Need help getting started.

[Nihro]

Hello all,

 

I have just recently become interested in learning more about Taoism due to my kung fu training and love for philosophy. I was hoping someone could possibly direct me towards some readings and maybe provide a little guidance as to the wheres and hows of beginning this exploration. I understand life in and of itself is an exploration of self and motivation and I have learned much along my way yet I am still young and inexperienced and am unsure where to begin. Any help would be greatly appreciated and questions are of course welcome.

 

Thanks.

[phore]

The tao-te-ching is our classic philosophy book. The chuang tzu points to some deep wisdom as well. I like thomas clearys translations.

Alfred Huangs I-ching is great too.

 

Of course if you practice kung fu you will probaly be interested in qigong to supplement your practice. I recommend http://kundaliniawakeningprocess.com/ for a comprehensive course in qigong. Mantak chia presents many of the concepts in his books as well.

 

The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

-lao tzu

 

Many blessings along your spiritual path

Edited June 30, 2011 by phore

[manitou]

The tao-te-ching is our classic philosophy book. The chuang tzu points to some deep wisdom as well. I like thomas clearys translations.

Alfred Huangs I-ching is great too.

 

Of course if you practice kung fu you will probaly be interested in qigong to supplement your practice. I recommend http://kundaliniawakeningprocess.com/ for a comprehensive course in qigong. Mantak chia presents many of the concepts in his books as well.

 

The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

-lao tzu

 

Many blessings along your spiritual path

 

 

My suggestion would be to read several translations of the Tao Te Ching. It seems that different interpretations not only interdepend on language translation, but also the viewpoint and spiritual understanding of the translator. I think it's a little easier to triangulate the essence if you have more than one viewpoint to work with. The TTC isn't very long - it's easily internalized once understood. And I would couple this with the inner work, which it seems that you are already doing if I read your words correctly.

 

The essence of the Tao is formlessness; you won't find dogma or a delineated path here. The essence is hidden and the prize is learning to accomplish by Not-Doing, which is called wu-wei and is a real enigma to anyone who has not done the inner work.

 

Very best to you, and glad you're here...

 

Manitou

[Nihro]

Thanks much for the suggestions. I suppose internal work is my goal, most of my life has been traumatic and somewhat complicated so I've been seeking simplicity and spontaneity in the recent years. I'm beginning to thoroughly believe that our world and the people inside of it are largely dependent upon our own consciousness and the bridge between internal and external action. When I was younger I had lost faith in humanity for a bit but I made some good friends who helped me learn that at best most people begin as blank pages and the rest is defined through right action and motivation. I've been contemplating this idea for the past few years trying to find a balance between optimism and pessimism or realism versus idealism and that's what ultimately lead me towards Taoism, I read some Buddhist authors but found it to be too pessimistic and struggle focused. I have seen struggle and that has enveloped most of my life but I have learned that building an ideology around darkness kills creation and there runs a risk of becoming enveloped in your own thought processes causing our own natural energies to hit a stand still. That's what happened to me anyway.

 

I made the conscious decision to maintain positivity through honorable actions and helping others, and once that decision became more engrained within my own subconscious I noticed a great shift both in my own personal opportunities and the opportunities of the lives which we all touch through human interaction. I'm starting to believe that there may not be any concrete truths in life, rather this world exists as a means of creation and creation is dependent on many variables but the most important variable is simple: you get what you give. Sorry for the long winded reply to a simple question, I'm trying to develop the instinctual drive of jumping into life head first. Of course this a difficult task.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Nihro

[doc benway]

When I first started digging into Daoism, I couldn't really get too excited about the Dao De Jing or Zhuang Zi.

I then read "When the Shoe Fits: Stories of the Taoist Mystic Chuang-Tzu" by Osho. It blew me away.

It helped me to begin to understand how to approach Daoism in particular, and the entire spiritual journey in general.

Highly recommended.

[C T]

I read some Buddhist authors but found it to be too pessimistic and struggle focused.

You may have ventured down the alley to the valley of doom thru being misinformed. Its ok though... Buddhism says in life there are never any dead-ends, so anytime someone is ready, U-turns are there to be taken

 

Some of the more inspiring contemporary Buddhist authors/thinkers whose works speak volumes in themselves - if you still have the appetite - Thich Nhat Hanh, Sogyal Rinpoche, Jon Kabat-Zinn, D.T. Suzuki, Norman Fischer, Donald Lopez Jr., Grace Schireson, and last but not least, HH the Dalai Lama himself... their books are anything but pessimistic.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

See the book club forum from the home page.

[Aaron]

I would recommend reading several translations of the Tao Teh Ching, my personal favorite was John Wu's translation, but there are many good ones. I also like Alan Watts a great deal and any book he's written will be a good source of information. I find most Buddhist books to be very pessimistic as well, but I really do appreciate Zen a great deal, perhaps you might want to check out some books on that as well, since they are both closely related (Tao and Zen that is).

 

Aaron

Edited July 1, 2011 by Twinner

[Nihro]

Cowtow: I still have an appetite for Buddhism but I think I'll focus on this for now, not trying to bite off too much at once. I will definitely check those authors out once I've absorbed a bit of the basic though thanks for the recommendations. To be fair when I was reading about Buddhism I was getting heavily into Nietzsche and it may have colored things incorrectly for me. I just don't believe that focusing constantly on the idea of struggle is healthy though I have experience more than my fair share of that aspect of life and am somewhat lucky in that regard.

 

Twinner: I've never really read much about Zen, I've read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance a few times but that's about as deep as my education goes. Do you have a specific Zen book in mind? I believe I read a little of Alan Watts in my religion class during sophomore year of college though I don't think we went too deep into the study as the teacher was more interested in focusing on Christianity.

 

My friend lent me an old copy of the Tao Te Ching translated by Raymond Blakney so I'm about to begin reading that first. Admittedly my studies in philosophy have been largely western based thus far and I suppose I've neglected the eastern side except for obvious texts like "The Art of War" and The Book of Five Rings. Most of my eastern philosophy comes from practicing martial arts and that focus has been more external hard arts such as kung fu and karate and less on the internal arts, I've recently added Tai Chi to my practices though so that should be interesting.

[Aaron]

Cowtow: I still have an appetite for Buddhism but I think I'll focus on this for now, not trying to bite off too much at once. I will definitely check those authors out once I've absorbed a bit of the basic though thanks for the recommendations. To be fair when I was reading about Buddhism I was getting heavily into Nietzsche and it may have colored things incorrectly for me. I just don't believe that focusing constantly on the idea of struggle is healthy though I have experience more than my fair share of that aspect of life and am somewhat lucky in that regard.

 

Twinner: I've never really read much about Zen, I've read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance a few times but that's about as deep as my education goes. Do you have a specific Zen book in mind? I believe I read a little of Alan Watts in my religion class during sophomore year of college though I don't think we went too deep into the study as the teacher was more interested in focusing on Christianity.

 

My friend lent me an old copy of the Tao Te Ching translated by Raymond Blakney so I'm about to begin reading that first. Admittedly my studies in philosophy have been largely western based thus far and I suppose I've neglected the eastern side except for obvious texts like "The Art of War" and The Book of Five Rings. Most of my eastern philosophy comes from practicing martial arts and that focus has been more external hard arts such as kung fu and karate and less on the internal arts, I've recently added Tai Chi to my practices though so that should be interesting.

 

Hello Nihro,

 

You might want to check out the website Terebess Asia Online, it's a great source of Taoist texts, including over forty translations of the Tao Teh Ching. As far as Alan Watts goes, I would recommend "The Watercourse Way" for Taoism and "The Way of Zen" for Zen. Another book by Watts that I recommend everyone read is "The Book- On the Taboo of Knowing Who You Are", which is based on Vedanta Hinduism, but really helps you to understand much of what's talked about in Taoism and Buddhism more clearly. If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask. We also have a Tao Teh Ching subforum you might want to visit, especially if you have questions about a specific passage in the Tao Teh Ching.

 

I'd like to say something profound now to encourage you, but the best thing I can think of is, ask lots of questions and if you don't think you understand, then you probably understand more than you might think.

 

Aaron

Edited July 1, 2011 by Twinner

[orb]

If you need help to really get started - find a teacher not a book.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I second the Alan Watts recommendations for getting started especially. From there, note the people and texts that he talks about and check them out. The Sutra of Hui Neng is one of the most original sources for Zen. Also, check out more than just the Zen side of Buddhism since the "no mind" is more fulfilling when combined with all the other virtues that are not mentioned so much with Zen where clarity is sought as a means to the other virtues -- whereas, going by what I've read in Sutras, the clarity of Zen seemed to be taught as a more advanced lesson after the other virtues were apparent. That said, Zen clarity can be experienced from time to time no matter how much experience you have with Buddhism. "Emptiness is the house of spiritual light."

 

A good teacher will be the most expedient, but in today's landscape I would check out some original sources so you have a better idea how deep the teacher's knowledge really is. It seems to me that the one's with the most diluted lineages generally charge the most $$$, but there are several exceptions to this.

[Nihro]

I second the Alan Watts recommendations for getting started especially. From there, note the people and texts that he talks about and check them out. The Sutra of Hui Neng is one of the most original sources for Zen. Also, check out more than just the Zen side of Buddhism since the "no mind" is more fulfilling when combined with all the other virtues that are not mentioned so much with Zen where clarity is sought as a means to the other virtues -- whereas, going by what I've read in Sutras, the clarity of Zen seemed to be taught as a more advanced lesson after the other virtues were apparent. That said, Zen clarity can be experienced from time to time no matter how much experience you have with Buddhism. "Emptiness is the house of spiritual light."

 

A good teacher will be the most expedient, but in today's landscape I would check out some original sources so you have a better idea how deep the teacher's knowledge really is. It seems to me that the one's with the most diluted lineages generally charge the most $$$, but there are several exceptions to this.

 

Unfortunately I can't afford to do something like that right now, I'm on my summer break from GMU going into my senior year and money's tight at the moment. Had to drop martial arts for the summer and move back home until next semester so I've been practicing on my own hitting the heavy bag and sparring with friends in between form practices and so on. Thankfully I have more than enough time to read though so cracking through some material should be fun. How does one go about locating a teacher anyway?

Edited July 1, 2011 by Nihro

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Unfortunately I can't afford to do something like that right now, I'm on my summer break from GMU going into my senior year and money's tight at the moment. Had to drop martial arts for the summer and move back home until next semester so I've been practicing on my own hitting the heavy bag and sparring with friends in between form practices and so on. Thankfully I have more than enough time to read though so cracking through some material should be fun. How does one go about locating a teacher anyway?

 

Hey man, if you have access to a University library, just find out where the Taoist and Buddhist stuff is and poke through everything until you find the gems. Same goes for most large libraries. There's usually tons of good stuff there.

 

For finding a teacher, it depends. You could start with local Zen or other Buddhist centers around you where you might find a well trained abbot who will instruct you in meditation and Buddhist philosophy. For Taoism, you'll probably want to start with a Qi Gong, Tai Chi, or Alchemy instructor, and continue with the Buddhist instruction. There are also some well trained, experienced, and wise instructors on this site if you want to learn internal arts like Qi Gong, Alchemy, Tai Chi, and some of the philosophy that comes along with them. There's also a lot of free advice from hobbyists like myself. Actually I'm probably more of a hobbyist than the majority of people who respond here, which is why I spend so much damn time here!!

Edited July 2, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Aaron]

Hello Nihro,

 

I'm not sure why I haven't mentioned it before, but if you're interested in Zen, you might want to visit Zen Forum International. They have some great reference material there on Zen. As far as teachers go, I would suggest reading up on Taoism and Buddhism before you go looking for a teacher. Most will expect some kind of compensation (and rightfully so), so decide if it's for you first and then spend your hard earned money.

 

Aaron

Edited July 2, 2011 by Twinner