TaoMeow on Coffee

[Qingtian]

For what it's worth, all of the good TCM doctors I've seen have said that coffee is healthy if you drink an appropriate amount in the appropriate ways.

 

I drink a cup or two per day of good quality coffee in the morning and use a glass device called a "Chemex" - it looks like a giant Erlenmeyer flask, and is very easy to use, you put in a filter and pour hot water over the ground beans. Very easy to use.

[Taomeow]

Intakes of Antioxidants in Coffee, Wine, and Vegetables Are Correlated with Plasma Carotenoids in Humans¹

+ Author Affiliations

1. Lipid Clinic, Medical Department, Rikshospitalet, University of Oslo, Oslo, Norway;
2. ^*Institute for Nutrition Research, Faculty of Medicine, University of Oslo, Oslo, Norway; and
3. ^†Division of Epidemiology, School of Public Health, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN

Abstract

The consumption of fruits and vegetables reduces the risk of major chronic degenerative diseases. The active compounds and the mechanisms involved in this protective effect have not been well defined. The objective of this study was to determine the contribution of various food groups to total antioxidant intake, and to assess the correlations of the total antioxidant intake from various food groups with plasma antioxidants. We collected 7-d weighed dietary records in a group of 61 adults with corresponding plasma samples, and used data from a nationwide survey of 2672 Norwegian adults based on an extensive FFQ. The total intake of antioxidants was ∼17 mmol/d with β-carotene, α-tocopherol, and vitamin C contributing <10%. The intake of coffee contributed ∼11.1 mmol, followed by fruits (1.8 mmol), tea (1.4 mmol), wine (0.8 mmol), cereals (i.e., all grain containing foods; 0.8 mmol), and vegetables (0.4 mmol). The intake of total antioxidants was significantly correlated with plasma lutein, zeaxanthin, and lycopene. Among individual food groups, coffee, wine, and vegetables were significantly correlated with dietary zeaxanthin, β-carotene, and α-carotene. These data agree with the hypothesis that dietary antioxidants other than the well-known antioxidants contribute to our antioxidant defense. Surprisingly, the single greatest contributor to the total antioxidant intake was coffee.

 

 

Eur J Clin Nutr. 2003 Oct;57(10):1275-82.

Contribution of beverages to the intake of lipophilic and hydrophilic antioxidants in the Spanish diet.

Pulido R¹, Hernández-García M, Saura-Calixto F.

Author information

Abstract

OBJECTIVE:

To investigate the contribution of beverages to the intake of lipophilic and hydrophilic antioxidants in the Spanish diet.

DESIGN:

This includes the following (i) estimation of the daily intakes of beverages in Spain, from national food consumption data obtained from annual surveys of 5400 households, 700 hotels and restaurants and 200 institutions; (ii) determination of total antioxidant capacity in the selected beverages using two complementary procedures: ferric reducing ability of plasma (FRAP), which measures the ferric reduction capacity, and ABTS, which measures the radical scavenging capacity; (iii) determination of the antioxidant capacity in both lipophilic and hydrophilic extracts of the beverages; (iv) determination of the antioxidant efficiency of the lipophilic and hydrophilic phase of the beverages; and (v) estimation of the intake of dietary antioxidants from beverages in comparison with the daily requirements of antioxidant vitamins C and E.

RESULTS:

The contribution of beverages to the antioxidant intake in the Spanish diet is estimated at 1623 mg of vitamin E and 598 mg of vitamin C by FRAP, and 1521 mg of vitamin E and 556 mg of vitamin C by ABTS.

Coffee is the main contributor (66 and 61% by FRAP and ABTS, respectively), followed by red wine (16 and 22%), fruit juices (6 and 5%), beer (4 and 5%), tea (3 and 5%) and milk (4 and 1%).

CONCLUSIONS:

Beverages account for a very high proportion of dietary antioxidant intake as compared to intake of antioxidant vitamins C and E. Although their metabolic effect must be affected by the bioavailability of the antioxidants, the significance of this intake for antioxidant status and health should be considered.

• PMID:
• 14506489
• [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Edited February 27, 2014 by Taomeow

[Mark Foote]

Sometimes I wonder if my strong coffee two or three times a day routine isn't lifing calcium from my teeth, which have been steadily crumbling from the back forward for some time. A dentist told me it might look like decay, but it was resorption.

 

I have stopped drinking coffee before breakfast, just to give myself some ballast before I launch off. This makes for a very interesting sitting first thing in the morning, one that I seemingly never get used to- I'm thinking it's a good thing.

[Marblehead]

Well, I don't have to worry about coffee damaging my teeth. I don't have any.

[growant]

Thanks for the comprehensive response Taomeow. I know you're down on Starbucks coffee, but are you familiar with the expensive Clover machine that some locations have? It doesn't use a paper filter but rather a metal screen so I think the coffee it produces would retain the oils and their benefits you speak of?

 

Wonder what other foods/beverages you recommend for increasing jing?

[thelerner]

There's a clover machine at a Starbucks by me. Its good, particularly in that you have a choice of exotic beans and they freshly grind them. It makes a very tasty cup. On the other hand I don't notice the same 'oil' slick on top that I see when from using a french press. Maybe I'm not looking closely enough.

 

Edit, sipping some Sumatra from the clover machine now. The 'barista' confirmed no oil slick created. There may be a double soak system that knocks out the oils.

[GreytoWhite]

The Clover machines are interesting. I think it's the 70 micron filter that is keeping the oil from your cup. French presses usually don't have that fine of a mesh. Also Starbucks over roasts their coffee which leads to excess oil on the bean - except for their sad excuse of the Blonde roast.

[Taomeow]

Thanks for the comprehensive response Taomeow. I know you're down on Starbucks coffee, but are you familiar with the expensive Clover machine that some locations have? It doesn't use a paper filter but rather a metal screen so I think the coffee it produces would retain the oils and their benefits you speak of?

 

Wonder what other foods/beverages you recommend for increasing jing?

No, I don't know that machine. The best machine I know, which debatably could compete with the ibrik in terms of the final product's quality, was a German made slow drip device my parent owned when I was just developing my coffee discernment. It was a kind of a pressure cooker that jammed the liquid through the layer of coffee and the likes of it I was unable to find since. I've no idea what it was called. A Krups machine that seemed to be functioning in a similar fashion that I had for a while was no more than half as good. There's Italian ones of which some might do the job, but they are way expensive and I know for a fact that they won't improve on perfection that ibrik supplies me with, so I don't see a reason to invest. I came across one at a thrift shop once and bought it, but something was wrong with it, don't remember what it was but I donated it back. One more important feature of my coffee that Starbucks doesn't have is the water I use -- artesian, from a once celebrated local source that, unfortunately, is gaining popularity again so you have to wait in line in front of the watering hole more often than not. I refill my supplies every couple of weeks, and there's no going back to bottled water, let alone tap water which is really nasty in our parts.

 

As for foods that can replenish jing, they are rare and far between and mostly exotic or expensive or both. Sea horses, oysters, mountain yam (nagaime), konnyaku, to an extent ox tails and some organ meats, to an extent shellfish, ginseng of course (but ginseng has to be old and the age of its consumer matters -- it has different effects on older and younger people), caviar. I'm currently exploring chia seeds for possible jing replenishing effects -- they are not Chinese, they are originally an Aztec staple, and there's things about them that make me think they may fit the bill, but like I said, I'm still studying them, both empirically and theoretically.

[GreytoWhite]

TaoMeow here are some machines that I like quite a bit. They may produce similar results to what you are describing in the German machine.

http://www.lovethelittleguy.com/products/the-little-guy

 

http://www.amazon.com/Tabletop-Siphon-Syphon-Alcohol-Burner/dp/B002CVTKTW

[Taomeow]

TaoMeow here are some machines that I like quite a bit. They may produce similar results to what you are describing in the German machine.

 

http://www.lovethelittleguy.com/products/the-little-guy

 

http://www.amazon.com/Tabletop-Siphon-Syphon-Alcohol-Burner/dp/B002CVTKTW

 

Thanks for the links.

 

The first one may indeed be similar to what my parents had -- but it's $699, and a good ibrik that yields a superior brew if you know what you're doing is $15. Of course I'd love to have that machine too for when I have no time or patience to watch over the ibrik (and you do have to watch over it, that's the downside, you can't space out on it), but for one tenth of the price, no more. I already have one ridiculously expensive kitchen machine (a Norwalk juicer) and there were times when I used it enough to justify the investment, besides they are forever machines -- never break down and can be inherited by grandchildren and great-grandchildren (unless a solar flare knocks out the electrical grid and renders them useless -- something that will never endanger an ibrik), so I feel that, for a technophobe, I've already exceeded my quota.

 

The second one, a vacuum siphon, I do own (a different model). It doesn't produce coffee that meets my specs. I occasionally make green tea in it, that's where it truly shines. The temperature is not high enough to extract what should be extracted from coffee and the pressure is all on the water but none on the grinds (pressure is an important factor for proper extraction -- an ibrik is designed to create it when correct proportions are used), so the resulting brew is weak and flat, in the case of coffee. However, the same gentle treatment it offers produces good results with green tea.

[GreytoWhite]

Proper siphon pot coffee requires good stirring and a quick boil. The Japanese are nuts about the siphon and are particularly careful to stir enough. This causes the coffee grounds to settled on the filter in a pyramid shape.

[thelerner]

http://www.thrillist.com/drink/nation/most-expensive-coffee-thrillist-nation

and you thought Starbucks was expensive

excerpt:

How to make a cup of coffee that costs $54,562

Published on 1/19/2014 By Dan Gentile

If you're the type of coffee drinker (29 of them here) who wants to spend the equivalent of more than eleventy million or so Dunkin' Donuts coffees just to get a lot of bragging rights/people talking about what a dumbass you are behind your back, we've got just the set-up for you. So drink in all the ludicrous elements making up this $54562 cup of coffee, not counting whatever denomination bill you use as a stirring rod.

[Taomeow]

This guy consumed 72 cups of coffee daily for most of his 84 years of life:

 

Voltaire,

a French Enlightenment writer, historian and philosopher famous for his wit, his attacks on the established Catholic Church, and his advocacy of freedom of religion, freedom of expression, and separation of church and state. Voltaire was a versatile writer, producing works in almost every literary form, including plays, poems, novels, essays, and historical and scientific works. He wrote more than 20,000 letters and more than 2,000 books and pamphlets.

[Owledge]

This guy consumed 72 cups of coffee daily for most of his 84 years of life:

 

Voltaire,

a French Enlightenment writer, historian and philosopher famous for his wit, his attacks on the established Catholic Church, and his advocacy of freedom of religion, freedom of expression, and separation of church and state. Voltaire was a versatile writer, producing works in almost every literary form, including plays, poems, novels, essays, and historical and scientific works. He wrote more than 20,000 letters and more than 2,000 books and pamphlets.

Assuming 18 hours awake and 6 hours asleep, that would be one cup every 15 minutes. Where is that number coming from? Might it actually be a "sometimes up to" figure?

[Taomeow]

Assuming 18 hours awake and 6 hours asleep, that would be one cup every 15 minutes. Where is that number coming from? Might it actually be a "sometimes up to" figure?

 

This, FWIW, comes from a very thoroughly researched biography book I'm reading -- "Tesla: Man Out of Time," by Margaret Cheney. The context -- Tesla's autobiographical notes, where he mentions that he had a compulsion to always finish what he'd started, whether he liked to or not, it was just part of how he functioned, and this compulsion nearly killed him when he began to read the works of Voltaire. "To his dismay he learned that there were close to one hundred volumes in small print 'which that monster had written while drinking seventy-two cups of black coffee per diem.' But there could be no peace for Tesla until he had read them all."

[Brian]

For several years (while a college student and working as night-auditor at a hotel) I was consuming between 50 and 60 cups a day (except those days when I slept all day...)

[dust]

Holy shit man that's a lot

Edited November 9, 2014 by dustybeijing

[thelerner]

I wonder if drinking 72 cups a day is like adding the equivalent of 7 frenetic extra years to ones life?? minus the 14 or 15 trips to the washroom.

 

I just got a Hario ceramic coffee grinder on Amazon. Just $25, it works well, takes a few minutes but its a slow no heat kind of grind. It's allowing me to buy whole beans and not grind them up in the store. I'm drinking less burnt/dark coffee these days, trying to reacquaint my taste buds with truer coffee taste.

 

Just 'scored' some of Peet's Columbian for half price. I'll dig in once I finish the Big Shoulder Ugandan beans that inspired us to get the Hario.

 

Mostly doing single cup French Press these days, 4 to 5 minute sitting time.

Edited November 9, 2014 by thelerner

[Taomeow]

For several years (while a college student and working as night-auditor at a hotel) I was consuming between 50 and 60 cups a day (except those days when I slept all day...)

 

 

Far out! Do you have Armenian ancestry? I've seen people drink coffee like that only in Armenia. Done it too while there, for a couple of weeks. Never, ever slept. Felt great. But I was 18 -- couldn't pull it off later in life, nor would want to, everybody has their own level of satiation, different for different people and even for the same person at different periods in life. I would never go higher than three cups now, but my three cups are more like 9 standard American dose-wise, and lately I'm cutting that down to 2 equivalent to 6, because later in the afternoon I'm experimenting with matcha, and being a matcha neophyte coached by a couple of devout aficionados, I'm fascinated with the novelty of it all, and for the moment, it competes successfully with my third cup of coffee of the day. Matcha may have more caffeine than any other green tea (I'm not sure, haven't looked at the statistics, but it feels this way), but the rest of the effects are different (obviously -- coffee is not just caffeine, anymore than tea is), and I'm exploring. I bought some tools and even made a special tray -- but wait, this is for the tea thread.

[Owledge]

This, FWIW, comes from a very thoroughly researched biography book I'm reading -- "Tesla: Man Out of Time," by Margaret Cheney. The context -- Tesla's autobiographical notes, where he mentions that he had a compulsion to always finish what he'd started, whether he liked to or not, it was just part of how he functioned, and this compulsion nearly killed him when he began to read the works of Voltaire. "To his dismay he learned that there were close to one hundred volumes in small print 'which that monster had written while drinking seventy-two cups of black coffee per diem.' But there could be no peace for Tesla until he had read them all."

OK, so this is Tesla's account of what he learned, not the original source. The claim here is that Voltaire consumed 72 cups a day at least while he was writing that 100-volume work. I don't know how long that took him, but since this is such indirect account that could very well be a bit exaggerated for dramatic effect, I am skeptical. Not saying it's not possible, just sensing some potential inaccuracy.

 

I guess since it's possible to drink that much coffee a day, there's not merely a loss of initial sensitivity to caffeine or whatever, but a real wide-spectrum tolerance just like with other substances like alcohol. Probably the same effect could have been achieved by cutting back a little. A growing tolerance due to growing consumption indicates too much reliance on the substance.

[thelerner]

Portion size might have much to do with it. Six or eight ounces was standard coffee cup size in my mom's day. The advent of the modern coffee shop has sized smalls as 'talls' at 12 ounces. That 50 or 100% larger then a normal cup was. No idea what the size of serving was in Voltaire's time but it could be pretty small.

 

 

Making coffee lately I'm surprised at how much wasted water there is. I rinse the pot with cool water, then fill it with more then I need. Cleaning out the french press glass and plunger, washing my cup and suddenly I've probably used 30 or 40 ounces of water to make my 8 ounces.

 

edit> a friend pointed out I'm not preheating the french press carafe, thus losing much temperature and not getting a perfect extract from the coarse coffee. So more water down the drain. hmnnn. oh well, the stuff falls from the sky, doesn't it.

Edited November 10, 2014 by thelerner

[Owledge]

Yes, I did assume that cups meant something like tea cups.

[Taomeow]

I would think Voltaire, being French, used the standard French cup for coffee -- a demitasse, which translates "half a cup." It's actually smaller in many cases than half a tea cup -- more like a traditional Chinese tea cup, although the latter can be even smaller than a demitasse, as small as half a demitasse. Expensive or ceremonial tea is still served in these in China, and real good coffee (made in a cezveh and/or otherwise good and strong) is almost invariably served in a demitasse in many cultures. Of course it would make no sense to drink something Starbucks style out of a demitasse.

 

So, my guess is, Voltaire would have no bladder room for the volume of liquid contained in 72 tea cups, but a demitasse, besides being small, is not necessarily filled to the brim -- it's coffee that counts, not the volume of the solvent. Whether his coffee was strong or weak, I don't know, but weak or bad coffee wouldn't have been tolerated in France in his time, in his circles, so my guess is, strong.

 

As for "hearsay" with Tesla as its source -- well, I said "FWIW" which means "for what it's worth," not "ISOTB" (I swear on the bible). Tesla could have lied. As Dr. House put it, "Everybody lies."

[Taomeow]

Here's another "monster"

 

COFFEE WITH THE MEAL

by Ogden Nash

.

A gentlemanly gentleman, as mild as May,

Entered a restaurant famed and gay.

A waiter sat him in a droughty seat

And laughingly inquired what he'd like to eat.

"Oh I don't want venison, I don't want veal,

But I do insist on coffee with the meal.

Bring me clams in a chilly group,

And a large tureen of vegetable soup,

Steak as tender as a maiden's dream,

With lots of potatoes hashed in cream,

And a lettuce and tomato salad, please,

And crackers and a bit of Roquefort cheese,

But waiter, the gist of my appeal

Is coffee with, coffee with, coffee with the meal."

The waiter groaned and he wrung his hands;

"Perhaps the headwaiter understands."

Said the sleek headwaiter, like a snobbish seal,

"What, monsieur? Coffee with the meal?"

His lip drew up in scornful laughter;

"Monsieur desires a demitasse after!"

The gentleman's eyes grew hard as steel,

He said, "I'm ordering coffee with the meal.

Hot black coffee in a great big cup,

Fuming, steaming, filled right up.

I don't want coffee iced in a glass,

And I don't want a miserable demitasse,

But what I'll have, come woe, come weal,

Is coffee with, coffee with, coffee with the meal."

The headwaiter bowed like a poppy in the breeze;

"Monsieur desires coffee with the salad or the cheese?"

Monsieur said, "Now you're getting warmer;

Coffee with the latter, coffee with the former;

Coffee with the steak, coffee with the soup,

Coffee with the clams in a chilly group;

Yes, and with a cocktail I could do,

So bring me coffee with the cocktail, too.

I'll fight to the death for my bright ideal,

Which is coffee with, coffee with, coffee with the meal."

The headwaiter swiveled on a graceful heel;

"Certainly, certainly, coffee with the meal!"

Oh, what a glow did Monsieur feel

At the warming vision of coffee with the meal,

One hour later Monsieur, alas!

Got his coffee in a demitasse.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Taomeow

[Owledge]

I would think Voltaire, being French, used the standard French cup for coffee -- a demitasse, which translates "half a cup." It's actually smaller in many cases than half a tea cup -- more like a traditional Chinese tea cup, although the latter can be even smaller than a demitasse, as small as half a demitasse. Expensive or ceremonial tea is still served in these in China, and real good coffee (made in a cezveh and/or otherwise good and strong) is almost invariably served in a demitasse in many cultures. Of course it would make no sense to drink something Starbucks style out of a demitasse.

 

So, my guess is, Voltaire would have no bladder room for the volume of liquid contained in 72 tea cups, but a demitasse, besides being small, is not necessarily filled to the brim -- it's coffee that counts, not the volume of the solvent. Whether his coffee was strong or weak, I don't know, but weak or bad coffee wouldn't have been tolerated in France in his time, in his circles, so my guess is, strong.

 

As for "hearsay" with Tesla as its source -- well, I said "FWIW" which means "for what it's worth," not "ISOTB" (I swear on the bible). Tesla could have lied. As Dr. House put it, "Everybody lies."

That's interesting info. Funny how these things tend to get bigger and bigger, haha. If Voltaire had seen the mugs millions of people are drinking coffee from these days, even he as a mass coffee drinker might have gotten critical. ^^ ... OR he'd have said "Why didn't I think of this?!".