Are we actually better off today, because of technology?

[strawdog65]

Seriously.....

 

How many of you remember the good old days before

hand held/computer technology took over our lives?

 

Remember gas at 40 cents a gallon?

 

Remember rotary dial phones that the

"phone company" owned inside your house?

 

Remember having to do so many things "face to face"?

 

Things were both harder to accomplish, and simpler to understand.

 

I believe that true communication was imparted in a more personable

way because there was no choice but to do it that way.

 

Look at the concept of consideration as it exists within our society today.

Why are people so inconsiderate?

 

Why is it ok to constantly use foul language in public today?

 

I remember one of the first jobs I had was as a busboy at a small diner

in the town where I grew up. The year was 1981, I was 16.

The diner was owned by two Greek brothers who ruled with an iron fist.

They would go on and own in the back room/kitchen in Greek, Malaka this and

Malaka that and wow. (Malaka means...M*****F*****!) But on the floor

they were the models of decency. Besides they would only swear in Greek.

 

So.. one day these two guys came in, both in their early 30's and were

sitting at a both and were carrying on a fairly loud conversation,

when the F word was plainly heard.

 

I swear to you ....everyone in that diner stopped what they were

doing and turned to look at these two guys...the entire place was

a complete hush. The guys realized this immediately and apologized,

paid their bill and left.

 

Fast forward to today... you could be anywhere, and you will hear

all kinds of language being used and no one saying a thing about it.

 

When I was growing up...if we did something questionable, it didn't matter if my

parents were around or not, any adult around would say something and interject

into the situation. Consideration was everyone's innate responsibility.

 

I wonder if the disassociation caused by all the barriers

that technology represents, has gotten us to this point?

 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Peace!

[Otis]

That's a very good question, Strawdog, whether we're "better off today, because of technology". I don't know if there's any way to ascertain that, beyond personal preference, and unreliable memory. My whole life, I've heard people say that the world is going "to hell in a handbasket". But when I look at documentaries about WWI and WWII, it seems pretty clear that we're living in a much kinder era, than we were during the first half of the last century. I grew up with the certainty of nuclear war; it was only a matter of when. Now I rarely think about that possibility. Etc.

 

Personally, I am all in favor of ridding ourselves of taboos, particularly those of giving power to words. The traditions that say: "these things are proper, these things are not", strike me as artificial and unnecessary. In "the good old days", people still had all the vices that they do today. They were just more secretive about them. I'd rather live in an honest society, than an artificially polite one.

[Sloppy Zhang]

People have been talking about "the good old days" and the "deplorable state of the current times" for thousands of years.

 

I heard one of my professors make an offhand comment that Socrates thought writing was bad- that people would write things down and in so doing become stupider, and that a true human being should use the memory which they naturally have.

 

On the history channel I heard that a Roman historian writing in some year a.d. put a preface to his history, saying that "the economy sucks, children disrespect their parents, politicians are corrupt, and the rich abuse their power for personal gain at the expense of the welfare of the state, so I am writing this history to remember the good old days" (and those good old days, to the contemporaries, were times of endless war, strife, conquest, betrayal, and general overall raping and pillaging as befitting the general Roman attitude towards their neighbors).

 

Point is, in the face of changing times, people ALWAYS think back to the "good old days".

 

And to mix things up even MORE, we are shifting into a new era. The era of sciences and information technologies. Print media is dying out. The number of jobs requiring someone with a strong back are dwindling as the demand for people with science or mathematics related skills are exploding beyond our ability to cope. Occasionally I come across articles from my university career services about how some companies are automatically putting job applicants with any computer related degree through to the final round of the interviewer phase because they need people who can cope with that.

 

And with higher education being super competitive, people are looking to pad their resumes even in high school. If you want to go to school for biology and/or pre-medicine track, it looks far better to have volunteer time at a hospital than it is to have a job at a diner. If you want to get into a computer related field, it looks far better to be able to show your experience with web programming or academic competitions than it is to have a job as a construction worker.

 

So putting aside the people who must take whatever job they can get because they can't get in any other way, the "character building" jobs that some people might have gone through even as recently as my generation (I went through some young, but by junior year of high school had to take a serious look at how I would be marketing myself to universities) are being phased out for the more technologically oriented roles which are just now coming into their own.

 

 

 

Anyway, a little while ago fiveelementtao made a thread about the internet generation and its attitude towards work ethics and things like that. And what I said there is what I'll say here- the form changes, the function does not. Just because someone doesn't work some tough manual labor job doesn't mean they aren't getting put through their paces in other ways.

 

Besides, standards for that ALWAYS change. When I did a summer working construction part time, my parents' generation of the family was saying "you're lucky, when I was a kid, my summer jobs were full 9 to 5!" and my grandparents' generation was saying to my parents' generation "you're lucky, when I was a kid, I had to get to work before the sun came up and didn't leave 'till long after it had set!" But somehow everyone walks away with the same attitude "work sucks and I worked harder in my day then the damn kids these days!"

 

 

And with language, social conventions change. And not just with language. Even clothing. I look at some of the things these "sexy women" in old James Bond movies wear (like the swimsuits). And sure, some of the ladies are pretty attractive. And some of the bathing suits might fit the form..... but the sheer amount of material that makes them! Nothing compared to the hardly there bikinis I can see on a daily basis on a summer day out on the college quad

 

And for language, I personally think that freaking out over "bad language" is stupid. But I'll hold off my reasoning for that another time (I've talked about it once or twice, here or there, I think), but this post has already gone on too long.

 

 

Basically:

 

 

What you are presenting is nothing new, nothing that hasn't been said, nothing that society as an entity won't get over, and is the exact template that the current 20-30 year olds will be saying in about 30-50 years.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[suninmyeyes]

Are we better off today,becouse of technology?

In many respects yes.Look at the internet for example .

It is amazing ,it connects people that would never have opportunity to connect otherwise in 'old days' and helps creating and raising awarness of many issues.Connecting cultures in ways uninmaganable years and years ago.

Of course it has its many downfalls too and communication is definetley metamorphosising very fast this days on many levels.

Is it for good?Who can tell.Life has to be kept alive.

However ,'good old days'are gone,and different tune is playing which only means learning a new dance.That is all.That is why I am not a believer in good old days.

Keep moving while anchored in stillnes.

As far as foul language is concenrned I use it sometimes too .

It doesent faze me too much as I never was too plush and spent a lot of my life around streetwise people,outcasts of the society and many passionate artists .But do try to keep inner core,my home-my heart always shining. and that is what counts.

I agree with Sloppy that people will be saying same thing again and again in years to come.

Edited July 2, 2011 by suninmyeyes

[strawdog65]

Good comments and interesting viewpoints from all of you.

 

I guess I was more concerned with consideration in human interaction.

 

And Sloppy is right, that this is something that all peoples have complained

about all throughout history. The standards of whatever generation we were born into

will always invariably become violated by the succeeding generations to come.

 

Technology has made our lives easier... but is easier necessarily better?

 

Taoism has taught me that interference in natural systems will almost certainly

lead to an imbalance and therefore a moving away of what the Tao would have presented

to maintain the proper balance of it's own accord and in it's own manner.

 

I know the argument here is that since man is just part of the natural system,

then what man does and changes in the system is meant to be, and therefore in

accord with the state of achieving a natural balance.

 

I guess the Tao really does have room to encompass everything.

Which brings me squarely back to just living our lives as best we can

and making choices that are as inclusive of others as possible.

 

Peace!

[Otis]

Technology has made our lives easier... but is easier necessarily better?

The friends of mine who have gotten GPS, are now dependent upon them. People who used to have as good or better senses of direction as me, are now helpless, without their box.

 

Of course, when we all got cell phones, we seem to have lost the ability to memorize ten-digit numbers. But maybe that's no big deal; do we really need to know ten digit numbers?

 

My sense of direction, on the other hand, is a faculty that I definitely don't want to give up.

[Otis]

I'm kind of a primitivist, actually.

 

When I think of the concept of my original face, I think of human evolution, prior to technology. This is what we were evolved to do: run, climb, chase, swim, fight, etc., and so I think I owe it to my body to give it a chance to do those things. Just like it is cruel not to allow a dog to run, on a regular basis, I think it is cruel to my body, to keep it sedentary.

[Enishi]

In certain respects when it comes to communication, sanitation, some modern medicine and the ability to easily cross the oceans, I think modern technology has been wondrous.

 

In other respects I also believe it has become a noose around people's neck. Yesterday I went to a party in a small rural town and was struck by the fact that if Peak Oil starts to hit in earnest, the car-centric lifestyle of many rural American communities will transform into an absolute hell hole. It made me sick to my stomach just to think about it.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Enishi

[doc benway]

Are we better off today, because of technology?

I'd say a simple no.

 

My argument - I don't think that humanity, on average, is any happier, suffers less, is more awake, or more able to live in accordance with nature and each other as a consequence of technology. I don't see love and acceptance of ourselves, our situation, and others developing out of technology. Those criteria are how I would define "better off."

[devoid]

Some people like to loathe new technology yet don't even consider that they're very much using old technology (here I am speaking of any tao bum because he/she is using the internet), presumably cooks their rice on a stove and (for the most part) regularly or at least occasionally use a toilet and a shower.

 

This said, some things never change - they just get new labels. Take for example the traditional master / student conversations recorded in writings throughout time, particularly in the Confucian tradition. Well, how is that substantially different from your standard FAQ section on a web site?

 

Sure, with technology we may change the labels, but the principles remain the same.

[devoid]

Are we better off today, because of technology?

I'd say a simple no.

 

My argument - I don't think that humanity, on average, is any happier, suffers less, is more awake, or more able to live in accordance with nature and each other as a consequence of technology. I don't see love and acceptance of ourselves, our situation, and others developing out of technology. Those criteria are how I would define "better off."

 

Hi Steve,

 

I don't think your argument holds - let me provide a few counter examples of how technology has reduced suffering substantially:

1. Have you thought of the fact that child mortality and death and suffering as the result of labor is significantly reduced by using technology?
   
2. What about food and shelter? Surely agriculture is a technological breakthrough compared to living in a hunter / gather society: Wouldn't a vegan / vegetarian argue that not eating animals decreases the amount of suffering?
   
3. Using the internet, I was able to conduct the research required to fix my liver condition which would eventually have lead to physical suffering and premature death on my end - a feat that neither my GP nor gastroenterologist were able to do.
   

 

-so yeah, I would say that technology helps a lot against suffering. At the same time (and I think this was your point), not all technology works that way and some technologies may have the adverse effect if used in a feckless way, e.g. watching some stupid show on TV which may only serve to make you older, more tired and less happy.

 

Technology is nothing more than tools available to us. Whether we will be more content, etc. is a matter of how we lead our lives and our attitude towards life.

[suninmyeyes]

 

Technology has made our lives easier... but is easier necessarily better?

 

The way I see it is that we have almost destroyed ourselves becouse of the technology and with the technology(this humanitys learning curve is /was almost leathal,but hopefully we are learning a lot on global level about curiosity and disrepecting natural laws).

On a global level we seem to have come closer more than ever before .

For example 80 years ago who cared or ever heard of people in Namibian Desert having hardly any waterfall?Infact in UK there used to have signs freely posted on the pubs 'No blacks,no,dogs,no Irish'.Or how many people were disturbed by cutting down the rainforest in Amazon?

There are a lot of things like that where we can clearly see that humanity as whole has made an improvment and become more tolerant and acceptable(of course the situation is not ideal but slightly improved on many levels)of each other.

This makes me wonder if we could exist with majority of people in the synch with nature?Yes ,but that would also be a part of circle and would have to pass in order for life to go on.

Here is something that illustartes well what I mean,from Zulu mythology narrated by C.Mutwa:

'..And since that time there is eternal battle of Fire and Ice,of light and darkness throughout the universe.(...)And the Wise ones know that this battle must always be fought but never won.(...)May the Spirit of Life grant that this one Great Battle go on.It is a Great Struggle on which all Life depends.'

[Sloppy Zhang]

I wonder if the disassociation caused by all the barriers

that technology represents, has gotten us to this point?

 

I've seen this kind of thinking written about here and there, that technology meant to connect us over barriers we can't cross (through telephone, the internet, etc etc) is actually separating us.

 

Technology has made our lives easier... but is easier necessarily better?

 

This kind of thing is also something I've seen written about.

 

Basically, lots of people associate technology with some kind of "progress"- moral, spiritual, social, etc. But technologies are tools. It would be a mistake to project too many ideals onto them.

 

Internet helps us to connect and share information. If we use that to spread knowledge or to spread lies is up to us. Sharp sticks can help us to kill game or kill each other.

 

Human nature isn't going to change because of the "stuff" that you have. But that doesn't mean we should go back to a romanticized stone age, because we'd still have the same problems!

 

I'd rather have my problems with medicine and air conditioning than having my problems with disease ridden water huddling in a cave from monsters with huge teeth.

[Taomeow]

Hi Steve,

 

I don't think your argument holds - let me provide a few counter examples of how technology has reduced suffering substantially:

1. Have you thought of the fact that child mortality and death and suffering as the result of labor is significantly reduced by using technology?
2. What about food and shelter? Surely agriculture is a technological breakthrough compared to living in a hunter / gather society: Wouldn't a vegan / vegetarian argue that not eating animals decreases the amount of suffering?
3. Using the internet, I was able to conduct the research required to fix my liver condition which would eventually have lead to physical suffering and premature death on my end - a feat that neither my GP nor gastroenterologist were able to do.

 

-so yeah, I would say that technology helps a lot against suffering. At the same time (and I think this was your point), not all technology works that way and some technologies may have the adverse effect if used in a feckless way, e.g. watching some stupid show on TV which may only serve to make you older, more tired and less happy.

 

Technology is nothing more than tools available to us. Whether we will be more content, etc. is a matter of how we lead our lives and our attitude towards life.

 

You are offered propaganda, not facts, when you are told these things. Yes, compared to 200 years ago when labor laws were nonexistent, we are better off. Not because of technology, but because in some countries it is now illegal to work people to death. However, if the powerful so desire and nothing is stopping them, they can and do work people to death WITH technology. E.g., in China, Microsoft and IBM have workers at their facilities sign a clause in the contract that forbids committing suicide (or the family will be penalized). That's because it's a real big problem -- people creating superior, advanced, wonderfully life-improving technology are hired to work a 120-hour work week and are driven to suicide by sheer exhaustion in vast enough numbers to make this a concern for the bosses -- hence the clause in the contract.

 

A hunter-gatherer worked an average of 18 hours a week -- it was enough. (I'm not making this up, it's an established anthropological fact.) And what work it was!!! I've done this work on kayaking trips in the wilderness when we would live off the forest and the river for a month at a time, "working" at gathering berries and mushrooms and fishing and crawdadding... oh, ever so hard... and, wait, I had to sleep on a bed of piled-up dry clover, so fragrant that I would sometimes put in 18 hours of sleep, just because it was so good that you felt how good it was while you were asleep, and willed yourself to sleep some more... and, well, yes, I had to swing an ax to chop down a few dry branches for the fire if I couldn't find enough on the ground... and, well, yes, I did have to dig out the wild garlic and gather sorrel for the soup... and the wild strawberries and bilberries had me practically crawl on my hands and knees for hours because my jaws couldn't stop working... soooo hard... the best memories of my life.

 

What you hear about "child mortality" is the outcome of malnourished, overworked poor living in inhuman conditions due to -- what, lack of technology? Or maybe lack of access to, e.g., pristine unmolested forests that would feed them -- ever heard about the death penalty for shooting the lord's deer in the lord's woods?.. no wait, for the deer they would hang the whole family, individual death penalty was for the lord's quail... Sheesh... And now that the lord has showered us with technology, we kneel and praise him. Well, I don't fuckin' (sorry Strawdog65) kneel before the archons. I kneel before a wild strawberry. Lords of technology are a dime a dozen, but wild strawberries -- THAT they have pretty much gotten rid of by now... along with millions of other miracles and wonders.

 

The internet helped fix your liver condition? I'm glad to hear that, please stay healthy. But are you sure technology wasn't the CAUSE of your liver condition? It often is... more often than not... ever heard the expression "modern disease?" What do you think it means?..

[devoid]

You are offered propaganda...

 

With the word 'labor' I meant childbirth - not work...

 

Here's an example of a charity that helps women who barely survived it in the developing world and who suffer tremendously as a result of not having technology available to during labor (i.e. childbirth): http://www.fistulafoundation.org/

 

Also, w.r.t. eating rice, etc. as opposed to meat does ensure against the animals in question from suffering. So, we could all eat mushrooms instead collected from the forest. Sure, but you can't feed 5-7 billion people forest mushrooms - even if there had never been any deforestation.

 

Finally, the liver thing is indeed my own - turns out my great grandmother died from the same thing in her mid-forties - the root of it turns out to be a milk allergy that causes internal clogging of the bile system.

 

Be well.

[Taomeow]

I know the difference between labor and labor, been there done both. What I meant was, a malnourished, overworked, socially and economically stunted, physically and emotionally abused mother severed from the natural tradition of caring for her own and her baby's body is not suffering in labor because of a lack of technology, nor is her baby dying because of a lack of technology. They are suffering and dying because they are in an unnatural, inhuman situation, brought about by the same forces that bring about technology.

 

As for the magnitude of the deforestation problem and the agricultural "blessings" that supposedly make up for it with a vengeance, I suggest you guys read up on some non-propaganda books by non-sell-out non-brainwashed researchers who do their homework instead of repeating what they were told by other repeaters to repeat. One recommendation that comes to mind is

 

Against the Grain: How Agriculture Has Hijacked Civilization

Richard Manning

[doc benway]

Hi Steve,

 

I don't think your argument holds - let me provide a few counter examples of how technology has reduced suffering substantially:

1. Have you thought of the fact that child mortality and death and suffering as the result of labor is significantly reduced by using technology?
   
2. What about food and shelter? Surely agriculture is a technological breakthrough compared to living in a hunter / gather society: Wouldn't a vegan / vegetarian argue that not eating animals decreases the amount of suffering?
   
3. Using the internet, I was able to conduct the research required to fix my liver condition which would eventually have lead to physical suffering and premature death on my end - a feat that neither my GP nor gastroenterologist were able to do.
   

 

-so yeah, I would say that technology helps a lot against suffering. At the same time (and I think this was your point), not all technology works that way and some technologies may have the adverse effect if used in a feckless way, e.g. watching some stupid show on TV which may only serve to make you older, more tired and less happy.

 

Technology is nothing more than tools available to us. Whether we will be more content, etc. is a matter of how we lead our lives and our attitude towards life.

Thanks for your comments on my post - I have thought very much about the things you mentioned and more.

 

- child mortality: with all of our technology, very high rates are still prevalent in poorer nations. Despite the availability of technology, we don't share it. We are still psychologically immature, greedy, selfish, so people suffer even though they live next door to a high tech hospital. One of the major problems facing us in the future is using up our resources. Why? Because we refuse to allow natural processes which establish and maintain balance and homeostasis in the natural world to operate. We fight that with technology. Why? Because we are afraid to die and shed this skin. Suffering is a result of the refusal to accept our current situation. That is what we use technology for. Look around you. Are people happy in our high tech society? I would argue that people tend to be much happier and content with their lot when their lives are untouched by technology.

 

- Food and shelter: Technology and agriculture have certain changed these things but are we happier as a result? Agricultural technology has done a number of things

1. Foods are now genetically manipulated causing enormous shifts in allergies and illnesses

2. Providing famine and drought relief in desolate regions allows for overpopulation in areas that do not have the resources to support it. In that way, the more hungry people we feed in an unproductive region, the more the population grows, the higher the demand, etc... It's a vicious cycle that has led to human population being way out of balance with the environment.

3. Transition from hunter/gatherer to agrarian culture has led to the control of food/water as being the primary method by which groups of people exploit others. The US consumes about 25% of world resources and comprises less than 5% of its population. Local food producers often find that it is ILLEGAL for them to feed themselves and their neighbors by laws related to "free market" food trade and other nauseating, political tools of suppression.

Finally, vegan or not, all living things exist by consuming other living things. Plants have spirit and awareness too, they're just further removed from what we can recognize and communicate with so we don't consider that.

 

- Internet: Yes it's a wonderful tool. It is also a horrific tool. It is the primary means by which racist and far-right organizations, not to mention terror organizations communicate, plan, and execute their agendas. It is a widely used tool for pedophiles, rapists, and murders to stalk their prey. It is widely used to destroy lives through identity theft and the like. It is allowing us and our children to become progressively more socially withdrawn and isolated from our lives and our families.

 

Don't misunderstand, I do utilize technology in my daily life and work quite a bit. And I appreciate and value it a great deal.

I think it has a lot to offer. I also see it's dark side.

It is Yin and Yang. And overall, it's my opinion, that it has done nothing to improve human happiness overall.

 

Look at the simple lives of the few surviving indigenous cultures in the Amazon, Australia, New Guinea, etc... These folks are very happy and content with their low tech lives and, arguably, are less stressed and suffer less than their high tech counterparts. They probably have a shorter life span, higher infant mortality than some areas, and so on... However, they have accepted their natural lot and are living much more in balance with their environment. Those of us subsisting in a technologically supported environment don't realize how fragile the situation is. There will come a time, I believe, when our deviation from homeostasis will be so great, that Mother Nature will finally overcome our technological barriers and level the playing field once more.

[strawdog65]

I know the difference between labor and labor, been there done both. What I meant was, a malnourished, overworked, socially and economically stunted, physically and emotionally abused mother severed from the natural tradition of caring for her own and her baby's body is not suffering in labor because of a lack of technology, nor is her baby dying because of a lack of technology. They are suffering and dying because they are in an unnatural, inhuman situation, brought about by the same forces that bring about technology.

 

As for the magnitude of the deforestation problem and the agricultural "blessings" that supposedly make up for it with a vengeance, I suggest you guys read up on some non-propaganda books by non-sell-out non-brainwashed researchers who do their homework instead of repeating what they were told by other repeaters to repeat. One recommendation that comes to mind is

 

Against the Grain: How Agriculture Has Hijacked Civilization

Richard Manning

 

Hi Taomeow!

 

I find myself aligned with what you are saying.

 

Part of the reason I started this post was because of my own disgust with

how people are interacting in our society today. There is a dehumanizing effect

from our attachments to technology and quantifying all things(including humans)

but what society measures as their worth.

 

I realize this has always been an issue, all through time there are and always have

been the powerful and the subjugated masses. Most likely nothing will ever change that,

the dark side of human nature is to become corrupted.

 

I wonder about this issue because when comparing the human system of life and survival

to the system existing within nature, our system is very much out of balance.

 

The world population is ever increasing in the countries that have the

least means of supporting this growth. The world will either need to come

together to help solve the issue of providing enough food or there will be

mass starvation on a level probably unseen in recorded history.

I bring this up because, nature's balance is being interfered with.

 

Stating it coldly is probably the only thing I can do....

Does anyone think that the infrastructure of humanity can

withstand the pressure of unrestrained population growth?

 

This reminds me of a movie in which there was a conspiracy to create

world de-population, to something like 300-500 million people world wide.

Can't remember the name of the movie though, anybody know it?

 

So...getting back to the question more succinctly, I don't really believe

that we are better off today because of the technology we have.

Yes we live longer, yes we live with many more freedoms and comforts,

but do we live fuller and richer lives then someone living a simple life

that is grounded and connected to the earth?

I think not.

 

For the average person, working a 9-5 job with family and other responsibilities, it

is very difficult at times to feel a connection to the Tao. Which is why I believe

many people can't understand that they are missing anything at all.

 

They believe their lives to be full and complete, and I would agree they are...

full and complete with distractions from the very thing that

is right in front of us, if we can only take the time to dis-connect

ourselves from the machinery of our technological world.

 

You there! Come out from behind the curtain!

Join us in the here and now!

[Otis]

One of the earliest technologies was language. And it was so powerful that it totally changed the human brain. Language gave rise to dualism. Suddenly, we were seeing the world in concepts, and extremes.

 

That's the tricky thing about technology: it may control us, in ways that we don't even notice.

 

Hand-writing increased handedness, which may have increased hemispheric specialization. Shoes have made our feet soft and insensate. Clothes made us prudish. Society made us dependent. Vehicles and elevators made us lazy. Computers made us sedentary and disembodied. Farming advances have led to overpopulation. Medical discoveries are leading to bankrupting our pension and health care plans. Cell phones have become leashes. Porn has jaded us. Instant communication and virtual entertainment have led us to pay less attention to where we are, right now. Internet Taoism discussion boards can be an addiction.

 

All of these technologies were improvements, no doubt. But they also carried costs. I think we have to consider both.

 

This may sound trite, but I think one of the most influential technologies that is yet to come, is full-immersion virtual reality sex. Once technology removes the need to have an actual partner, then the very social order of our world may change. Many men may lose the desire to be with a real woman (who needs the trouble of trying to maintain a relationship?), and seek to get their emotional fulfillment from friends (or even from machines). We may end up with a polarized and gender-segregated society, or perhaps one in which the genders are no longer seen as distinct. We may all end up very fat.

 

And then, of course, there's the upcoming singularity: when computers get smarter than we are. Who knows what that will lead to, and how much the technology may truly end up shaping us, to fit it?

Edited July 3, 2011 by Otis

[deci belle]

What came first~ technology or suffering?

 

We haven't learned a thing.

 

We just have more to unlearn.

 

But that isn't saying much.

 

All it takes is an instant.

[Adishakti]

There's this interesting bit I remember. Pregnant women go to the farm, just like everyday, sickle in hand, squatting and harvesting the grain. The baby decided to come out, they mother let it. She cut the umbilical cord, wrapped the child, wrapped the days harvest and walked towards her house.

 

This was during a time when connection with the soil and self was not some beaten to death existential discussion.

 

Technology brings fear.

 

We know what fear does.

[suninmyeyes]

There's this interesting bit I remember. Pregnant women go to the farm, just like everyday, sickle in hand, squatting and harvesting the grain. The baby decided to come out, they mother let it. She cut the umbilical cord, wrapped the child, wrapped the days harvest and walked towards her house.

 

This was during a time when connection with the soil and self was not some beaten to death existential discussion.

 

Technology brings fear.

 

We know what fear does.

Hello Adishakti,

I was just reading responses since I was on the therad last and your saying

'Technology brings fear' made me want to write few words as I am passionate about uprooting fear .

In my opinion technology is made becouse of fear and in a way it is a fear of nature.

It is a way to control nature.

But technology doesent bring fear.Ignorance brings fear.

Technology is what 'you'do with it. We have choice to use it or not.And if used to be aware for what reason.

 

A question for everyone:

What is the soultion considering technology ?

What have you done so far on the personal level?What is your plan for the future(if any)for the betterment of our existace here on earth?

Becouse actions talk louder than words.And it is important to do something instead of only talking.

[Taomeow]

A question for everyone:

What is the soultion considering technology ?

What have you done so far on the personal level?What is your plan for the future(if any)for the betterment of our existace here on earth?

Becouse actions talk louder than words.And it is important to do something instead of only talking.

I'll bite.

 

What is the soultion considering technology?

 

Same as to everything else. Consciousness. Technology is the antithesis of consciousness. I like the gnostic perspective: there is the creatress, Gaia-Sophia (very close to what taoists call tao, from the descriptions), and everything alive has sprung from her and has memory all the way to the beginning of creation because, well, it's "been there, was it" when it happened and still is part of it and is therefore god- and goddess-like, eternal and magnificent. And because of this embedded memory traceable all the way to the origins, every creation thus created has consciousness, knowledge of self. "Know thyself," which being conscious really boils down to, is available to every being that has these natural origins -- but not to any technological creation because technological artifacts don't have this memory of arising with life itself, and therefore no true organic knowledge of self, and therefore no consciousness, and because of this fatal flaw of disconnection from the source and therefore from self and therefore from consciousness, can never develop it, ever, no matter how skillfully they can imitate it on some advanced AI level or other. They can't have the knowledge of the core of creation, existence, being, because that's not where they come from.

 

Where DO they come from? The gnostics believed it was an unfortunate accident that gave rise to semi-synthetic entities, the archons... I don't know all the details (still reading up on that) but our world looks like a classic archon design, self-replicating an obsession with technology (by the law of self-similarity, resonance, ganying -- a semi-synthetic being will want to have more of the same, these are its preferred resonating media) and taking it ever farther, and now into the very bodies of plants and animals and humans (designer molecules to inhale, ingest, drink up, get treated with, get high on, get inoculated with, slap onto the skin, attach with a patch, on and on and on, by the hundreds of thousands of new kinds every year, and now also the microchips and nano-controllers and mind manipulation technology and augmentation/transhumanism movement, all that horrible undead jazz...) and not just the bodies, it's the very souls they seek to modify to be like them more and more -- turning it all a bit then some more then a lot then entirely artificial, replacing conscious beings with robots.

 

To become aware of this is the first step toward tackling the "solution considering technology." To find a solution, one must first become conscious of the problem...

 

What have you done so far on the personal level?

 

I more or less do something about it on a personal level every day, it would be hard to list everything, so just randomly off the top of my head... Quit a job in oil and gas industries. Don't own a single thread of clothes that's synthetic. Don't use anything "disposable" if I can help it. Cook from scratch, no chemical additives in foods I serve and consume. Was the last person to get a cell phone on the face of the earth, and only did so because family members forced me to so as to be able to keep in touch the way technology has trained them to so fast -- a cell phone a must. Don't have cable, don't watch TV (internet and youtube are in because communities are out -- e-media of communication is a technological replacement for the real ongoing tribal, communal, kin-based, common life-based communication. Some communication is better than no communication, but every time I talk to you, the generic you, on the internet, I am acutely aware that technology has made it impossible to go talk to my tribe, community, kin, common life-sharing neighbors instead -- as often and as easily as I do it on the internet -- for this is not the kind of neighbors it breeds... and therefore I can swap ideas with your mind but not pour you a cup of coffee, place a warm hand on your shoulder and say "it's going to be all right" and get you to hear the heartbeat in the words, see the twinkle in the eyes, smell the tamales I'm cooking while we're talking, notice they're whetting your appetite, invite you to share them with me...) Don't drive where I can get on foot. (Not many such places in CA, but I look for them.) Do study the old pre-technological ways (anything that does not involve using anything other than your own body to make is not technology in my book, it's art, craft, skill -- it's human, not archon). Have never harmed a plant, animal, or human I wasn't going to eat.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Technology is potential. By technology we can increase our potential. Other animals cannot (so much as I can see) increase their potential like we can. If they could, guaranteed they would, and for even more selfish reasons.

 

Are we better off with technology? Well, we've lost a lot of inner abilites like memory and physical endurance while gaining these abilities 100 fold by use of "extensions." If we die by the use of these extensions due to atrophy of natural abilities then we've failed ourselves, but it's our own fault for abandoning all self reliance. The more potential we have for good, the better. I think people are more good than bad and so is the use of technology; however, greed and profit is a bigger motivator than sustaining contentment. We can use technology to try and motivate more love for all life like has never been possible in the past without high tech communication and travel. I think that's the issue really, is that we can give people better ways to change things, but motivating their respect and love of all life has not been so successful. However, we've made a lot of progress there too in the last 50 years, though it needs to continue on if we're going to ever benefit from technology as an entire species.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Other animals cannot (so much as I can see) increase their potential like we can. If they could, guaranteed they would, and for even more selfish reasons.

 

Really? "more selfish", eh?