Let's say you're new to energetic practices

[Mahberry]

Let's say someone approaches you for your expertise in energetic work and would like you to structure a program so they can experience their energetic body as fast and as safe as possible, what would you recommend them to do?

 

Is it possible to do this without very difficult postures or complicated movements (absolutely learnable without a teacher)?

 

Said person also willing to put in enormous amount of time and go celibate as long as required.

 

I think this is basically a think of what you would have done if you weren't so uninformed when you first started question.

 

So, PLEASE, HELP ME OUT HERE!

[Aetherous]

To experience energy flow quickly and safely, this:

 

 

But once you can experience your internal energy, it's a matter of what you want to do with it. Some use it to heal others, some use it for internal alchemy, some just to feel buzzy all the time, some for manifesting, etc.

 

If you are teaching people, you should already have practices that you do which are effective...so I don't know what else to say!

[fiveelementtao]

The best advice I can give you since you are brand new is... Find someone in your area and train IN PERSON with a qualified teacher. Whether that be yoga, Tai Chi, Qigong, meditation... Whatever. BEFORE you start looking for the "fastest, best way" etc... If you are prepared to work as hard as you say, you can put some effort into finding a teacher. Get some fundamental knowledge before trying to become an overnight expert from books or videos...After getting some basics understood, THEN you will be better equipped to start experimenting with books or videos...

[Birch]

To experience energy flow quickly and safely, this:

 

 

But once you can experience your internal energy, it's a matter of what you want to do with it. Some use it to heal others, some use it for internal alchemy, some just to feel buzzy all the time, some for manifesting, etc.

 

If you are teaching people, you should already have practices that you do which are effective...so I don't know what else to say!

 

Good choice :-)

 

Yeah, weird that you're being asked and have to come up with the goods quick. How did that happen?

[Otis]

Let's say someone approaches you for your expertise in energetic work and would like you to structure a program so they can experience their energetic body as fast and as safe as possible, what would you recommend them to do?

I would recommend that they dance. In particular, I would recommend finding one of the many "barefoot boogies" across the world, in which the ethic is "dance as though no one is watching". I would suggest that they base their dance entirely on how their body feels, in each moment; that they add as little extraneous effort as possible to the activity. Follow the flow when moving, and listen to what keeps moving, when they stand still. Do their best to surrender worry about appearances, and instead base everything on how they feel.

 

I would also advocate thinking of the "energy body" as only a metaphor, that the physical and energetic are just different perspectives on the same thing, in the same way that a photon can be "particle" or "wave", depending upon how we observe it. I would say, instead of thinking about either perspective literally, just use the metaphors of energy and fluid, to help shift their relationship to their bodies. Listen to flow, rather than to body parts.

 

I would advocate delicious stretches, and suggest that there is no concrete difference between authentic dance and stretch. In both, it is the interplay of resistance vs. ease that carves out the vectors of movement. In both, the body is best served, when the mind is not trying to make something happen, but is rather curious and playful in its willingness to take a ride on whatever capacity the body has, right now. Start with what's available, don't force anything, be patient, enjoy the journey.

[doc benway]

 

I would also advocate thinking of the "energy body" as only a metaphor, that the physical and energetic are just different perspectives on the same thing, in the same way that a photon can be "particle" or "wave", depending upon how we observe it. I would say, instead of thinking about either perspective literally, just use the metaphors of energy and fluid, to help shift their relationship to their bodies. Listen to flow, rather than to body parts.

 

Well spoken!

 

My advice regarding the OP would be standing meditation.

Very natural and comfortable posture.

Open all sensory awareness - total yin.

Feel...

When the mind gets distracted, let the content go, relax, smile, return to now...

Just feel and smell and taste and hear... - everything inside and everything outside..

Try and gradually build up to practicing this for 20 - 30 minutes, for most it will take a few months to do it comfortably.

I think this is a good basic foundation for discovering perception of "energy"

[Ya Mu]

Let's say someone approaches you for your expertise in energetic work and would like you to structure a program so they can experience their energetic body as fast and as safe as possible, what would you recommend them to do?

 

Is it possible to do this without very difficult postures or complicated movements (absolutely learnable without a teacher)?

 

Said person also willing to put in enormous amount of time and go celibate as long as required.

 

I think this is basically a think of what you would have done if you weren't so uninformed when you first started question.

 

So, PLEASE, HELP ME OUT HERE!

What would YOU do if someone came up to you and asked you to put together for them a program in brain surgery? Would you do so or suggest they go to medical school? Or in learning to play football? Would you do so or suggest to them to go for proper training? Or how about bone manipulation? Would you do so or tell them best to go to a chiropractic, osteopathic, or Chinese Tui Na school? Or how about learning the skill of belly dancing? Would you do so or tell them to go for training? What about if someone came up to you and asked for a program in cutting hair? Would you put that together? Wonder what kind of response you would get if you asked in those respective forums?

 

What comes of this sort of thing is the hundreds of sad posts,"Help me, I did such and such and it really screwed me up. What can I do?

We really should have a sticky of the summation of the those types of posts over the last several years.

 

I get requests for help all the time from people screwed up from practicing something from a book or something they read on the internet, who think the practice of energetics is something ... you know, I don't know just what the heck they think - in fact,IMO they aren't thinking at all.

[Mahberry]

Good choice :-)

 

Yeah, weird that you're being asked and have to come up with the goods quick. How did that happen?

Not quick as in overnight success, just something that wouldn't take an entire year before the first sign of progress. I'm looking for something safe and sure because I've read from excerpts here and there about people damaging themselves overpacking chi into their bodies. Since hindsight is always perfect, it's only common sense to ask people who've already done it, right?

 

Thanks for the replies. All advices taken to heart.

[Stigweard]

Let's say someone approaches you for your expertise in energetic work and would like you to structure a program so they can experience their energetic body as fast and as safe as possible, what would you recommend them to do?

 

Is it possible to do this without very difficult postures or complicated movements (absolutely learnable without a teacher)?

 

Said person also willing to put in enormous amount of time and go celibate as long as required.

 

I think this is basically a think of what you would have done if you weren't so uninformed when you first started question.

 

So, PLEASE, HELP ME OUT HERE!

Learn the Dao of the body first. The Dao of Qi is merely a natural extension of this.

 

By this I mean learn how the body naturally moves. Learn Tai Chi or if that is unavailable learn Kung Fu or even dance. Learn the natural relaxation and grace of the body - this will get your mind right to handle energy properly.

 

Too many people, and we see them all the time here, try and jump in and "feel energy" way too soon. It's actually relatively easy to experience the energy body, but what happens when you haven't connected with the body properly is that you bring all your artificial thinking into the world of Qi and you start sending it in all the wrong directions in your ignorant attempts to "make it do something."

 

So learn to be ziran, natural and spontaneous, in your body first. Connect your breathing with your movements then Qi will happen all by itself. I would recommend anyone not to try and frig around with their "energy" until they have achieved this basic foundation.

 

[Ya Mu]

If the energy body is only a metaphor then I guess the physical body is as well. So, since it is a metaphor, seems like there would be no problem walking out in the street in front of traffic. How could a truck hurt a metaphor?

[Birch]

Not quick as in overnight success, just something that wouldn't take an entire year before the first sign of progress. I'm looking for something safe and sure because I've read from excerpts here and there about people damaging themselves overpacking chi into their bodies. Since hindsight is always perfect, it's only common sense to ask people who've already done it, right?

 

Thanks for the replies. All advices taken to heart.

 

Point taken. So what are you up to with this 'energy' stuff? I'm only asking because if you're attempting to teach other people it does make sense to have sort of 'experience' in it. No offense

[Birch]

I would recommend that they dance. In particular, I would recommend finding one of the many "barefoot boogies" across the world, in which the ethic is "dance as though no one is watching". I would suggest that they base their dance entirely on how their body feels, in each moment; that they add as little extraneous effort as possible to the activity. Follow the flow when moving, and listen to what keeps moving, when they stand still. Do their best to surrender worry about appearances, and instead base everything on how they feel.

 

I would also advocate thinking of the "energy body" as only a metaphor, that the physical and energetic are just different perspectives on the same thing, in the same way that a photon can be "particle" or "wave", depending upon how we observe it. I would say, instead of thinking about either perspective literally, just use the metaphors of energy and fluid, to help shift their relationship to their bodies. Listen to flow, rather than to body parts.

 

I would advocate delicious stretches, and suggest that there is no concrete difference between authentic dance and stretch. In both, it is the interplay of resistance vs. ease that carves out the vectors of movement. In both, the body is best served, when the mind is not trying to make something happen, but is rather curious and playful in its willingness to take a ride on whatever capacity the body has, right now. Start with what's available, don't force anything, be patient, enjoy the journey.

 

"barefoot boogies"

 

How do I find those???

[Mahberry]

Point taken. So what are you up to with this 'energy' stuff? I'm only asking because if you're attempting to teach other people it does make sense to have sort of 'experience' in it. No offense

I've been doing vipassana for a year now, there's some weird runaway energy that I feel originating from the sole of my left foot and rushes up to midway to my spine if I tilt my pelvis when it happens. It happens very very infrequently, like once every 2 weeks. It doesn't seem like it can be controlled and I don't see it affecting any places that Taoist or Hindu practices would mention like the perineum, lower dantien, tip of the tailbone, etc.

 

And still I'm a skeptic to this entire energetic body thing, so I thought I'll throw in an enormous amount of time practicing it for good measure just to prove if it's real. All these trust issues about energetic practices comes from years of hanging out in Buddhist forums reading people debating and intellectualizing about no self, non duality and the whole shebang, posing as very enlightened people. It's scary knowing how much people can convince themselves about how much they know about something they don't.

 

I've been a shut in for quite some time before this, so impressing/helping people isn't really part of my agenda. It's mostly me me me me me now.

[Birch]

I've been doing vipassana for a year now, there's some weird runaway energy that I feel originating from the sole of my left foot and rushes up to midway to my spine if I tilt my pelvis when it happens. It happens very very infrequently, like once every 2 weeks. It doesn't seem like it can be controlled and I don't see it affecting any places that Taoist or Hindu practices would mention like the perineum, lower dantien, tip of the tailbone, etc.

 

And still I'm a skeptic to this entire energetic body thing, so I thought I'll throw in an enormous amount of time practicing it for good measure just to prove if it's real. All these trust issues about energetic practices comes from years of hanging out in Buddhist forums reading people debating and intellectualizing about no self, non duality and the whole shebang, posing as very enlightened people. It's scary knowing how much people can convince themselves about how much they know about something they don't.

 

I've been a shut in for quite some time before this, so impressing/helping people isn't really part of my agenda. It's mostly me me me me me now.

 

Right, so do you mean 'someone' as in 'me'?

[Mahberry]

Right, so do you mean 'someone' as in 'me'?

What are you refering to?

[Birch]

What are you refering to?

Well, you!

That's exactly what I mean.

[Mahberry]

Well, you!

That's exactly what I mean.

Oh oh, my original post.

 

I thought I'd get a less heated and targeted response if I ask that way. Haha.

 

People get slightly more confrontational if I go 'I I me myself my' for an open ended general question. That's what I thought, based on the many forums and the expected elitism that's part and parcel of asking for help.

[Birch]

Oh oh, my original post.

 

I thought I'd get a less heated and targeted response if I ask that way. Haha.

 

People get slightly more confrontational if I go 'I I me myself my' for an open ended general question. That's what I thought, based on the many forums and the expected elitism that's part and parcel of asking for help.

 

Not on this one IME :-)

 

Ask away. Besides. I don't know jack :-)

[Mahberry]

Not on this one IME :-)

 

Ask away. Besides. I don't know jack :-)

Damn, I feel very welcomed now. Thank you.

[ShaktiMama]

What would YOU do if someone came up to you and asked you to put together for them a program in brain surgery? Would you do so or suggest they go to medical school? Or in learning to play football? Would you do so or suggest to them to go for proper training? Or how about bone manipulation? Would you do so or tell them best to go to a chiropractic, osteopathic, or Chinese Tui Na school? Or how about learning the skill of belly dancing? Would you do so or tell them to go for training? What about if someone came up to you and asked for a program in cutting hair? Would you put that together? Wonder what kind of response you would get if you asked in those respective forums?

 

What comes of this sort of thing is the hundreds of sad posts,"Help me, I did such and such and it really screwed me up. What can I do?

We really should have a sticky of the summation of the those types of posts over the last several years.

 

I get requests for help all the time from people screwed up from practicing something from a book or something they read on the internet, who think the practice of energetics is something ... you know, I don't know just what the heck they think - in fact,IMO they aren't thinking at all.

 

 

this has all kinds of awesome written all over it. This post could be on the first page of the sticky.

[ShaktiMama]

Let's say someone approaches you for your expertise in energetic work and would like you to structure a program so they can experience their energetic body as fast and as safe as possible, what would you recommend them to do?

 

Is it possible to do this without very difficult postures or complicated movements (absolutely learnable without a teacher)?

 

Said person also willing to put in enormous amount of time and go celibate as long as required.

 

I think this is basically a think of what you would have done if you weren't so uninformed when you first started question.

 

So, PLEASE, HELP ME OUT HERE!

 

enormous amount of time and celibacy is not required. Depending on this person's individual makeup...it is possible in to experience in about 15 minutes with about 10 minutes in the set up. Or if they are a insensitive brick with closed mind...might take a while to even a couple of years depending on the patience and level of the teacher. Children learn in less than 10.

 

If the person wants to experience this without a teacher...it might not ever happen or it could happen in an unexpected way. Lots of variables here.

 

And the more effort and mental focus and strain is put into it the less successful said person is going to be.

 

Come with an empty cup or even better a broken plate and with a child's natural wonder and innocence...that determines success.

 

This book is how I learned to feel energy in the 80s, a few years before my kundalini wake up. You learn this and you will naturally begin to develop your energy.

 

It's written for nurses and lay people. Dont let the simplicity fool you. It is one of the best I have ever seen:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Therapeutic-Touch-Practical-Janet-Macrae/product-reviews/039475588X/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Edited July 2, 2011 by ShaktiMama

[Creation]

It's scary knowing how much people can convince themselves about how much they know about something they don't.

What a sobering reflection. I know I am guilty of this type of thing.

[ShaktiMama]

What a sobering reflection. I know I am guilty of this type of thing.

 

it's called a blind spot. we all have them. And, interestingly enough, we all hide out in a teacher's or therpaist's (or lover's) blind spot.

 

a piece of trivia that we all can benefit from.

 

 

what we don't know is huge compared to we what do know. and what we think we know but don't, pitiful.

 

We don't know what we don't know.

[宁]

what would you recommend them to do?

 

Run away, just run away...

[de_paradise]

I've been doing vipassana for a year now, there's some weird runaway energy that I feel originating from the sole of my left foot and rushes up to midway to my spine if I tilt my pelvis when it happens. It happens very very infrequently, like once every 2 weeks. It doesn't seem like it can be controlled and I don't see it affecting any places that Taoist or Hindu practices would mention like the perineum, lower dantien, tip of the tailbone, etc.

 

And still I'm a skeptic to this entire energetic body thing, so I thought I'll throw in an enormous amount of time practicing it for good measure just to prove if it's real. All these trust issues about energetic practices comes from years of hanging out in Buddhist forums reading people debating and intellectualizing about no self, non duality and the whole shebang, posing as very enlightened people. It's scary knowing how much people can convince themselves about how much they know about something they don't.

 

I've been a shut in for quite some time before this, so impressing/helping people isn't really part of my agenda. It's mostly me me me me me now.

 

You have an incomple understanding of how the body forms a fully formed qi body. It is formed in stages. We can sometimes feel some events taking place, such qi lifting from the leg and moving up. The reason is that the left side of our body is known as the qi side and the right side of our body known as the blood side. Most people start to feel energy sensations on their left side, say ear, or leg, etc, its just the way it is. But no, the whole process is not something you control, your part is only mininal. This goes with meditations and energy practises alike. The meditation that you already do is really safe, and since you are making progress, you are barking up a needless tree looking for something else.

 

The fact that you feel something already means that being a skeptic of an energy body is illogical, but it may take your mind to catch up to that reality. Skepticism is based along the lines of what is taught us in conventional life, not along the lines of alchemist reality, which makes conventional reality look like children's games in a sandbox.

 

You seem like a good guy, and also spot on about the pretentous Buddhist debater type. If you are looking for energy practises to augment the vispassana, the teacherly people who posted already Im sure can help you.

Edited July 2, 2011 by de_paradise