TaoMeow on Coffee

[thelerner]

Demitasse - The Coffee Wik

While technically, a demitasse cup should hold four ounces (half of a measured cup), they generally have a capacity of 2.5 to 3.5 ounces, and are suited for single and double shots of espresso.

 

Thus my over caffeinated friend who orders extra large 'Trenta' iced coffees at Starbucks is drinking 31 ounces. Maybe 10 demitasse's worth, 6 1/2 more and he'd be in Voltaire country.

Edited November 12, 2014 by thelerner

[Taomeow]

Assuming you grind your coffee beans yourself and buy them unadulterated with additives and/or subtractions, I think a more reliable way to assess one's coffee consumption is by the number of spoonfuls of ground coffee used per cup, adjusted for one's chosen method of extraction. (E.g., a cezveh extracts much more than a French press; a coffee machine without a filter, more than one with a filter; and so on.)

 

If you don't choose the right beans, you may be drinking coffee that appears stronger than it really is. Bitterness may be misguiding in overroasted coffee -- but what it contains (and shouldn't contain) that accounts for the effect is not extra caffeine (there's nowhere this would come from) but, alas, aromatic hydrocarbons created by overroasting. These, on top of compromising the taste, are harmful (and a propos not limited to coffee -- any overroasting, overgrilling, overbroiling, e.g. of meat or vegetables, will produce them.) The word "aromatic" does not mean quite the same thing in organic chemistry as it does in common use, but it does hint of the reason manufacturers would want to overroast stale or moldy coffee -- this will cover up, to an extent, the loss of freshness, aroma, and flavor by substituting harshness that will dull the consumer's senses and also invite massive amounts of sugary additions. (You all know by now I hate burnt coffee, but I will reiterate. I hate it. There's no such thing as "espresso roast" or "French roast" or "dark roast," these are all industrial/sales/advertizing scams. There's only one roast -- the color of milk chocolate. Lighter than that is suitable only for coffee enemas some naturopathic practitioners use to combat cancer, and darker, for encouraging it, since aromatic hydrocarbons are strong carcinogens.)

Edited November 12, 2014 by Taomeow

[Owledge]

After reading these things, I'm kinda glad I take caffeine pure, haha.

[Taomeow]

After reading these things, I'm kinda glad I take caffeine pure, haha.

 

 

I wouldn't be. Good coffee is WAY more than caffeine in its effects, and the best is worth living and dying for, as they did in many places at different times. Bad coffee is good coffee plus bad treatment thereof minus some of the benefits. And caffeine in pure form is --

 

well, imagine loving a particular pure, strong, piercing note in a favorite symphony, and editing the symphony just so that the only thing that remains of it is this one note, amplified. La...laaa...laaaaaaaaaaa...LAAAAAAAAA...laaaaaaaaaaa...laaa...la...

 

I'd shoot myself.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Taomeow

[Owledge]

I'm taking caffeine for the awareness boost, not for an amazing experience. That approach, as you slightly demonstrate, leads to weird stuff like for example whisky tasting, which is more about showing off one's taste buds than enjoying the taste.

Rituals create a strong emotional/mental attachment. And while that can be considered creative magic, I don't think caffeine intake needs any magic about it, haha.

 

If you are willing to experiment with your perceptions, replace your coffee with some delicious fruit juice or some such that you enjoy for its taste and add 50-100 mg caffeine to each glass.

Even better: Drink the juice in a coffee cup/mug. And smell it before you drink it.

The mind can be so powerful.

[Taomeow]

The search for "pure" "active ingredients" to pry out of complex, synergistically harmonious natural substances (a pursuit started by Paracelsus and taken to its absurd extreme by pharmaceutical companies), is the diametrical opposite of what I'm about. I prefer shamanic experiences to pharmaceutical ones for all purposes, and coffee is just one example. For another example, I went with ayahuasca and turned down pure DMT flat. For yet another, when I did a little gardening, I had earthworms do all the work for me, never using chemical fertilizers. And so on.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Taomeow

[Rara]

Thanks again TaoMeow for more more nutritional advice. Coffee has always been a demon for me...but I've only experienced instant, decaf and machine coffee.

 

Maybe I can work with this. Caffeine has always been a problem for me so I will look into the small quantities...I hope it works because I love the flavour and aroma!

[Rara]

PS When I am at a coffee shop (if i don't get tea - yay expensive bag and water!) I like to get hot chocolate. I'm bad. I love sugar and cream.

 

I'm a diabetic waiting to happen (genetically) Should I be worried? :s

[Taomeow]

PS When I am at a coffee shop (if i don't get tea - yay expensive bag and water!) I like to get hot chocolate. I'm bad. I love sugar and cream.

 

I'm a diabetic waiting to happen (genetically) Should I be worried? :s

 

Yes, I'd go away from sugar if there was a diabetes risk. Physically and mentally (though not culturally and shopping-wise), it is surprisingly easy, it's one of those addictions that can be broken within 24 to 48 hours with complete abstinence, with no side effects and with cravings disappearing for as long as you stay away from the substance. This is one addiction worth dropping cold turkey, it is both non-taxing and efficient to do this way as opposed to cutting down gradually, which is difficult and for many, unrealistic. But you would also have to add a new source of fuel if you go this way -- high quality fat in high amounts.

 

Check out "Primal Body, Primal Mind" by Nora Gedgaudas. You don't have to go strict and extreme paleo she advocates -- she is opposed to coffee, e.g., and calls it a "stimulant," using the language as a weapon against what she doesn't like -- this is common -- in reality it is, technically, "an herbal decoction" with such and such active properties and effects on the system, among them, yes, "stimulating," but also "antioxidant" and "dampness expelling" and "dopaminergic" and "dopamine-norepinephrine receptors preserving" and "diabetes-preventing" and so on. This you may want to make a note of -- there's been a large study that proved that any coffee, good or bad, in any amounts but the higher the more pronouncedly, cuts down diabetes risk, and dramatically at that. So, to single out ONE property of a complex active natural substance with complex and diverse effects on the system, and to love or hate this one property, is not an approach rooted in reality. But back to the point... so, you don't have to implement "everything," but you could get some valuable general ideas from this book, it's very soundly researched and easy to digest. Of course this is not the first, last and only word in nutrition. But if you are after breaking your bond with sugar, it may help.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Taomeow

[Owledge]

The search for "pure" "active ingredients" to pry out of complex, synergistically harmonious natural substances (a pursuit started by Paracelsus and taken to its absurd extreme by pharmaceutical companies), is the diametrical opposite of what I'm about. I prefer shamanic experiences to pharmaceutical ones for all purposes, and coffee is just one example. For another example, I went with ayahuasca and turned down pure DMT flat. For yet another, when I did a little gardening, I had earthworms do all the work for me, never using chemical fertilizers. And so on.

I'm not denying that there are other beneficial substances in coffee, I'm saying I don't aim for them.

And if you prefer the shamanistic way, you should know that the power of the mind has great influence over the experience.

I did ayahuasca in two very different settings and mixtures, one in a Christian-religious mass ceremony who don't even call the brew ayahuasca, others with a shaman in a small, nice, calm group, with his special mix of local herbs and such mixed in, and it is impossible to say how much influence that had on the experience compared to my mind's state. Because guess what - during the Christian ceremony where they refused to call it ayahuasca, I heard ayahuasca icaros playing, which was an episode from the future ceremony with the shaman. There were also similar parts of the experiences in both settings.

I think those substances are mere access points, and since the nature of the approach sometimes touches on the foundations of reality-creation, it is quite likely that the stuff you believe shapes the experience. (It's also practically confirmed in plenty of experiences by people. E.g. it is possible to drink a hefty dose and not have anything happen, and on the other side, some people get trippy by merely being close to a mind traveler.) With unlimited power of the mind over the experience, it becomes difficult to put so much meaning in the means of initiating them.

The only thing that probably has a tendentially significant effect is DMT vs. ayahuasca due to the administration intensity. Your preference for the latter might get fuzzy if you tried DPT orally for example, since it creates a longer experience than smoking DMT.

[Rara]

 

Yes, I'd go away from sugar if there was a diabetes risk. Physically and mentally (though not culturally and shopping-wise), it is surprisingly easy, it's one of those addictions that can be broken within 24 to 48 hours with complete abstinence, with no side effects and with cravings disappearing for as long as you stay away from the substance. This is one addiction worth dropping cold turkey, it is both non-taxing and efficient to do this way as opposed to cutting down gradually, which is difficult and for many, unrealistic. But you would also have to add a new source of fuel if you go this way -- high quality fat in high amounts.

 

Check out "Primal Body, Primal Mind" by Nora Gedgaudas. You don't have to go strict and extreme paleo she advocates -- she is opposed to coffee, e.g., and calls it a "stimulant," using the language as a weapon against what she doesn't like -- this is common -- in reality it is, technically, "an herbal decoction" with such and such active properties and effects on the system, among them, yes, "stimulating," but also "antioxidant" and "dampness expelling" and "dopaminergic" and "dopamine-norepinephrine receptors preserving" and "diabetes-preventing" and so on. This you may want to make a note of -- there's been a large study that proved that any coffee, good or bad, in any amounts but the higher the more pronouncedly, cuts down diabetes risk, and dramatically at that. So, to single out ONE property of a complex active natural substance with complex and diverse effects on the system, and to love or hate this one property, is not an approach rooted in reality. But back to the point... so, you don't have to implement "everything," but you could get some valuable general ideas from this book, it's very soundly researched and easy to digest. Of course this is not the first, last and only word in nutrition. But if you are after breaking your bond with sugar, it may help.

Thanks for the info and your time Yep, I am fearful of a life without sugar - and a 24-48 hour cold-turkey stint, well, let's just say I had better not try hard drugs, otherwise I would be in for a definite harder task lol. The courage to take 48 hours away from sugar is daunting in my mind. I presume this means fruit too?

 

Time to russle up that willpower. Why do these bits of info always come up just before Christmas? Dammit. My mental health always suffers for such commitments.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Rara

[Rara]

Oh, also, so I usually like a couple of (brown/cane) sugars with my coffee. Were you suggesting that I could benefit from drinking coffee without sugar? If so then, well...I'm not sure that I can!

[Owledge]

 

Time to russle up that willpower. Why do these bits of info always come up just before Christmas? Dammit. My mental health always suffers for such commitments.

You are being tested to see whether you are willing to make a sacrifice.

 

P.S.: "Before Christmas" - I heard that silly phrase in an overheard convo at the supermarket lately. It's also before Easter. And after Easter.

So the sacrifice to make is mostly just in your head, haha.

[Owledge]

Oh, also, so I usually like a couple of (brown/cane) sugars with my coffee. Were you suggesting that I could benefit from drinking coffee without sugar? If so then, well...I'm not sure that I can!

Embrace the unpleasantness of the taste as a rare experience; a change from routine.

[Rara]

Embrace the unpleasantness of the taste as a rare experience; a change from routine.

Yup. Takes a lot of practice...I've tried this with vegetarianism, quitting this food and that food before but I tend to relapse. The part of me that says "it's all a load of nonsense...you're fine, enjoy the food that you like" always creeps back.

[Taomeow]

Oh, also, so I usually like a couple of (brown/cane) sugars with my coffee. Were you suggesting that I could benefit from drinking coffee without sugar? If so then, well...I'm not sure that I can!

 

This is something I never sacrificed even when I did some nine months of hardcore paleo in ketosis, i.e. in a state where you bypass the secondary/emergency metabolic pathways (that are, however, used as primary ones by all grain-agriculture-exposed peoples) that are set up to extract energy from stored glycogen in emergency -- so, you get out of that mode and restore/restart the primary, energy-from-ketones metabolic pathways instead. If you read the book I referenced, you'll find out what I'm talking about, so I won't get into details, but basically I avoided all starches and carbs and sugars and everything that contains more than trace amounts thereof completely -- with this one exception. I take one tea spoon of sugar with my cup of coffee (that is, per three heaping teaspoons of ground coffee), so my total daily consumption of sugar was from one to three tea spoons. This is about as much as you'll find in a tea spoon (not a can) of soda. And it didn't interfere. So, I wouldn't ask you to give that up, just watch the amount and don't go higher.

 

As for fruit, I wouldn't be too fundamentalist with these (unlike my paleo guru), but I'd avoid all the overly sweet ones. This is hard in America, everything fruit is way too sweet for my taste, but if you stick with Granny Smith apples, some pears, plums, and (in season) berries, I wouldn't worry too much. But don't go bananas (pun accidental), etc., and keep the portions on the small side.

 

Oh, and come Christmas, cheat. Someone convinced me not long ago that diets work better if you allow for a 10% margin for cheating -- this way you don't get desperate and don't fear that you won't have anywhere to run for cover if you already feel desperate and anticipate this to get worse. Just make sure you don't START with cheating -- give it three to four weeks of absolute compliance before falling off the wagon -- and be honest with yourself. 10% can easily slip back to 100% if you aren't.

 

Good luck!

[Owledge]

Yup. Takes a lot of practice...I've tried this with vegetarianism, quitting this food and that food before but I tend to relapse. The part of me that says "it's all a load of nonsense...you're fine, enjoy the food that you like" always creeps back.

I agree with Taomeow on that seeing a single relapse as a failure can demotivate you too much. If you can accept an occasional relapse and just try to do better next time, it will be easier. The inner demon wants you to give up, so naturally the words whispered into your ear want you to admit defeat.

 

 

But don't go bananas (pun accidental)

Your wording betrays you. ^^

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=puns

[Mark Foote]

Owledge, that pony had way too much of something...

 

I used to avoid sugar like the plague, but it didn't seem to help my digestion to do so. I think sweet with bitter may be necessary to keep the sour dough in my appendix happy; I don't know.

 

I will say that I now use a cusine art coffee machine, and something like Tao Meow's three teaspoons of coffee per cup (to about 1 1/2 cup of water, actually- pretty thin). If I keep the machine clean, and use the right beans (predominately light roast, I like the Kona blend from Thanksgiving Coffee company up in Fort Bragg, CA), the coffee tastes good to me with nothing added. That's key for me, that the coffee taste good, and that's why I'm stuck on my cusine art machine, although I'd like to try Taomeow's pot.

 

I add to it anyway sometimes, cream if I haven't eaten breakfast and the morning is already late, sugar or honey in the late afternoon, preferably something like rapadura sugar if possible.

 

I probably should try to eat chocolate without sugar more often, to make sure that what I'm starting from tastes good to me. However, as I noted above, something as bitter as unsweetened chocolate doesn't seem to be that good for my digestion. I wonder.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Mark Foote

[Taomeow]

Owledge, that pony had way too much of something...

 

I used to avoid sugar like the plague, but it didn't seem to help my digestion to do so. I think sweet with bitter may be necessary to keep the sour dough in my appendix happy; I don't know.

 

I will say that I now use a cusine art coffee machine, and something like Tao Meow's three teaspoons of coffee per cup (to about 1 1/2 cup of water, actually- pretty thin). If I keep the machine clean, and use the right beans (predominately light roast, I like the Kona blend from Thanksgiving Coffee company up in Fort Bragg, CA), the coffee tastes good to me with nothing added. That's key for me, that the coffee taste good, and that's why I'm stuck on my cusine art machine, although I'd like to try Taomeow's pot.

 

I add to it anyway sometimes, cream if I haven't eaten breakfast and the morning is already late, sugar or honey in the late afternoon, preferably something like rapadura sugar if possible.

 

I probably should try to eat chocolate without sugar more often, to make sure that what I'm starting from tastes good to me. However, as I noted above, something as bitter as unsweetened chocolate doesn't seem to be that good for my digestion. I wonder.

 

This is quite possible, though not widespread in the West. TCM would explain why too little of sweet stuff might not be good for you personally -- say if you have Stomach as your weak system, Heart as your strong one, you may want to emphasize the taste that nourishes Stomach (that's sweet) and de-emphasize the one that strengthens Heart (that's bitter.) The TCM Stomach system may extend to Spleen, which may be "saddened" by bitterness in some situations (the older version of Western medicine which talked about "humors" -- substances, functions, and moods different organs produced, much like in TCM -- used the word "spleen" to mean "melancholy.") In a more typical case, Western diets overnourish Stomach and starve Heart, but an individual body may be in a unique individual situation, so I wouldn't be too surprised. Sugar is used as a drug in TCM rather than as food, and it has its many indications in this capacity. Lungs are occasionally treated with sugar too (usually in the form of herb-medicated syrup, but straight up too -- e.g. sucking on a hard cube of sugar is indicated with irritating dry cough.) And Ayurveda has way more prescriptions for sweets than TCM, though there's few I remember off the top of my head.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Taomeow

[Owledge]

Owledge, that pony had way too much of something...

No such thing as too much joy.

 

 

BTW I think for good mental health, women should have two eggs and sausage with cream in the morning.

[zerostao]

[Marblehead]

And yes, it is time to put on another pot.

[futuredaze]

I've had something of a love/hate relationship with coffee the past year or two.  I love the taste, the smell, the experience sipping a cup slowly, and using it as cognitive-enhancing tool.  However, I can get negative effects, not always but sometimes, such as the crash a few hours after and stomach ache.  As a result, I've stopped using it every day, but like to use it in certain circumstances such as days of intensive study, or if I had poor sleep.

 

A few days ago, I was in a coffee shop that had really good coffee and free refills.  I ended up having two cups rather than my usual one.  At first, I felt amazing and was able to have some really interesting thoughts and write a lot of it down.  However, a few hours later I felt drained in an unusual way, I really felt like crap.  It's been long since I've had that much coffee at once, I think I'm more sensitive to it.

 

Anyway, I've been cautious since then.  I've read in the past that coffee pays a toll on the adrenal glands (Western medicine) and gives short term energy while at the expense of reducing long term energy (CTM).  I'm wondering how true these things are, if anybody here has looked into it.  I browsed some posts here and couldn't find anything, but I didn't look over all the posts, so I appologize if this has been discussed already.

 

For now I'm just drinking yerba mate when I want the energy.  I wish I could enjoy coffee without any side effects- I know I definitely can't do two cups right in a row like that again, and maybe in a few weeks I can do better with it in moderation.

Edited June 19, 2015 by futuredaze

[Taomeow]

Stomachache is not a normal side effect of coffee -- but all non-organic crops are heavily sprayed, so it may be a pesticide problem.  Another realistic possibility -- coffee served in coffee shops has a rampant mold problem, so you may be reacting to mytotoxins rather than coffee.  I feel like crap after even one cup of Starbucks which I will only drink in emergency -- normally I make my own and make sure it's high quality.  (There's much about coffee quality and its importance in this thread.)  My home brewed coffee is way stronger than Starbucks and I drink two cups every morning each of which is perhaps equivalent to three Starbucks cups in strength -- I've been living like that since I was 15, all my life to date, and yet a coffee shop cup of coffee can mess me up, so I'm assuming it's not coffee, it's what's IN their coffee.

 

As for sensitivity to coffee proper, it does take about two weeks of regular consumption to go away in most people, and for everyone there's a "baseline" amount that they can drink with no problem -- I will get side effects if I overstep my own boundaries even after all these years.  They are different for different people, some are way more sensitive than others, but for everybody it's dose dependent, and the dose is strictly individual.  Once you've determined that two cups is too much for you, but one is fine (provided it's good coffee, like I said), stick to one unless at some point you find that there's no adverse effects from that whatsoever and want to try to have a second.  I wouldn't fall for refills -- it's too much in one go, especially considering I wouldn't drink public coffee anyway except when I had no chance to make my own.  My two morning cups are back to back, but if I want a third, I will drink it much later in the day (though not too late -- the cut-off time is also individual, mine is about 3 pm and if I drink it later, it will affect my sleep.)  

 

The bad rap around coffee is extensive and has been proven false on numerous occasions but still perseveres -- that's the nature of a "poisoned well fallacy."  It has been shown time and again that drinking high quality coffee is one of the healthiest habits a human being can acquire, similar to a habit of eating fresh fruit and vegetables in its antioxidant value (I think the info is up there in the thread somewhere), preventive of a host of disorders and protective for the brain.  As with any very active substance, you need to mind the dose though.  Too much of the good thing is not good.  And the only real dangers it poses are related to contaminations (chemicals and molds), stale overburned condition, or using it as a liquid candy delivery system as many people in this country do, either syrupy with natural or toxic with artificial sweeteners and the kind of dairy that has been molested into a poisonous cocktail of inedibles.  Avoid all of the above, and you'll find that coffee is a true friend, not a treacherous one that will stab you in the back or in the adrenals or what-not.  

[Taomeow]

,

Edited June 20, 2015 by Taomeow