the quickest and easyest way to godhead or tao or nirvana or enlightenment.

[ralis]

Really? Those that know the truth will just lie then. Those that don't know the truth will tell you about the truth without knowing it. HAHAH!! Oh wow.

 

You are a relativist as you have admitted on many occasions. Therefor, the truth is only relative from a certain point of view (yours) and is not universal according to your point of view.

[Vajrahridaya]

You are a relativist as you have admitted on many occasions. Therefor, the truth is only relative from a certain point of view (yours) and is not universal according to your point of view.

 

dependent origination/emptiness is the universal truth of relative arising.

[Lucky7Strikes]

I think that quote really clarified your points. Part of my practice is in the Plum Village tradition...

I went to see Thich Nhat Hanh two years ago and there were thousands of people in the auditorium and for half and hour he sat on stage and his right hand repeatedly was in motion as if picking parts from his heart center and spreading it to everyone. It was one of the most blissful experiences I had in the presence of someone. Needless to say, everyone was silent

 

Very awesome, I urge anyone to go see him if they can.

Edited July 10, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[Vajrahridaya]

I went to see Thich Nhat Hanh two years ago and there were thousands of people in the auditorium and for half and hour he sat on stage and his right hand repeatedly was in motion as if picking parts from his heart center and spreading it to everyone. It was one of the most blissful experiences I had in the presence of someone. Needless to say, everyone was silent

 

Very awesome, I urge anyone to go see him if they can.

 

Yes, he's a real deal for sure! Just thinking about him I get all blissful and watery eyed.

 

Thanks so much for sharing this.

[Aaron]

dependent origination/emptiness is the universal truth of relative arising.

 

Those who know the truth will not tell you the truth and those that do, do not know. I'm not sure how to explain it any simpler, but thank you for providing an example of why this phrase is accurate.

 

Aaron

[Vajrahridaya]

Those who know the truth will not tell you the truth and those that do, do not know. I'm not sure how to explain it any simpler, but thank you for providing an example of why this phrase is accurate.

 

Aaron

 

Yeah, so Buddha must have been lying the entire 45 years that he preached, because he knew the truth, but didn't tell it, so everything he said was a lie. Either that or he told the truth but didn't know it.

 

HAHAHAHAHA!!! Wow. Mind numbing.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[goldisheavy]

I am myself but have not reached godhead or tao or nirvana or enlightenment.

 

How do you know you have not? What are you expecting to happen?

 

What is wrong with me?

 

Or maybe I am being someone else?

 

How do I know if I am being myself?

 

You notice you are being unusually honest and mentally/innerly relaxed.

 

How do I know when I reach godhead or tao or nirvana or enlightenment?

 

Strange. I thought you knew the answer to this question when you claimed you definitely weren't there yet.

[goldisheavy]

Yeah, so Buddha must have been lying the entire 45 years that he preached, because he knew the truth, but didn't tell it, so everything he said was a lie. Either that or he told the truth but didn't know it.

 

HAHAHAHAHA!!! Wow. Mind numbing.

 

Buddha wouldn't lie, would he?

[ralis]

dependent origination/emptiness is the universal truth of relative arising.

 

That is a universalistic view which you have refuted on many occasions. You can't have it both ways!

[Vajrahridaya]

Buddha wouldn't lie, would he?

 

Well, truth is relative anyway... via dependent origination/emptiness, so he would say something to someone that would evolve them, even if it was merely a partial truth from a wider spectrum of reference. Life is a lie anyway, as inferred through the limitations of the 5 senses, which is a kind of truth as well, though limited as it might be. It could also be considered the whole truth from a certain relative paradigm of sense perception.

 

But no, basically Buddha wouldn't lie, he'd merely see what truth out of the infinite number of them would help the most in every instant dependent upon who was listening, thus plenty of what he said has to be contextualized appropriately according to seeing directly his body's (nirmanakaya) dependent origination/emptiness' infinite variability of mirroring manifestations towards self liberation.

[Vajrahridaya]

That is a universalistic view which you have refuted on many occasions. You can't have it both ways!

 

Oh, but it does padawan, it does already have it both ways.

[ralis]

Oh, but it does padawan, it does already have it both ways.

 

I am not your padawan! You are in fine form since you met with your meditation group tonight. A little more arrogant, perhaps? King of the world?

[Vajrahridaya]

I am not your padawan!

 

Oh no, you've got that wrong... I'm merely a padawan too brother.

[exorcist_1699]

Who would want to be detached from their senses ?

I certainly wouldn't.

We are human beings, not emotionally devoid robots.

This is what bugs me about Buddhism or the enlightenment issue in general....

 

How can you be so sure that our senses give us the most precise and abundant picture of this world? Detachment from our sense , even from reasoning, is because we know that there is a more colorful , more realistic world there..

[exorcist_1699]

Can you explain this further? What does it mean to be "detached from our senses?" And why does that bring freedom?

The reality is that our mind is split in our senses, and therefore limited by them : our eyes can't see things happening next door, our ears can only hear things happening within 100 feet, for example.

 

Yet after having pulled back our mind and consolidated it into an unity , its power , like powerless dispersed light changed to coherent laser beam that cutting through hard steel ,starts to appear and those limitations that our senses put on it start to disappear.That is why in deep meditation , we can hear things happening far, far, away, we can foretell things not yet happened ...

 

A free, detached Mind also makes the initialization of high-quality qi possible. With it, we no longer suffer from sickness and aging; no longer suffer from the pressing needs of sleeping and eating..

Edited July 11, 2011 by exorcist_1699

[exorcist_1699]

delete repeated post...

Edited July 11, 2011 by exorcist_1699

[goldisheavy]

The reality is that our mind is split in our senses, and therefore limited by them : our eyes can't see things happening next door, our ears can only hear things happening within 100 meter, for example.

 

Heh. If you could see through walls and hear for 10 miles, it would be a serious limitation as well, don't you think?

[suninmyeyes]

Detachment from the senses sounds like some rigrous ascetic practise(not saying uneffective for some)on a path of achivment which would not be a personal choice.

However awarness that arises from understanding totally makes sense.

Also I dont get these things with the mind.Mind for me is a bundle of thoughts ,if theyre gone there is no mind.Wouldnt united mind be a contradiction in terms?

[goldisheavy]

Mind for me is a bundle of thoughts ,if theyre gone there is no mind.Wouldnt united mind be a contradiction in terms?

 

Wow, that's terrible. You really don't understand what mind is. Mind is not thoughts. Mind is the "place" where the thoughts occur. When thoughts stop it's precisely in the mind that they stop occurring.

[suninmyeyes]

It hasnt been that terrible for me yet ,calm down .Just my expirience and I still stand by it although it may change .

What is this 'place 'made of if not thoughts?Like some overmind,real mind,Buddhas mind(just guessing)?Or?

For me it would be God or Nature where everything comes from and takes place.

Edited July 11, 2011 by suninmyeyes

[Jetsun]

Does not being detached from the sense mean that you just stop clinging to and rejecting what is perceived by the senses, so there is more direct perception without the mind filtering reality so much with it's views and opinions about what is coming in. So you can see a beautiful woman without wanting to own her and you can witness intense suffering without turning your head and running away.

[suninmyeyes]

Does not being detached from the sense mean that you just stop clinging to and rejecting what is perceived by the senses, so there is more direct perception without the mind filtering reality so much with it's views and opinions about what is coming in. So you can see a beautiful woman without wanting to own her and you can witness intense suffering without turning your head and running away.

Jetsun,I think it means that too and that detachment path works for some.It also maybe is the fastest way,I wouldnt know as I am not racing.I am the lazy kind.

However the point of not percieving just through the gross sense ,tunning yourself in on finer levels and being able to be soberly present is very important .

Edited July 11, 2011 by suninmyeyes

[goldisheavy]

It hasnt been that terrible for me yet ,calm down .Just my expirience and I still stand by it although it may change .

What is this 'place 'made of if not thoughts?Like some overmind,real mind,Buddhas mind(just guessing)?Or?

For me it would be God or Nature where everything comes from and takes place.

 

It's not an actual place, hence the quotation marks. But we can say the place is made of possibilities. Where a thought can be, another one could be in its place. The mind is this space of possibilities. For example, I am seeing a computer in front of me. I could be seeing many things instead of the computer. Those things are possibilities. Those possibilities are limitless. And that's what the mind is. It's also something very intimate. It's your heart. That's why we call it heartmind sometimes. It's more intimate than breath and closer than the jugular vein. It's the core of your being as well as the background against which your being appears.

 

There are many ways to think about the mind. Almost any way to frame the mind is just a limitation on it. But the best way to understand mind is to understand it as the mind where you consider issues. It's the same place were you can reflect and consider issues, the same place where experiences take place.

[suninmyeyes]

It's not an actual place, hence the quotation marks. But we can say the place is made of possibilities. Where a thought can be, another one could be in its place. The mind is this space of possibilities. For example, I am seeing a computer in front of me. I could be seeing many things instead of the computer. Those things are possibilities. Those possibilities are limitless. And that's what the mind is. It's also something very intimate. It's your heart. That's why we call it heartmind sometimes. It's more intimate than breath and closer than the jugular vein. It's the core of your being as well as the background against which your being appears.

 

There are many ways to think about the mind. Almost any way to frame the mind is just a limitation on it. But the best way to understand mind is to understand it as the mind where you consider issues. It's the same place were you can reflect and consider issues, the same place where experiences take place.

I can understand better where you are coming from,thanks for sharing.I am glad to have read about your perspective.

Mind is definetly not the core of my being or my heart though.

As you have said there is many ways to think about mind.

Edited July 12, 2011 by suninmyeyes

[Otis]

The reality is that our mind is split in our senses, and therefore limited by them : our eyes can't see things happening next door, our ears can only hear things happening within 100 feet, for example.

 

Yet after having pulled back our mind and consolidated it into an unity , its power , like powerless dispersed light changed to coherent laser beam that cutting through hard steel ,starts to appear and those limitations that our senses put on it start to disappear.That is why in deep meditation , we can hear things happening far, far, away, we can foretell things not yet happened ...

 

A free, detached Mind also makes the initialization of high-quality qi possible. With it, we no longer suffer from sickness and aging; no longer suffer from the pressing needs of sleeping and eating..

I'm still not following you.

 

You think that the mind is more realistic, when it is detached from senses? It seems to me that the mind becomes more dogmatic, more idealistic, when it is not taking the body and the emotions in, as every bit as important, as reason is.

 

When I look around at the world, I do not see people who are too aware of their senses; I see the opposite. I see people who are numb to their senses, who only get excited through over-stimulation. I see people who live in their heads, and forget the world of the immediate, which is the world of the senses. They crave novel sensation, precisely because they have tuned out from the sensations that are already there.

 

IME, when I allow my "self" to fall into my senses, when I disappear into the stimulus that my body gives me, then I find that my mind goes quiet, and the world is clear and open. In that state, I am not seeking solutions, but they appear anyway, and guide me through the world. My experience suggest to me that "I" am originally supposed to be a conduit for awareness, nothing more. Not a "mind", not a chooser, not something that figures things out. Merely a conduit.

 

When I fall back into that role, and allow my senses to flow through me unimpeded, then I find that something much wiser than me is able to stretch and take control of my life. I realize then that "I" am only a small portion of the whole, and my power is always limited by my concepts and biases. But when I tune in to my senses, to my overall awareness, I find that all the computation about life is done somewhere else than "me", somewhere that doesn't need me to do anything, but pay attention to right now. I realize that I have been addicted to being a mind, to being a self, to being in control, but that addiction has crippled my growth, and not allowed the greater mind to wake up, and take its natural place in my its life.