Yin-Yang Concept in Tai Chi Chuan

[ChiDragon]

1. Tai Ji Quan uses soft when soft is needed, and hard when hard is needed.

There is a misunderstanding that Tai Ji Quan is soft. It is not soft. It is in balance.

It can yield to a more powerful force. By yielding, the more powerful force is absorbed by void since void absorbs and gives rise to all things. 2. That is how soft overcomes hard.

But you cannot generally win a fight being only soft, you might if you get very lucky. Sooner or later you need to counter attack.

Once the opponent's attack is neutralized, there must be counter attack to end the conflict.

3. Soft and hard must balance.

 

Fast and slow find balance. There is a Tai Ji Quan saying that goes: 4. 后發先至 Hou Fa Xian Zhi Launch later but arrive before

It's like a gunfighter in the old west. The fastest doesn't necessarily triumph. It is the one who knows his speed, how to apply it, how to take advantage of opportunity and target and so on. So slow can defeat fast, like the tortoise and the hare. But slow isn't sluggish. It is prepared, it is careful, it is meticulous and mindful. It finds the weaknesses and exploits them.

 

Also, stillness and movement are in balance. There is a saying that goes: 5. 以 靜制動 Yi Jin Zhi Dong meaning something like using stillness to control movement. There is a feeling of movement, continuous spiraling within the body that is always there even in the absence of movement. It's the potential for movement. It is the circulation of the Qi. There is another saying 氣宜鼓盪 QI Yi Gu Dang which means the Qi should be excited. This movement in stillness is the excitement and awareness of the Qi. And the same saying goes on to say 神宜內斂 Shen Yi Nei Lian, the spirit is gathered within. Even though the Qi is excited and active, the spirit is tranquil, this is the stillness in motion. There are no wasted movements, there is tranquility, poise, awareness, and control even during the most violent motion.

Let's analyze these points:

1. Tai Ji Quan uses soft when soft is needed, and hard when hard is needed.

2. That is how soft overcomes hard.

3. Soft and hard must balance.

4. 后發先至 Hou Fa Xian Zhi Launch later but arrive before

5. 以 靜制動 Yi Jin Zhi Dong meaning something like using stillness to control movement.

 

If we categorize everything into the Yin-Yang attributes.

Yin: soft, slow, passive, later, and stillness

Yang: hard, fast, active, before, and motion

 

To summarize it, actually we are really saying: The Yin overcomes the Yang.

 

1 and 3. Tai Ji is Yin-Yang, both are there all the time and in balance.

 

2. The soft was categorized as Yin and hard as Yang. How does Yin overcome Yang...??? That is when the opponent going through his yelling and screaming with the Kung Fu moves. While the opponent is in motion, it was considered that he is in the Yang state. As being a Tai Ji practitioner would be just standing still while waiting the opponent to make the first move. It was considered that he is in the Yin state. Since the stillness while waiting for the initial strike motion, it was considered to be 以靜制動(Yi Jin Zhi Dong) meaning something like using stillness to counteract the movement.

 

4. While I am standing still waiting to initiate my counter attack, if you don't move I don't move. If you do move, then I move first. This was considered to be 后發先至(Hou Fa Xian Zhi) Launch later but arrive before. What that says is: When the opponent made the initial move, as soon I saw the initial move was coming, then I'll move real fast as I was making the initial move. Only a Tai Ji practitioner can do that because his muscle tone and coordination are so natural resulted from years of practice. His physical body is well equipped with higher reflexes than a non Tai Ji practitioner.

 

PS...

I'll go over the Li and Jin later.

Edited July 11, 2011 by ChiDragon

[doc benway]

When the opponent made the initial move, as soon I saw the initial move was coming, then I'll move real fast as I was making the initial move. Only a Tai Ji practitioner can do that because his muscle tone and coordination are so natural resulted from years of practice. His physical body is well equipped with higher reflexes than a non Tai Ji practitioner.

 

Tai Ji Quan can definitely improve speed and reaction time, especially if you combine it with Daoist meditation techniques.

In addition, it's important to see that I do not have to move faster than my opponent to "launch later, arrive sooner."

Often I simply need to move more efficiently. So, for example, i see (or feel) my opponent begin to attack my left side with his right arm.

But I also know that my right arm is in a position to attack his left side. So I may be able to neutralize his attack by striking his vulnerable side before he fully executes his attack. No matter how fast I am, there is always faster. No matter how strong I am, there is stronger. So I think it's important to see how to be efficient, rather than faster or stronger.

[ChiDragon]

In regard to the faster or stronger, I was only making a comparison between a Tai Ji and non Tai Ji practitioner to illustrate the philosophy in Tai Ji.

 

In a way, when you had anticipated your opponent, you were considered to be quicker than him. Philosophical speaking, it doesn't matter what part of the body you touched him.

Edited July 11, 2011 by ChiDragon

[doc benway]

In a way, when you had anticipated your opponent, you were considered to be quicker than him. Philosophical speaking, it doesn't matter what part of the body you touched him.

Excellent point.

I wanted to emphasize that Tai Ji Quan is not necessarily about being physically faster or stronger.

When you train the Yi to guide the Qi, then you can be pretty fast because the Yi moves faster than light.

[unmike]

This whole thread is wonderful, especially from the perspective of a very beginner self-taught practitioner who likes to have a bit of theory under his belt. If someone could elucidate more on how and where Yi comes into the picture, that would be excellent. More discussion on the different types of power/forces would also be greatly appreciated. Thanks for all who've chimed in so far! Steve, your writing style betrays much wisdom gleaned from experience as well as a talent for explanation.

[ChiDragon]

I believe that the idea about "Yi" is from "Xing Yi Chuan". It is a different concept as far as I understood. It requires mind manipulation as oppose to spontaneous response in Tai Chi. If I'm a Tai Chi beginner, I wouldn't concentrate on the Yi.

Edited July 11, 2011 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

What is the difference between Li(力) and Jin(勁)...???

 

These two terms describes the difference in body strength.

1. Li is the natural body strength of a normal ordinary person.

2. Jin is the developed body strength of a Tai Chi practitioner.

 

Jin can be many many times stronger and powerful than Li. Strength wise, Li may stop at the surface of impact depends on the natural strength of the individual. However, Jin can penetrate deeper through the surface of impact. I was told by my Tai Ji teacher, be careful who and how I touch someone because I may not know my own strength after years of practice. Hence, mind control and self discipline are very important to handle the Jin in you.

 

An ordinary person has a limited of Li which can be exhausted by strenuous excise. As with Jin, it is unlimited because a Tai Ji practitioner knows when and how to release the body energy and regenerate it instantly. Jin was always reserved and readily available at all times. That's where the Yin-Yang concept comes into play.

 

There is a saying in Tai Ji Chuan:

靜如山，動如江海。

Still like a mountain, move like the currents in a river or an ocean.

 

Still was considered to be in the Yin state and moving is in the Yang state. In the Yin state, one was reserving energy. Thus that was why a Tai Ji practitioner never take the initial move to strike and always being a defender. While the opponent was taken action to launch and by the time he reaches the defender some of the energy was used and wasted. At the same time, the reserved energy of the defender was ready to be released.

 

The concept here again, the strength of the offender was from the Yang state to the Yin state which made him weaker than from the time at the beginning of the launch. While the defender was from the Yin state to Yang state, that will make him stronger than the opponent at that instantly in time.

[mYTHmAKER]

Don't forget song. (relaxed energy not limp / no tension)

The more song you are the more sensitive you are to the other person

and your surroundings. Your awareness and senses are heightened.

Therefore you start later and arrive earlier.

[ChiDragon]

1. Don't forget song(鬆). (relaxed energy not limp / no tension)

This was already attributed in the Yin state.

2. The more song you are the more sensitive you are to the other person

and your surroundings. Your awareness and senses are heightened.

Yes, I know what you are getting at. Actually, song(鬆) is really just the relaxation of the muscles. The sensitivity was from the continuous practice and it is immanent. Regardless, one was relaxed or not, a Tai Ji practitioner is always vigilant in his environment. It was just a natural instinct because that was the efficacy from the practice of Tai Chi Chuan. BTW The relaxation was conserving energy because the muscles were not under compression.

 

3. "Therefore you start later and arrive earlier."

This is strictly by spontaneous reaction without thinking. This was the development of the fast reflexes contributed from the continuous Tai Ji practice again.

[mYTHmAKER]

1. Don't forget song(鬆). (relaxed energy not limp / no tension)

This was already attributed in the Yin state.

2. The more song you are the more sensitive you are to the other person

and your surroundings. Your awareness and senses are heightened.

Yes, I know what you are getting at. Actually, song(鬆) is really just the relaxation of the muscles. The sensitivity was from the continuous practice and it is immanent. Regardless, one was relaxed or not, a Tai Ji practitioner is always vigilant in his environment. It was just a natural instinct because that was the efficacy from the practice of Tai Chi Chuan. BTW The relaxation was conserving energy because the muscles were not under compression.

 

3. "Therefore you start later and arrive earlier."

This is strictly by spontaneous reaction without thinking. This was the development of the fast reflexes contributed from the continuous Tai Ji practice again.

 

Why do i get the feeling you have to prove something

I'm outta here

[doc benway]

This whole thread is wonderful, especially from the perspective of a very beginner self-taught practitioner who likes to have a bit of theory under his belt. If someone could elucidate more on how and where Yi comes into the picture, that would be excellent. More discussion on the different types of power/forces would also be greatly appreciated. Thanks for all who've chimed in so far! Steve, your writing style betrays much wisdom gleaned from experience as well as a talent for explanation.

Many thanks for the wonderful compliment. I love Tai Ji Quan and get very passionate when I talk about it.

 

Yi is one of the things that makes Tai Ji Quan what it is. The masters would say that if you are not using the Yi to guide the Qi then you are not doing Tai Ji Quan. It is said "use Qi instead of Li, and use Yi instead of Qi."

 

Yi 意 has always been defined by my teacher as "mind of intent" - it is our conscious awareness and intention. The reason that every Tai Ji Quan style has slow motion forms is to develop the integration between the Yi, the Qi, and the body. In the beginning, you learn the physical movements and all you should concentrate on is getting the movements correct with good posture, natural breathing, proper footwork, and so on. Once the basic physical movements are comfortable and accurate, usually after 1 -2 years, you can start working on integrating the Yi.

 

Yi is talked about extensively in the Tai Ji Quan Classics. One of the basic techniques that defines proper form practice is to learn to "use the Yi to guide the Qi." I find this very tough to describe in words but I'll try. First you learn to focus your attention on different areas of the body, internally. Most start at the lower dan tian as it is the easiest. Once students can feel the lower dan tian, I'll teach them to feel 氣沉丹田, Qi Chen Dan Tian, that means the Qi returns or sinks to Dan Tian. Once this can be experienced the student is ready to begin to use the Yi to lead the Qi. It is a matter of using your awareness to feel and guide the Qi as it moves through the body during practice of the form. It can only be done when you are relaxed (鬆 Song), quiet (靜 JIng), and moving naturally (自然 Zi Ran) which is why these three characteristics are said to be the requirements of proper Tai Ji form practice.

 

Over time, you develop a very heightened awareness of the Qi moving in the body and using the Yi to guide it becomes second nature, almost automatic. Sort of like moving your index finger. I decide to move my finger and it moves - no hesitation. I don't have to think about it really, I have the intention to move it - voila, it moves. Eventually, the Yi controls our physical movements in Tai Ji Quan in this way. First very slowly in the form. Then it must be brought into pushing hands and, eventually, self defense practice.

 

The other component to this is Daoist meditation techniques, neigong. Daoist methods are designed to develop a high level of skill at working with the Yi. So my teacher has always said that until you practice Daoist meditation, your Tai Ji Quan skill will be limited. It is only through higher levels of development of the Yi through meditation that the higher levels of Tai Ji Quan can be accessed. I agree with this based on my own experience.

 

The classics also talk about making the Qi in the body continuous - one Qi. That is, there is an awareness throughout the body of the Qi which is unbroken. Combining the Yi, which is instantaneous control, with the Qi, which is continuous throughout the body, is what creates very fast reaction time and seemingly superhuman speed. It's not magic, it's practice and patience.

[doc benway]

I believe that the idea about "Yi" is from "Xing Yi Chuan". It is a different concept as far as I understood. It requires mind manipulation as oppose to spontaneous response in Tai Chi. If I'm a Tai Chi beginner, I wouldn't concentrate on the Yi.

I have to disagree. Yi is in every Tai Ji Classic except one.

In Xing Yi Quan, Yi refers to the martial intent that is expressed through the Xing or form.

It's used very differently from Tai Ji Quan.

[doc benway]

 

2. The more song you are the more sensitive you are to the other person

and your surroundings. Your awareness and senses are heightened.

Yes, I know what you are getting at. Actually, song(鬆) is really just the relaxation of the muscles. The sensitivity was from the continuous practice and it is immanent. Regardless, one was relaxed or not, a Tai Ji practitioner is always vigilant in his environment. It was just a natural instinct because that was the efficacy from the practice of Tai Chi Chuan. BTW The relaxation was conserving energy because the muscles were not under compression.

 

3. "Therefore you start later and arrive earlier."

This is strictly by spontaneous reaction without thinking. This was the development of the fast reflexes contributed from the continuous Tai Ji practice again.

2. I agree with mythmaker. Song is critical to sensitivity. Too much tension and there is no sensitivity. Song is not "really just relaxation of the muscles." Then you would be flaccid and collapsed. It is a very complex relationship between mind and body where the muscles are as relaxed as possible while still maintaining the buoyancy and roundness of posture that is necessary. Song is one of the most difficult things to perfect. It also has to do with the fourth dimension, time. Vigilance is necessary but there is more to Ting Jin (sensitivity) than vigilance.

 

3. To start later and arrive earlier has more to do with Yi and one Qi than anything else.

[ChiDragon]

Why do i get the feeling you have to prove something

I'm outta here

Please don't feel that way. I'm just looking at it more microscopically and get to the finest details and testing my own understand. It's the only way that I can do it by describing it in minute details. Unfortunately, this approach may not be widely acceptable. After all these years of practice, I would like to documented and share with someone as I was encouraged to do so by a new member here. Please don't feel offended. I do feel belittled at times, but I do need your encouragement.

 

Thank you very much.

Edited July 11, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Immortal4life]

This may be relevant...

[ChiDragon]

I have to disagree. Yi is in every Tai Ji Classic except one.

In Xing Yi Quan, Yi refers to the martial intent that is expressed through the Xing or form.

It's used very differently from Tai Ji Quan.

Steve, I do agree 100% of what you said. This is a much higher level of understanding to explain to the beginners. What I trying to do is make it as simple as possible here so people will get a general idea. If we are feeding too much information to a novice, then it would be like a Ph. D. talking to a kiddy garden.

[ChiDragon]

This may be relevant...

Very good demonstrate on fa jin(發勁). First, it was to make the guy off balance then fa jin. After the initial push, you can almost see and feel the jin was penetrating right through the opponent to make him flew away. It was the guy's own body weight plus the jin that was making him fall back non stop until he landed on the floor. The Tai Ji practitioner already have an idea how the guy is going to fall by the Yi(意) from his counteract movement.

[Immortal4life]

Very good demonstrate on fa jin(發勁). First, it was to make the guy off balance then fa jin. After the initial push, you can almost see and feel the jin was penetrating right through the opponent to make him flew away. It was the guy's own body weight plus the jin that was making him fall back non stop until he landed on the floor. The Tai Ji practitioner already have an idea how the guy is going to fall by the Yi(意) from his counteract movement.

 

Although Fajing and using the opponents force against himself were not the points I was thinking about, the application of Yi, seemed a relevant point, at this point.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Immortal4life

[mYTHmAKER]

Please don't feel that way. I'm just looking at it more microscopically and get to the finest details and testing my own understand. It's the only way that I can do it by describing it in minute details. Unfortunately, this approach may not be widely acceptable. After all these years of practice, I would like to documented and share with someone as I was encouraged to do so by a new member here. Please don't feel offended. I do feel belittled at times, but I do need your encouragement.

 

Thank you very much.

 

I'm not nor was i offended.

I am not was not belittling you.

You most likely know more than i do

It's just that you come off to me as thinking you are the authority.

Maybe your writing style.

[mYTHmAKER]

2. I agree with mythmaker. Song is critical to sensitivity. Too much tension and there is no sensitivity. Song is not "really just relaxation of the muscles." Then you would be flaccid and collapsed. It is a very complex relationship between mind and body where the muscles are as relaxed as possible while still maintaining the buoyancy and roundness of posture that is necessary. Song is one of the most difficult things to perfect. It also has to do with the fourth dimension, time. Vigilance is necessary but there is more to Ting Jin (sensitivity) than vigilance.

 

3. To start later and arrive earlier has more to do with Yi and one Qi than anything else.

 

If you can read / sense my intention you will arrive before i do.

For loss of another word - proper reflexes?

[ChiDragon]

Although Fajing and using the opponents force against himself were not the points I was thinking about, the application of Yi, seemed a relevant point, at this point.

 

Anyway, no problem. The way I was taught is 順其自然, let it be natural, and everything will fall in place.

Edited July 12, 2011 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

I'm not nor was i offended.

I am not was not belittling you.

You most likely know more than i do

It's just that you come off to me as thinking you are the authority.

Maybe your writing style.

Yes, it was my personality and the writing style reflects that. At times, I was warned a few times about my arrogance by others. I will make a mental note more seriously this time and make correction to improve this undesirable habit. I apologize and thanks again.

[doc benway]

Thanks for posting that video Immortal4Life.

I did get the reference to Yi.

 

I have to say, however, that we need to take such video demonstrations with a very large grain of salt (and I recognize that this is not why you posted it).

Much of the "fajin" in that video was the younger student making the older master look good.

He was being a good demo partner, not an opponent.

You cannot really know if what you are seeing in a video is fajin or not.

You can certainly feel the difference, however.

[doc benway]

If you can read / sense my intention you will arrive before i do.

For loss of another word - proper reflexes?

You can also call it Ting Jin 聽勁 Listening Energy

[Stigweard]

This may be relevant...

Can anyone please post a video of real combat where this has been applied? It frustrates me that we only ever see set up demonstrations where the assistant is obviously compliant.