Sleeping surface and the health of your back

[Taomeow]

Trying to start a revolution in bed.

[Desert Eagle]

I fold a cotton duvet to act as padding between me and the floor, I cannot fully rest unless I use it. Any spring or foam mattresses force micro adjustments and constant balancing in the muscles so they don't really rest and you wake up lazy and not fully rested.

[C T]

Trying to start a revolution in bed.

Good luck! I think any sort of Revolution is wonderful. Nothing unclutters more effectively than radical lifestyle shifts.

 

My choice of sleeping surface varies according to demands. Never have a problem falling asleep, no matter the surface. On couches, on rocks, on garden swings, even sitting upright sometimes...

 

Had a short bout of back ache recently when i pulled a muscle. Excruciatingly painful and immobilizing. Combination of massage, both physical and sound, sporadically light stretching with the addition of sleeping on a light duvet thrown on the carpeted floor sorted the issue within a week.

[ShaktiMama]

Trying to start a revolution in bed.

 

 

 

My choice isnt there.

 

http://www.tempurpedic.com/TEMPUR-HD-Collection/TEMPUR-HD-Collection.asp

 

but being frugal I bought a topper off overstock.com for $120.00 instead of paying 3-4k for it.

 

the best thing I have ever done for my back...

 

that and chi gung and massage is what keeps my back healthy

 

i like taking a nap on the water too. not a water bed but an actual lake or ocean.

 

i sleep on it with a cotton duvet between me and the surface.

 

you should have asked us what we wear and don't wear when we sleep in the poll too.

[Otis]

I've had chronic back pain and frequent spasms, my whole life. My mom first took me to the doctor for it, when I was ten.

 

Only in my early 30s did I start to find insight into my back, and began the unwinding, leading to the various stretch and dance practices I've talked about here.

 

One thing that has led me to, is appreciating a very firm, thin futon. My body doesn't want to be pampered, so much as it wants to feel its own tension, so it can surrender it.

 

And yes, ShaktiMama, I sleep in the nude, because clothes add too much information. My body wants to be able to feel itself, without too much interference from super-band waist-bands, and other signals. Before I had roommates, I spent almost all my time in my apartment, nude, for the same reason. (Plus, all my clothes are loose, and I go dancing in pajamas).

[mYTHmAKER]

My choice isnt there.

 

http://www.tempurped...-Collection.asp

 

but being frugal I bought a topper off overstock.com for $120.00 instead of paying 3-4k for it.

 

the best thing I have ever done for my back...

 

that and chi gung and massage is what keeps my back healthy

 

i like taking a nap on the water too. not a water bed but an actual lake or ocean.

 

i sleep on it with a cotton duvet between me and the surface.

 

you should have asked us what we wear and don't wear when we sleep in the poll too.

 

Had a tempurpedic mattress and gave it away. The mattress gives into your body weight so if yo use your arms to push to roll over your arm sinks and there is nothing to push against. It was not giving me good support.

The topper is better as you meet resistance because not too thick.

[mYTHmAKER]

I sleep on a hard foam mattress which is directly on the floor.

I also have a wool pad on top of the foam to soften it.

 

I had a herniated disc many years ago and wound up with surgery.

I do have recurring problems from time to time

 

If my back goes out i shift to the floor which is carpeted - put a folded blanket on top of the carpet.

[mYTHmAKER]

Trying to start a revolution in bed.

 

What do you sleep on

[宁]

When i have periods of exhaustion due to prolongued work hours and accumulated sleeplessness, i usually sleep on the floor, i live close to the ground. It's always refreshing, in the summer i can't sleep in any bed but on the floor, covered by a very thin blankie.

[Taomeow]

What do you sleep on

 

On a revolution.

 

It all started last summer in China. I was surprised and even shocked by the hardness of the mattress in the apartment our friends found for us there, in an ordinary middle-class neighborhood (Chinese middle class living accommodations differ from American or European ones quite significantly in terms of "modern conveniences," but look increasingly similar in terms of furniture). I have always chosen the firmest mattress I could find, but the Chinese one was way firmer, and in a couple of days, when I got used to it, I realized it was the most comfortable ever. Then at one point a local massage therapist told me, "you should sleep on a firmer surface."

 

When I came back home, I came to hate my mattress. The feeling was, distinctly, of qi leaking out of my lower back, leached out by the sagging surface. So I started shopping for a new one, a really firm one like the one in China. I looked everywhere and tried everything, and finally was told by a retailer of supposedly the firmest (and priced like a luxury car, almost) mattresses that were still too saggy that I would not find anything firmer in this country because it simply does not exist. This is it. So then I started designing a perfect bed in my lower back's mind.

 

Sleeping on the floor was the idea turned down for feng shui considerations (it is thought of as conductive to an unconscious sense of being unprotected in FS, and therefore discouraged). I tried European platform beds, imagining a solid board for the foundation, but couldn't find one -- all the ones I saw had planks OR were priced like a luxury car. So I finally had a thick plywood board cut to size at Home Depot and installed it on my planked futon frame ($40 with delivery), and put a down mattress topper on top ($80 at Target), and started sleeping on that. The first couple of nights my muscles complained -- not used to the hardness -- but the bones went, "yeah! That's what I'm talking about!" The third night, the muscles didn't complain anymore either, and I started waking up with a feeling of qi having flown IN into my lower back instead of out, of being recharged and realigned and all-around "right." My back feels the same after just sleeping on that board as after an hour of yoga or a stretching routine.

 

So I came to realize that this may explain why Asians, en masse, have better postures than Westerners -- they still seem to be partial to hard sleeping surfaces (one mattress salesmen, when I related the story of my China mattress, tried to sell me something asserting that "all his Asian customers buy this one." Maybe, when they're living in the US -- for there's nothing firmer in existence -- but apparently when there is, they know better.) So then I came to realize, also, that we are placed on sagging mattresses (advertized as the latest orthopedic accomplishment of course) since childhood and most people don't know any better because they have never been exposed to any better for as long as they lived. So then I realized that these soft mattresses may be the single most reliable way for pharmaceutical companies making billions of dollars off painkillers to keep getting their sore-back-related profits (with a cut for chiropractors, back surgeons, etc.), this training of a whole culture to sleep on surfaces that destroy the health of its members' backs on a mass scale. So then I realized that by telling people about this I might start a revolution.

 

But first I wanted to find out if my personal sense of health and qi being leached out of the lower back by a sagging mattress and replenished by a firm sleeping surface resonates with anyone else... hence the poll.

[growant]

Having never owned a futon, I'm having trouble envisioning this- how about a pic of it

[mYTHmAKER]

 

Sleeping on the floor was the idea turned down for feng shui considerations (it is thought of as conductive to an unconscious sense of being unprotected in FS, and therefore discouraged).

 

Actually my mattress on the floor is on a raised carpeted platform much larger than the mattress itself.

It's designed like a desert tent and the way it's laid out we feel secure.

Also we can't fall out of bed

[Mal]

Is it going to help if I select Serious debilitating problems?

 

I sleep on a futon mattress on slats that raise it off the floor like this

Have never "owned" one of those "real beds" and I find them very uncomfortable when staying in motels etc.

 

But sometimes I wonder if the slats cause issues they can spread apart to leave a larger gap, usually right under me ass

 

Fortunately as a child my parents had an old door under the foam mattress of my single bed, so it was always firm.

[goldisheavy]

Is it going to help if I select Serious debilitating problems?

 

I sleep on a futon mattress on slats that raise it off the floor like this

Have never "owned" one of those "real beds" and I find them very uncomfortable when staying in motels etc.

 

But sometimes I wonder if the slats cause issues they can spread apart to leave a larger gap, usually right under me ass

 

Fortunately as a child my parents had an old door under the foam mattress of my single bed, so it was always firm.

 

This thing looks nice. If the slats bend, I wonder if maybe they should simply be thicker? I think the design is a good one overall if the slats are made thick and sturdy enough. But otherwise why not just cover the top with a piece of plywood? It's not going to be as good looking as the slats, but it won't bend easily. Just thinking out loud.

[C T]

Has anyone tried out memory foam mattresses? The same kind of material used by astronauts?

http://memoryfoammattressreview.storeblogs.com/tag/astronauts

 

Word of advice: If anyone is thinking of getting one, please make sure its premium grade.

 

It might have been in the US market for a while already, but it wasn't until early last year that people here succumbed to an onslaught of sales campaigns promoting the product, and the market was flooded with all the variations and grades available under the sun, from pillows to mattresses to insoles for shoes!!!

 

I got a mattress when the ads first appeared, (they claimed 'revolutionary' status ) but it must have been a low graded one cos it only retained its default flatness for about 6 months before losing its efficacy. After that it just didn't feel right anymore - brought it back to the store, but they would not give me a refund, so i 'donated' it to the salesman who sold it to us.

 

My own naivete to blame.

Edited July 20, 2011 by CowTao

[mYTHmAKER]

Has anyone tried out memory foam mattresses? The same kind of material used by astronauts?

http://memoryfoammat.../tag/astronauts

 

Word of advice: If anyone is thinking of getting one, please make sure its premium grade.

 

It might have been in the US market for a while already, but it wasn't until early last year that people here succumbed to an onslaught of sales campaigns promoting the product, and the market was flooded with all the variations and grades available under the sun, from pillows to mattresses to insoles for shoes!!!

 

I got a mattress when the ads first appeared, (they claimed 'revolutionary' status ) but it must have been a low graded one cos it only retained its default flatness for about 6 months before losing its efficacy. After that it just didn't feel right anymore - brought it back to the store, but they would not give me a refund, so i 'donated' it to the salesman who sold it to us.

 

My own naivete to blame.

 

If it is similiar to a Tempurpedic IMHO it is no good.

Had a Tempurpedic mattress and gave it away. The mattress gives into your body weight so if yo use your arms to push to roll over your arm sinks and there is nothing to push against. It was not giving me good support.

It's like quicksand.

[candide]

How about sleeping in hammocks?

[cheya]

Twenty years ago I was given an "old" latex mattress by a friend. It is STILL firm and comfortable! Real latex is pricey, but if it lasts that long, it might be worth it. This one is pretty firm and I have it on a 3/4" plywood platform, well-supported so it doesn't sag. I still love it!

 

The best mattress I ever slept on was two 4" thicknesses of cocopalm, on the floor, in India. Too big to bring back to the states, but it was even better than the latex, if such a thing is possible.

[Taomeow]

How about sleeping in hammocks?

 

Long ago, far away. It was perfect. I was only 7 or 8 though and didn't even know I had a back.

 

The best mattress I ever slept on was two 4" thicknesses of cocopalm, on the floor, in India. Too big to bring back to the states, but it was even better than the latex, if such a thing is possible.

 

I totally believe it. I had my comfiest sleep on the floor of a tent with a pile of straw stuffed underneath -- or, on occasion, dry clover, so fragrant it transports all your senses to paradise. Sleeping on plants fashioned into a support surface is in a class of its own.

 

One of the problems with spring mattresses, aside from everything else, is energetic -- you sleep on Metal overexposing yourself to the Metal phase of qi, effectively. (If the bed frame is also metal, you get more of that.) Metal "contracts" -- which is why you get tensions and cramps and stiffness from its qi upon overexposrue (unless your wuxing situation is that of Metal deficiency, in which case it is a non-issue, but I hardly ever see any charts with Metal deficiency, and quite a lot with excess -- this is the nature of the time. Generally, we are overexposed to Metal as a society.)

[Taomeow]

Having never owned a futon, I'm having trouble envisioning this- how about a pic of it

 

Mal, thanks for the picture! -- yes, Growant, that's what it looks like (I forgot the word "slats" but that's what I meant by "planks" ). The plywood I put on top of that allows me to keep the padding to a minimum -- just a mattress top, not a mattress, the thickness of a down comforter. I experimented with more padding -- e.g., by putting an inch-thick yoga mat under the pad and trying it out, and my back said "no, this moves in the direction of defying the purpose! Firm is firm is firm, no tricks, please!" So that's the idea. Mal is doing something else with his, something better than a spring mattress IMO but not quite what I did.

[joeblast]

But first I wanted to find out if my personal sense of health and qi being leached out of the lower back by a sagging mattress and replenished by a firm sleeping surface resonates with anyone else... hence the poll.

ah, words to a concept! yup I have a ridiculously expensive mattress (among the 'champion of firm') and a 3 piece topper with it. Yeah, it was that bad.

 

I gave my tempurpedic away, too my son loves it...

[mYTHmAKER]

Someone told me his friends parents, who are Korean, sleep with a blanket on top of a marble slab.

[Taomeow]

Someone told me his friends parents, who are Korean, sleep with a blanket on top of a marble slab.

 

I think Egyptians did that too. And they didn't use a soft pillow for the head but, rather, a hard neck-rest -- like this:

 

 

Of course this may explain why they always walked sideways!

 

but, seriously, I think their "sideways" art may reflect their ideas about the importance of postural alignments, which have everything to do with beauty.

[deci belle]

Having spent the bulk of my life ready, willing and able to sleep on rock ledges, dirt, grass, picnic tables, belay slings, snow caves, "stokes" litters, in the back of trucks, recycling dumpsters, etc… my current bed is a self-built full size frame topped with 1" x 4" pine slats covered with about 4 layers of cardboard from large appliances. I have a wool shearling mattress cover on top of the cardboard. Lately I have been using pillows, but that is not always the case.

 

When I have back pain, it is usually from trying to move heavy objects— fortunately that only happens infrequently.

 

Actually, I do walk sideways a lot (Carioca-style) and skip, too! heehee!

Edited July 24, 2011 by deci belle

[Taomeow]