Taoist Philosophy - Conversations VII

[Marblehead]

Confucius saw Lao Tan and on his return kept quiet for three days.

“Master, when you saw Lao Tan, what kind of advice did you give him?” asked his disciple.

“Give him advice?” replied Confucius. “For the first time I saw a dragon. When the dragon’s spirit converges, you see its form, and when it disperses it gives off a radiance of beauty, riding upon the clouds and feeding upon the Yin and Yang. When I saw him I was aghast and could not close my mouth.”

“Is it true then”, said Tsekung, “that there are such people who, according to reports, ‘can sit still like a corpse or spring into action like a dragon, be silent as the deep or talk with the voice of thunder’, people who spring into action like (the force of) the Universe? Do you think I can go and see him?”

With an introduction from Confucius, Tsekung went to see Lao Tan. The latter was sitting in his parlor and said with a thin voice, “I am now getting old. Do you have some advice for me?”

“The Three Kings and Five Emperors ruled the world in different ways, but all of them left a great name for themselves”, said Tsekung. “Why do you consider that they are not sages?”

“Come forward, young man”, said Lao Tan. “What do you mean when you say they ruled the world in different ways?”

“Emperor Yao gave his throne to Shun and Shun gave his throne to Yu”, replied Tsekung. “Emperor Yu devoted his labor to water conservation, and Emperor T’ang devoted his energy to wars. King Wen continued to serve his ruler, Chou, but his son King Wu raised the banner of rebellion. That is why I say they employed different methods to rule the world.”

“Come forward, young man”, said Lao Tan. “I will tell you about the governments of the Three Kings and Five Emperors. In the government under the Yellow Emperor, he encouraged simplicity of heart among his people. Some of his people did not weep when their parents died and it was not considered wrong. In the government under Emperor Yao, he encouraged affection among relatives. Some of his people killed the murderers of their parents, and it was not considered wrong. In the government under Emperor Shun, he encouraged competition. Babies were born after ten months of pregnancy, and an infant learned to talk in five months. Before he was already three years old, he could already learn to distinguish persons, and early death came to this world.

"In the government under Emperor Wu, he changed men’s hearts, and men began to have cunning in their hearts and armies were sent out to fight for some good cause. It was not considered wrong to kill robbers. Then race distinctions arose and each race considered itself living in a complete world by itself. Hence the world was thrown into great confusion and the Confucians and Motseans arose. At first, the discussion was around principles, but now they degenerate into womanish gossip.

"What can I say? I tell you, people speak of the Three Kings and Five Emperors ‘ruling’ the world, but in actuality they misruled. The knowledge that came with the Three Kings was contrary to the influence of the sun and the moon above, destructive of the energy of land and water below, and subversive to the operation of the seasonal forces in between. The knowledge is more poisonous than a scorpion’s tail, than the animal hsien-kuei. Henceforth the people are not able to fulfill peacefully the natural instincts of their lives. And yet these people regard themselves as sages. What a lack of shame!”

Tsekung stood there listening and felt ill at ease.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Marblehead

[anatman]

seems to be a story we know well...

[fatguyslim]

[nac]

So what you're saying is that Lao Tan felt ill at ease about the condition of the world, and his contempt for universally acclaimed culture heroes also destroyed Tsekung's peace of mind? Dangerous knowledge.

[Marblehead]

So what you're saying is that Lao Tan felt ill at ease about the condition of the world, and his contempt for universally acclaimed culture heroes also destroyed Tsekung's peace of mind? Dangerous knowledge.

 

Nice hearing from you!

 

Yes, I think he felt that all the killing and controlling of one by another was a total waste of time and resources.

 

To praise anyone is setting a standard that others will reach to for the purpose of attaining praise. This will lead to competition and wastefulness.

 

To leave the people alone is best (in most cases).

[MassTaoism]

Another great post Marblehead, keep them coming! These have become some of my favorite posts to look forward to when coming here, they actually give you a little food for thought despite having never really taken place, it still makes for a fun and interesting read thought.

[Marblehead]

Another great post Marblehead, keep them coming! These have become some of my favorite posts to look forward to when coming here, they actually give you a little food for thought despite having never really taken place, it still makes for a fun and interesting read thought.

 

 

Thanks. Regretfully that was the last one. Oh well, nothing lasts forever.

 

After we finish the Tao Te Ching Chapters I might start another project. We'll have to wait and see about that.