Engaged Buddhism

[C T]

Not too long ago, i came across a poster here who said Buddhism has lost touch with humanity by being too focussed on personal liberation. Reading this blog below, which touched me deeply, my faith was restored in the fact that there are some Dharma Bums who proactively proof the nay-sayers wrong. Perhaps those who make a living from preaching about the highest compassion, among other lesser generosities, could learn a thing or two about what it means to get down and dirty with compassion.

 

http://www.hmpstreetdharma.org/steet-dharma-blog/the-one

Edited July 1, 2011 by CowTao

[Gerard]

Personal liberation first, then offer advice to those who are ready. The unawakened are not going to help you for sure neither a Buddha will. Ask this man how to help you cross the dark night:

 

 

 

Each to their own and learn how to rely on your own effort.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Gerard

[Aaron]

Personal liberation first, then help those who are ready. The unawakened are not going to help you for sure. Ask this man how to help you cross the dark night:

 

 

 

Each to their own.

 

A part of personal awakening (imo) comes from being compassionate to those who suffer (right action I think it's called, but I might be mistaken). To me this just sounds like an excuse to ignore anything that makes you feel uncomfortable.

 

(Also, I'm not a hypocrite, I do, and have done, a great deal of charity work with homeless and addicts and nothing in the world grounds you like witnessing those who suffer and helping to ease that suffering. You definitely get a clearer view of what suffering really is, rather than the hypothetical bantering that you hear in certain places. Of course the person you help really needs to want help or in most cases your time is wasted.)

 

Aaron

 

edit- I also want to add that if you don't want to help someone, then don't, just don't make excuses for not wanting to.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Twinner

[Harmonious Emptiness]

A part of personal awakening (imo) comes from being compassionate to those who suffer (right action I think it's called, but I might be mistaken). To me this just sounds like an excuse to ignore anything that makes you feel uncomfortable.

 

(Also, I'm not a hypocrite, I do, and have done, a great deal of charity work with homeless and addicts and nothing in the world grounds you like witnessing those who suffer and helping to ease that suffering. You definitely get a clearer view of what suffering really is, rather than the hypothetical bantering that you hear in certain places. Of course the person you help really needs to want help or in most cases your time is wasted.)

 

Aaron

 

edit- I also want to add that if you don't want to help someone, then don't, just don't make excuses for not wanting to.

 

Agreed. The place mentioned is just sort of a sanctuary where people can go to meditate and maybe receive some basic instructions. Looks like it would be well welcomed by a lot of people and maybe help to ease some suffering too. Formalized sitting meditation does a lot of good in prisons to help people deal with a few of the same difficulties. It's a great idea, and provides more options. mo.

[C T]

Personal liberation first, then offer advice to those who are ready. The unawakened are not going to help you for sure neither a Buddha will. Ask this man how to help you cross the dark night:

 

Personal liberation could well arise from engaging in noble/virtuous deeds, one of the spokes that complete the Dharmacakra. Right Action.

 

This is not about offering advice... its about doing something to make another's life a little more dignified. Its tough being homeless, and high wisdom is not a prerequisite to offering a hand (or two) where one can.

 

I share Twinner's and H.E.'s position. Thanks guys!

Edited July 1, 2011 by CowTao

[Jetsun]

Personal liberation could well arise from engaging in noble/virtuous deeds, one of the spokes that complete the Dharmacakra. Right Action.

 

This is not about offering advice... its about doing something to make another's life a little more dignified. Its tough being homeless, and high wisdom is not a prerequisite to offering a hand (or two) where one can.

 

I share Twinner's and H.E.'s position. Thanks guys!

 

My view is that any spiritual benefit at all from such charity depends on your deep inner motivations (often hidden deep in the subconscious), for if you serve others out of guilt or a sense of being unworthy like many Christian missionaries and even some of their "Saints" do then it would be better off for the world and you yourself to face up to that guilt and lack of worth inside of you rather than try fill that hole in your soul with charitable outward deeds.

 

Perhaps you do such charity to get a sense of moral superiority over other people, or on some subtle level you are expecting something in return like removal of personal karma or entry to heaven, all of which are not pure charitable motivations, because if you do something with the expectation of reward on some level then it is just another form of slavery to the expectation and belief so you are just trapping yourself in the cycle on samsara on a more subtle level . So the only truely charitable act is when you give with absolutely no expectation of reward in any form, but who can genuinely say they are that charitable? who can really give their time, energy and life with no self concern or expectation of reward from their efforts?

[C T]

My view is that any spiritual benefit at all from such charity depends on your deep inner motivations (often hidden deep in the subconscious), for if you serve others out of guilt or a sense of being unworthy like many Christian missionaries and even some of their "Saints" do then it would be better off for the world and you yourself to face up to that guilt and lack of worth inside of you rather than try fill that hole in your soul with charitable outward deeds.

 

Perhaps you do such charity to get a sense of moral superiority over other people, or on some subtle level you are expecting something in return like removal of personal karma or entry to heaven, all of which are not pure charitable motivations, because if you do something with the expectation of reward on some level then it is just another form of slavery to the expectation and belief so you are just trapping yourself in the cycle on samsara on a more subtle level . So the only truely charitable act is when you give with absolutely no expectation of reward in any form, but who can genuinely say they are that charitable? who can really give their time, energy and life with no self concern or expectation of reward from their efforts?

I concur, and share this view completely. Thanks for highlighting all the nuances involved, J.

 

At the highest level (arhats/bodhisattvas) thru the deep realization of the 3 Marks, every action taken at that level arises from Equanimity, that is, seeing others as equally deserving or more deserving of satisfaction than oneself. At that point, all subtle dualities of self and other would have dissolved, so there is no possibility of ensuing mental complications. The motives would have been totally purified already.

[RiverSnake]

I was reading in Core Teachings of the Buddha that there are three primary teachings:

 

1. Morality

2. Concentration

3. Wisdom

 

 

It is said that Morality is the First and Last teaching. No matter how cultivated you are you can learn more on morality.

 

-Knowing how to balance ones own needs with the needs of others?

 

-Knowing when to let go of people whom you can't help?

 

-Knowing how to have the best and most positive impact on society?..etc

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited July 1, 2011 by OldGreen

[Aaron]

My view is that any spiritual benefit at all from such charity depends on your deep inner motivations (often hidden deep in the subconscious), for if you serve others out of guilt or a sense of being unworthy like many Christian missionaries and even some of their "Saints" do then it would be better off for the world and you yourself to face up to that guilt and lack of worth inside of you rather than try fill that hole in your soul with charitable outward deeds.

 

Perhaps you do such charity to get a sense of moral superiority over other people, or on some subtle level you are expecting something in return like removal of personal karma or entry to heaven, all of which are not pure charitable motivations, because if you do something with the expectation of reward on some level then it is just another form of slavery to the expectation and belief so you are just trapping yourself in the cycle on samsara on a more subtle level . So the only truely charitable act is when you give with absolutely no expectation of reward in any form, but who can genuinely say they are that charitable? who can really give their time, energy and life with no self concern or expectation of reward from their efforts?

 

 

Hello Jetsun,

 

I disagree with some of what you said. Yes, you should have a sincere motivation towards helping others, but I don't think that helping others is ever wasted, because someone does benefit, even if it's not you. There's also the idea that you practice so that it can become a natural action. Just like you practice meditation so that you can become more adept, so to you should practice compassion, even if the desire to practice may not be there, because the more you practice the more natural it will become. Many believe that compassion at its highest form is not driven by empathy or emotional attachment, but rather an innate understanding of the cause of suffering and a sincere motive to ease it. Other than that little bit, I agree, it's important to understand why you are doing anything.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

I was reading in Core Teachings of the Buddha that there are three primary teachings:

 

1. Morality

2. Concentration

3. Wisdom

 

 

It is said that Morality is the first and last teaching. No matter how cultivated you are you can learn more on morality.

 

-Knowing how to balance ones own needs with the needs of others?

 

-Knowing when to let go of people whom you can't help?

 

-Knowing how to have the best and most positive impact on society?..etc

 

My 2 cents, Peace

 

 

This is great advice. One thing you learn early on when you work with addicts is that you can't help everyone and there are so many people that need help, that sometimes you have to let some people go so that you can help those who want the help. Also it's very hard to help others if you're not helping yourself. If you are sick, emotionally or physically it is important to meet those needs as well. Yes helping others can help you emotionally (which can benefit you physically) but you really should be in a position to help others first.

 

As for "Knowing how to have the best and most positive impact on society?", that's perhaps the hardest thing for most people to understand.

 

Aaron

[JustARandomPanda]

Perhaps you do such charity to get a sense of moral superiority over other people, or on some subtle level you are expecting something in return like removal of personal karma or entry to heaven, all of which are not pure charitable motivations, because if you do something with the expectation of reward on some level then it is just another form of slavery to the expectation and belief so you are just trapping yourself in the cycle on samsara on a more subtle level . So the only truely charitable act is when you give with absolutely no expectation of reward in any form, but who can genuinely say they are that charitable? who can really give their time, energy and life with no self concern or expectation of reward from their efforts?

 

 

To hold someone to that high a standard I think would cut out many charitable acts and giving. I myself am nowhere near to being a selfless saint or boddhisattva. We all have to start somewhere. My money sure does count to a banker or creditor no matter what my motivations/expectations are and they're quite eager to take it. I'm pretty sure it equally counts toward facilitating charitable work for a charity. Likewise with time.

[doc benway]

My view is that any spiritual benefit at all from such charity depends on your deep inner motivations (often hidden deep in the subconscious), for if you serve others out of guilt or a sense of being unworthy like many Christian missionaries and even some of their "Saints" do then it would be better off for the world and you yourself to face up to that guilt and lack of worth inside of you rather than try fill that hole in your soul with charitable outward deeds.

 

Perhaps you do such charity to get a sense of moral superiority over other people, or on some subtle level you are expecting something in return like removal of personal karma or entry to heaven, all of which are not pure charitable motivations, because if you do something with the expectation of reward on some level then it is just another form of slavery to the expectation and belief so you are just trapping yourself in the cycle on samsara on a more subtle level . So the only truely charitable act is when you give with absolutely no expectation of reward in any form, but who can genuinely say they are that charitable? who can really give their time, energy and life with no self concern or expectation of reward from their efforts?

This is a critically important point in developing awareness about ourselves.

It doesn't really matter whether or not a reward is involved.

 

I subscribe to Anthony Demello's view on charity.

All charity is selfish - 100%.

Until you see this, you are not in touch with what motivates you.

 

There are two types of "selfishness" -

1. When I give myself the pleasure of pleasing myself - this is what we usually consider selfish

2. When I give myself the pleasure of pleasing others - this is what we usually call charity

 

When looked at carefully, both are a form of pleasing oneself - one is just a bit more refined than the other.

It does not mean that either is better or worse, good are bad, both are equally valid but should simply be viewed with accuracy.

[RiverSnake]

2. When I give myself the pleasure of pleasing others - this is what we usually call charity

 

When looked at carefully, both are a form of pleasing oneself - one is just a bit more refined than the other.

It does not mean that either is better or worse, good are bad, both are equally valid but should simply be viewed with accuracy.

 

 

When pursuing or finding ones life purpose it is important to start with things you enjoy doing. I enjoy healing and helping others it makes me happy, i get gratification from doing it. Is this selfish?

 

I think there is a difference.

 

-One can give and receive from the ego

 

-Or one can give and receive from the heart

 

-There is no AUTONOMOUS giving and receiving. Though the intent can come from different places. Some peoples rewards are higher than those of the purely physical, rewards can be spiritual.

 

-I suppose one can call it giving from Yin or Yang...Heaven or Earth.

Edited July 1, 2011 by OldGreen

[johndoe2012]

-One can give and receive from the ego

 

-Or one can give and receive from the heart

 

yes, this is true.

 

I guess steve f was talking about the first point?