Some Info on Hu Yaozhen

[Brian]

Walker.....

Thank you for your time and effort for going over Master's Wu writings. I do not wish to waste anymore of your valuable time for arguments. I will reserve my comments and let the readers to decide either to believe all of that or just take it for granted. However, I will respond to those who have questions for me. Then, I will speak with an open mind. If you think my posts are misleading is only your honest opinion; and I thank you for that.

 

I would like you to answer the following question.

Can you just tell me what have you been accomplished, so far, from your school....???

 

 

BTW You did an excellent job on your translation......

I am not Walker and I do not have nearly the level of experience many others on the forum have but I will share with you a little of my personal experiences resulting from my exposure to and practice in the Stillness-Movement lineage.

 

I have learned, first and foremost, that it is my destiny to be a healer. I have also recently come to understand that teaching is included with that.

 

Without going into detail (a few of these have been documented elsewhere on the forum and the rest are currently not for public consumption), I will list a few of the healing opportunities I have been offered in the last couple years (in no particular order):

• Eight broken bones (two fibias, two tibias, a heel, a radius, an ulna and a skull fracture)
• A brain-bleed (and accompanying traumatic brain injury)
• Dozens of dog-bite punctures (same incident as the crushed radius and ulna)
• Ruptured Achilles tendon
• Coma-like unresponsive state (three separate events)
• Multiple pulmonary embolisms
• Strokes (three separate events)
• A "saddleback" embolism (lodged at crotch between right & left pulmonary arteries and massive enough to put pressure on the left atrium, causing a-fib)
• Outbreak of shingles (stopped in one day)
• Severed dewclaw (completely healed when checked by vet 14 hours later)
• Kennel-cough (my first healing was instantaneous and accidental, involving a single touch)
• Superior Mesenteric Artery syndrome (person avoided surgery, left Intensive Care Unit and started eating solid foods -- this case included a "guided" higher-level healing performed remotely and while in a meditative "shifted" state under the instruction of beings of light (ascended masters?))
• Helped 87-year-old woman cross over smoothly after sustaining her for five months in hospital bed w/ Foley catheter without infection or bed sore so that her children could make peace and let her go
• Severely arthritic thumb
• Dog with damaged/deteriorated spinal disc (before/after x-rays showed near-complete regeneration and dog is fully mobile with no signs of pain -- vet thinks her exercises and two acupuncture treatments did the trick...)
• Fibromyalgia (the nature of this ailment means ongoing treatments)
• High blood pressure
• Person with severe heart damage from sudden-death experience caused by ventricular fibrillation, resulting in Takotsubo cardiomyopathy and three progressively leaking valves
• Many "pain-relief" cases
• Several "back problems" (including two exacerbated by chiropractors)
• Headaches
• Badly sprained ankle (watched the swelling and discoloration disappear)
• Many leg cramps (when wife finally wakes me on verge of tears after trying "everything she could think of" for 30 to 45 minutes, it generally takes less than two minutes for them to be completely gone)
• Some "dreamtime" healings that I don't fully understand (I've recently started to do some dreamtime teaching, too)

I've also learned that doctors, nurses and hospice workers use the word "wonderful" a lot when faced with examples of energetic healing.

[thewhitetiger]

I can tell you my personal experiences as well.

I do not wish to recount for students or others who I have taught. Their experiences should be relayed by them alone.

 

I was afflicted with Childhood Fibromyalgia (A very sever case which I am in only .5% of the population deal with), scoliosis and chronic Myafacial syndrome.

I can live a fairly active life, caring for my parents, training twice a day and teaching 7 days a week despite dealing with these issues.

This does not also account for all the injuries I have received over the years, including crushing my T-11 while working.

Am I fully cured? No. I will be. If there is a specific timeline for success in being fully healed I do not know what that is. I am no longer interested in someone else's perception of how fast something should work. That is their issue.

 

I however have been working with others as well with great success. I do Field Healing on my Mother who has a Tumour on her Pituitary gland and I have volunteered for energy work at the Cross Cancer institute here in Edmonton.

An MRI from 2011 and another in 2012 had shown 60% shrinkage of her Tumour. Something the Doctors were baffled with. I remember when they were viewing the images in the Hospital. They were so amazed they had called in other surgeons to view it for themselves.

 

They had never, NEVER seen that happen before. Dr. Broad, My Moms Surgeon had 45 years experience up to that point.

 

Every couple of days I do Qigong in the room with my parents and work directly on my Mom.

So, I can honestly say it has made a significant positive changes in our lives.

 

EDIT: I did not account for all experiences, this is just a very very quick run down of the last 25 years. I did not include dream experiences or and "Unique" waking elements as well.

 

I should also note I have been a Practitioner of Flying Phoenix since 1994. I have been doing the Hunyuan and Yi Chuan for only a year, but with great success and I enjoy it immensely.

Edited January 12, 2015 by thewhitetiger

[Ya Mu]

Walker.....

Thank you for your time and effort for going over Master's Wu writings. I do not wish to waste anymore of your valuable time for arguments. I will reserve my comments and let the readers to decide either to believe all of that or just take it for granted. However, I will respond to those who have questions for me. Then, I will speak with an open mind. If you think my posts are misleading is only your honest opinion; and I thank you for that.

 

I would like you to answer the following question.

Can you just tell me what have you been accomplished, so far, from your school....???

 

 

 

 

 

CD,

Walker has shown you that your UMB is not "ultimate method of qigong" by giving you insight into one of the most highly developed qigong forms. Master Hu considered this method the culmination of his entire lifetime of learning the arts. Even if you read all the references, anything you have to say about it is pure speculation until you actually practice the methodology.

This form is not about breathing methods - say this 3000 times and maybe it will sink into your intellectual meanderings about qigong. The form is about energetics.

 

As far as "what has this accomplished?", I practice this form and have not had a major cold or flu in over 35 years. Although a few times when I was doing qi projection (ability gained through the practice) and not paying proper attention I have seen the virus fly off of others and felt it when it hit me (ability to SEE this comes from the practice) - this required me to sit for a bit and burn the virus out - I did not "come down" with it as I headed it off at the pass. Which brings about another aspect to Master Hu's methodology. By NOT paying attention to the breath, the efficiency of "subtle energies" (actually they become not so subtle) is very high in this system; it allows one to quickly develop to where they can manipulate Qi for healing others. There is no form of healing methodology which compares in efficiency to medical qigong. Basic pains can be eliminated in seconds by the practitioner. Also, gains in awareness where one can see the energetics, see the interactions between people, between a person and Heaven, and between all else. Also, any natural talent a person has will be emphasized and optimized through this practice.

 

Now, here is the problem; one actually has to practice to find these things out. No amount of talk will give a person understanding of these methods. No amount of attempting to compare it with other methods will give a person understanding. No amount of posting on these forums will give a person understanding. 10,000 years of thinking about it will accomplish nothing. PRACTICE - practicing the methodology will bring about that personal understanding.

[ChiDragon]

I would like you to answer the following question.

Can you just tell me what have you been accomplished, so far, from your school....???

 

Sorry, I did not make myself clear. By "accomplished", I meant what have you gain to your body physically from your self-cultivation. What I am getting at was I can claim one hundred things to accomplish something in one's practice. Perhaps there is one thing that did the trick but which one. Therefore, I cannot come to a conclusion by saying hey, one of the things that did the job without knowing which one.

 

I am only interested in the effect of a certain method with a good explanation. My concern here is more about learning some basic method to lead to a better health. I am not claiming that I am a master of some kind. I just want some good logical scientific reasoning if I can which make sense to a simple mind like me.

 

When people suggested a method, I would to like discuss in more detail. Instead I get lots of feedback by citing different sites without their understanding in their own words and personal attacks. Or saying hey it work. So, shut up, CD.

 

Finally, perhaps due to my ignorance, I am able to hear some people talking sense now.

Edited January 12, 2015 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

CD,

Walker has shown you that your UMB is not "ultimate method of qigong" by giving you insight into one of the most highly developed qigong forms.

 

Yes, I agree that walker has shown me the my UMB is not the "ultimate method of QiGong". Rather QiGong uses the UMB. Master Wu's writing of interest talked about nothing but breathing. Perhaps he has his own definition of UMB. He had not mention "energy" at all in his writing. I don't think people are interested what I have to say about his writing since he is a master in the subject. Everything he says would be law of QiGong. So to speak.

Edited January 12, 2015 by ChiDragon

[Brian]

I would like someone to explain jazz to me in concise scientific terms so that I can truly understand, appreciate and create excellent jazz without ever actually listening to jazz.

[ChiDragon]

This is very evasive.

[thewhitetiger]

Well, it is quite simple. Set up a time with someone to discuss it in length over the phone, or skype or go see them in person to learn the method.

If you are looking for specific results done in a controlled study, there have been quite a few in fact.

David Eisenberg, MD had written a book about his personal encounters with Chi Kung. "Encounters with Qi"

This book does have some very well detailed accounts and citations concerning the effectiveness, as well as a critical view of what is to be effective or not.

If you are skeptical of this then either learn it and debunk it for yourself or enjoy it's benefits.

If you want to offer what methods you enjoy and have been successful to you, put something together either in a video or a detailed explanation.

[Brian]

CD, the fact that you don't recognize that Master Hu is explicitly saying your structured breathing techniques have no place in, and are actually dangerous in, the high-level qigong/neigong system he developed as the culmination of all he learned from the Who's Who of energetic, healing and martial arts masters who were HIS teachers is, in my opinion, sheer stubbornness.

 

You have no interest in learning and practicing Stillness-Movement qigong, you appear to have no interest in learning about Stillness-Movement qigong from students of that system, yet you for years have jumped into every thread about the system as if you have innate expertise and knowledge of the system. Why is that?

[thewhitetiger]

I would like to simply add something here.

I have trained Qigong for 25 years. How can I speak for any of the 7000 other systems that exist? How could I compare their effectiveness to what I do without LEARNING and DOING it? I Cannot! No one can! We cannot speak for another type of art unless we do it ourselves.

The scope of Qigong is so large that I could not break it down to its basic roots of the Sien Tao or even older methods. Qigong has roots so old that we can only come to an understanding of how old it is by comparing the Native American Teachings to Asian and Siberian Arts do we see that what we ALL do, you, me, ALL of us who train in the energy arts have a common ancestry that can be 15,000 years old! (If not far far older)

When did certain energy arts become "The RIght Way" during that history? Who can say such a thing?

Each art has its methods, each is part of the Tao.

To learn what the Tao is (Something ineffable) one must experience it.

Is that not true?

Edited January 12, 2015 by thewhitetiger

[ChiDragon]

You have no interest in learning and practicing Stillness-Movement qigong, you appear to have no interest in learning about Stillness-Movement qigong from students of that system, yet you for years have jumped into every thread about the system as if you have innate expertise and knowledge of the system. Why is that?

 

Well, it is not that I was not interested. If not, then I wouldn't be here. I just want good explanations instead of hey it works.

 

The reason I jumped into every thread was because most people assumed what I don't really know but I want to pick their brains of what they know by their responses. To be honest, some of the responses weren't really very tasteful. Besides, some of the responses were so irrelevant and out of line. Most of the time, I don't get a direct answer but an evasive one.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2015 by ChiDragon

[thewhitetiger]

 

Well, it is not that I was not interested. If not I would be here. I just want good explanations instead of hey it works.

 

The reason I jumped into every thread was because most people assumed what I don't really know but I want to pick their brains of what they know by their responses. To be honest, some of the responses weren't really very tasteful. Besides, some of the responses were so irrelevant and out of line.

 

 

 

It maybe a reflection of how you asked or inserted yourself in this thread. Have been so busy looking for the reaction of others that you did not really look at yourself to see if the questions/Statements was appropriate or respectful, perhaps?

I wish that we could all communicate in a measured and mindful way. I do not know what you truly want to accomplish, but your methods are tiresome and unwelcome. I do not need someone to pick my brain in order to justify what their ego needs to fulfill some internal "Pat on the Back".

[ChiDragon]

..... I do not need someone to pick my brain in order to justify what their ego needs to fulfill some internal "Pat on the Back".

 

I know we don't "need someone to pick my brain"; but please don't forget every response that you'd made is the revelation of what is in your mind or being picked on. If one follows your tracks, then, one will find out your personality, unless, you don't respond at all.

Edited January 12, 2015 by ChiDragon

[Ya Mu]

...Rather QiGong uses the UMB. Master Wu's writing of interest talked about nothing but breathing. Perhaps he has his own definition of UMB. He had not mention "energy" at all in his writing. I don't think people are interested what I have to say about his writing since he is a master in the subject. Everything he says would be law of QiGong. So to speak.

Bold mine; statement is not true for Stillness-Movement qigong.

And this is what we have been trying to tell you; this is not true for this method of qigong. But apparently you are incapable of understanding that a qigong form can be based on pure energetics instead of breathing methods.

Walker went to the trouble of pointing out to you that the rest of your statement is not true by giving you several examples that point out the fallacy of breath control with these particular methods. It is like you totally glossed over his effort to give you information. And yes, Master Hu WAS one of the few responsible for coining the term "qigong".

[ChiDragon]

I'll not go into the matter who is right or wrong. I am only interested what the words say. First, I thought walker did all the translation; but now I've realized that his translations are only in the brackets.

I will do my own translation below:

呼吸：一般的气功，在谈到练功方法时，主要是谈呼吸法。如自然呼吸、潜呼吸、调息、喉头呼吸、内呼吸、生理呼吸、吐纳法等等。这些方法，一般是提倡 口鼻呼吸并配合一定的要求，是有意的、人为的呼吸法，我们称之为后天呼吸。如能经常练之，当可收医疗保健之效。

Breathing: In most Chi Kung, when they were talking about the practicing method is mainly about the breathing methods: such as natural breathing(自然呼吸), 潜呼吸(?), regulating the breath(调息), larynx breathing (喉头呼吸), internal breathing(内呼吸)、physiological breathing(生理呼吸)、tu-na(吐纳法), etc.. These methods, they are mostly advocated(提倡) using the combination of the mouth and nose to breathe in coordinate with a specific requirement. It was done intentionally and artificially. We called these postnatal breathing. If they were practiced all the time, of course, they may have the efficacy of medical healing and maintain one's heath.

本气功的呼吸法与一般的气功的呼吸法不同， 是先天呼吸。是不以人为方法调整口鼻呼吸和腹式呼吸，而是在入静时，将口轻闭，舌头自然伸平，鼻子的呼吸以意封闭。呼吸的部位，是在守窍。这种先天呼吸的 特点是窍呼吸。所谓以意封闭，不是真的闭住气不呼吸，而是把呼吸忘掉，根本不想它，使之真正成为自然的呼吸，以避免由于呼吸不自然而发生任何毛病。

The breathing method of this Chi Kung(Wu's method) and the most Chi Kung methods are different. It is the prenatal breathing. It does not depend on the intentional method to regulate the nasal-oral breathing nor the abdominal breathing. Rather, it was done during the entry at a static state of complete quietness(or stillness). Close the mouth lightly, then the tongue will spread even spontaneously. Mentally, stop the nasal breathing. The location of breathing is focused on the passages of the nostrils. The characteristic of this kind of prenatal breathing is called orifice breathing. The so called "mentally, stop the nasal breathing". As what it says, stop it mentally rather than physically. Literally means, forget about the breathing itself. Originally, don't even think about it. Hence, let it truly be the natural breathing. It may prevent any illnesses due to the unnatural breathing which might occur.


Notes:
1. 潜呼吸 It is more appropriate to translate it as submerge breathing(breathing under water).

Based on Master Wu's writing, the definition of 靜動氣功(Stillness-Movement QiGong), what he meant by:
1. 靜(Static or Stillness) is the entry at the static state of complete quietness(or stillness).
2. 動(Dynamic or Movement) is the movement of natural breathing.

Edited January 12, 2015 by ChiDragon

[Ya Mu]

I'll not go into the matter who is right or wrong. I am only interested what the words say. First, I thought walker did all the translation; but now I've realized that his translations are only in the brackets.

 

I will do my own translation below:

 

Breathing: In most Chi Kung, when they were talking about the practicing method is mainly about the breathing methods: such as natural breathing(自然呼吸), 潜呼吸(?), regulating the breath(调息), larynx breathing (喉头呼吸), internal breathing(内呼吸)、physiological breathing(生理呼吸)、tu-na(吐纳法), etc.. These methods, they are mostly advocated(提倡) using the combination of the mouth and nose to breathe in coordinate with a specific requirement. It was done intentionally and artificially. We called these postnatal breathing. If they were practiced all the time, of course, they may have the efficacy of medical healing and maintain one's heath.

 

 

 

The breathing method of this Chi Kung(Wu's method) and the most Chi Kung methods are different. It is the prenatal breathing. It does not depend on the intentional method to regulate the nasal-oral breathing nor the abdominal breathing. Rather, it was done during the entry at a static state of complete quietness(or stillness). Close the mouth lightly, then the tongue will spread even spontaneously. Mentally, stop the nasal breathing. The location of breathing is focused on the passages of the nostrils. The characteristic of this kind of prenatal breathing is called orifice breathing. The so called "mentally, stop the nasal breathing". As what it says, stop it mentally rather than physically. Literally means, forget about the breathing itself. Originally, don't even think about it. Hence, let it truly be the natural breathing. It may prevent any illnesses due to the unnatural breathing which might occur.

 

 

Notes:

1. 潜呼吸 It is more appropriate to translate it as submerge breathing(breathing under water).

 

Based on Master Wu's writing, the definition of 靜動氣功(Stillness-Movement QiGong), what he meant by:

1. 靜(Static or Stillness) is the entry at the static state of complete quietness(or stillness).

2. 動(Dynamic or Movement) is the movement of natural breathing.

"2. 動(Dynamic or Movement) is the movement of natural breathing."

Wrong wrong wrong!!!

Your insistence that it is tied to breath is not correct. Your conclusion is based on your own idea that all qigong is based on breath. You have been told, over and over, by various practitioners of this system that you are wrong. Please quit putting this mis-information about what Stillness-Movement is based on your uneducated viewpoint of attempting to intellectualize and translate based on your KNOWING (false knowledge) that qigong is breath or breath control. It is not. You are totally out of your depth. If you really wish to understand it please come to one of my classes and I will teach it to you. Or go to China and attempt to find someone there to teach it to you. But please quit this speculation you are doing by attempting to put your own slant on something the writings barely touch on. You are attempting to put literal meanings on something that goes beyond that literal academic translation and when you add your own misconception as to what qigong actually is, then your conclusion is oh so far from the truth.

[ChiDragon]

Okay.....
I will stop here.

[Walker]

Yeah, STOP! And don't start back up! Please!

I _did_ translate everything. ChiDrag's retranslation is an atrocious, confusing mess that reads like the instruction manual for a cheap digital watch bought in the 80s. His name ain't even Wu, it's HU!!!

It's about time somebody says it:

{ Insulting comments removed by Admin as thread is now locked/closed}

I only pray that those with the sincere wish to study Stillness Movement, Daoist xing-ming cultivation, and other topics this poor, delusional fellow will eternally lift his leg on will not be sidetracked. It would be nice if the mods could do something. How many posts have to degrade like this?

Already bracing myself for his fusillade of responses. ChiDragon apparently lives on his computer. Sighhhhhhh, 我的妈呀.

[ChiDragon]

Walker.....
Sorry, my translation had disappointed you. I am glad that you didn't like it. To be honest with you, I had done my best to do an unbiased translation to reflect what the article says. btw I don't think my Chinese is that bad and deserve such strong remarks from you. However, even though I did the translation but I did not like it anymore than you do. It is because I believe that is not what Chi Kung is all about neither.

Edited January 13, 2015 by ChiDragon

[Chang]

Yeah, STOP! And don't start back up! Please!

 

I _did_ translate everything. ChiDrag's retranslation is an atrocious, confusing mess that reads like the instruction manual for a cheap digital watch bought in the 80s. His name ain't even Wu, it's HU!!!

 

It's about time somebody says it:

 

{ Insulting comments removed by Admin as thread is now locked/closed}

 

I only pray that those with the sincere wish to study Stillness Movement, Daoist xing-ming cultivation, and other topics this poor, delusional fellow will eternally lift his leg on will not be sidetracked. It would be nice if the mods could do something. How many posts have to degrade like this?

 

Already bracing myself for his fusillade of responses. ChiDragon apparently lives on his computer. Sighhhhhhh, 我的妈呀.

 

Moderation Message

On this forum I believe that we can disagree with one another without resorting to insults.

Walker. You may well wish to edit your post so as to make it more acceptable and should refrain from using an insulting style of posting in future.

[dawei]

It is because I believe that is not what Chi Kung is all about neither.

 

~~~ ADMIN WARNING ~~~

 

Enough is enough. This simply continues to degrade an extraordinaire man and system and now say it is not even Qigong.

 

You clearly continue to be frustrated with members here, disregarding their direct experience and knowledge simply incites folks towards rebuttal after rebuttal and makes them frustrated in turn. This borders trolling and baiting from an elitist point of view.

 

Look at the history: Elitism never lasts here as it eventually falls on its own sword.

 

It is time for you to take a deep look if this is the website you want to try and continue interjection yourself into topics you have no experience of and continue mis-information after being corrected several times. this won't be tolerated for much longer.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[freeform]

I think people's frustration, CD, is with the fact that if you opened yourself up for experiencing what people are talking about, then you'd 'get it' - and everyone really wants you to get it!

 

It's frustrating for you because it makes no intellectual sense what everyone in this (and similar systems) are talking about. And unfortunately the intellectual part of you is not so well equipped to get it. Just like the post about trying to intellectualise Jazz - whatever comes out will be a pale, lifeless collection of words - which is just selling you short.

 

It does seem you're willing to be sold short. So with that caveat, I'll try to explain in a (semi) scientific way what everyone is trying to tell you.

 

Since its a western scientific explanation, then think of qi as the flow of information nothing more... Now - when you make a conscious, directed effort at anything (including breathing, or even just reaching out for a cup) you're engaging a certain part of your information processing capacity (let's call it 'mind').

 

This 'mind' is, in fact, the least powerful part of your information processing circuitry - although it is the most visible and obvious, so it does tend to get the most attention. It's the part of you that is capable of processing around 7 + or - 2 bits of information at a time. It's significantly limited, but again - because it's the most obvious, visible part of you, it seems like it's the most important, most powerful part. When you engage this circuitry to make decisions on everything from how you move your body, to how you regulate your breathing your results will be severely limited - because as I said it's only capable of processing around 7 bits of information at a time.

 

There is another circuit - it's a lot less visible, mainly because it processes so much information, so quickly, that the part of you that is aware cannot keep up with it. It's just too much stuff too fast - so it becomes impossible to track. This part of you is like a vast supercomputer compared to the digital watch power of your mind. It's not only a supercomputer in itself, it's also connected to a limitless number of other supercomputers - and it's constantly processes information instantaneously!

 

What practices like Stillness Movement do is they plug into that second level of circuitry. They connect with it, and they let that part of them lead their cultivation practice. This means the decisions made - in how you move your arm, in how you breathe or in how you stand come from a source infinitely more powerful than the mind circuitry. The result is that the mind watches you doing all these unusual 'spontaneous' actions in complete bewilderment. It can't make sense of them (it's not equipped for that) but it really wants to!

 

The key in these sort of practices is to let the mind circuitry just watch, but not control or interfere in any way. If it starts to - for example - want to breathe a certain way, because it's only capable of processing a small amount of information, it would not be doing the exact right thing at the exact right time, which in turn means pretty substandard results.

 

Any action that is contrived by the mind will be extremely limited as it simply can't match the processing power of a limitless number of supercomputers connected in a network. However it will always think that it's more powerful, more important and more capable than it really is (since its the most visible, loud and obvious part of you) So the trap is that it can easily contrive your thoughts and your actions to support its claim as the most powerful, most important part of you. Don't fall into that trap

Edited January 14, 2015 by freeform

[Cookie Monster]

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Edited May 4, 2021 by Ocean Form

[cheya]

Freeform, if I could like your post SIX times, I would!

Much appreciation for your big-hearted, wise, and well-considered offering.

 

Edited January 14, 2015 by cheya

[freeform]

Thank you - I'm glad my clumsy mumblings made sense. I hope they make some sort of sense to CD too - if I can clarify anything any further, just let me know and I'll try my best.