TaoMeow on Coffee

[Marblehead]

Cheese ... now your talking ... have we had a thread on cheese?

Not a separate thread but I talk about it now and again in different threads.

[Taomeow]

As for sugar. I did almost a year of hardcore paleo diet, which I recently modified to a less strict version -- "abstaining from grains" and further toward "cheating once a month." Before embarking on the paleo experiment, as is my habit, I did extensive research. The version I chose (there are several), as proposed by Nora Gedgaudas in "Primal Body, Primal Mind," calls for excluding absolutely all sugar, not just the kind you add by the teaspoon but all grains and even all starchy vegetables. Honey is absolutely out because its glycating power is, incidentally, 50 times that of refined sugar, and glycation, according to the followers of cutting edge metabolic sciences, is the enemy number two behind many diet-induced horrors of modern human functioning (the enemy number one being gluten). The diet calls for elimination of this process and keeping the body in ketosis (not to be confused with ketoacidosis, a dangerous complication of diabetes). Long story short, you don't touch anything sweet or carby or starchy at all and get your energy from ketones derived from fat rather than from glycogen derived from sugars. It is a completely different metabolic mode -- our primary one (energy from glycogen which all civilization runs on is the secondary back-up system, used as primary only because we fell for grain agriculture... but don't let me digress too far.)

 

So, if you are in this strict mode of metabolic "otherness" you don't want any sugar, not even a teaspoon. I, giving it a serious try, complied fully, with one exception: I still put sugar in my coffee. Not a lot, one teaspoon per cup is my usual dose. But to go without? Who wants to live long then? So, this one t didn't take me out of ketosis (which takes about a month to induce, give or take) and whatever glycation it may have been generating couldn't exceed what I would get if my portion of meat would have been "standard American," which it never is because it is too much and the body will promptly take care of the excess by converting the extra protein to sugar anyway! (Did you know that a steak partially turns into sugar if it's too big for you? and that's how you can get fat even from meat -- the trick would be to eat too much of it in any one sitting!)

 

Oh, and coffee has no impact on cholesterol, blood vessels, and the rest of it, those are all from the mythological lore of junk science. Serious and valid research on coffee's real effects was cited by me in the beginning of the thread -- the book I referenced has 30+ pages of scientific references to hundreds of studies, and I've read most of them.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Taomeow

[Antares]

As for paleo and abstaining from grains it would be off topic. I can only say here that I trust TCM. And there is point of view that grains are most balancing body and mind food. The scientific notion on the harm of grains coming from western perspective on food as consisting of certain nutrients differs from ancient TCM's perspective on food. In TCM it's more about qi of the certain food. And it's more about cooling, warming or balancing qualities. The same is for coffee actually. It's warming but drying out when taking in excess. It's god for people with yan deficiency. I have never seen anything against grains in TCM. I came across the point of view that abstaining from grains is only daoists metaphor and should not be understood literally. But meat if you go with idea of paleo diet... It has some warming qualities but everything is about amount. And I would say it's not spiritual. Meat is concentarted form of animal's consciousness. I would be careful with this theory. I myself tried it for few months and quit it. It was good for the body but bad for my mind. Now I prefer grains and vegies and eggs.

 

But another case with SUGAR. It's not only bc glucose but it 's more coming from perspective that it's poison - absolutely unnatural product which does much harm, there is no any qi in it, nothing balancing whatsover. But in TCM there is praise for honey. It has yan warming qualitiy and reach of useful nutrients according to scientific point of view. So I prefer honey to sugar when I have tea or coffee.

[Antares]

As for cholesterol I can't argue with it. I came across some scientific notion that the harm of cholesterol is myth and even that we need it, especially men. So I can't take fully the idea of the coffee harm and anyway I don't take it more often than twice a day.

But all food has two sides as I mentioned before. There are modern scientific notions about it and another is "homeopathic" which is more about how certain food affects the mind and energy. I read Haneman's (the father of homeopathy) point of view on coffee and he ragarded it as medicine but not drink which can be taken every day. Yes it stimulates stamina of the body and good for concentration but after short charge of energy the discharge is coming. And then you need more and more coffee. It's stumulant and no any scientific research can indicate this from its limited perspective.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Antares

[Taomeow]

TCM is trustworthy, wider and older taoism, to me, even more so. TCM as we know it was created in an agricultural setting, taoism derives from pre-agruiculture. The taoist tradition of Abstaining From Grains is both dietary and spiritual. The theory is that there's three monsters (sometimes translated as "three worms") that settle in the body of a human eating grains and feed off grains. These monsters damage your health both physical and spiritual -- and what's especially not nice of them is that they prompt you to do stupid things and then, once a month, report to the Jade Emperor that you did indeed do these stupid things!

 

Nutrition for taoist alchemical cultivation is a bit different from "general" and some schools hold that Abstaining From Grains is a prerequisite to passing through certain gates to some "next" levels of cultivation. So I didn't just go with modern science on this -- never do, all I use it for is to update myself on what it may have "stumbled upon" that my true teachers knew thousands of years ago. Just for the irony of it, you know. Besides, I talk to different people about these things, and if someone prefers the language of modern science, fine, I'm fluent. If they prefer the language of taoist alchemy -- well, I'm after proficiency in that too, continuously, but that's a bit harder than epigenetics and the like.

[Marblehead]

Did I mention that I keep honey in the house at all times? Good stuff! If I am drinking hot tea there will be some honey in it and quite likely some Southern Comfort as well.

 

Anyhow, yes, I am drinking a cup of coffee right now.

[i am]

After reading master Lam's book on zang zhuang, I started putting honey on my water in the mornings. Up till recently, I was just doing warm honey water and no other breakfast till around 930 or 10 then some nuts. But I'm trying out new (non packaged non freeze dried) food for backpacking, so I'm learning how to cook breakfast grains with minimal fuel and water.

 

Anyway...I like honey water for breakfast. For all purpose sweetener I've been using maple syrup, but I sweeten very few things.

 

But...I liked this thread best when it stuck to mostly to coffee

Edited August 21, 2013 by i am

[Marblehead]

But...I liked this thread best when it stuck to mostly to coffee

Yeah, but there is only so much one can say about wonderful, delicious coffee.

[i am]

That is true

[Antares]

Tao_meow, you know what? I have never stumbled upon any authentic taoist (I mean not doubtful qigong masters who call upon bigu and so on) who said anything against grains. I personally would be careful with such theories. I read orientalist E. Torchinov essay on this (he was very good orientalist) and that was mentioned in that essay that there was notion of "abstaining of five grains", which meant some mundane human qualities which taoists should abandon and that there was a notion of "grain immortal" meaning Gui Xian (ghost immortal) which meant attainment of "false immortality".

They say TCM at least 3000 years old.

 

And I know that modern prominent taoists ate grains but not meat at all. For example renowned Lu Zijian who died at age of 118 : http://www.danwei.com/knight-of-the-yangtze-lu-zijian-dies-at-the-legendary-age-of-118/

 

He ate bread every day and rice.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1370&dat=20011205&id=v5kVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=nAsEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6606,686593

 

 

He said that

 

The key to a long and healthy life is a combination of movement and stillness- cultivating life by guiding the qi, the vital energy of the body, and moving the hands and feet through the practice of Chinese boxing.

 

And I doubt that he drank coffee and I am sure he did not eat any meat at all.

 

 

He is a vegetarian, staying away from meat and fish. His favorite food is tomatoes. He meditates for an hour and a half starting at 2 p.m., goes to bed at 11 p.m., and lives at his grandson's home where he eats anything they cook. He told others a secret: eat raw tomatoes every day. They are a good thing.

 

http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/7-9-9/59524.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkMbMJ9JFaY

[Ish]

As for sugar. I did almost a year of hardcore paleo diet, which I recently modified to a less strict version -- "abstaining from grains" and further toward "cheating once a month." Before embarking on the paleo experiment, as is my habit, I did extensive research. The version I chose (there are several), as proposed by Nora Gedgaudas in "Primal Body, Primal Mind," calls for excluding absolutely all sugar, not just the kind you add by the teaspoon but all grains and even all starchy vegetables. Honey is absolutely out because its glycating power is, incidentally, 50 times that of refined sugar, and glycation, according to the followers of cutting edge metabolic sciences, is the enemy number two behind many diet-induced horrors of modern human functioning (the enemy number one being gluten). The diet calls for elimination of this process and keeping the body in ketosis (not to be confused with ketoacidosis, a dangerous complication of diabetes). Long story short, you don't touch anything sweet or carby or starchy at all and get your energy from ketones derived from fat rather than from glycogen derived from sugars. It is a completely different metabolic mode -- our primary one (energy from glycogen which all civilization runs on is the secondary back-up system, used as primary only because we fell for grain agriculture... but don't let me digress too far.)

 

So, if you are in this strict mode of metabolic "otherness" you don't want any sugar, not even a teaspoon. I, giving it a serious try, complied fully, with one exception: I still put sugar in my coffee. Not a lot, one teaspoon per cup is my usual dose. But to go without? Who wants to live long then? So, this one t didn't take me out of ketosis (which takes about a month to induce, give or take) and whatever glycation it may have been generating couldn't exceed what I would get if my portion of meat would have been "standard American," which it never is because it is too much and the body will promptly take care of the excess by converting the extra protein to sugar anyway! (Did you know that a steak partially turns into sugar if it's too big for you? and that's how you can get fat even from meat -- the trick would be to eat too much of it in any one sitting!)

 

 

That's really interesting, what are the effects/benefits of being in ketosis?

Edited August 22, 2013 by Ish

[Marblehead]

And I doubt that he drank coffee and I am sure he did not eat any meat at all.

Pretty good chance he drank tea though.

 

And there was the monk who ate pickles.

[Antares]

"Ketogenic diet" does make sense only for those who are diabetic or largely overweight. It is reserve option of a body metabolism. Dangerous for liver and spleen.

 

 

The classic therapeutic ketogenic diet was developed for treatment of paediatric epilepsy. The ketogenic diet may be a successful treatment for several rare metabolic diseases

[Antares]

Did I mention that I keep honey in the house at all times? Good stuff! If I am drinking hot tea there will be some honey in it and quite likely some Southern Comfort as well.

 

Anyhow, yes, I am drinking a cup of coffee right now.

 

 

I hope you know that honey produces harm chemicals when heated up to 60 C. And that it must be raw honey otherwise it has near sugar qualities.

[Marblehead]

I hope you know that honey produces harm chemicals when heated up to 60 C. And that it must be raw honey otherwise it has near sugar qualities.

I hope you know that I don't give a shit. Hehehe. (Sorry.)

 

Did you know that honey is the only natural food that will never spoil? (Yes, it will turn to crystal, sugar-like form fut it still won't spoil. Two thousand year old honey, if it was in an air tight container, can still be safely eaten.)

[Antares]

.Natural crystallization is not what I meant. Okey. No stress

[Marblehead]

.Natural crystallization is not what I meant. Okey. No stress

Hehehe.

 

I'm an old man. I've apparently been doing something right. Not enough time left for me to be making any serious changes in my life.

[Antares]

Wish you long journey, he he

[Marblehead]

Wish you long journey, he he

Thanks. Right now I am not on any medications. But I still have a long way to go on my journey. (That's my opinion; we'll see what nature has to say about it.)

 

You have a great journey as well.

 

 

BTW I do need to cut back on the soda-pop though. I was doing sugar sweetened cool-aide for a while but got too lazy to make it. (I can't stand artificial sweeteners.)

Edited August 22, 2013 by Marblehead

[Antares]

Any sugar, artificial sweeteners, cola like, soda like... drinks are bad for kidney essence. It depletes kidneys yan essence. The more one takes it the less kidneys yan and worse blood circulation. You can say oh i just take it very little amount...

For me that only mean you deplete kidneys yan slowly. Slow and steady

[Marblehead]

Any sugar, artificial sweeteners, cola like, soda like... drinks are bad for kidney essence. It depletes kidneys yan essence. The more one takes it the less kidneys yan and worse blood circulation. You can say oh i just take it very little amount...

For me that only mean you deplete kidneys yan slowly. Slow and steady

Hehehe. Okay, I have to agree with you on this one. But have you ever tried drinking unsweetened cool-aide? That is horrible stuff. And drinking just water is so boring. And if you told me I shouldn't smoke I would agree with you there too.

 

Anyhow, it's time to relax with some soda and popcorn.

[Apech]

Does every post have to have at least one ?

[Antares]

Does every post have to have at least one coke and popcorn.gif?

In this thread yes!

[Antares]

Hehehe. Okay, I have to agree with you on this one. But have you ever tried drinking unsweetened cool-aide? That is horrible stuff. And drinking just water is so boring. And if you told me I shouldn't smoke I would agree with you there too.

 

Anyhow, it's time to relax with some soda and popcorn.

 

Enjoy. BTW I stumbled upon TCM doctor opinion that warm plain water is the best drink and medicine ever existed on Earth.

That what I drink mostly adding "dragon herbs" compounds or DH's tea bags with plants. But that's me.

Warm water is good for kidneys, stomach and spleen. But much of cold water is bad for kidneys. And makes body excessive with dampness. Or you can add teaspoon of honey to the glass of warm (not hot) water. he he

Sorry, Ghost cat, I forgot to add one.... to this post he he

[Apech]

In this thread yes!

 

Where's your then?