mental obsession

[Meow]

Although the title doesn't mention it, it's a topic about mental obsession with sex. My friend has a problem with it and is searching for a solution, but cannot ask here on his own.

 

Why do I say mental? Because he can abstain without any problem, however, he constantly wants to talk about sex, to search for information on sex, and it wastes a lot of his time.

 

I know that some taoist practices allow sex, but in general people try to abstain (just like him). So this problem must be familiar to many people here. I'm looking for your experience with the mental type of obsession that lingers after you've managed to abstain for a while, if you don't mind sharing. And possibly some tips. I can hardly be of help here on my own, I do not have that problem.

 

 

P.S.

 

And I may be completely off the mark, but can't the practices of energy conversion lead to the lack of sexual obsession per se (after all, it gets converted to "higher" types)?

[Vajrahridaya]

 

P.S.

 

And I may be completely off the mark, but can't the practices of energy conversion lead to the lack of sexual obsession per se (after all, it gets converted to "higher" types)?

 

Yes, through tantric training, but I'm sure through various Taoist Chi movement training's as well to turn Jing into Shen.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Tell him to get a hobby.

 

Seriously, it's far easier to think about something else than it is to stop thinking about sex.

 

Art, music, writing, sports, exercise, martial arts, video games, movies, foreign languages, computer programming, comic books, acting.

 

Anything that gets his mind off it.

 

And that includes not being afraid to partake once in a while. If you are afraid of wasting your energy or ruining your mind, you are going to waste far more energy on the issue. If you do it, and don't think it's a big deal, it is going to be far more healthy.

Edited July 16, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Meow]

Jing into Shen.

So the conversion process actually lowers the sexual desire?

 

Seriously, it's far easier to think about something else than it is to stop thinking about sex.

That's what he's doing, but apparently it's not enough...

[Sloppy Zhang]

That's what he's doing, but apparently it's not enough...

 

If he constantly wants to talk about sex, or search for information about sex, or something along those lines, then no, that isn't what he's doing

 

He needs to find some hobby that sparks his interest and that will draw his attention.

 

Of course, he could be in big trouble, and his hobby might really BE sex

[Vajrahridaya]

So the conversion process actually lowers the sexual desire?

 

Yes, because as the energy is transformed through prolonged practice into empowered Chi, then Shen, when your Jing arises, it ends up focusing upward, dimensionally speaking, it stops being clogged by the necessity to go outward.

 

When you do this practice long enough, and you end up having sex, sometimes you can't even ejaculate because the energy is just so trained for going inward and upward and if you relax into this, even while having sex, there is no sense of outward desire anymore, the energy is fulfilled through the spiritual realm instead of the physical.

 

Before this can happen, one has to have trained in celibacy for a while doing particular tantric practices or chi gong practices, while studying the appropriate texts concerning these practices of transforming jing into shen.

 

This will take time though, a retraining of the mind/body complex has to be undertaken with focus and sincere desire for results.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Would love to hear more!

[Meow]

If he constantly wants to talk about sex, or search for information about sex, or something along those lines, then no, that isn't what he's doing

 

He needs to find some hobby that sparks his interest and that will draw his attention.

 

Well, he's doing that, I can assure you The problem is that no hobby can be done 24\7.

 

I have some experience with obsessive thoughts myself, so I can attest that taking your focus off doesn't work very well for strong obsessions. For example, you've found a task that requires a great deal of concentration and that you really really like. It takes you to the alternative universe when you're doing it, everything else ceases to exist. But once it's over, which inevitably happens, you bounce back to your old self instantly. And your obsession is back, as strong as ever!

 

So although such tasks do work, they work for a limited time and ultimately have no effect on your obsessive thoughts. If you could take such a task and do it non-stop for a week, the chances for it to kill off your obsession would be reasonable, by suffocating it, however, I have no such hobby in mind that could be performed for the most part of the day. But maybe you have something in particular to suggest? I'd be happy to listen.

 

This will take time though, a retraining of the mind/body complex has to be undertaken with focus and sincere desire for results.

This is nice if it works, there's hope for the better. My friend is doing energy work and says that it helps him in that department, although not enough for now.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Meow

[Vajrahridaya]

 

When you do this practice long enough, and you end up having sex, sometimes you can't even ejaculate because the energy is just so trained for going inward and upward and if you relax into this, even while having sex, there is no sense of outward desire anymore, the energy is fulfilled through the spiritual realm instead of the physical.

 

 

I forgot to mention, that you take your partner there as well, or ideally, she's an experienced practitioner and she takes you there as well.

 

It's not a selfish experience.

[Vajrahridaya]

This is nice if it works, there's hope for the better. My friend is doing energy work and says that it helps him in that department, although not enough for now.

 

Patience is key.

 

During a time I was doing very intense physical yoga and sitting meditation, I was celibate without masturbation, without watching tv, movies, etc. I didn't look at a women below her eyes.

 

The first month I had two wet dreams, the second, 1. After that, none. Slowly my sense of sexual desire became only spiritual desire, and the desire to deepen my states of bliss and love for all sentient beings.

 

After a few months, the only thought of sex I had, was the word "sex" would arise in my mind, but it would have no feeling of outward turning lust anymore. Sometimes when I sat for practice, I'd get powerful erections, but the energy would feel contained, internalized, a feeling of blessings instead of a need to go stick it in someone. LOL!

 

It takes time and practice, patience and resilience.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Well, he's doing that, I can assure you The problem is that no hobby can be done 24\7.

 

Exactly. You need to eat. Sleep. Go to work and/or school. Hang out with friends. Watch tv or whatever. Then there is the transition times, driving to and from.

 

No way you can do a hobby 24/7!

 

I have some experience with obsessive thoughts myself, so I can attest that taking your focus off doesn't work very well for strong obsessions.

 

I have some experiences with obsessive thoughts myself, and I can attest that it does.

 

Of course, it depends on the type of person you are.

 

Many people advocate some pretty intense abstinence routines and trying to convert a bunch of energy. And sure, that works for some people. For others, it doesn't. Since Vajrahridaya is coming at it from one side, I'm coming at in from the other in case your friend needs a different strategy.

 

And I'm telling you, like most obsessions and addictions, the thing that gets you is your habits that you've accumulated during your free time. If you're at your job, your obsession is probably taking a back seat. If you find yourself thinking "what should I do now?" that's probably where the obsession does its most work.

 

That's why you get a hobby, that is significant and interesting for you, to fill in the gaps between when you are doing other things.

 

You have to de-condition, or should I say, re-condition yourself, to associate different thoughts with your actions.

 

Because intrusive thoughts are nothing new. People have micro-thoughts about sex all the time. Some people have conditioned themselves into focusing on those thoughts to an obsessive degree- sometimes because the strategy they are using to "defeat" these thoughts is just as obsessive as they are.

 

So effectively all you have done is compound the problem, whereas, if you just let it go (as you would naturally do), you would never have a problem to begin with!

 

For example, you've found a task that requires a great deal of concentration and that you really really like. It takes you to the alternative universe when you're doing it, everything else ceases to exist. But once it's over, which inevitably happens, you bounce back to your old self instantly. And your obsession is back, as strong as ever!

 

Perhaps for the first little bit. The trick is to not have "gaps". So if you are not doing your hobby, you are brushing your teeth and going to bed. If you aren't driving to or from work, or currently at work, you are thinking about your hobby. If you catch yourself thinking about your obsession, think about your hobby.

 

Does it involve work? Yes. But so does energy transmutation, which I think, with no supports, is far more esoteric (literally) and harder to pull off.

 

Just tell your friend to get a hobby. Seriously.

 

This is nice if it works, there's hope for the better. My friend is doing energy work and says that it helps him in that department, although not enough for now.

 

Seriously. Hobby.

 

If he's doing energy work along side it, even better. Whatever the energy work is "not enough" to cover gets covered by the hobby.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Oolong Rabbit]

Tell your friend that every time he has a thought about sex, to pause and ask himself where the thought is coming from. Why is he thinking about it? It will develop an awareness. That awareness is the first step to mastering it. It's a simple but very powerful practice.

 

How old is he? Guessing 20ish?

[Desert Eagle]

Engaging the physical through kungfu, yoga, MMA, dance, external qigong (not just energy work). Changing subjects of interest by finding new interests (not just hobby). Aversion therapy smokers tip: wear a rubber band on the wrist and snap it every time the thoughts take hold (using it as a metaphorical rescue rope), this builds on the weak desire to stop.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Desert Eagle

[Sloppy Zhang]

Changing subjects of interest by finding new interests (not just hobby).

 

As a person with occasionally obsessive tendencies, that is one and the same for me

Edited July 17, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Desert Eagle]

Well, he's doing that, I can assure you The problem is that no hobby can be done 24\7.

 

I have some experience with obsessive thoughts myself, so I can attest that taking your focus off doesn't work very well for strong obsessions. For example, you've found a task that requires a great deal of concentration and that you really really like. It takes you to the alternative universe when you're doing it, everything else ceases to exist. But once it's over, which inevitably happens, you bounce back to your old self instantly. And your obsession is back, as strong as ever!

 

So although such tasks do work, they work for a limited time and ultimately have no effect on your obsessive thoughts. If you could take such a task and do it non-stop for a week, the chances for it to kill off your obsession would be reasonable, by suffocating it, however, I have no such hobby in mind that could be performed for the most part of the day. But maybe you have something in particular to suggest? I'd be happy to listen.

 

Is it just thoughts on the concepts and details or he's also physically obsessed? does he watch lots of porn and have porn magazines and wall paper? is it curiosity or lust? Could he be eating too much spices and heavy stuff like meat, cheese and eggs?

 

Is there a possibility this could be discussed in order to zero in on the source of interest and translating it into something achievable or transformable? and see the pros and cons?

 

As a person with occasionally obsessive tendencies, that is one and the same for me

 

Ok. I meant it in a wider context to do some rationalizing and future prospects on what new interests should be taken.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Desert Eagle

[dawei]

It is sociopathy. He has followed a 'way' which results an excessive aberration or departure. His 'way' is defined as such and sees no needed correction. This is an established pattern of the brain now. It is very hard to know that the brain has a deviate behavior since the body will simply follow it.

 

In Fact: this describes all of us. He is no different than most here pursuing their 'way', which their brain has also accepted.

 

There is a re-start of the brain to drop all of this and escape this way... but you have to actually realize this... and know this escape exists... good luck.

[Meow]

After a few months, the only thought of sex I had, was the word "sex" would arise in my mind, but it would have no feeling of outward turning lust anymore. Sometimes when I sat for practice, I'd get powerful erections, but the energy would feel contained, internalized, a feeling of blessings instead of a need to go stick it in someone. LOL!

That sounds really good. May I ask how much time has passed since then with no big urges?

 

That's why you get a hobby, that is significant and interesting for you, to fill in the gaps between when you are doing other things.

Isn't it the most difficult thing in the world, to find a hobby that you love so much that even obsession pales in comparison? Something that you would think of when you're not busy, like brushing your teeth, or going shopping. It's like replacing one obsesion with another, less harmful.

 

Perhaps for the first little bit. The trick is to not have "gaps". So if you are not doing your hobby, you are brushing your teeth and going to bed. If you aren't driving to or from work, or currently at work, you are thinking about your hobby. If you catch yourself thinking about your obsession, think about your hobby.

What do you think of when you're brushing your teeth and going to bed? There are many gaps, since many activities do not require high concentration. I personally find my thoughts wandering during most of day activities, since they can be done automatically. Moreover, doing them non-automatically with paying attention quickly becomes extremely boring, since you've been doing them for years and years.

 

In my own experince only intense enough intellectual "work" can take off your mind from something. Physical activities don't work like that, and all gaps are usually physical activities. But your mind has to think of something all the time.

 

How old is he? Guessing 20ish?

No, he'll be turning 40 in a few years

 

Is it just thoughts on the concepts and details or he's also physically obsessed? does he watch lots of porn and have porn magazines and wall paper? is it curiosity or lust? Could he be eating too much spices and heavy stuff like meat, cheese and eggs?

It's not physical obsession, no problem there, it's mental. My guess is that it's about curiosity, since he's never been with a woman (for spiritual reasons). I didn't notice it before, but maybe he hid the obsession too well or I simply ignored it too well, as sex has never meant anything for me. No porn or whatever, but he says that anything he does reminds him of women.

 

I will ask about food, too. Does food really have any bearing on that, though? That's surprising.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Isn't it the most difficult thing in the world, to find a hobby that you love so much that even obsession pales in comparison?

 

Oh, I think there are more difficult things.

 

Something that you would think of when you're not busy, like brushing your teeth, or going shopping. It's like replacing one obsesion with another, less harmful.

 

If it helps to think of it that way, sure. But a positive rather than a negative. Yes, you need to find something you are interested in. Something that draws you in. Something that excites your imagination, challenges you to be involved, but at the same time does not repel you at the slightest rock of the boat.

 

Chances are good it's already in your life, you just have to coax more of it out of you.

 

What do you think of when you're brushing your teeth and going to bed?

 

Anime.

 

There are many gaps, since many activities do not require high concentration.

 

Anime.

 

I personally find my thoughts wandering during most of day activities, since they can be done automatically.

 

Me too. And the thoughts wander to.... anime.

 

Moreover, doing them non-automatically with paying attention quickly becomes extremely boring, since you've been doing them for years and years.

 

Right. Sooooooo.... anime.

 

In my own experince only intense enough intellectual "work" can take off your mind from something.

 

Have YOU ever wondered about the force that must be generated by a singe being which would be capable of destroying an entire planet as depicted in such anime as dragonball z? Have you ever wondered the lengths to which one must go in order to replicate that energy? Has that thought ever prompted you to examine how fuel sources work, which leads you on to a 3 hour binge of wikipedia engineering articles, leading you somehow into subatomic particle theory????????

 

Yeah. That's much better than wasting your jing on internet porn.

 

Physical activities don't work like that, and all gaps are usually physical activities. But your mind has to think of something all the time.

 

Anime.... or atomic theory.

 

The problem is that when your obsession and your hobby fuse..... anime porn.... Whatever your friend does, he must NOT go down that hole. Especially if he is curious. Because there will be a whole hell lot of things to be curious about, click on, and never return from

 

No, he'll be turning 40 in a few years

 

You're never too old for anime.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Sloppy Zhang]

It's not physical obsession, no problem there, it's mental. My guess is that it's about curiosity, since he's never been with a woman (for spiritual reasons).

 

I think at 40 he's entitled to get some.... for spiritual reasons.... yeah.....

 

I didn't notice it before, but maybe he hid the obsession too well or I simply ignored it too well, as sex has never meant anything for me. No porn or whatever, but he says that anything he does reminds him of women.

 

Right, if that's the case, then I hate to break it to him, but he ain't being spiritual. He's PRETENDING to be spiritual. He has carefully lied to himself for years. I hate to potentially insult the meaning of your friend's very existence (because who know, those 40 years of virginity might be exactly what he needed to (not) have this lifetime), but if he's gone 40 years and not having sex for spiritual reasons, but he's STILL "obsessed" with sex, well, uh.... he's still stuck on the same obsession that 12 year old boys get as soon as they realize that girls aren't icky (well... maybe a little bit )

 

I will ask about food, too. Does food really have any bearing on that, though? That's surprising.

 

Some say it does for a lot of reasons. I'm not all TCM like, but it could affect the blood and the organs or whatever.

 

On a more esoteric sense, animals and heavy meats are associated with lower vibration, and base animal instincts (being that they are from.... animals). So if you have enough of them in your diet, it could be a weight that drags you down a few too many notches than you'd like.

 

But that's also the same reason that people who are getting too far "out there", and become spiritually ungrounded are encouraged to eat the heavier meats, do some intense physical exercise, and maybe something sexual. To bring you back down and ground you.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang