RiverSnake Posted July 7, 2011 Been thinking of practicing Tai Chi for awhile however i want to keep the practice simple so i don't take much energy away from doing Chi Gung. So i decided that i would simply practice the 13 different base movements of Tai Chi also called: -8 Postures -5 directions -Is it a legitimate practice to simply practice the basics of Tai Chi rather than actually do an entire form? I would like to hear from those whom actually have a moderate amount of skill in the art. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreytoWhite Posted July 7, 2011 My Chen taiji teacher has always said that the chansigong exercises contain the whole art and that the forms are not necessary if one practices the chansigong routines regularly and correctly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted July 7, 2011 Been thinking of practicing Tai Chi for awhile however i want to keep the practice simple so i don't take much energy away from doing Chi Gung. So i decided that i would simply practice the 13 different base movements of Tai Chi also called: -8 Postures -5 directions -Is it a legitimate practice to simply practice the basics of Tai Chi rather than actually do an entire form? I would like to hear from those whom actually have a moderate amount of skill in the art. It really depends on what you're looking for. If you want to develop meaningful skill in Taijiquan, I'd suggest you get personal instruction and incorporate a form in your training. Forms develop certain skills that will be difficult to come across otherwise (song, jing, ziran, distinguishing full from empty, exciting the Qi and containing the Shen, developing the deep connection between Yi and Qi and Li). There are good reasons for why forms have become a major component in most Taijiquan traditions. It is unlikely that many of us could find a better substitute. In my tradition, we also emphasize training in the 13 postures but this is a much more advanced training and focuses on martial skill and comes after a high level of competency in the form(s). If you just want to play around with the 13 postures for fun or just for a taste of the art, go for it. The important thing to recognize in Taijiquan is that the postures themselves are not so critical - it is the mind-body connection that is key because it allows one to develop skill in listening, sticking, yielding, peng, agility, fajin, and similar qualities that are the essence of Taijiquan as a martial art. Any posture can be applied effectively using proper Taiji skills but no posture is Taiji without those skills. The form is indeed a long Qigong exercise, but it is much more than that from the point of view of studying Taijiquan in earnest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stigweard Posted July 7, 2011 It really depends on what you're looking for. If you want to develop meaningful skill in Taijiquan, I'd suggest you get personal instruction and incorporate a form in your training. Forms develop certain skills that will be difficult to come across otherwise (song, jing, ziran, distinguishing full from empty, exciting the Qi and containing the Shen, developing the deep connection between Yi and Qi and Li). There are good reasons for why forms have become a major component in most Taijiquan traditions. It is unlikely that many of us could find a better substitute. In my tradition, we also emphasize training in the 13 postures but this is a much more advanced training and focuses on martial skill and comes after a high level of competency in the form(s). If you just want to play around with the 13 postures for fun or just for a taste of the art, go for it. The important thing to recognize in Taijiquan is that the postures themselves are not so critical - it is the mind-body connection that is key because it allows one to develop skill in listening, sticking, yielding, peng, agility, fajin, and similar qualities that are the essence of Taijiquan as a martial art. Any posture can be applied effectively using proper Taiji skills but no posture is Taiji without those skills. The form is indeed a long Qigong exercise, but it is much more than that from the point of view of studying Taijiquan in earnest. Nicely said Steve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
San Ti Posted July 7, 2011 Old Green, I think that you can learn an awful lot just by practicing the individual postures and directions. I am currently training Tai Chi Chuan, but come from a Hsingyi Chuan background, so maybe take my comments in that light. I find it very difficult to learn the body mechanics and potential usage of individual postures from a 100+ posture form. Flow and sung yes, but not really those other things due to the time it takes to perform the entire set. What I did to learn the form was to take an individual posture and drill it for a week and then add the next posture the following week and so on until I finished the form. So each week I drilled a different posture and added it to the previous weeks' postures until I could do the entire form. My view is that the form is a repository of the postures and a way to train endurance, flow, and concentration. Perhaps one could view my drill as a form, since I do a continuous drill with stepping, sort of like a Hsingyi fist. SteveF and Stigweard: I don't think we are disagreeing, only that I think the postures and details should be learned first. If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that the form should be learned first and then the details added later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted July 7, 2011 SteveF and Stigweard: I don't think we are disagreeing, only that I think the postures and details should be learned first. If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that the form should be learned first and then the details added later. Hi San Ti, I also practice Xingyiquan as well. As I teach the form, I insure that each posture is being learned more or less correctly. There is always room for adding detail and making corrections as skill is developed. I would not object to a skilled martial artist learning the basic 13 postures and working martial applications and perfecting those postures without learning the form. What will happen, however, is that they will not be Taijiquan. They will have the flavor of the existing martial artist's knowledge. Learning the postures will add to the martial artist's knowledge and skill but will be lacking, I think. Adding slow and mindful form practice after learning the basic 13 should not be a problem although some "un-learining" may be necessary as the movements are linked together and done slowly and mindfully. True Taijiquan is Zhan Nian Lian Sui Bu Diu Ding, it is yielding, it is light and agile, it has certain qualities that require specific training methods. In my opinion, many of these qualities come directly out of the form practice and I'm not aware of a better way to teach them. There are no short cuts in mastering Taijiquan. What I have found when teaching students martial applications too early is that they apply the techniques in a manner similar to other martial arts (using li, rather than yi; too much force, no sensitivity, etc..). So I do believe that it is advantageous to become skillful at the form before teaching martial application. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 7, 2011 Been thinking of practicing Tai Chi for awhile however i want to keep the practice simple so i don't take much energy away from doing Chi Gung. So i decided that i would simply practice the 13 different base movements of Tai Chi also called: -8 Postures -5 directions -Is it a legitimate practice to simply practice the basics of Tai Chi rather than actually do an entire form? I would like to hear from those whom actually have a moderate amount of skill in the art. Go for it. I started with the 108 movement Tai Chi. It took lots of time and space, therefore, I cut down some of the movements just by repeating some of the simple movements. As the matter of fact, I had been doing some of the simple movements just by standing at one spot. In the meantime, I am doing both Tai Chi and sitting qigong. I've found it was very effective to build up my body energy. The reason I can do this is because I knew the basic concept about Tai Chi, why and how it works, after more than thirty years of practice and from lots of reading. It would be easier to learn Tai Chi, if you knew the basic concept. The Tai Chi principle is based on the yin-yang concept. So far, I have not seen it explained in English.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiverSnake Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Hey guys thanks for all the input and i welcome any more u may have to offer. -Gonna start just doing Tai Chi walking and practice till its natural. Then i'm gonna start practicing the postures and once i have the flow of it i'm gonna practice the Yang 24 form, still got the dvd from awhile back. -As a side note my father just told me this morning that when he was doing his Tai Chi and Chi-Gung in the park a Tai Chi teacher came up to him and they started talking. Syncronicity at its finest!!! -The guy has been doin Tai Chi for about 40 years. Gonna start taking classes with him and practicing at home. -Better yet the guy only charges 20$ for 2 months of classes twice a week. Good stuff. -Peace Edited July 7, 2011 by OldGreen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal Posted July 7, 2011 -As a side note my father just told me this morning that when he was doing his Tai Chi and Chi-Gung in the park a Tai Chi teacher came up to him and they started talking. Syncronicity at its finest!!! -The guy has been doin Tai Chi for about 40 years. Gonna start taking classes with him and practicing at home. Excellent news, sounds like the student was ready and the teacher appeared Have fun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
