[TTC Study] Chapter 46 of the Tao Teh Ching

[Marblehead]

[ChiDragon]

Chapter 46 - Contentment

 

Translation in terse English:

1. The world under benevolent ruling,

2. Running horses return to farming.

3. The world under tyrannous ruling,

4. War horses breed in the wilderness.

5. Disaster does not exceed discontentment,

6. Sin does not exceed avarice,

7. Therefore,

8. One who knows contentment is contentment,

9. Always will be contented.

 

46

1. 天下有道，

2. 卻走馬以糞。(then, running horse dropping manure)

3. 天下無道，

4. 戎馬生於郊。

5. 禍莫大於不知足。

6. 咎莫大於欲得。

7. 故

8. 知足之足

9. 常足矣。

Edited July 2, 2011 by ChiDragon

[devoid]

It's a good chapter - very true about contentment and 'having enough'.

 

I am generally a fan of the English / Feng translation: Yet here, is both odd and funny to see how they seemingly managed to present the part about the horses and manure so awkwardly when seen in the context of the rest of this chapter.

[Marblehead]

Yeah, contentment. I've seen that word somewhere before.

[ChiDragon]

It's a good chapter - very true about contentment and 'having enough'.

 

I am generally a fan of the English / Feng translation: Yet here, is both odd and funny to see how they seemingly managed to present the part about the horses and manure so awkwardly when seen in the context of the rest of this chapter.

1. The world under benevolent ruling,

2. Running horses return to farming.

3. The world under tyrannous ruling,

4. War horses breed in the wilderness.

 

1. 天下有道，

2. 卻走馬以糞。(then, running horse dropping manure)

3. 天下無道，

4. 戎馬生於郊。

 

I was hoping somebody would mention the horses and manure...!!! This is the best example of classic text written in metaphor.

The first four lines about ruling and horses. LaoTze used them to relate the time in war and peace.

 

The first four lines said:

When the world was in peace, the horses stay in the farms and produce manure as fertilizer. During war time, even female horses have to go the war and bear their young in the battle field. The hidden metaphor in these four lines was only those who are not contended goes to war.

5. Disaster does not exceed discontentment,

6. Sin does not exceed avarice,

 

These two lines said:

There is nothing that can beat contentment. Again, LaoTze said it in reverse negative logic.

PS...

Yes, contentment. I've, also, seen that word somewhere before.

Edited July 2, 2011 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

[dawei]

This is an interesting chapter for the various issues which surround it. The first two main sentences are not in the Guodian, and while in the Mawangdui they are set off by paragraph markers implying it was a separate section. So we see another early manuscript marked as two brought together as one in later manuscripts.

 

I have never liked the conventional way of describing the horses as if they are two different horse (galloping horse vs war horses—Wu). This would make most sense to translate their functions (and not make it sounds like two kinds of horses).

 

- Waysun Liao calls them “War Horses” in both lines to drive home this point.

- Zhengkun has an interesting take by calling them “battle steeds" in the first line and the second line with “Even pregnant mares are taken over for war”.

- Ni also mentions the “pregnant mares”.

 

The 'Debates on salt and iron' of the first century B.C. includes a line that reads:

“horses became insufficient, so even mares in foal were enlisted in the ranks, which resulted in Colts being born out on the battlefields." -- Tr. Sarkissian

 

The horse symbolized vigor. Hex 26 and 59 have references to horses which one commentator saw as referring to the inner person and how to rescue their hearts. Heshang Gong took all this as a metaphor to turn one’s physical vigor (sperm) back to nourish (manure) the body, as part of inner alchemy. Wang Bi’s commentary has a phrase 修其内 which suggest to take care of (cultivate) your internal matters but since he is not wont to speak in alchemy ways, it may mean more like to take care of your inner desires and sufficiency.

Edited July 3, 2011 by dawei

[ChiDragon]

Original Classic Text

1. 天下有道，

2. 卻走馬以糞。(then, running horse dropping manure)

3. 天下無道，

4. 戎馬生於郊。

5. 禍莫大於不知足。

6. 咎莫大於欲得。

7. 故

8. 知足之足

9. 常足矣。

 

This is a very interesting Chapter indeed. It was about war and peace by the keywords in lines 1 and 3. They are 有道(you3 tao) and 無道(wu2 tao). In lines 2 and 3, LaoTze uses the horses to distinguish their life conditions during the war and peace times.

 

Before we going into the 有道(you3 tao) and 無道(wu2 tao), let's start with the common term 天下(tien xia) in line 1 and 3. The ancient only talked about Heaven and Earth in their time. The used the relation between Heaven and Earth to describe their locations like 天下(tien xia). The direct translation for 天下(tien xia) is "under heaven" which is Earth. At the time, they only knew they are living on Earth which is China. They are only dealing with each other within the warring states. They did not know the other parts of the world yet. Therefore, when the term 天下(tien xia) was mentioned, it was meant all of China to the ancients. Of course, now-a-days, it means around the world.

 

The definition of the dyad for 有道(you3 tao) and 無道(wu2 tao):

1. 有道(you3 tao): virtuous; follow the moral principles

2. 無道(wu2 tao): noo virtuous; do not the follow the moral principles

 

1. 天下有道(tien xia you3 tao)，

1. Under Heaven with virtuous ruling,

 

3. 天下無道(tien xia wu2 tao)，

3. Under Heaven with non virtuous ruling.

 

In lines 2 and 4, the horses mentioned were only one kind of horses. However, a horse can be made into a farm or war horse.

 

2. 卻走馬以糞。

2. Then, running horse dropping manure.

Under virtuous ruling, the horses do dot need to go to war. They were used for farm at peace time.

 

4. 戎馬生於郊。

4. War horse bred in the outskirts.

Under non virtuous ruling, even the female farming horses were urged to be used as war horses and have to bear(生) their young in the battlefield.

 

Terse English

1. The world under benevolent ruling,

2. Running horses return to farming.

3. The world under tyrannous ruling,

4. War horses breed in the wilderness.

 

John Wu:

1a. When the world is in possession of the Tao,

2a. The galloping horses are led to fertilize the fields with their droppings.

3a. When the world has become Taoless,

4a. War horses breed themselves on the suburbs.

 

English/Feng:

1b. When the Tao is present in the universe,

2b. The horses haul manure.

3b. When the Tao is absent from the universe,

4b. War horses are bred outside the city.

 

Robert Henricks:

1c. When the world has the Way, ambling horses are retired to fertilize [fields].

2c. When the world lacks the Way, war horses are reared in the suburbs.

3c. Of crimes—none is greater than having things that one desires;

4c. Of disasters—none is greater than not knowing when one has enough.

 

Lines 5 and 6: was given a hint that under tyrannous ruling, a tyrant will not be contended with himself and causing problem to fulfill his desires.

5. Disaster does not exceed discontentment,

6. Sin does not exceed avarice,

 

Lines 7 and 9 are self explanatory.

7. Therefore,

8. One who knows contentment is contentment,

9. Always will be contented.

Edited July 3, 2011 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

天下有道卻走馬以糞

When the Way prevails in the world, the riding horses are kept back in the farms to manure the fields.

天下無道戎馬生於郊

When the Way does not prevail in the world, the horses live closer to the border for military matters.

Thinking more about the first line, I don't emphasize what I think is the point; that this is the Warring States period and the modus operandi is War. IMO, the first line should convey this since it contains the word:

卻 - but / yet / however / while / to go back / to decline / to retreat / nevertheless / even though

 

So I think that the line is trying to convey that the horses return from the borders to the farms when the Way prevails.

 

Another item to consider is the use of "Tian Xia" (天下) which can mean, from the ruling point of view, to "unite the people". This was afterall the sought after goal of the Warring State Period; to be the last state standing and unite the people.

 

another item: "You Dao" (有道) can also mean "good government prevails", particularly in light of the previous idea of Tian Xia; so, as Zhuangzi uses many times; "when good order prevails in the world/state/kingdom" -- Tr. Legge

 

Given the picture of war in this chapter, an alternate opening might be:

When the ruler follows the Way, there is good order in the state and the horses are rode back to the farms to manure the fields.

When the ruler does not follow the Way, there is disorder in the state and the horses live closer to the border for military matters.

 

When the ruler does not establish good order, the state goes to war and what slowly unfolds and result is "vice", pursing desires. What results in turn among the land is:

1. Misery: Not knowing what is enough (the state is not enough, desire to expand, conquer)

2. Covetousness: Desiring the possession of another kingdom and land (desire to unite the lands)

[dawei]

Interesting that we are basically explaining the same thing at the same time.

 

The only reason I don't go as far as defining it as benevolent (virtuous) vs tyrannous (not virtuous) is that on the one hand, it sounds too Confucian. Also, ALL the states and kingdoms are being pulled into this war and maybe some would rather not but cannot avoid it. I don't define (and judge) every state's action as tyrannous if they end up in war. For me, The non-judgmental Way is to say they are either following the Way or they are not.

 

To call a ruler 'tryannous' or as such was often reserved for the most hated rulers and often the last ruler of a period/dynasty (after all, they "lost it all" at that point); like King Jie of Xia or King Xin of Shang who was given the nickname Zhou (紂), Tyrant.

 

A reason I don't use "contentment" is that I see this as more like a bare sufficiency. It is War time after all and I doubt the kind of "contentment" we usually apply to the word is what is meant here. I personally side with the idea is 'just enough' or 'sufficiency' or 'adequacy'.

Edited July 3, 2011 by dawei

[Marblehead]

When the ruler does not establish good order, the state goes to war and what slowly unfolds and result is "vice", pursing desires. What results in turn among the land is:

 

1. Misery: Not knowing what is enough (the state is not enough, desire to expand, conquer)

2. Covetousness: Desiring the possession of another kingdom and land (desire to unite the lands)

 

Interesting that you brought this back to guidance for the ruler.

[dawei]

Interesting that you brought this back to guidance for the ruler.

I think this chapter calls for it if we are to make sense of the opening two lines and what follows. It is War (vs peace) that is directing the use of the horses; and it is the ruler who directs the War effort (or not), afterall. The latter lines can be applied to people but it only comes about because of what the ruler is doing. His example become the people's example. If he desires, the people will contend and desire.

[dawei]

Original Classic Text

1. 天下有道，

2. 卻走馬以糞。(then, running horse dropping manure)

3. 天下無道，

4. 戎馬生於郊。

罪莫大於可欲

5. 禍莫大於不知足。

6. 咎莫大於欲得。

7. 故

8. 知足之足

9. 常足矣。

I am curious to the definition of "Original classic"?

 

The line in red I inserted to show where the Guodian, Mawangdui, Fu Yi, Hesheng Gong and as Chan says in his commentary "51 other texts" have it mentioned.

 

I don't mind someone to use whatever version they want, but I am not sure that calling it the "Original Classic" is proper. It is simply The Wang Bi version. Or maybe it is what your calling your "Received Version"?

[ChiDragon]

I am curious to the definition of "Original classic"?

 

The line in red I inserted to show where the Guodian, Mawangdui, Fu Yi, Hesheng Gong and as Chan says in his commentary "51 other texts" have it mentioned.

 

I don't mind someone to use whatever version they want, but I am not sure that calling it the "Original Classic" is proper. It is simply The Wang Bi version. Or maybe it is what your calling your "Received Version"?

 

Good thing that you are curious about the definition of "Original classic". What I meant was whatever copy or version one wish to use, I was preferring to the original characters that was in the original copy or version. The original characters in the context will dictate the outcome of the translation.

 

Original Classic Text

1. 天下有道，

2. 卻走馬以糞。(then, running horse dropping manure)

3. 天下無道，

4. 戎馬生於郊。

 

罪莫大於可欲 <---- Is this the proper place for the insertion...???

5. 禍莫大於不知足。

 

6. 咎莫大於欲得。

罪莫大於可欲 <--- Or here is the proper place to be inserted for the interest of discussion...???

 

7. 故

8. 知足之足

9. 常足矣。

 

FYI...

Wang Bi was used as the basis for the Received Version. Hesheng Gong's version was not reliable because he was a devout Taoist in his religion. He revised the Tao Te Ching as canon to fit his religious believes.

[ChiDragon]

1. Thinking more about the first line, I don't emphasize what I think is the point; that this is the Warring States period and the modus operandi is War.

 

2. IMO, the first line should convey this since it contains the word:

卻 - but / yet / however / while / to go back / to decline / to retreat / nevertheless / even though

 

3. So I think that the line is trying to convey that the horses return from the borders to the farms when the Way prevails.

 

4. Another item to consider is the use of "Tian Xia" (天下) which can mean, from the ruling point of view, to "unite the people". This was afterall the sought after goal of the Warring State Period; to be the last state standing and unite the people.

 

5. another item: "You Dao" (有道) can also mean "good government prevails", particularly in light of the previous idea of Tian Xia; so, as Zhuangzi uses many times; "when good order prevails in the world/state/kingdom" -- Tr. Legge

 

6. Given the picture of war in this chapter, an alternate opening might be:

When the ruler follows the Way, there is good order in the state and the horses are rode back to the farms to manure the fields.

When the ruler does not follow the Way, there is disorder in the state and the horses live closer to the border for military matters.

 

When the ruler does not establish good order, the state goes to war and what slowly unfolds and result is "vice", pursing desires. What results in turn among the land is:

1. Misery: Not knowing what is enough (the state is not enough, desire to expand, conquer)

2. Covetousness: Desiring the possession of another kingdom and land (desire to unite the lands)

1. The Tao Te Ching was written during the Warring State Period. I have to keep the definitions within this period.

 

2. To my understanding, the character 卻 really serves no significant purpose in the outcome of the translation. I would put my emphasis on the latter of the phrase.

 

3. "the Way prevails"....??? Is the mean that Tao sometimes fails....???

 

4. If it was meant "unite the people", then it would had been written as 治天下(ruling tein xia).

 

5. Yes, 有道 only implies that "good government prevails" only, and only if, the government was under benevolent ruling.

 

6. It could be more precise, but I could live with that....

[dawei]

 

2. To my understanding, the character 卻 really serves no significant purpose in the outcome of the translation. I would put my emphasis on the latter of the phrase. We can disagree. By saying they 'return' implies they are normally NOT at the farms during this period, but being used for war; so it makes a lot of sense to me that this is exactly what he wants to say.

 

3. "the Way prevails"....??? Is the mean that Tao sometimes fails....??? I already explained what that means in my alternate (when the way is followed). As one definition for prevails goes: "to be or appear as the most important feature". Ergo, the Way prevails when it appears as the most important feature [to the ruler or people]

 

4. If it was meant "unite the people", then it would had been written as 治天下(ruling tein xia). Tian Xia is a kind of code word with "all under heaven" meaning united, IMO. If they are scattered into 100 kingdoms or 7 warring states, they are not [yet] united; so not truly Tian Xia.

[dawei]

罪莫大於可欲 <---- Is this the proper place for the insertion...???

5. 禍莫大於不知足。

 

6. 咎莫大於欲得。

罪莫大於可欲 <--- Or here is the proper place to be inserted for the interest of discussion...???

 

7. 故

8. 知足之足

9. 常足矣。

Guodian Manuscript:

1.

2.

3.

4.

5. 罪莫厚乎甚欲，

6.咎莫惨乎欲得，

7. 化莫大乎不智（知）足。

8. 智（知）足之为足，

9. 此恒足矣

 

 

MWD-A:

1. 天下有道

2. □走馬以糞

3. 天下無道

4. 戎馬生於郊‧

5. 罪莫大於可欲

6. 禍莫大於不知足

7. 咎莫憯於欲得

8. □□□□□

9. □恆足矣

 

MWD-B:

1. □□□道

2. 卻走馬□糞

3. □□無道

4. 戎馬生於郊

5. 罪莫大可欲

6. 禍□□□□□

7. □□□□□□

8. □□□□□

9. □□足矣

 

 

FuYi:

1. 天下有道，

2. 卻走馬以播。

3. 天下無道，

4. 戎馬生於郊。

5. 罪莫大於可欲，

6. 禍莫大於不知足,

7. 咎莫憯於欲得。

8. 故知足之足，

9. 常足矣

 

Heshang Gong:

1. 天下有道，

2. 卻走馬以播。

3. 天下無道，

4. 戎馬生於郊。

5. 罪莫大於可欲，

6. 禍莫大於不知足,

7. 咎莫大於欲得。

8. 故知足之足，

9. 常足〔矣〕

 

Wang Bi:

1. 天下有道，

2. 卻走馬以糞。

3. 天下無道，

4. 戎馬生於郊。

5.

6. 禍莫大於不知足。

7. 咎莫大於欲得。

8. 故知足之足

9. 常足矣

 

 

ALL manuscripts, except Wang Bi, have it as the first of three sayings. (It should be noted that Wang Bi follows the Heshang Gong more than any other manuscript).

 

5. 罪莫大於可欲，

6. 禍莫大於不知足,

7. 咎莫大於欲得。

 

The main reason that it belongs at position 5 is due to 可欲, which is saying is a high level way of ascribing the desire for objects or things. Then the next two lines are the specific examples expounding the point.

[Marblehead]

3. "the Way prevails"....??? Is the mean that Tao sometimes fails....???

 

You know I am not going to leave this unresponded to.

 

Tao never fails. The Way of Tao never fails.

 

The way of man often fails.

 

And I screw up a whole bunch.

[ChiDragon]

4. If it was meant "unite the people", then it would had been written as 治天下(ruling tien xia). Tien Xia is a kind of code word with "all under heaven" meaning united, IMO. If they are scattered into 100 kingdoms or 7 warring states, they are not [yet] united; so not truly Tian Xia.

 

OK, I will accept that "Tien Xia is a kind of code word with "all under heaven" meaning united," as your own definition.

 

In general, Tien Xia is under Heaven, regardless how many warring state or countries, they are not necessarily united. However, whom ever has the desire to take over all the countries has to conquer all of them. In other words, to united all was the greatest intent for an tyrannous aggressor which make him 無道(wu2 tao), non-benevolent.

 

Edited to correct "tian xia" to "tien xia".

Edited July 4, 2011 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

In general, Tian Xia is under Heaven, regardless how many warring state or countries, they are not necessarily united. However, whom ever has the desire to take over all the countries has to conquer all of them. In other words, to united all was the greatest intent for an tyrannous aggressor which make him 無道(wu2 tao), non-benevolent.

Maybe I've watched too many movies... but the movie Hero depicts the hidden meaning of Tian Xia to it's full meaning: All [united] under Heaven. Of course at that time, it was those central states (ie: China). Tian Xia was explained as the 'Universe', ONE, but divided (states) causing suffering. Unless Tian Xia is united, the wars cannot stop; peace cannot prevail. In this way, the one who achieves to unite all was the one to achieve peace. Seems benevolent in the end.

[dawei]

[ChiDragon]

Maybe I've watched too many movies... but the movie Hero depicts the hidden meaning of Tian Xia to it's full meaning: All [united] under Heaven. Of course at that time, it was those central states (ie: China). Tian Xia was explained as the 'Universe', ONE, but divided (states) causing suffering. Unless Tian Xia is united, the wars cannot stop; peace cannot prevail. In this way, the one who achieves to unite all was the one to achieve peace. Seems benevolent in the end.

The main theme of the movie, Hero, was about two assassins attempted to kill the Qin Emperor(秦始皇). They could have been succeed, however, they had realized not to proceed with it at the end because of tien xia(China). It was because tien xia had been united by the Emperor and only he can rule tien xia and keep it together. Despite the Emperor was a tyrant, the assassins were realized if they had killed the Emperor, then there is no one left that has the ability to keep tien xia united. It would have been the warring states fighting against each other again and make the political situation into a big turmoil with no peace. The assassins were heroes because they did not kill the tyrant and it was not the other way around.

 

 

FYI....

1. tien xia is under heaven implying that was all of China in the ancient time.

2. tien di(Heaven and Earth) implying that was the "Universe".

 

BTW I think you knew too much about the Chinese stuff and applied most of them to the interpretation of the Tao Te Ching. IMO It would be wise if we stop now before we are going to introduce too much confusions...

[ChiDragon]

3. "the Way prevails"....??? Is the mean that Tao sometimes fails....???

 

You know I am not going to leave this unresponded to.

 

Tao never fails. The Way of Tao never fails.

The way of man often fails.

 

And I screw up a whole bunch.

 

Yes, that was exactly my point. Was it necessary for LaoTze to state this trivial phenomenon in the Tao Te Ching...???

 

Besides, 有道(you3 tao), please note that "tao" is small t. It means here "with principles" which implies that is "virtuous".

Edited July 4, 2011 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

IMO It would be wise if we stop now before we are going to introduce too much confusions

I don't mind stopping but I am not sure that others are confused by the discussion. It would be a reasonable reason to stop though.

[Marblehead]

You guys go ahead on it you want. I just don't say anything if I have nothing to say. (Well, most of the time. Hehehe. I have been accused of talking a lot but yet not saying anything.)