Stretching and Mobility

[Mal]

I'm interested in what fellow 'bums practice as a stretching /joint mobility / range of motion routine. I think I need to add a focus on increasing flexibility into my Tai Chi and Kung fu regime.

 

While I do have a 10 min "top to toe" mobilization and stretching routine for kung fu, I don't do it everyday and I'm wondering if anyone is using something more effective since I'm not very flexible and have has some back issues and being more flex able would definitely help.

[NeiChuan]

When you stretch for 30 seconds. Only be inhaling, and hold your stretch. Exhale when you're done.

 

Work your way up to 30 seconds, and drink a good amount of water.

[Mahberry]

I've been doing this every morning for the past month. Very stretchy movements and seems to relieve my tight muscles and sluggishness in the morning.

I push a little bit more forcefully on the extension part of the movement because it feels so damn good.

[idquest]

Feldenkrais works for me on a more subtle level. You can find a huge selection of audio lessons here:

http://openatm.org/

It could be boring for younger guys, but for older ones and those who have any kind of pain/tension this could be a find.

[cheya]

Hi Mal,
Check out Resistance Stretching with Dara Torres. She's the forty-year-old swimmer who did so surprisingly well in the olympics, and credits it largely to this resistance stretching she learned from Bob Cooley. I've tried it and am really impressed, especially at how fast it can increase range of motion. It's been practically miraculous with some of my massage clients.
She has a book and DVD. I've only seen the DVD. The method works on strength and flexibility at the same time. You hold resistance through the full range of the stretching movement in both directions. It also seems to stabilize joints: because you maintain resistance to the stretch, it doesn't just target the weakest link, which is often already over-stretched. Her DVD is really good, it has a lot of verbal repetition as they go through the different exercises, but it's like a drill. You really get it!

Bob Cooley has a book too, with a lot of extraneous (maybe) info on the correlation between personality types and meridian function with stiffness or limited range of motion in different areas of the body. He ends up pretty much using variations of yoga poses.

Resistance stretching is certainly the most effective ROM work I've come across so far.

 

[Eric23]

Yin Yoga, a link in on my sig line. It works connective tissue that does not respond to traditional stretching (which is good for muscle tissue). I've found it very beneficial, and the long holding times of the postures allows for a nice opportunity to still the mind. Depending on the posture, you can also practice pranayama breathing. You do need to add some more dynamic yang postures into the routine to work the muscles and bring a sense of balance. Here in Phoenix, more and more yoga studios are adding a Yin class to their schedules.

 

I do 30-60 minutes almost every morning and it's a very nice way to begin a day, this includes some singing bowl time and a nice OM benediction.

[lifeforce]

 

I've been doing this every morning for the past month. Very stretchy movements and seems to relieve my tight muscles and sluggishness in the morning.

 

I push a little bit more forcefully on the extension part of the movement because it feels so damn good.

 

Nice video. I intend to add some Shaolin style qigong to my practice. This looks like a good set to learn.

Thanks

[adept]

Nice video. I intend to add some Shaolin style qigong to my practice. This looks like a good set to learn.

Thanks

 

Here is something that may interest you lifeforce. My link

[Mahberry]

Feldenkrais works for me on a more subtle level. You can find a huge selection of audio lessons here:

http://openatm.org/

It could be boring for younger guys, but for older ones and those who have any kind of pain/tension this could be a find.

Wow, very interesting. Thanks.

[Otis]

Stretch is one of my main practices.

 

In many ways, stretch and dance are just different points on a continuum, but in a way, they are mirror practices for me. Dance is about allowing the ease and effortless pathways of the body to lead my movement. Stretch also has that quality, but is specifically about listening to, and being led by discomfort.

 

The only stretch that really makes sense to me, is a spontaneous one, one that is based upon how my body feels, right now, as opposed to some concept, of where it's supposed to go to. Stretching is an entirely internal art, and outward appearances are inherently misleading.

 

An anatomy book reveals that each muscle is composed of a bundle of fibers, none of which share the exact same orientation. The fibers complement each other, so that a full and subtle range of movement is available. Therefore, to stretch one muscle means to stretch in many slightly different ways. Also, each muscle is balanced by other muscles in the body, so the stretch is not just about opening up tissue, but also regaining internal balance. These aren't things that technique can fully cover, but can only be felt into. I do think, however, that technique can be very useful in illuminating pathways that the body may not find on its own, as long as the technique is not religiously followed. Technique is always based on someone else's body.

 

Also, there are many natural pathways that involve and span the entire body (e.g. asanas or break-dancing "freezes"), which only make sense, once they've been discovered from the interior. Yoga technique may point in the right direction, but IME asanas should not be forced into, because the shape is not what matters, but rather the interior communication, ease and flow of the dynamics. The shape is the appearance, but it is sensation (particularly pain/tension), which steers the body into its native possibilities. Coming up with a "right", either in yoga or break-dancing, only serves to eclipse all the other unexplored possibilities.

 

It is crazy how much our society feeds only a couple of body postures: mostly sitting, standing and lying down. The rest of the body's built-in vocabulary is lost, through the ossification of these main postures. (Repetitive work, of course, creates its own specific shapes, as well as its own specific syndromes). Freedom can only be found, IME, by surrendering the idea of "right", by learning to listen fully to the body, by being very curious and joyful in exploration, and by allowing the body to find its own pathways of stretch.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I'm interested in what fellow 'bums practice as a stretching /joint mobility / range of motion routine. I think I need to add a focus on increasing flexibility into my Tai Chi and Kung fu regime.

 

While I do have a 10 min "top to toe" mobilization and stretching routine for kung fu, I don't do it everyday and I'm wondering if anyone is using something more effective since I'm not very flexible and have has some back issues and being more flex able would definitely help.

 

I had a bout with a serious back issue where I could barely walk to the bathroom. Eventually I went to see a really good massage therapist who, in one session, balanced out the muscle tension on the left and right sides of my lower back. He showed me 2 stretches to do and I have never had to go back. Any time I feel the pain coming back I do the stretches and it goes away.

 

Stretch one: fetal position lying on your back, pull the knees into the chest for 30 seconds.

Stretch two: grab door frame at waist height with one hand, palm facing out, lean back and down a bit to pull on the lower waist. Switch sides.

 

I did these twice a day to start, and it keeps the muscles from pulling everything out of line when one side gets tighter.

[Mal]

[Harmonious Emptiness]

[Otis]

[寒月 Hanyue]

Hi Mal

 

There are yin and yang approaches to this, so it really depends upon why YOUR body is lacking ROM in its joints and why certain tissues in your body are 'tight'.

 

IMO learning to appreciate both the yin and the yang is best, and they can be most easily summarised as;

 

yin: somatic re-education. Internal-external (releasing open the tissues/joints through releasing the nerves).

yang: somatic conditioning. External-internal (engaging the soft tissues to change their 'condition'(ie elasticity/plasticity)).

 

The yin is primarly concerned with the efficiency of the nervous system, and uses the soft tissues to engage with the CNS. The yang is primarily concerned with the condition of the soft tissues and uses the nervous system to transform that condition.

 

Cooley's resistance stretching as well as the Russian sports science approach to stretching is yang. Feldenkrais, Hanna somatics, is yin. In reality it is not so much what is done as it is how it is done. Simplistically here the yang says "you must strengthen the muscles to improve flexibility because the body needs the security to allow that ROM", while the yin says "move gently and slowly and improve the efficiency of the firing of the muscles and the control of movement and the nerves will relax and allow greater freedom".

 

Taken to a full conclusion both can end up at the same place, though most do not go that far. The main difference here is that "stretching" does not educate the synergistic aspects of the tissues in movement. It really is a supplementary form of training that should be prescriptive, and designed to aid deficiencies that are found within a movement pattern. Movement patterns should always come first. And it should be noted there are MANY ways to "stretch" even if the positions seen are the same.

 

Always be aware of how you are patterning the sensory-motor system to function, so if you goal is taiji is your supplementary training trying to educate your nervous system to function in a different way? If it is you are fighting yourself in your own training.

 

Qigong, taiji, neigong forms can all be done in both ways, either releasing open the tissues/joints/cavities etc or engaging them more actively to condition the body. If these are what you want to learn, my advice is to learn to use them to work with the body in the ways you need them to, anything else is supplementary at best.

 

My two penneth,

 

Best,

 

P.S I am a fan of western somatic education approaches and the somatic conditioning approaches of the Russians. Interestingly though I started using these to inform my Chinese practices, as I dove further and met better teachers I found the Chinese practices do all of this and more. It is just not always so easy to see or find.

 

I prefer movement over 'static' methods, though static methods can have their place.

[cheya]

[Otis]

Hi Mal

 

There are yin and yang approaches to this, so it really depends upon why YOUR body is lacking ROM in its joints and why certain tissues in your body are 'tight'.

 

IMO learning to appreciate both the yin and the yang is best, and they can be most easily summarised as;

 

yin: somatic re-education. Internal-external (releasing open the tissues/joints through releasing the nerves).

yang: somatic conditioning. External-internal (engaging the soft tissues to change their 'condition'(ie elasticity/plasticity)).

 

The yin is primarly concerned with the efficiency of the nervous system, and uses the soft tissues to engage with the CNS. The yang is primarily concerned with the condition of the soft tissues and uses the nervous system to transform that condition.

 

Cooley's resistance stretching as well as the Russian sports science approach to stretching is yang. Feldenkrais, Hanna somatics, is yin. In reality it is not so much what is done as it is how it is done. Simplistically here the yang says "you must strengthen the muscles to improve flexibility because the body needs the security to allow that ROM", while the yin says "move gently and slowly and improve the efficiency of the firing of the muscles and the control of movement and the nerves will relax and allow greater freedom".

 

Taken to a full conclusion both can end up at the same place, though most do not go that far. The main difference here is that "stretching" does not educate the synergistic aspects of the tissues in movement. It really is a supplementary form of training that should be prescriptive, and designed to aid deficiencies that are found within a movement pattern. Movement patterns should always come first. And it should be noted there are MANY ways to "stretch" even if the positions seen are the same.

 

Always be aware of how you are patterning the sensory-motor system to function, so if you goal is taiji is your supplementary training trying to educate your nervous system to function in a different way? If it is you are fighting yourself in your own training.

 

Qigong, taiji, neigong forms can all be done in both ways, either releasing open the tissues/joints/cavities etc or engaging them more actively to condition the body. If these are what you want to learn, my advice is to learn to use them to work with the body in the ways you need them to, anything else is supplementary at best.

Excellent!

[寒月 Hanyue]

Excellent!

 

Thank you for your kind word(s) Otis, they are appreciated.

 

Best,

[Otis]

Thank you for your kind word(s) Otis, they are appreciated.

Sure!

 

Actually, I wrote that for the sake of others, so that hopefully they'll take a deeper look at what you wrote, because there's so much useful goodness in there!

[joeblast]

the money shelled out to learn xing shen zhuang has already paid for itself a hundredfold

 

although I open and close more than what the form dictates, daily, often.

[sifusufi]

I have the vision to be able to pull this off someday...

 

 

 

In the positive realm now... I WILL BE ABLE TO DO THIS!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sifusufi]

Stellar topic, stellar replies!!!

 

Thank you everybody

 

[al.]

Hiya

 

If you like taichi I highly recommend the softening exercises developed my Yeung Ma Lee. Fantastic!

 

a

[Mal]

I have not heard of Yeung Ma Lee, will have to investigate

 

the money shelled out to learn xing shen zhuang has already paid for itself a hundredfold

 

That's the one I remember you and Trunk recommending, my inability to spell made it too hard to find

[Mal]

It seems I'm being pushed towards xing shen zhuang

 

I tried several of my favourite online suppliers to find Resistance Stretching with Dara Torres, no luck so I eventually decided Id have to go with Amazon. Fortunately at the last moment I saw region 1 DVD (which explains why I couldnt find it elsewhere) While I use to use a region free DVD player I no longer have it connected, so Id have to stuff around for a bit to stream it to the TV.

 

While searching Id also noticed it was an App on iTunes. My phone is about 10 years old, but I though Id give that a go on the computer. But I rarely use iTunes so I had to update the software, by the time I got that done, turns out I needed my partners password (as I dont have an account) and she was asleep.

 

So no Resistance Stretching with Dara Torres for me, Ill probably eventually try out the itunes one as its cheap.

 

Then I though Id try out Gift of Tao movement, but that DVD decided to hide itself somewhere

 

So it seems the way to go might be xing shen zhuang

 

Out of interest, my range of movement is increasing while my back pain is subsiding, so Tai Chi is helping. Along with that one massage session, Tai Chi is how I got relief from back pain earlier this year. It seems that Tai Chi isnt enough for maintenance for me, otherwise I wouldnt be running into these issues, but it is able to help heal me.

 

It's not like I require an unusual range of motion for my kung fu so I've never had a lot of motivation to stretch and I'd always prefered to spend any "free" time doing Tai Chi rather than floor exercises. I should probably look into finding a good massage too.