[TTC Study] Chapter 46 of the Tao Teh Ching

[Marblehead]

Good. Yes, we are told to know when we have enough.

 

Desires are a tricky bunch. If we attain our desires too easily we want more. If we fail to attain our desires we are miserable. It's hard to break the patterns.

[dust]

Indeed, we've got the overall meaning down. In fact, every translation I've read so far gets the point across fairly well, and we don't need to be very particular about the exact translation... so I'm being very pedantic, and perhaps putting an unnecessary amount of effort into the particulars of the GD chapter. But still....it's bugging me, linguistically.

 

The idea is that when everything 僉that could have been desired and obtained IS obtained, then there is no other way further but downhill.

 

Gramatically, if we treat 咎莫僉於欲㝵 the same as:

 

罪莫厚於甚欲 -- crime not bigger than deep desire

 

and

 

化/禍莫大於不知足 -- disaster/turmoil not greater than not knowing enough

 

we surely get

 

咎莫僉於欲㝵/得 -- blame not more (people) than desire to obtain

 

Which I would like to translate as "There is no fault more common than desire to obtain"

[dust]

罪莫厚於甚欲 There is no crime bigger than deep desire,

咎莫僉於欲㝵 There is no fault more common than desire to obtain,

化莫大於不知足 There is no turmoil greater than not knowing what is enough*.

知足之為足 Knowing what is enough, and making it enough,

此恆足矣 This is truly** enough

 

i realise how ironic this is -- probably could have seen that the first translation I read got the meaning across sufficiently, and left it at that. Well..I'll leave it at this.

 

* 'sufficient' would perhaps be more technically correct for 足 but 'enough' sounds better to my ears. More idiomatic.

** toyed with 恒 as 'enduring' but again, to my ears...I prefer the sound of 'truly'

[soaring crane]

罪莫厚於甚欲 There is no crime bigger than deep desire,

咎莫僉於欲㝵 There is no fault more common than desire to obtain,

化莫大於不知足 There is no turmoil greater than not knowing what is enough*.

知足之為足 Knowing what is enough, and making it enough,

此恆足矣 This is truly** enough

 

I can't read Chinese at all and so can't comment on your choice of words but I want to mention that your work is similar to German translator Gunther Debon (who happens to be my favorite :-)

 

My literal translation of his German, with multiple possibilities for some of the German words he uses:

 

 

 

Kein Frevel größer

No wickedness/outrageousness/sacriledge/iniquity greater

 

Als seinen Wünschen nachzugehen

than after his desires to pursue

 

Kein Übel größer

No evil/malady/curse greater

 

Als nicht Genügen kennen

than not satiety/surfeit to know

 

Kein Mackel größer

no flaw/stigma/blemish greater

 

Als nach Gewinn zu streben

than after profit/gains/spoils to strive/aspire

 

Wahrlich:

Forsooth/Truly:

 

Wer Genügend kennt am Genügenden

Who sufficiency recognizes in the sufficient

 

Wird ständig genug haben

Will constantly/always/persistently sufficient have

 

 

 

Maybe you'll find some useful alternative English words in there?

[dust]

Maybe you'll find some useful alternative English words in there?

 

It does help to know that others have come to similar conclusions, and a couple of those words bear further thought.

 

I have been wondering about other language translations of Laozi, but don't speak any other languages...

 

Thanks for the translation (I assume you had to type it out yourself?)

Edited September 9, 2014 by dustybeijing

[soaring crane]

 

 

Thanks for the translation (I assume you had to type it out yourself?)

 

 

well, yeah, from my little paperback ddj that I always have with me:

 

 

That picture on the cover looks like the ugly duckling if you look at it right, but it's really two cranes, of course :-)

[dust]

Attempting to use modern characters the structure of which is as close as possible (as far as my limited understanding goes) to how they appear on the GD slips. The meaning doesn't really change, but I feel like slightly different insight is possible.

 

辠莫厚唬甚欲 Nothing inflicts suffering more than deep desire,

咎莫僉唬谷㝵 No fault is more common than greed,

化莫大唬不智足 No turmoil is greater than not knowing what is enough.

 

 

辠 -- rather than 罪, we see 自 + 辛 == self + hardship == crime / sin / hardship

 

唬 -- this character appears in place of 於 throughout much of the GD, and is also the character I couldn't quite understand in chapter 19 (所/乎属 == 唬豆 [not precisely 豆, but a character similar in structure])

 

谷㝵 -- assume not a typo and could the intended meaning perhaps be "deep (as a gorge) desire/obtainment", i.e. greed?

 

智 -- same as 知

[Marblehead]

辠莫厚唬甚欲 Nothing inflicts suffering more than deep desire,

咎莫僉唬谷㝵 No fault is more common than greed,

化莫大唬不智足 No turmoil is greater than not knowing what is enough.

That is good at expressing the concepts I believe are being presented in the chapter.

 

(And I do love that Buddhist word "suffering". Hehehe.)

[dust]

(And I do love that Buddhist word "suffering". Hehehe.)

it was between "suffering" and "hardship", and I decided to go Buddhist

[dawei]

辠 -- rather than 罪, we see 自 + 辛 == self + hardship == crime / sin / hardship

 

Anything which goes against the norm or acceptable way... even used to describe the situation of a concubine...

[dust]

Ah! If that's the case, I am 辠 ...