was whether a rock band ISO more visibility and success would benefit from changing its name. The answer was, "there's illness; one does not die." It made no sense until two weeks later, when the lead guitarist was diagnosed with a life-threatening illness. All Free Will there was went into deciding, time and time again, on the best treatment/healing strategies, and remained invested into that for a very long time. In the meantime, the band fell apart, and not only the original whimsical question about changing its name didn't matter, but its very existence didn't matter anymore. It existed due to Free Whim, which is oblivious of the true imperatives of the moment -- and these will demand an investment of Free Will because true imperatives of the moment run close to the core of existence -- at all times. When you know what they are, that's your field of application of your Free Will, and operating within that field will invariably cause Free Whim to fall away. When you don't know what they are, you handle every decision you make or refuse to make with Free Whim, and in this case Free Will plays no part in your life.

 

On a more mundane level, I have seen responses to divinations along the lines of "superior and inferior" choices -- meaning, e.g., that I could do what I was planning to do and it would indeed benefit the "inferior" aspects of my being but be detrimental to the "superior" aspects. So, e.g., avoiding a difficult task would be short-term advantageous and long-term stifling to my development. Or vice versa -- seeking to accomplish a difficult practical task would inconvenience my "superior" self (because, e.g., cultivation has to be put on hold) but place my "inferior" self in a more comfortable position. The I Ching doesn't tell me which course is "right" or "wrong" -- she shows me the field of applications for my Free Will, "you decide," so to speak. But she does show me the field of application of Free Will, not Free Whim. If the question is free-whimsical and there's no field of application for Free Will, she usually tells me something along the lines of "it doesn't really matter" or "use your own brain" or even "don't bother me with this again, I already told you before."

 

The "size" of the question is not what matters -- it can be very "small" -- I might consult her about highlighting my hair and she will detail the pro's and con's, giving me the "Adornment" chapter, e.g., there's nothing wrong with external yang applications, in the form of some peroxide, and she may support that if she likes the color she sees in her mind's eye. No, what matters is the "substance" of the question, its alignment with the "landscape of time" or, alternatively, the questioning (or non-questioning) party's failure to even notice it... She makes you notice it and start learning how to keep noticing it and paying attention to what it's like and charting your course accordingly, whether baby steps or huge leaps, everything. So that's how she teaches you... the understanding comes very gradually, and only with much practice, and only with divination practice and comparing your divination results with real-life events that unfold as you go -- and not with any "I Ching of the head" undertakings, not any "studies" that don't involve your very own real life. These are useless, IMO.

Well said TM ... my experience would concur with yours.

 

[Lost in Translation]

On 6/28/2011 at 1:53 PM, Aetherous said:

So for the past couple years I've had a question, which I've been trying to resolve on my own...

 

Basically, I don't know what the point of studying the I Ching is.

 

It seems like a really cool thing to know about...but I just don't see the point. Each time I pick up a book on it, all that I see is that it's a man made creation which has nothing to do with nature as I know it. I see that people use it as a divinatory tool, by tossing coins or stalks...but I don't personally need to consult oracles. I don't understand how it could benefit me in any way, or bring me any sort of useful knowledge.

 

On 6/28/2011 at 3:57 PM, Taomeow said:

I've been living with the I Ching for some ten years, so I'll try to answer your questions.

 

So, those who understand this book...what is your motivation for using it and studying it (besides divination)?

 

I believe she knows what I don't know and would like to know. E.g., who I am, where I come from, where I'm going... stuff like that.

 

Also, she is the voice of my Free Will. Too often people hear the voice of their Free Whim instead, which is really the voice of the demons-in-charge, assorted internalized controlling forces that bind them so skillfully that they don't realize someone or something foreign to their true nature is what's pulling the strings of action or non-action for them. They think it's their own decisions they are making... when in fact it's the deceitful Free Whim (free for the controlling forces, not for the controlled party!) that causes them to move or not move. A puppet on a string is free to move whimsically this way and that way... or at least that's what it thinks for as long as it's unaware of the strings... and, see, it's made just so as to mistake the internalized voices of its controlling demonic masters for the voice of its own Free Will.

 

The I Ching teaches you to tell the difference.

 

Bump!

 

This thread has some very good information, especially the quote above.

[zafrogzen]

I wrote something about my own experience with the I Ching awhile back which I think pertains to the OP. Anyone wishing to read the entire piece can find it here -- http://www.frogzen.com/uncategorized/lines-in-the-dust/

 

Here's some of it  --

 

"Although it is first and foremost a book of wisdom, using it for divination is the easiest way to access that wisdom. Reading it straight through doesn’t grab you the way getting personally involved does."

 

"I’ve come to view the I Ching as a teacher and trusted counselor that I can turn to, not just for guidance, but for insights into human nature and the path of meditation."

 

I also wrote -- "I prefer using plain old American pennies for throwing the I Ching. The Chinese coins with the square hole in the center, which are often recommended, strike me as contrived. Pennies are aptly symbolic, with heads (yang) on one side and in older coins an open temple for tails (yin) on the other side. Plus copper is a good conductor of energy. I’ve used the alternative yarrow stalk method but I don’t feel it works as well and it’s more labor intensive.

 

I get the best results when I reference the question I ask the I Ching to a specific situation or course of action -- like “What will happen if…?” I also throw it about people. When a new person enters my life the first throwing about them usually proves to be significant. However, I try to keep in mind that the I Ching is a book of “Changes,” so nothing is cast in stone — quite the contrary. What appears negative at first can turn out to be positive later on. Change is the only thing we can really count on."

 

Edited June 8, 2018 by zafrogzen

[OldDog]

On 6/7/2018 at 9:09 PM, zafrogzen said:

Chinese coins with the square hole in the center, which are often recommended, strike me as contrived.

 

I have often wondered about the round coins with square holes. Why not no holes at all or square coins with round holes, unless ....

 

Could it be that symbolically square refers to earth and round heaven so that the image is that of heaven over earth?