Sense of identity

[Edward M]

Hey Bums,

 

I've been struggling with having a solid sense of identity for about a decade now and it has caused all kinds of problems. For instance in the past i've replaced that loss with another identity, a false one.

 

This must be the case when people get locked up for believing they are Jesus or Ceaser etc..... What do you think makes up a solid sense of identity, what do you identify with and do you think it is an illusion or real?

 

Some identify with the religous/spiritual teacher they follow or rather being a follower is their identity. Some identify with the colour of their skin etc this all to me seems like labelling and is useful only for people other than them selves.

 

My opinion is Jesus said it best, when he said a man is his works.

 

Thanks

 

Ed

[Birch]

Well, IMO/IME a 'sense' of identity is a very felt thing. It's the 'here I am here' feeling. Not to be confuddled with the 'described identity' (which most of meditation is designed to drop anyway...)

 

So if you've been meditating to the point where none of your 'self-descriptions' sit well with your felt experience of yourself then I think it does get weird (if not terrifying) for a while and the traps you mention at this point are gaping wide (a guru, a teacher, a practice, a job, a gang, anything I guess).

 

I think some practices suggest intentionally taking on attributes of specific deities so you don't have to deal with this stuff. But really, is Diana the Huntress an effective figure in today's context? (I'm saying that for me;-) and while I have a bit of her attributes 'in me' I always have:-))

 

What I'm trying to get at is that I guess it might be more comfortable to figure yourself as Shiva or Hermes (or a rock-start banker or eco-warrier) but the down-side IMO is that you'd be missing out on the expression of your true-self. The one that came into the world and before it got told who it was by everyone else :-) Only you know who you are :-)

 

Still, there are people that can help you with signposts if you want. Check out TaoMeow's compass :-)

[doc benway]

I think that identity is a very useful psychological construct that comes from a combination of things. One is our sensory apparatus giving us a reference for being a finite, separate, individual entity that can be identified. Then there is our social and cultural conditioning that creates a sense of where we fit in with others. Finally, there is our total store of memories and knowledge. All of this seems to contribute to define our image of ourselves. This image (or story, if you will) that we create is what I would consider identity.

 

Not having a solid sense of identity could mean a lot of things I guess. One possibility is mental illness - depersonalization disorder is one possibility. Another possibility is having uprooted one's moorings with meditative practices. I'm sure there are others. I personally feel that it is valuable for a healthy psychological life to have a sense of identity and, at the same time, it is healthy from a spiritual perspective to see through the illusory nature of that identity so that we are not limited by it.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

In my psychologist hackery, I think that most people's issues with identity come about because everyone needs to feel like they are at least EFFECTIVE in the world. If they are grandiose or humble as a sage, one way or the other they have their place.

 

Most people are in the middle, and it's easy to get lost in the fray, especially when the majority of cultures pay so much attention to status in the world. But really, being concerned about status only gives away your true power by being subjected to such narcissistic games, and playing into the hand of the ones who DECIDE status. Thereby, if someone seeks this status, they have automatically ENSLAVED themselves to higher masters anyway, so what was the logic of that?

 

When you are free of the need to be part of the hierarchy, then you have real status, real power, real authority, and the easiest way to keep it that way is to keep it to yourself

[manitou]

 

When you are free of the need to be part of the hierarchy, then you have real status, real power, real authority, and the easiest way to keep it that way is to keep it to yourself

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

I've never had an identity, a real identity. Not until I stopped worrying about it and started to just Love everything there is.

 

Love, in this case, doesn't mean putting your nose in other people's business and fixing their lives. Sometimes it means telling the hard truth to someone in a kind way. Sometimes it means loving that person, even if they're despicable in some way. Allowing that person to be the despicable person that they can be. As can I. Love means recognizing that I not only have Mother Theresa within me, but also Jeffrey Dahmer.

 

When Edward said that Jesus said a man is his works, I partially agree with this. But I think that unless someone has truly done the inner work and eliminated the distortions within, that there is no longer a need to 'do work'. The work comes to you. We needn't go out there and look for it. My view of what Jesus meant is that a true man, a real human being, walks his talk.

[Otis]

Hey Bums,

 

I've been struggling with having a solid sense of identity for about a decade now and it has caused all kinds of problems. For instance in the past i've replaced that loss with another identity, a false one.

 

This must be the case when people get locked up for believing they are Jesus or Ceaser etc..... What do you think makes up a solid sense of identity, what do you identify with and do you think it is an illusion or real?

 

Some identify with the religous/spiritual teacher they follow or rather being a follower is their identity. Some identify with the colour of their skin etc this all to me seems like labelling and is useful only for people other than them selves.

 

My opinion is Jesus said it best, when he said a man is his works.

 

Thanks

 

Ed

Hi, Ed. You ask a very interesting question.

 

I think, to some degree, Lao Tzu was anticipating the question, and offers the sage, as the model to abide in, when the practitioner's self-image has grown thin.

 

I do think that all self-identity is false and misleading, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't serve a purpose. I think the Taoist sage identity is like training wheels, to help one align one's self, while the need for identity is still strong.

 

Ultimately, I think that any and all self-identity needs to go, if we want to be totally free. Identity is just another trap. But until the need is fully surrendered, as you point out, then it is tempting to hold on to something.

 

The identity that I find useful right now, is that of a student of the path. Within that identity is an alignment of what I am seeking (self-insight and growth) and what I am paying attention to (my internal resistance and need for control).

[Edward M]

Thanks for replying everyone!!!

 

Don't have enough mindspace right now to answer you all individually but let me clarify what i meant by the Jesus quote.

 

I take it to mean we are nothing but our effect on the world. Seeing as we individually on our own don't exist, we cannot sustain ourselves and we are all interconnected.. i guess we are all parts of one big identity and what we contribute to that identity/being is what we are, what we manifest.

 

PEace

 

Ed

[Harmonious Emptiness]

 

I take it to mean we are nothing but our effect on the world. Seeing as we individually on our own don't exist, we cannot sustain ourselves and we are all interconnected.. i guess we are all parts of one big identity and what we contribute to that identity/being is what we are, what we manifest.

 

PEace

 

Ed

 

I wouldnt use any philosophical logic to understand my identity. I am who I am because of how I handle emotions and feelings, imo. -God- still existed before creation was made according to legend. Thus we exist regardless of our awareness of other beings. We can exist more or less in relation to or according to other people, but that has no bearing on the fact that we do exist. This is why art is really important, and something you should probably get into more. Art allows you to tell your own story regardless of what other people say or don't say about you, and helps you to know yourself as YOU know yourself rather than how others want to see you or project their own shadows on you.

 

We exist without other people; it's just an unfulfilling existence with no experience without other people to share it with.

[RiverSnake]

To quote a fellow bum:

 

"In order to gain true power one must be willing to become nothing...The irony of that is as you work towards becoming nothing you realize how much something you really are."

Edited July 2, 2011 by OldGreen

[Kali Yuga]

The identity is a burden. It is a mental construct. As the fate of all mental constructs, they are born only when one learns to use the tools that are words. And they if you do not willingly give them up, are stripped of you when you die. Suffering comes when one mistakes words and images for reality. and the indentity is nothing more than that - an image.

 

As you come into this world, born beautiful and bright, there is no words; no identity, only you as what you really are - indescribable pure consciousness without differentiation. Only when you acquire the "learned self" that is a result of society's pressure upon you do you actually want or feel the need for an identity. An identity is a construct of the ego; it is nothing more than clinging to an image that fades in the wind.

Identities of even famous celebrities, pop-stars etc are nothing more than images construed upon them that they live up to. It's all fake; no one really has any true identity because an identity implies a separation from one person and another;a division behind what has always been limitless.

 

An identity has uses, but it is infinitely clumsy compared to a no-identity. He who has an identity feels shame, remorse, guilt, envy, and all the negative emotions because of the clinging to the imaginary false self. He who ascribes to no identity, however is free. He does not feel lack, or envy or anger at other slighting him, because he does not defend a ghost of his imagination.

 

Just as the strong wind breaks the strong rigid tree; so does tribulation break one who has a sole identity. But the non identity does not break in the gale; it has no form and thus cannot be broken. An identity that you own, ends up owning YOU.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Kali Yuga

[Aaron]

Hey Bums,

 

I've been struggling with having a solid sense of identity for about a decade now and it has caused all kinds of problems. For instance in the past i've replaced that loss with another identity, a false one.

 

This must be the case when people get locked up for believing they are Jesus or Ceaser etc..... What do you think makes up a solid sense of identity, what do you identify with and do you think it is an illusion or real?

 

Some identify with the religous/spiritual teacher they follow or rather being a follower is their identity. Some identify with the colour of their skin etc this all to me seems like labelling and is useful only for people other than them selves.

 

My opinion is Jesus said it best, when he said a man is his works.

 

Thanks

 

Ed

 

 

Hello Ed,

 

A man is judged by his works, but he isn't his works. In regards to identity, if you have questions about your own, then write down what you believe you are. The identity is not a weight or burden, but rather our way of understanding our place in the world around us. There is also evidence that our sense of identity effects our ability to interact with others.

 

I know this sounds corny, but the best cure for poor self-identity is self affirmations. When you get up in the morning, look in a mirror and tell yourself something positive about you. "I am a kind person" or "I am smart". This helps remind us of our actual qualities.

 

In regards to the identity being a burden, the ego is a burden, our identity is merely an illusion.

 

Aaron

[Wynn]

Identity is self. It is the ego/super ego structure. It is false.

 

Let go of all beliefs, they are anchors keeping you stuck. Lose the raft too, and you will be free.