A Higher Love

[Aaron]

Hello folks,

 

I start this thread with a heavy heart, if only because I don't want what I am telling you to be misconstrued as a truth or an absolute about the human experience, but rather as my own experience. My experience differs from your experience, simply because there is no way for you to completely identify with it, so I ask first, that you don't identify with it, but rather listen to it.

 

There's this idea that's been bouncing around in my head, sort of like a pinball bumping on bouncers with nowhere to go. What I've been thinking about is this notion of Love, not love, but Love with a capital L and what it really means. For me it took a long time to wrap my head around Love, no so much love. You see for me there is a difference in the two.

 

Love, for me, in unconditional, in other words, Love with a capital L literally has no boundaries, nothing that holds it in and binds it, it is everything that I aspire to, without even knowing it. Love is that part of me that connects me to you and you to me, it is the part of me that resides within the kindest act and even the darkest act, although sometimes it's very hard to see.

 

Love is a state of mind where you can look at someone who has done something completely beyond reasoning and say, "I hope things turn out well for them." It is being able to see the person still, the person that was and is and understanding that what that person is, isn't the entirety of that person, that somewhere within them still resides a piece worth loving.

 

I know many of you are asking, "how can you love someone who has done something horrible? Really horrible?" Well it's not easy.

 

I grew up in what most would consider an abusive home. My mother was mentally ill and my father was a sociopath. There's really no other way to describe them. My mother was prone to moods where she could be the most loving person in the world one moment, then in the next become a monster. This paradox made it hard for me to understand the concept of unconditional love, because for me there were very real conditions regarding love. If I woke my mother while she was napping she no longer loved me. If I brought her coffee and it was not made right, she no longer loved me, but then there were moments when it was different.

 

On a Saturday afternoon when I was eight, I snuck into my parent's bedroom and stole all the money from my father's wallet. It was his entire paycheck and a bit more. I proceeded to go downtown and spend the money at the local ice cream shop. The owner knew my father, saw the amount of money I had and called my father. My father sent my brothers and sisters out to find me. I was standing on a bridge when I saw my sister coming, in a moment of panic I threw all the money over the side of the bridge, around two hundred dollars, which doesn't seem like a lot now, but this was the seventies, so think more like a thousand dollars.

 

My sister took me home and my father beat me. Not a spanking, but a beating. It was one of the few times I remember my father hitting me. At the end I couldn't move. I remember I was so sore that even touching me stomach brought tears to my eyes. My mother took me in her arms and laid me in her bed beside her and held me, singing softly in my ear.

 

It was hard for me to peg my mother as good or bad, because she was capable of both. Later in life I tended to remember the bad more than the good, but I bring this up as an example of how I was conditioned to think of love, how I was taught love worked.

 

Another example of love came to me in a different manner. When I was a couple of months older and we had moved to a new town and new home a family friend came to stay with us. He was young, still in his teens, and he shared a room with me. A couple of weeks after he moved in with us, he started to sexually abuse me. At first it wasn't so bad, uncomfortable, but nothing really "horrible" at least not as horrible as I learned it could get. He stayed with us for two years before my parents kicked him out and I ended up having to endure his "love" for nearly two years. I say "love" because that's what he called it, he was "loving" me. To say that it ended up confusing me to no ends is an understatement, in fact it made it almost impossible for me to truly understand what love really was.

 

So here, in this brief explanation of my life I share with you something I share very rarely, but now have no shame about, but at one time that wasn't so, at one time these moments of my life very much defined me as a person, as well as defined my own views on love and led me to believe that love didn't exist.

 

So what changed my mind? Did I meet a person that unconditionally loved me, for good and bad, leading me down a path of righteousness? No, not in the least. In fact the majority of my relationships over the years were abusive and less than ideal. Did I stumble across love, see it in its natural form and suddenly realize that love existed, that it was real and concrete and perfect in all its adornments? No, that never happened either. What happened then? Well it's hard to explain. My first moment when I think I first experienced love was under the effects of a dream.

 

I was twenty-two, I was very depressed, and I remember that I wanted to end it all, seriously end it all, not just a cry for help type of ending it, but a secretive, I'm not going to tell anyone and tomorrow I'm going to do it, type of depression. At that time I rarely prayed, but for some reason that night I did. I knelt before my bed with tears in my eyes and I prayed, "God, I can't take this anymore. If there's a reason for me being here, please show me, or else I'm going to kill myself tomorrow."

 

Yes I know, very dramatic and twenty-ish. What happened though was amazing. I had a dream. In this dream a man came up to me and stabbed me. I remember the pain was very real and I felt very much like I was dieing. As my final moment passed, I found myself fading away, no body or anything else, just my self, for lack of a better explanation. I suddenly found myself in this vast space, not darkness mind you, just space. There seemed to be no direction or point of reference, just vast open space. Then slowly, balls of light appeared all around me, stationary, not moving, but just sitting there. After a brief period a voice suddenly spoke to me and I realized someone or something was with me.

 

This voice said, "Aaron, you are on the Earth for a reason. You must learn a lesson. If you die you will come here. There is no time or space here, this place exists outside of the world, but it can reach the world. When you come here, you will then return to the world and be born again. You can be born in the past and in the future, it doesn't matter, because you will not remember anything from your previous life. You will keep coming here until you learn your lesson, then you will pass on from the world and this place."

 

Now as this voice spoke I felt an overwhelming peace and serenity, unlike anything I had experienced before or since. I cannot even begin to describe it, my skin tingles when I remember it. It was the most amazing sensation I've ever had in my life, better than any drug or drink, it was absent of want or need, it was as if there was no want or need, just a complete sense of satisfaction, as if there were no wants or needs at all. Again, it's hard to explain.

 

Anyways, I was trying to absorb what I had just been told, because it seemed to defy everything I had believed up until then as a good Christian. When I had finally understood what I had been told the voice asked me, "Do you understand."

 

I thought, "yes."

 

And that was that. I suddenly woke up the next morning, alive and well with the burden of depression lifted.

 

How strange that I would find love in those words, but they are there. You see when we feel loved, it's because we feel that someone else values us, holds us as being something worth their attention. That being, when he helped me to realize that there was a reason for me being here, he also helped me to realize that I was worthy of love, and if I was worthy of love, then wasn't everyone else too?

 

And that was my first glimpse, the spark that shook me ever so softly from a life of depression, sadness, and hopelessness, if only for a short while. You see that experience was enough to get me out of that rut for a short while, but it didn't erase the decades of abuse that I had experienced.

 

In 1994 I was diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I had horrible flashbacks of things that had happened to me earlier in life, flashbacks I couldn't control. They dictated my life. After several years I became agoraphobic, afraid to leave my home for fear of having a panic attack. I had drank from the time I was twenty-one, heavily, but at some point my drinking seemed to become the sole purpose of my life.

 

My mother had told me that if you drank before five you were an alcoholic and I took that to heart. Everyday I would wait til five o'clock and then start to drink. For around ten years I followed the same regime, a twelve pack and a couple Mickie's Hornets. I functioned well, in fact most people never called me an alcoholic, after all I was a happy drunk, people liked being around me, or so I thought.

 

I was oblivious to the amount of pain and suffering that my actions caused others and me. The fact I bounced checks, stole money, lied, cheated, did whatever it took to get a drink didn't seem strange to me, because I "needed" to drink. Towards the end I stopped being a happy drunk, instead my past started to come back and haunt me, even in the midst of my sanctuary. I became belligerent, hateful, and spiteful. I became a person I couldn't even stand to look at in the mirror.

 

So all stories like this come to an end, most don't have happy endings, I was lucky, because mine did. It started with a fist fight and a threat of suicide. I remember as clear as day standing on my porch, the morning after hearing my brother describe to me what happened the night before, but not remembering a single bit and praying, even though I didn't really believe in prayer or God. I prayed, "God please just help me get to Monday and I'll go to an AA Meeting." And that's what I did.

 

I got sober. I haven't had a drink since that day. I tell people that even in those dark years I read the Tao Teh Ching and meditated, and I did, but I can honestly say it was all dead, anything that sprung from it was ornamental at best. Yes, it did help me to keep my balance for a time, but eventually, even those with the best balance fall and I did too.

 

So where does the love come into all of this? Well some of it came to me while I was learning how to be sober. I made a fearless and thorough examination of my life, how I had harmed others (not how others had harmed me) and I came to understand that my actions not only effect others, but also effect myself. Call it karma, just deserts, God's will, whatever, but I learned that if one wants peace and happiness in their life, then they need to sow peace and happiness.

 

Still that's not love, Love came along later. You see three years into my recovery I had another breakdown of sorts. I was working as a collections agent for a major corporation and I got a strange call. The man on that call was drunk and he started to hit on me. First let me say, I'm forty-one, but most people by the sound of my voice think I'm a teenager, so did this guy. He started to ask me very uncomfortable questions. I started to get very scared and suddenly I had a flashback. In one second years of abuse came back and I felt completely helpless. I left work and went home and never returned.

 

I lied and told people I was on reprieve, but really I was on a disability. My mental state had deteriorated

to the point I couldn't leave the house. A sniff of cologne or perfume, someone touching me a certain way, saying something that seemed to click and I'd be back there.

 

Anyways there was one night a few years backs that I remember particularly, I woke up in the middle of the night to find a young boy, around nine sitting in his pajamas at the end of my bed. He looked at me and said, "I'm scared, is he going to come for us?" I looked at the boy and realized he was me. I started to cry and I couldn't stop. I felt his hand on my leg and the little boy said, "don't be scared. I wont let him hurt you."

 

For thirty years I had buried this little boy inside me. The little boy that came out when I was beaten, when I was abused. The little boy that took all my shame and pain and held it so I could survive, have a glimmer of hope in the human race. I had buried him and abandoned him, but he had never abandoned me. That night as I lay sad and lonely, frightened of things that had happened so many years ago, he came to me and let me know that he loved me, that even if no one else was there, he was always there for me. He stayed with me til I fell asleep and the next morning he was gone.

 

So my first glimpse of Love, with a capital L, came from a boy who has never aged, a boy that lives deep inside of me, still to this day. I realize now that this has gone in a direction, the story and my life, that I never intended, but like I've been told before and I believe, if one reaches a state of contentment in their life, then they can look back on their life and have no regrets for the past, nor will they wish to shut the door on it. I don't have regrets anymore.

 

Now, the big L came to me later. You see when I first hopped online I thought I knew what Taoism was all about and Buddhism, but really I didn't know shit, nor do I now, but I met someone who did. He was on another forum and it ended up that he lived about ten miles away from me. We met and had dinner. He listened to my off the wall crap regarding what Taoism was and said nothing really, just listened. We continued to meet and he started to share more and more, lend me books, give me his thoughts and ideas. Over the following months I began to learn about Taoism in an entirely different light, not the philosophical bull that I thought was Taoism, you know, morality, democracy, etc., but rather the experience of Tao.

 

I stopped meditating for the first time in nearly twenty years. It was in that period of no-meditation that I began to really understand, because even though I didn't know it, I was actually meditating, I just wasn't sitting with my eyes closed not thinking, or being. Instead I was BEING, living and experiencing.

 

I was still having flashbacks and such, but not anything too bad. It was during my conversations with him, where he started to share his belief that there really was no higher power, or conscious being in control of the universe, that my ideas of how the world worked slowly changed.

 

My idea of Love changed. Love was no longer God, but rather it became a state of being, that perfect being that existed within us. Love for me was something that transcended pain and suffering, it was something that existed in the darkest night and brightest day. It rose above hatred and pain, above greed and suffering, and still sat silent and peaceful, like the eye within a hurricane, it was the solace that existed, safe and free of any suffering.

 

Love was the ability to care for someone so completely that any notion of yourself is wiped away and all that matters is the well being of this other person. It's the notion that you and I are not separate at all, but rather we just see ourselves as separate. It's the ability to love you even if you do something I don't like. It's the ability to forgive you, not because I want forgiveness, but because I understand that you are worth forgiving. Love with a capital L is showing compassion for the boy at the foot of your bed, but also showing compassion for the young man that caused you so much pain so many years ago, if only because you can see the boy inside of him as well. Love with a capital L is being able to see through what is now and understand what has been, that in the blink of an eye, if only one thing shifted in a certain way, you could've been that young man.

 

Love for me, today at least, is being able to look back at my life and see how lucky I really am to be where I am now. That all the things that have happened to me in the end opened up my eyes and mind so that I can REALLY see. I can understand that there is no "I", but rather there is only "It". Me, you, and the Universe.

 

When I can see this, really see it, then everything that has come before, everything that should've turned me to a bitter, angry, lonely man, means nothing, because in that moment of real clarity you understand the futility of anger and loneliness and instead see that you are never really angry at someone else, but rather you are angry at yourself, and as for loneliness, well I just need to look out my window to realize I'm never really alone.

 

Anyways, this was very long. I doubt many people will make it to the end, but it was cathartic (for me). I shared it with you because I thought it was time to share it. I honestly and truthfully hope life is treating you well, but if it isn't, then just know that you are here to learn a lesson.

 

Aaron

[Vmarco]

Hello folks,

 

What I've been thinking about is this notion of Love, not love, but Love with a capital L and what it really means. For me it took a long time to wrap my head around Love, no so much love. You see for me there is a difference in the two.

 

Aaron

 

There are so many ideas about love,...however, to get to a statement about Unconditional Love, it is probably best to begin by discussing what it is not. For one, it is not uncovered through personal experiences. Experience born of belief (personal experience) can only be experienced through the condition of that belief (personal experience). Unconditional Love is recognized through impersonal experience.

 

In America, Christian love, what the faith-based call agape, is often considered the highest love, but that too is merely a conditional love. To better understand this type of love, simply consider the Great Love Chapter of Christendom, Corinthians 13; for example, "love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things", 1 Cor 13:7. Although this form of love, that is, bearing, believing, hoping and enduring is more commitment orientated then fleeting, it isn't Unconditional Love, but the submission, devotion, expectation and suffering to the conditions of their religions brewed beliefs.

 

Ontosophy (literally the wisdom of real being) on the other hand, understands that no matter how one perceives it, experience born of belief can only be experienced through the condition of that belief. And thus all wisdom rejects Christianity's conditional, self-perpetuating ideas.

 

Passionate or emotional love, is another type of conditional love. This is the love of solicitudal desire and enthralled obsession. Such love is usually, but not necessarily, accompanied by biological, chemical or instinctual love, which manifests a yearning for the welfare, possession and companionship of another. Ordinarily, emotional love is based on something received through physiological or psychological arousal, and commonly includes, as in Christian love, an attached expectation.

 

Then there is the amoral intimacy of Conscious Love. This is the Love of the Bodhisattva; the wish for the well being and liberation of all; without predisposition, and indifferent towards the consequences to the lover. In other words, as Alfred Orage said, "so she becomes perfectly herself, what matter I?" In regards to Buddhist, most Christians are surprised that they do not believe in a God; but they do recognize Love,...a love without the conditions of hope and faith.

 

The Bodhisattva wish, in the above context, is not synonymous with hope or desire. Hope and desire belong to an anticipation and expectation of the future. Hope and desire ensues from the thought of lack; that things should be other than they are. A wish on the other hand, is an intention, unencumbered by predisposition; to allow Love to flow, and arrive at its own harmonium.

 

Individuality is incessantly convinced of its separateness; it bears, believes, hopes, and endures within a perceived encapsulated form, manifesting conditions that perpetually repeat themselves. A wish arises from the Heart of one's Essence. There is no absence of Love, anywhere; only an enshrouding by brewed beliefs and predispositions that have been built against love. Thus, to realize the love (and light)that we are, complete and without lack, we simply bring love to another through a clear presence. We cannot do that through conditions, because all conditions are in the past. Love is only in the present. Which isn't saying "relative or perceived present", because THERE IS NO PRESENT IN TIME.

 

The fragrance of love is as a tremendum uncovered by surrendering expectation, and through that immediacy, one witnesses a grand preferenceless reality. A reality of Love's own flow; unveiled of what belief and predisposition think it should be.

 

Ontosophy, the path of the wisdom of Being, understands that belief implies doubt. It is merely a concept we use to make the unknown palatable. To trust in a monotheistic god, or any belief, is committing ones reliance, dependence, certitude, allegiance and potential transcendence to something that is not ratiocinatively known to be true. If a belief were true, we wouldn't have to believe it. Failure to recognize the false as false, or a belief as that which suppresses, denies, disempowers and disconnects, is the ruination of destiny's and self-sabotage of the full expression of one's inherent talents.

 

If we are to trust, let our trust be with something we can never leave and that can never leave us. Let our trust be in love.

 

Love is not something that has been canonized, or whose definition has been closed to change, like Christian scripture. To trust in old myths, is not love, but blind faith perpetuated by our ancestors; a behavior no less than insane. Simply consider the hundreds of conditions that the Judaeo-Christian-Muslem Gods put on their faithful. Of course, to divert the truth and preserve the lie, their faithful insist on playing pick-n-choose with what the Bible actually says. Is it really a wonder why Christian conservatives understand the dynamics of truth suppression so well?

 

Unconditional love is neither positive or negative,...unconditional is always neutral and impersonal. I once heard it said that, "positive and negative do not exist except as we see them as such."

 

Now,...how can one answer the question, "do I love myself unconditionally." There are 5 words in the question. What does one mean by I? Or myself? If the I is attached to ego, then it is a condition, and thus cloaked from the threshold of the unconditional.

 

I fully agree that the way to love is through the heart. But who understands what the heart truly is. Do not most mistaken the heart for cerebral-centric positiveness? Some think the heart is about humility,...I agree with Wei Wu Wie who said, "there is no humility, only degrees of pride."

 

Muddied love, like a muddied diamond, has not lost its luster. Love is our essence,...and undivided light is the proof that statement is true. Of course in our society, people don't want to see that what they thought was meaningful may actually be meaningless, thus for most, love is buried in mud.

 

I agree that Unconditional Love is beyond boundaries,...but also beyond any center. Unconditional Love is beyond Duality, it has no center or boundary, no here ot there, no One or Many.

 

Let me repeat that for you,...love is beyond One and Many. No "One" can love you Unconditionally. No "One" can ever realize enlightenment.

 

I agree, that Unconditional Love can arise from a "boy that never ages,...never changes,...deep inside." That's why the second most important Absolute Bodhichitta is to "find the consciousness we had before we were born."

 

V

[Aetherous]

_/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

[Otis]

Great sharing, Aaron. What you're saying makes a lot of sense to me, and I appreciate you putting it in context of your life.

 

peace,

 

otis

[goldisheavy]

Well, that was amazing. I almost have trouble believing something so poetic can be real, but I do believe the whole story. It's pretty mind-blowing for me even though I've had my share of mind-blowing experiences.

 

Thanks Aaron.

[suninmyeyes]

Wow Aaron that was amazing read!Beutiful.Thank you for sharing.

 

'..you are never angry with someone else,but rather you re angry with yourself'..

This quoted above if deeply understood can cause a revolution in anyones life.A turning point where peace and love come and stay.

[Aaron]

Hello GIH,

 

Hmm... I'm not sure how to respond. It's all true. In fact this is the first time I mentioned seeing myself as a child to anyone, other than my psychiatrist (who wanted to put me on drugs for hallucinations). It's cathartic though, letting go of secrets, even if I haven't had that experience in awhile, just knowing it's not something that needs to be hidden is nice. In fact my emotional and mental health have never been better, at least that's how I feel. I honestly credit it with "The Book" by Alan Watts. It was instrumental in my understanding of the world and coming to a truer understanding of compassion and love.

 

Thank you for your kind words. I think we've all had mind blowing experiences and if we haven't then maybe we're not living.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

Great sharing, Aaron. What you're saying makes a lot of sense to me, and I appreciate you putting it in context of your life.

 

peace,

 

otis

 

 

Thanks for the kind words. You're a good man Otis.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

Wow Aaron that was amazing read!Beutiful.Thank you for sharing.

 

'..you are never angry with someone else,but rather you re angry with yourself'..

This quoted above if deeply understood can cause a revolution in anyones life.A turning point where peace and love come and stay.

 

I agree Suninmyeyes. I think in order for one to reach this point, they must first wish to be free of suffering, then they can begin to realize the root of their suffering, the chief among them being anger.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

_/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

 

 

 

_/\_

[Aaron]

There are so many ideas about love,...however, to get to a statement about Unconditional Love, it is probably best to begin by discussing what it is not. For one, it is not uncovered through personal experiences. Experience born of belief (personal experience) can only be experienced through the condition of that belief (personal experience). Unconditional Love is recognized through impersonal experience.

 

In America, Christian love, what the faith-based call agape, is often considered the highest love, but that too is merely a conditional love. To better understand this type of love, simply consider the Great Love Chapter of Christendom, Corinthians 13; for example, "love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things", 1 Cor 13:7. Although this form of love, that is, bearing, believing, hoping and enduring is more commitment orientated then fleeting, it isn't Unconditional Love, but the submission, devotion, expectation and suffering to the conditions of their religions brewed beliefs.

 

Ontosophy (literally the wisdom of real being) on the other hand, understands that no matter how one perceives it, experience born of belief can only be experienced through the condition of that belief. And thus all wisdom rejects Christianity's conditional, self-perpetuating ideas.

 

Passionate or emotional love, is another type of conditional love. This is the love of solicitudal desire and enthralled obsession. Such love is usually, but not necessarily, accompanied by biological, chemical or instinctual love, which manifests a yearning for the welfare, possession and companionship of another. Ordinarily, emotional love is based on something received through physiological or psychological arousal, and commonly includes, as in Christian love, an attached expectation.

 

Then there is the amoral intimacy of Conscious Love. This is the Love of the Bodhisattva; the wish for the well being and liberation of all; without predisposition, and indifferent towards the consequences to the lover. In other words, as Alfred Orage said, "so she becomes perfectly herself, what matter I?" In regards to Buddhist, most Christians are surprised that they do not believe in a God; but they do recognize Love,...a love without the conditions of hope and faith.

 

The Bodhisattva wish, in the above context, is not synonymous with hope or desire. Hope and desire belong to an anticipation and expectation of the future. Hope and desire ensues from the thought of lack; that things should be other than they are. A wish on the other hand, is an intention, unencumbered by predisposition; to allow Love to flow, and arrive at its own harmonium.

 

Individuality is incessantly convinced of its separateness; it bears, believes, hopes, and endures within a perceived encapsulated form, manifesting conditions that perpetually repeat themselves. A wish arises from the Heart of one's Essence. There is no absence of Love, anywhere; only an enshrouding by brewed beliefs and predispositions that have been built against love. Thus, to realize the love (and light)that we are, complete and without lack, we simply bring love to another through a clear presence. We cannot do that through conditions, because all conditions are in the past. Love is only in the present. Which isn't saying "relative or perceived present", because THERE IS NO PRESENT IN TIME.

 

The fragrance of love is as a tremendum uncovered by surrendering expectation, and through that immediacy, one witnesses a grand preferenceless reality. A reality of Love's own flow; unveiled of what belief and predisposition think it should be.

 

Ontosophy, the path of the wisdom of Being, understands that belief implies doubt. It is merely a concept we use to make the unknown palatable. To trust in a monotheistic god, or any belief, is committing ones reliance, dependence, certitude, allegiance and potential transcendence to something that is not ratiocinatively known to be true. If a belief were true, we wouldn't have to believe it. Failure to recognize the false as false, or a belief as that which suppresses, denies, disempowers and disconnects, is the ruination of destiny's and self-sabotage of the full expression of one's inherent talents.

 

If we are to trust, let our trust be with something we can never leave and that can never leave us. Let our trust be in love.

 

Love is not something that has been canonized, or whose definition has been closed to change, like Christian scripture. To trust in old myths, is not love, but blind faith perpetuated by our ancestors; a behavior no less than insane. Simply consider the hundreds of conditions that the Judaeo-Christian-Muslem Gods put on their faithful. Of course, to divert the truth and preserve the lie, their faithful insist on playing pick-n-choose with what the Bible actually says. Is it really a wonder why Christian conservatives understand the dynamics of truth suppression so well?

 

Unconditional love is neither positive or negative,...unconditional is always neutral and impersonal. I once heard it said that, "positive and negative do not exist except as we see them as such."

 

Now,...how can one answer the question, "do I love myself unconditionally." There are 5 words in the question. What does one mean by I? Or myself? If the I is attached to ego, then it is a condition, and thus cloaked from the threshold of the unconditional.

 

I fully agree that the way to love is through the heart. But who understands what the heart truly is. Do not most mistaken the heart for cerebral-centric positiveness? Some think the heart is about humility,...I agree with Wei Wu Wie who said, "there is no humility, only degrees of pride."

 

Muddied love, like a muddied diamond, has not lost its luster. Love is our essence,...and undivided light is the proof that statement is true. Of course in our society, people don't want to see that what they thought was meaningful may actually be meaningless, thus for most, love is buried in mud.

 

I agree that Unconditional Love is beyond boundaries,...but also beyond any center. Unconditional Love is beyond Duality, it has no center or boundary, no here ot there, no One or Many.

 

Let me repeat that for you,...love is beyond One and Many. No "One" can love you Unconditionally. No "One" can ever realize enlightenment.

 

I agree, that Unconditional Love can arise from a "boy that never ages,...never changes,...deep inside." That's why the second most important Absolute Bodhichitta is to "find the consciousness we had before we were born."

 

V

 

Hello Vmarco,

 

Where were you when we had our discussion on the nature of compassion? Anyways, I think you're right about some things, but I honestly feel that without experiencing the true nature of reality, one cannot understand the nature of High Compassion and Love. For me Higher Compassion and Love are natural expressions that come from being in harmony with the world around us, but this doesn't mean that it is devoid of motivation or sentiment, only that the sentiment and emotion are pure, not ascribed to good or bad, but rather to a desire for the well being of another.

 

Aaron

[strawdog65]

I'm glad you're here Aaron.

You deserve to feel Love in your life.

[goldisheavy]

Hello GIH,

 

Hmm... I'm not sure how to respond. It's all true. In fact this is the first time I mentioned seeing myself as a child to anyone, other than my psychiatrist (who wanted to put me on drugs for hallucinations). It's cathartic though, letting go of secrets, even if I haven't had that experience in awhile, just knowing it's not something that needs to be hidden is nice. In fact my emotional and mental health have never been better, at least that's how I feel. I honestly credit it with "The Book" by Alan Watts. It was instrumental in my understanding of the world and coming to a truer understanding of compassion and love.

 

Thank you for your kind words. I think we've all had mind blowing experiences and if we haven't then maybe we're not living.

 

Aaron

 

I do believe every word, but I did have a tiny doubt creep into my mind, which is why I confessed. I think the reason for my tiny doubt was that your writing is so perfect, as if it was written by a professional writer for a novel.

 

Thank you once again for sharing. I hope your life is much easier now. I don't know if I would have the strength to go on in your shoes.

[doc benway]

 

Anyways, this was very long. I doubt many people will make it to the end, but it was cathartic (for me). I shared it with you because I thought it was time to share it. I honestly and truthfully hope life is treating you well, but if it isn't, then just know that you are here to learn a lesson.

 

Aaron

 

Powerful stuff Aaron.

I'm very happy that you have come as far as you have bearing such a heavy burden and that you've found a way to accept and love.

It has also been my experience that trauma can lead to profound self examination which is the foundation of understanding and awakening.

Pleasant experiences make life delightful.

Painful experiences provide the opportunities for growth.

I sincerely appreciate your willingness to share your story and wish you the best.

 

 

I honestly credit it with "The Book" by Alan Watts. It was instrumental in my understanding of the world and coming to a truer understanding of compassion and love.

The Book, along with other stuff by Watts, had a profound effect on me as well.

[mYTHmAKER]

Thank you Aaron

You write and express yourself very well

Perhaps some day you might consider a book.

When we look back we see that whatever twists and turns we made

were supposed to be that way. No regrets.

[mYTHmAKER]

There are so many ideas about love,...however, to get to a statement about Unconditional Love, it is probably best to begin by discussing what it is not. For one, it is not uncovered through personal experiences. Experience born of belief (personal experience) can only be experienced through the condition of that belief (personal experience). Unconditional Love is recognized through impersonal experience.

 

In America, Christian love, what the faith-based call agape, is often considered the highest love, but that too is merely a conditional love. To better understand this type of love, simply consider the Great Love Chapter of Christendom, Corinthians 13; for example, "love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things", 1 Cor 13:7. Although this form of love, that is, bearing, believing, hoping and enduring is more commitment orientated then fleeting, it isn't Unconditional Love, but the submission, devotion, expectation and suffering to the conditions of their religions brewed beliefs.

 

Ontosophy (literally the wisdom of real being) on the other hand, understands that no matter how one perceives it, experience born of belief can only be experienced through the condition of that belief. And thus all wisdom rejects Christianity's conditional, self-perpetuating ideas.

 

Passionate or emotional love, is another type of conditional love. This is the love of solicitudal desire and enthralled obsession. Such love is usually, but not necessarily, accompanied by biological, chemical or instinctual love, which manifests a yearning for the welfare, possession and companionship of another. Ordinarily, emotional love is based on something received through physiological or psychological arousal, and commonly includes, as in Christian love, an attached expectation.

 

Then there is the amoral intimacy of Conscious Love. This is the Love of the Bodhisattva; the wish for the well being and liberation of all; without predisposition, and indifferent towards the consequences to the lover. In other words, as Alfred Orage said, "so she becomes perfectly herself, what matter I?" In regards to Buddhist, most Christians are surprised that they do not believe in a God; but they do recognize Love,...a love without the conditions of hope and faith.

 

The Bodhisattva wish, in the above context, is not synonymous with hope or desire. Hope and desire belong to an anticipation and expectation of the future. Hope and desire ensues from the thought of lack; that things should be other than they are. A wish on the other hand, is an intention, unencumbered by predisposition; to allow Love to flow, and arrive at its own harmonium.

 

Individuality is incessantly convinced of its separateness; it bears, believes, hopes, and endures within a perceived encapsulated form, manifesting conditions that perpetually repeat themselves. A wish arises from the Heart of one's Essence. There is no absence of Love, anywhere; only an enshrouding by brewed beliefs and predispositions that have been built against love. Thus, to realize the love (and light)that we are, complete and without lack, we simply bring love to another through a clear presence. We cannot do that through conditions, because all conditions are in the past. Love is only in the present. Which isn't saying "relative or perceived present", because THERE IS NO PRESENT IN TIME.

 

The fragrance of love is as a tremendum uncovered by surrendering expectation, and through that immediacy, one witnesses a grand preferenceless reality. A reality of Love's own flow; unveiled of what belief and predisposition think it should be.

 

Ontosophy, the path of the wisdom of Being, understands that belief implies doubt. It is merely a concept we use to make the unknown palatable. To trust in a monotheistic god, or any belief, is committing ones reliance, dependence, certitude, allegiance and potential transcendence to something that is not ratiocinatively known to be true. If a belief were true, we wouldn't have to believe it. Failure to recognize the false as false, or a belief as that which suppresses, denies, disempowers and disconnects, is the ruination of destiny's and self-sabotage of the full expression of one's inherent talents.

 

If we are to trust, let our trust be with something we can never leave and that can never leave us. Let our trust be in love.

 

Love is not something that has been canonized, or whose definition has been closed to change, like Christian scripture. To trust in old myths, is not love, but blind faith perpetuated by our ancestors; a behavior no less than insane. Simply consider the hundreds of conditions that the Judaeo-Christian-Muslem Gods put on their faithful. Of course, to divert the truth and preserve the lie, their faithful insist on playing pick-n-choose with what the Bible actually says. Is it really a wonder why Christian conservatives understand the dynamics of truth suppression so well?

 

Unconditional love is neither positive or negative,...unconditional is always neutral and impersonal. I once heard it said that, "positive and negative do not exist except as we see them as such."

 

Now,...how can one answer the question, "do I love myself unconditionally." There are 5 words in the question. What does one mean by I? Or myself? If the I is attached to ego, then it is a condition, and thus cloaked from the threshold of the unconditional.

 

I fully agree that the way to love is through the heart. But who understands what the heart truly is. Do not most mistaken the heart for cerebral-centric positiveness? Some think the heart is about humility,...I agree with Wei Wu Wie who said, "there is no humility, only degrees of pride."

 

Muddied love, like a muddied diamond, has not lost its luster. Love is our essence,...and undivided light is the proof that statement is true. Of course in our society, people don't want to see that what they thought was meaningful may actually be meaningless, thus for most, love is buried in mud.

 

I agree that Unconditional Love is beyond boundaries,...but also beyond any center. Unconditional Love is beyond Duality, it has no center or boundary, no here ot there, no One or Many.

 

Let me repeat that for you,...love is beyond One and Many. No "One" can love you Unconditionally. No "One" can ever realize enlightenment.

 

I agree, that Unconditional Love can arise from a "boy that never ages,...never changes,...deep inside." That's why the second most important Absolute Bodhichitta is to "find the consciousness we had before we were born."

 

V

 

Yes as you say "There are so many ideas about love"

Aaron shared his experience from his heart. I don't believe he was asking for agreement or disagreement.

There really is no need and in many ways it is inappropriate to express any egocentric beliefs in contradiction

or in agreement of what he has shared.

If the topic opens up to does unconditional love exist or what is unconditional love then express your opinions

and we can fight it out.

[Aaron]

Yes as you say "There are so many ideas about love"

Aaron shared his experience from his heart. I don't believe he was asking for agreement or disagreement.

There really is no need and in many ways it is inappropriate to express any egocentric beliefs in contradiction

or in agreement of what he has shared.

If the topic opens up to does unconditional love exist or what is unconditional love then express your opinions

and we can fight it out.

 

Hello Mythmaker,

 

I say have it out. It's not hurting my feelings. I appreciated his honest reflection on the notion of unconditional love and I don't think any harm will come from discussing it, so again, feel free to "fight it out".

 

Aaron

 

P.S. I appreciate your encouragement. I don't think I'm ready to write a book, but if the time comes when I am, I most certainly will.

[Aaron]

I'm glad you're here Aaron.

You deserve to feel Love in your life.

 

 

Thanks Dawg... hehehe. I appreciate that. I'm happy you're back here as well. Don't be a stranger.

 

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

Powerful stuff Aaron.

I'm very happy that you have come as far as you have bearing such a heavy burden and that you've found a way to accept and love.

It has also been my experience that trauma can lead to profound self examination which is the foundation of understanding and awakening.

Pleasant experiences make life delightful.

Painful experiences provide the opportunities for growth.

I sincerely appreciate your willingness to share your story and wish you the best.

 

 

 

The Book, along with other stuff by Watts, had a profound effect on me as well.

 

 

Hello Steve,

 

I think the important thing to remember, for each of us, is that no matter how hard things might have been, there is always someone who has suffered more. This knowledge alone can help us to place our own experiences in perspective. In my years of personal counseling and helping others in the "program" I've heard things that chill my bones. In the end oftentimes, the only thing we can do is listen, but if the opportunity arises to help another, I think it's well worth the effort.

 

I also don't like to think of myself as special, because I know I'm not. As I said others have suffered as well. My honest belief is that if we don't share these things, then what good are they? Part of being human is allowing ourselves to be a part of the human race, to understand our innate connection to each other, to love each other and desire the best for each other, regardless of what's happened. Sharing our darkest experiences, those things that are "taboo" is really the only way to bring these things to light and hopefully provide others with hope as well.

 

I was reading a news story today about a man in Texas who is scheduled for execution. The man shot several people and one of his victims survived. This victim, a muslim, is petitioning the court to stay the man's execution because he believes in forgiveness. This guy is blind in one eye because of this man and he still forgave him enough to fight to keep the man alive. That's really powerful stuff and I think most of us pass up this idea, think of it as idealistic, when in fact it's one of the most liberating experiences one can have.

 

Anyways, thanks for your kind words. I do appreciate what you have to say. I think your honesty and compassion are well expressed on this forum.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

I do believe every word, but I did have a tiny doubt creep into my mind, which is why I confessed. I think the reason for my tiny doubt was that your writing is so perfect, as if it was written by a professional writer for a novel.

 

Thank you once again for sharing. I hope your life is much easier now. I don't know if I would have the strength to go on in your shoes.

 

Well thanks GIH. I appreciate that.

 

Aaron

[Vmarco]

Yes as you say "There are so many ideas about love"

Aaron shared his experience from his heart. I don't believe he was asking for agreement or disagreement.

There really is no need and in many ways it is inappropriate to express any egocentric beliefs in contradiction

or in agreement of what he has shared.

If the topic opens up to does unconditional love exist or what is unconditional love then express your opinions

and we can fight it out.

 

Yes, I agree it is "inappropriate to express any egocentric beliefs in contradiction or in agreement" to a post,...but puzzled as to why you are,...and your desire to fight out your opinions. That was a statement, not a question. Most all answers lie in the dissolution of the question.

 

As I am new to the forum, and usually do not engage in "egocentric beliefs" (or other repetitive redundances), it would probably be best if you spare me from the opinions and fights you mentioned by not responding to my posts, and I will not respond to yours. I obviously share nothing that you're interested in.

 

V

[mYTHmAKER]

Yes, I agree it is "inappropriate to express any egocentric beliefs in contradiction or in agreement" to a post,...but puzzled as to why you are,...and your desire to fight out your opinions. That was a statement, not a question. Most all answers lie in the dissolution of the question.

 

As I am new to the forum, and usually do not engage in "egocentric beliefs" (or other repetitive redundances), it would probably be best if you spare me from the opinions and fights you mentioned by not responding to my posts, and I will not respond to yours. I obviously share nothing that you're interested in.

 

V

 

you got a deal

[Vmarco]

[JustARandomPanda]

Thus, the nature of real compassion is quite alien to most. For example, real compassion is intolerant of all beliefs. Because beliefs obscure the Heart Mind.

 

Would you then be opposed to creating a new thread discussing this? I simply do not know HOW to get rid of all beliefs! The moment I get rid of one set of beliefs there are others that take their place.

[tyler zambori]

Would you then be opposed to creating a new thread discussing this? I simply do not know HOW to get rid of all beliefs! The moment I get rid of one set of beliefs there are others that take their place.

 

 

Oh, that's an interesting subject. I'd like a thread about that.