A section for Buddhist Discussion

[Aaron]

I was wondering what other people thought about having a section devoted for Buddhist Discussion like the Taoist Discussion section. Just a thought.

 

Aaron

 

edit- I want to clarify my question... I'm actually asking if other people think it would be nice to have a section devoted to Buddhist discussions and topics?

 

I didn't mean that Buddhism should be restricted to a specific section, nor did I intend to infer that.

 

Aaron

Edited July 3, 2011 by Twinner

[Otis]

Personally, I don't subscribe to either title. But I like having both influences, in the discussions. I'd rather keep them together.

[Birch]

I dunno if a section is needed. Maybe the buddhists could just get more into the Taoist stuff and learn from some of it rather than trying to equate it (or supercede it) with continuous buddhist philosophical debate in a number of threads. I did suggest once to VJ that he share some of the practices he knew because he seemed pretty expert at a bunch of them. I guess I miss the stuff about food, TCM, 5E, FS etc and end up having to go elsewhere for 'practical' things.

[RiverSnake]

We have a section for the Tao de Ching, don't see why we couldn't have a section maybe dedicate to the Pali cannon and Buddhist debate.

 

-Though that doesn't mean that Buddhists can't present there thoughts in comparison to Daoist philosophy in the Taoist Discussion section.

 

-More than anything perhaps we could use it as a formality so that there can always be a place for Buddhist banter, kind of like a foreign embassy

Edited July 1, 2011 by OldGreen

[Gerard]

Hi everyone,

 

Count my vote for a Buddhist discussion section as well since the Daoist one is too light for me.

 

Regards.

[Stigweard]

Personally, I don't subscribe to either title. But I like having both influences, in the discussions. I'd rather keep them together.

Same

 

Too many divisions already.

[Mandrake]

How much of the discussions on this site is really daoist?

One of the charms with having everything thrown in the same bag is that the overall atmosphere becomes grounded. There are already sites covering philosophical discursion; the practical part is what should be lifted up.

 

 

Mandrake

[Apech]

How much of the discussions on this site is really daoist?

One of the charms with having everything thrown in the same bag is that the overall atmosphere becomes grounded. There are already sites covering philosophical discursion; the practical part is what should be lifted up.

 

 

Mandrake

 

Good point ... many of the threads on Taoist Discussion are about whatever comes into people's heads or catches their interest. There's always Off Topic of course but a lot of people don't seem to ever look there. I like the random nature of some of the threads and also the way the discussion ranges about ... one of the best things about TTBs.

 

Maybe since the specialist sub-forums are based round texts like TTC we could have something on certain sutras and teachings ... e.g. Diamond Sutra, mind training, abhidharma ????? That could work I think but someone would have to organize it.

[Stigweard]

And how would us Daoists keep the Buddhists in check if they had their own section???

 

Hehehehehe!!!

 

Sorry ... Mr Marbles made me say it!

 

[Birch]

Hi everyone,

 

Count my vote for a Buddhist discussion section as well since the Daoist one is too light for me.

 

Regards.

 

 

Too much light, eh?

[ralis]

I like the layout in this forum. All the categories are on the front page and nothing disappears down the memory hole to 'off topic'.

 

 

 

http://www.thebigview.com/forum/index.php

Edited July 2, 2011 by ralis

[Ya Mu]

Same

 

Too many divisions already.

Dare I say, without getting attacked by those mean and vicious Buddhists , that most practices have both Taoist & Buddhist influence? As well as a little bit of Confucius, probably a smidgen of Christianity with Zoroaster's teachings for added flavor?

Take recipe, stir with heat, bake in cauldron, allow to simmer for at least 10 years, add in a pinch of spontaneity, and enjoy.

[Simplicity Rules]

Maybe the buddhists could just get more into the Taoist stuff and learn from some of it rather than trying to equate it (or supercede it) with continuous buddhist philosophical debate in a number of threads.

 

Valid observation. But will that practically happen? Probably not. The whole Buddhist idea is that of a bigger and better, can I say "real" path which was never taught by before (in Buddha's own words). So most Buddhists (at least the ones going preachy on internet forums) already come with this pre-conceived notion of "knowing it all" - may not be at a personal level but at the community or sanghic level. So they are here to "talk" and seldom to "listen" or "learn". Deal with it -K-. Not all are like this, but the loud ones certainly are. Perhaps their intentions are rather sincere, but there certainly is something called Buddhist conditioning, however much you try to deny that

 

I guess I miss the stuff about food, TCM, 5E, FS etc and end up having to go elsewhere for 'practical' things.

This is a tricky part. What is practical depends on one's whole philosophy towards cultivation. For example, I just read this,

 

In meditation and cultivation the mind is the most significant. It far more important than Chi channels, posture, this kun-fu etc.

I guess this would be true to a philosophical Taoist as well? For him, 'practical' stuff would be a debate about an ontology or the nature of wu-wei rather than Five Sounds?

 

So though it would seem like there is madness here, there is a method to it. And that is Tao?

Edited July 2, 2011 by Simplicity Rules

[ralis]

Valid observation. But will that practically happen? Probably not. The whole Buddhist idea is that of a bigger and better, can I say "real" path which was never taught by before (in Buddha's own words). So most Buddhists (at least the ones going preachy on internet forums) already come with this pre-conceived notion of "knowing it all" - may not be at a personal level but at the community or sanghic level. So they are here to "talk" and seldom to "listen" or "learn". Deal with it -K-. Not all are like this, but the loud ones certainly are. Perhaps their intentions are rather sincere, but there certainly is something called Buddhist conditioning, however much you try to deny that

 

 

That has occurred in thousands of posts right here on TTB. Even to the point that one Buddhist preacher claimed that Buddhas would be teaching in all other traditions. The implication is that Buddhas are responsible for all teachings of a spiritual nature.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

yyyyyeah, I don't know. If so I think it should be called "complementary pursuits" or something and be for all other spiritual paths like Assine, Sufi, Kabbala, Egyptian, Aboriginal, Hindu, etc. I think a page like that would be cool, but Buddhism plays an undeniable part in a lot of Taoist schools so it should only reduce the amount that shows up on the Taoist page, while giving more stuff to learn about that might be helpful but not totally Taoist. Maybe have something about it should tie in somehow to Taoism or else put it in off topic. This way it will probably get read, though the sites capacity might collapse, and someone's gonna need to take up the mod stick (not it!)...

[anatman]

i don't get here very often,and still see that the"taoists"and "buddhists"are still at each other.i find this sad as there is really no need.

 

i come here to learn about taoism,and to try to understand the ttc(yeah,that's gonna happen),not argue who has the superior philosophy(neither actually).i find my answers in both(not necessarly at the same time)and sometimes to understand a concept from one,i find i need to compare it to the other.

 

the one thing i like about this forum,as forigen as some concepts may be,at least they're discussed.i can name a few forums that this doesn't happen on.

 

my personal vote(if it counts for anything)is not to make seperate sections.if someone is that dead set on a"buddhist section,or islamic,hindu,asatru,what have you"there are other places on the net for that.

[寒月 Hanyue]

I never got, and still don't get why this section is called 'Taoist discussion', given a lot of things that get discussed? So will a 'Buddhist discussion' section chang anything, probably not.

 

Best,

[DalTheJigsaw123]

I was wondering what other people thought about having a section devoted for Buddhist Discussion like the Taoist Discussion section. Just a thought.

 

Aaron

 

A great idea!

[Vajrahridaya]

I don't see a need. I like Taoism and I've learned a lot about it's views here. I see lots of correlation's between the two views. I don't see disparity. But, people are just people.

 

Yes, ralis, I believe that anyone who is awake, is a Buddha, no matter the tradition. As "Buddha" merely means, "awake."

[ralis]

 

Yes, ralis, I believe that anyone who is awake, is a Buddha, no matter the tradition. As "Buddha" merely means, "awake."

 

Then use a generic term instead of a Buddhist term.

[unmike]

It meant awake before Siddhartha and it still means awake. Just because "light" and "dark" have connotations within the confines of the Taoist tradition doesn't mean you should eschew those words to keep your speech generic and palatable to the forum's masses. The point is communication and Buddha communicated the idea he meant rather well.

[ralis]

It meant awake before Siddhartha and it still means awake. Just because "light" and "dark" have connotations within the confines of the Taoist tradition doesn't mean you should eschew those words to keep your speech generic and palatable to the forum's masses. The point is communication and Buddha communicated the idea he meant rather well.

 

What I meant was that showing respect for other belief systems as opposed to using a term specific to Buddhism and making the term "Buddha" relevant to all other belief systems. In your mind that may seem proper. However, many in other belief systems may be offended by those remarks.

 

I thought Buddhism was about having heart! Instead, Buddhism for many is an ethnocentric belief system. There are a few on this forum that behave in an ethnocentric manner.

[doc benway]

The issue to me is not one of content but presentation.

I have learned just as much about Dao and Wu Wei and related concepts from sources that would not be considered classically Daoist as I have from the classics. Bringing other traditions and ideas into our discussions is enriching and expanding for me.

Excluding Buddhist discussion would take away the enormous insights that wonderful tradition has to offer. Furthermore, the Chinese have freely mixed Confucian, Daoist, and Buddhist views to the point that isolating each would be difficult indeed.

 

The problem as I see it is primarily one of a few individuals who seem to thrive on debating and presenting their views in a way which belittles or intimidates or invalidates others' views. It is ironic that this has become a problem with some of our Buddhist members when the true practice of Buddhism is one of right speech, right action, compassion, and loving-kindness, among other things. This in turn often deteriorates to petty bickering or alienation of less "hardy" forumites who may have a lot to offer but get turned off. Or it is a problem where heated and esoteric sideline argument derails too many threads.

 

It is important to see what is really happening here. When someone feels the need to argue so strenuously and impress their belief on others, it is a result of insecurity. When I am completely secure in my understanding, I have no need whatsoever to vociferously argue my position or impress it on someone else. I know it to be truth, nothing can change that, and I simply don't need to fight about it. I also know that I cannot cause someone else to see what I see. Your green and mine may be very different. Calling them green is only a verbal convention. When I have doubt or insecurity, even if (maybe I should say especially if) I don't recognize or acknowledge that consciously or publicly, I tend to be defensive, sensitive, demonstrative, and argumentative. I see this dynamic in operation everywhere in my daily life and work. So the people who argue so strenuously, are really doing so from a place of vulnerability and suffering. I've come to try and feel compassion for these folks. Rather than try to force them to accept my opinion or see my perspective, I try to help them see their own uncertainty in a non-threatening way. It's very tough to feel that the ground we stand on is not stable, it's a time for us to practice compassion and an opportunity for us to grow. It can be very frustrating and exasperating but that simply means it is an opportunity for us to learn to be more skillful.

 

I doubt that a separate forum for Buddhist discussion would solve the problem or enhance the overall forum.

In my mind, it's more about people being civil, compassionate, and growing.

I would love to see this forum be a vehicle by which those of us serious about our cultivation can do so.

And what better place to practice things like right speech, wu wei, loving-kindness, compassion, de, and so forth?

Well, I guess the rest of our lives is a good place to but at least here we have an opportunity to interact with others of similar interests.

 

I would challenge those among us who are prone to be overly argumentative and uncivil to try and elevate your level of skill in communication and debate.

- Consider looking at what you write before posting, is there a way to say what you mean that will be supportive and enriching rather than destructive and hurtful?

- When beginning the descent into an esoteric (or not) debate on theology and philosophy ask yourself if it belongs in the current thread or would be better served by starting a new thread so as to respect the OP's topic

- When realizing that I am now in the middle of an argument or yet again bickering about the same old stuff, is it possible for me to practice mindfulness and right action enough to disengage? If I can't let it go, what does that say about ME? Is that worthy of some attention?

 

I would challenge all of us to think of things like civility and compassion in our discussions.

I believe that we are intelligent and aware enough that these considerations will not dilute the validity or value of our contributions.

If we feel that civility and compassion prevent us from being able to say what we want or make our points adequately, what does that tell us about our method and skill in communication?

I'd love to see this forum become a place where people become more skillful and civil in how they interact with each other and the best way for that to happen is for those willing to do so to set the best possible example.

 

Sorry for the rant.

[Lucky7Strikes]

The front page seems like a good balance of discussions on Taoist and Buddhist philosophy, energy practices, practical questions, spirits, jing cultivation, sex, testosterone levels, etc....what I like about ttb is that it follows the Taoist tradition of being very practical and grounded.

 

I've benefited greatly from debates on this forum that have subsequently helped my practices and meditation. Yes, it's frustrating because egos get involved your beliefs take a hit, but it also propels you to rethink your views on things with care and passion. It's not something you do with contents in a book or a teaching which can be easily interpreted to suit the safety of your belief system.

 

Also it's fun! And engaging if you are open minded. One thing I don't find productive in a discourse is when it's in the lines of

 

"You have your views, I have my views, let's bow and go our own ways..."

 

That doesn't mean we should argue at every corner, but when a debate is prompted and both sides are willing, it's actually pretty good as long as there is an understanding behind it that both are trying to improve their views and others as well.

 

Haha, a quote just came to my mind: "board don't hit back!"

Edited July 3, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[Aaron]

Hello folks,

 

I want to make it clear that I wasn't advocating that we restrict Buddhist conversation or ideas to a specific section of the forum, but rather have a section devoted to Buddhism where I could feel more comfortable posting topics on Zen. Since the Taoist Discussion, in my own view, is predominantly meant to be a discussion about Taoism with a bit of Buddhist influence thrown in, I don't necessarily feel that posting a strictly Buddhist topic is appropriate, even if it isn't against the posting guidelines. I'm not saying others shouldn't, I just feel it would be nice to have a section devoted to the topic, especially since many of us here are interested in the topic of Buddhism.

 

So my question was actually, do you think it would be nice to have a section devoted to Buddhist discussions and topics?

 

 

Aaron

 

Perhaps it could be along the lines of the tao teh ching subforum where we discussed certain concepts and texts found within Buddhism?

Edited July 3, 2011 by Twinner