A section for Buddhist Discussion

[deci belle]

[Stigweard]

The issue to me is not one of content but presentation.

I have learned just as much about Dao and Wu Wei and related concepts from sources that would not be considered classically Daoist as I have from the classics. Bringing other traditions and ideas into our discussions is enriching and expanding for me.

Excluding Buddhist discussion would take away the enormous insights that wonderful tradition has to offer. Furthermore, the Chinese have freely mixed Confucian, Daoist, and Buddhist views to the point that isolating each would be difficult indeed.

 

The problem as I see it is primarily one of a few individuals who seem to thrive on debating and presenting their views in a way which belittles or intimidates or invalidates others' views. It is ironic that this has become a problem with some of our Buddhist members when the true practice of Buddhism is one of right speech, right action, compassion, and loving-kindness, among other things. This in turn often deteriorates to petty bickering or alienation of less "hardy" forumites who may have a lot to offer but get turned off. Or it is a problem where heated and esoteric sideline argument derails too many threads.

 

It is important to see what is really happening here. When someone feels the need to argue so strenuously and impress their belief on others, it is a result of insecurity. When I am completely secure in my understanding, I have no need whatsoever to vociferously argue my position or impress it on someone else. I know it to be truth, nothing can change that, and I simply don't need to fight about it. I also know that I cannot cause someone else to see what I see. Your green and mine may be very different. Calling them green is only a verbal convention. When I have doubt or insecurity, even if (maybe I should say especially if) I don't recognize or acknowledge that consciously or publicly, I tend to be defensive, sensitive, demonstrative, and argumentative. I see this dynamic in operation everywhere in my daily life and work. So the people who argue so strenuously, are really doing so from a place of vulnerability and suffering. I've come to try and feel compassion for these folks. Rather than try to force them to accept my opinion or see my perspective, I try to help them see their own uncertainty in a non-threatening way. It's very tough to feel that the ground we stand on is not stable, it's a time for us to practice compassion and an opportunity for us to grow. It can be very frustrating and exasperating but that simply means it is an opportunity for us to learn to be more skillful.

 

I doubt that a separate forum for Buddhist discussion would solve the problem or enhance the overall forum.

In my mind, it's more about people being civil, compassionate, and growing.

I would love to see this forum be a vehicle by which those of us serious about our cultivation can do so.

And what better place to practice things like right speech, wu wei, loving-kindness, compassion, de, and so forth?

Well, I guess the rest of our lives is a good place to but at least here we have an opportunity to interact with others of similar interests.

 

I would challenge those among us who are prone to be overly argumentative and uncivil to try and elevate your level of skill in communication and debate.

- Consider looking at what you write before posting, is there a way to say what you mean that will be supportive and enriching rather than destructive and hurtful?

- When beginning the descent into an esoteric (or not) debate on theology and philosophy ask yourself if it belongs in the current thread or would be better served by starting a new thread so as to respect the OP's topic

- When realizing that I am now in the middle of an argument or yet again bickering about the same old stuff, is it possible for me to practice mindfulness and right action enough to disengage? If I can't let it go, what does that say about ME? Is that worthy of some attention?

 

I would challenge all of us to think of things like civility and compassion in our discussions.

I believe that we are intelligent and aware enough that these considerations will not dilute the validity or value of our contributions.

If we feel that civility and compassion prevent us from being able to say what we want or make our points adequately, what does that tell us about our method and skill in communication?

I'd love to see this forum become a place where people become more skillful and civil in how they interact with each other and the best way for that to happen is for those willing to do so to set the best possible example.

 

Sorry for the rant.

Agreed, agreed, agreed.

 

[doc benway]

Hello folks,

 

I want to make it clear that I wasn't advocating that we restrict Buddhist conversation or ideas to a specific section of the forum, but rather have a section devoted to Buddhism where I could feel more comfortable posting topics on Zen. Since the Taoist Discussion, in my own view, is predominantly meant to be a discussion about Taoism with a bit of Buddhist influence thrown in, I don't necessarily feel that posting a strictly Buddhist topic is appropriate, even if it isn't against the posting guidelines. I'm not saying others shouldn't, I just feel it would be nice to have a section devoted to the topic, especially since many of us here are interested in the topic of Buddhism.

 

So my question was actually, do you think it would be nice to have a section devoted to Buddhist discussions and topics?

 

 

Aaron

 

Perhaps it could be along the lines of the tao teh ching subforum where we discussed certain concepts and texts found within Buddhism?

Sorry, I think I read more into your OP than you intended.

Nevertheless, I stand by my comments.

[Stigweard]

Sorry, I think I read more into your OP than you intended.

Nevertheless, I stand by my comments.

LOL ... And I still agree with them

[lifeforce]

How about having a section dedicated to Taoist Discussion ?