[Informer]

yourself

[JustARandomPanda]

Just wondering....

 

If Buddhist teachings are impure since the 13th century onward...wouldn't that mean we are already into the beginning of the prophecied Dharma-Ending-Age? Or is Vmarco stating this impurity is restricted only to Vajrayana?

[Vajrahridaya]

Just wondering....

 

If Buddhist teachings are impure since the 13th century onward...wouldn't that mean we are already into the beginning of the prophecied Dharma-Ending-Age? Or is Vmarco stating this impurity is restricted only to Vajrayana?

 

He's stating a subjective opinion which can hardly be considered a universal fact. That's just silly.

 

There are plenty of people still practicing all sorts of pure dharma and having realizations to this day. A few in this 21st century have realized the Rainbow Body, showing that Dzogchen is still a pure short path. Plenty are still realizing the Mahamudra realizations as well including Garchen Rinpoche.

 

His claim is without any anchoring in factual information.

[C T]

Just wondering....

 

If Buddhist teachings are impure since the 13th century onward...wouldn't that mean we are already into the beginning of the prophecied Dharma-Ending-Age? Or is Vmarco stating this impurity is restricted only to Vajrayana?

It would be naive to say all buddhist lineages are endowed with immense purity. There are a few who have deviated.

 

Making sweeping statements in this regard, like Vmarco has, is not very skillful nor helpful.

 

The Kali Yuga has wide implications, and is not caused by this deviation. More than likely, its the opposite - the deviations are the effects of it. As this ending age gains momentum, simultaneously people lose heart and faith, and such disheartened souls make it more difficult for purity to remain. Instead of allowing the teachings to 'carry' the people, it has turned out that people are vainly attempting to carry the teachings, and as humans, there are bound to be human tendencies, of which mental desperation and various other human factors get tangled into the equation. Its a difficult task to totally put aside human whims and simply allow the teachings to shine of their own merit.

[Vmarco]

[JustARandomPanda]

Fascinating.

 

These Buddha-Debates are going to prove quite interesting...

[Vajrahridaya]

Some say that the shadow defines the light,...but there are no shadows in Undivided Light. Undivided Light is not a physical, mental, emotional or spiritual phenomena. The Divided Light of the dualistic perceptual universe(pratītyasamutpāda) is a simulation,...as the first Ultimate Bodhichitta lojong says, look at everything you perceive as a dream,...but relate with that which is not.

 

V

 

It seems to me that you are caught up in a formless reification, thus your interpretation of all this is more akin to Advaita Vedanta, where everything is Brahman (undivided light).

 

It's through the individual that one transcends individuality.

 

V, you should go to... Dharma Wheel Vajrayana section and talk to some real practitioners and scholars of the Vajrayana tradition with far more education and experience in all the branches of Buddhism than any of us here. I'm not good at pulling quotes out of thin air to prove support for my points. You should go to the Dzogchen section maybe and see what you can learn from responses there.

[Vajrahridaya]

I can appreciate your considerable investment into the dogmas of Vajrayana schools within the traditional Lineages,...and your committment to jhana mental stabilisation practices is admirable.

 

My teacher, ChNNR gives transmission for free. My commitment to Jhana was something of the past. My investment is not in dogmas, but in what works for direct realization of nature. I don't know what Dzogchen masters you hung with, but my teachers two main teachers both attained the Jalus, or Rainbow Body of light just last century. So, just from that there is proof that your statement doesn't hold support outside of your subjective experience and projection.

 

The realization of that omnipresent light is good! But that's not the end all be all of Buddha realization. Also, process is what life is, and everyone has a different process, everyone.

 

Though, I do agree that not all paths lead to realization, as the Buddha said as well.

 

Many mystics from monotheistic traditions speak of entering the light beyond the duality of creation and creator where neither concepts exist and of course they generally reify it as well. But, that's still a part of their process.

[Vmarco]

[Vajrahridaya]

Actually my interpretations regarding the core message of Vajrayana are right-side-up,...for example, as previously mentioned, the human-centric point of view is that light travels 186k mps relative to that humans perceived position in time. However. from Light's point of view, that is, the point of view of the source of the light that humans perceive, it moves no distance in no time, and thus has no need for speed.

 

Actually, physical light does have a speed and distance to travel, it's not instantaneous like the luminescence of the mind.

 

Why do we see the light of suns already passed still lit in the night sky? Because the light of these long passed suns is still traveling the distance to get here from far away dead galaxies which are now black holes.

 

I met a fellow named Jack Elias who claimed to have accessed his Rainbow Body, although I doubted it from his belief patterns, and attempts to sell those beliefs.

 

Do you know what the Rainbow Body is?

Rainbow Body Please read up.

 

The only way to know if this person Jack Elias attained the Rainbow Body realization is if he leaves nothing of his body at the end of his death process, of which there are a few types, those that leave fingernails and hair and those that leave nothing having turned all physical constituents into the light of the Samboghakaya. Also, those with realization but have lots of disciples with plenty that break virtue, will have too much of a physical connection with those students that don't follow the teaching well and will not be able to manifest the rainbow body, which I think is due to the fact of having physical particles linked with these students bodies of bad actions, but will still attain "phowa" through the crown chakra, transcending these physical links anyway.

 

I don't think you've studied enough Vajrayana or met enough Vajrayana Masters in order to make a well educated opinion about it.

 

Both of my Rinpoches teachers attained the Rainbow Body, not at all by stating so, but rather by proving so through what they revealed during their death process.

 

This is proof enough that you are wrong in stating absolutely that no true Vajrayana lineage exists today.

[Vmarco]

Actually, physical light does have a speed and distance to travel, it's not instantaneous like the luminescence of the mind.

 

Why do we see the light of suns already passed still lit in the night sky? Because the light of these long passed suns is still traveling the distance to get here from far away dead galaxies which are now black holes.

 

 

I must assume that your misunderstanding of light is commensurate with your understanding of Vajrayana. So-called physical light is only perceived as physical and all there is, because you have not view light from light's point of view,...just as you (and apparently your Dzogcen teachers)have not viewed Vajra from Vajra's point of view.

 

As previously mentioned, the human-centric point of view is that light travels 186k mps relative to that humans perceived position in time. However. from Light's point of view, it moves no distance in no time, and thus has no need for speed.

 

Your desire to achieve a Rainbow Body is as the story of the lung-gom runner who was very absorbed in his craft. One day while journeying, Buddha stopped by a river across from this lung-gompas hut for a drink. Seeing this traveling monk approach on the other bank, the lung-gompa came out and stood on the water. How long have you practicing austerities? Buddha asked. For twenty-five years, said the lung-gompa. I am able, as you can see, to cross the river by walking on water, he continued. My poor fellow! replied Buddha with commiseration. Have you really wasted so many years for such a trifling result? Why the ferry man will take you across the river for a small coin.

 

The attention and intention of an authentic Vajrayana practioner should be Clear Light,...not Rainbow bodies.

What shape and color is a banana? Absorbing all spectral light except yellow doesnt make it yellow,

while under a microscope, neither has it a shape, until we think that one is there; the true minds essence is beyond shape and form.

 

White is generally agreed to be the fundamental color of visible light. This achromatic color contains all of the colors within the visible spectrum, which can be demonstrated by passing sunlight through a prism. Black is the absence of incandescent light. Simply stated, when we view a black object, we perceive the absorption of most visible light, whereas an object that appears to be white is reflecting most visible wavelengths. That is the case if we are speaking about light. If were speaking about pigment, such as paint, then black is the presence of most colors, and white is the absence of color. Neither visible light nor form actually has color. The color we perceive in an object is derived from the absorption, reflection, and refraction of light as it interacts with the wavelengths of the object. For example, a ripe banana is yellow to our perception because it absorbs almost all wavelengths except yellow, which the surface of its form reflects to our sensory apparatus. What color is a red apple?

 

An authentic Vajrayana practioner is not seeking the White Light or Rainbow Colors of Duality's Reality. Color is a property of divided light inherent in all wavelengths, but it is only perceived when visible light is available.

 

Enlightenment is not about "visible light" nor the electrodynamic spectrum. The COMPLETE electrodynamic spectrum is divided light,...and divided light is an illusion.

 

V

Edited July 24, 2011 by Vmarco

[Informer]

[Vmarco]

[Vajrahridaya]

I must assume that your misunderstanding of light is commensurate with your understanding of Vajrayana. So-called physical light is only perceived as physical and all there is, because you have not view light from light's point of view,...just as you (and apparently your Dzogcen teachers)have not viewed Vajra from Vajra's point of view.

 

Like I said, the light of the minds movement, beyond the physical is instantaneous, there are no boundaries.

 

My Dzogchen master is far deeper than you've ever been. His own teachers attained the Rainbow Body, of which you don't have any knowledge and he gives mind to mind transmission that if you were open to it, would drop your pre-conceptions. But, it seems like you have a lot of conceptual armor on anyway.

 

You seem to think you've already attained the summit of all knowledge and wisdom?

 

Your desire to achieve a Rainbow Body is as the story of the lung-gom runner who was very absorbed in his craft. One day while journeying, Buddha stopped by a river across from this lung-gompa's hut for a drink. Seeing this traveling monk approach on the other bank, the lung-gompa came out and stood on the water. "How long have you practicing austerities?" Buddha asked. "For twenty-five years," said the lung-gompa. "I am able, as you can see, to cross the river by walking on water," he continued. "My poor fellow!" replied Buddha with commiseration. "Have you really wasted so many years for such a trifling result? Why the ferry man will take you across the river for a small coin."

 

It has nothing to do with that. Actually attaining the Rainbow Body is not a parlor trick or a regular siddhi, it is a reflection of realization of total integration of the physical body with the Samboghakaya. Like I said, you obviously have very little knowledge of Vajrayana. Beings do it in order to extend their connection to physically bound beings as it makes it easier to communicate with us body dwellers after death. Of course, they don't really die, they just dissolve into the non-physical clear light of pure awareness.

 

The attention and intention of an authentic Vajrayana practioner should be Clear Light,...not Rainbow bodies.

 

The Jalus is a revelation of physical, not just mental integration with the clear light realization.

 

 

White is generally agreed to be the fundamental color of visible light. This achromatic color contains all of the colors within the visible spectrum, which can be demonstrated by passing sunlight through a prism. Black is the absence of incandescent light. Simply stated, when we view a black object, we perceive the absorption of most visible light, whereas an object that appears to be white is reflecting most visible wavelengths. That is the case if we are speaking about light. If we're speaking about pigment, such as paint, then black is the presence of most colors, and white is the absence of color. Neither visible light nor form actually has color. The color we perceive in an object is derived from the absorption, reflection, and refraction of light as it interacts with the wavelengths of the object. For example, a ripe banana is yellow to our perception because it absorbs almost all wavelengths except yellow, which the surface of its form reflects to our sensory apparatus. What color is a red apple?

 

We learn all this in middle school or early high school in the States.

 

An authentic Vajrayana practioner is not seeking the White Light or Rainbow Colors of Duality's Reality. Color is a property of divided light inherent in all wavelengths, but it is only perceived when visible light is available.

 

Yeah, you really haven't studied much Vajrayana. This has nothing to do with the Rainbow Body realization which is not really about attaining a rainbow of colors. It's about integrating the physical with the beyond physical radiance's from the vajra as it manifests the elements of concrete world experience through the different vibrances of the non-physical color spectrum. It's not about attaining a color.

 

Enlightenment is not about "visible light" nor the electrodynamic spectrum. The COMPLETE electrodynamic spectrum is divided light,...and divided light is an illusion.

 

V

 

You don't read other peoples posts very well, or read the links made available, do you? Oh well... You are so great! You are so realized, you're beyond all the current masters! Sheesh. With this attitude, you won't learn anything. But, I guess you're not here to learn anything.

 

I've also had the bliss experiences, the experiences of merging into the non-physical light, seeing from it's perspective, going beyond light as well into the samadhi of neither perception nor non-perception, which you could say is also neither illumination nor non-illumination. I'm still not a anuttarasamyaksambuddha and make space in my heart to learn from others posts.

[goldisheavy]

Enlightenment is not about "visible light" nor the electrodynamic spectrum. The COMPLETE electrodynamic spectrum is divided light,...and divided light is an illusion.

 

V

 

So the light spectrum is complete and yet divided at the same time. What makes it complete? What makes it divided?

[Vmarco]

So the light spectrum is complete and yet divided at the same time. What makes it complete? What makes it divided?

 

The complete electrodynamic spectrum is divided, simuluated, light. I did not say the electrodynamic spectrum is compete, especially in any sense as having any importance.

 

Different people have differing opinions on Divided Light (that is, all positives and negatives perceived and unperceive within complete duality),...if I told you outright, it would be as a pearl tossed to a swine. The key word there is AS. As for what others,...try the ACIM or Russell's Secret of Light.

 

In all my posts,...in 4 threads,...the subject has come up,...but I'm left feeling like Einstein describing relativity before Planck gave his blessings for others to appreciate it. As you replied to one of my posts,..."good luck."

 

The physical world is very different than the Priests of Science and Religion spew. It is actually closer to this, "The foundation of the physical universe is motion; the ever-changing motion arising out of pairs of unbalanced conditions which must forever move to seek the balanced stillness of unity from which they sprang"However, that motion to return to source, which we see as energy, can never return to source, 1. it has never left source, and 2. it is not real. Motion or the condition called energy can cease, but it can never enter the Unconditional. Every object that can be perceived, not matter how at rest to the senses, is in motion. All form, and all emptiness, is in motion.

 

"Change is an illusion of the senses due to motion. There is no change whatsoever in the universe. There is only an illusio of change set up by the two interchanging lights (positive and negative) that divide and multiply within moving matter and mass."

 

"The senses are the audience for divided light's pulsations. The senses are a part of this illusion. Senses are electric. They belong to the universe of motion and do not respond to stillness. As motion itself is non-

existent, so also are senses non-existent.

 

The senses are but the imagined records of imagined motion, matter and change. The senses have no knowledge of what they sense. They merely record motion.

 

The senses respond to motion in only one direction. They sense the forward flow of time but not its back-

ward flow. If they could register both directions, they would become aware of the stillness of this zero uni-

verse of seeming motion."

 

The awareness of the backward flow of forward moving things is the consciousness of a Tathagata.

 

"When our knowing exceeds our sensing, we will no longer be deceived by the illusions of our senses."

 

 

"As man unfolds from sensed man to spiritual man he gradually becomes aware of the two-way motion of an

effect; that two ways being the visible effect which responds to his senses and the invisible effect which he

knows but does not sense. Gradually the time arrives in his unfolding when his full awareness of Cause voids all reliance upon sensation.

 

He then rises above his sensing. He then knows the universe of motion for what it is instead of for what it

seems to be. "

 

"The entirety of this universe is divided into unbalanced pairs for the purpose of seemingly dividing Undivided Light into a universe of many ones.

 

No matter what names we use to designate one pair from another, whether gravity and radiativity, male and female, positive and negative, charge and discharge, centripetal and centrifugal, generative and radiative, integrative and disintegrative, — all of them are similarly conditioned by the two opposite electrical condi-

tioners.

 

In other words, they are all being either compressed or expanded (yang-yin) if we use pressure terms; or charged and discharged if we use electrical terms. Both are the same. Likewise, all that are being compressed or charged by positive electricity are simultaneously being expanded and discharged by negative electricity to a lesser extent."

 

"Likewise, all that are being expanded by negative electricity are simultaneously beiog compressed and charged

by positive electricity to a lesser extent. This is a two-way universe in all effects of motion, and both opposite effects are expressed in both simultaneously as well as sequentially.'

 

Light cannot be seen; it can only be known. Light is still. The sense of sight cannot respond to stillness. That which the eyes "feel" and believe to be Light is but wave motion simulating the idea of Light. Like all

things else in this electric wave universe the idea of Light cannot be produced. Electric waves simulate idea

only. They do not become idea.

 

When man sees the light of the sun he believes that he is actually seeing light when the nerves of his eyes are but "feeling" the intense, rapid, shortwave vibrations of the kind of wave motion which he senses as incandescence. The intensely vibrant electric current mirrored into the senses of the eyes fairly bums them. They cannot stand that high rate of vibration. The eyes would be destroyed by such a vibration, but light would not be the cause of that destruction. Fast motion, simulating light, would be the cause. It would be like sending a high voltage electric current over a wire so fine that the current would burn it out.

 

Man likewise cannot see darkness. The nerves of his eyes which sense motion slow down to a rate of vibration which he can no longer "feel."

 

Man is so accustomed to the idea that he actually sees light in various intensities illuminating various sub

stances to greater or lesser degree that it is difficult for him to realize that his own senses are but acting as mirrors to reflect various intensities of wave motion. But that is all that is happening.

 

Every electrically conditioned thing in Nature reflects the vibrations of every other thing, to fulfill its desire to synchronize its vibrations with every other thing. All matter is the motion of light. All motion is expressed Ln waves. All light waves are mirrors which reflect each other's condition unto the farthermost star.

 

This is an electrically conditioned wave universe. All wave conditions are forever seeking oneness. For this

reason all sensation responds to all other sensation.

 

Much controversy has arisen as to whether light is corpuscular, as Newton claimed it to be, or a wave (particle or wave). There is much evidence in favor of both theories. It is both. Light is expressed by motion. All motion is wave motion. All waves are expressed by fields of equal and opposite pressures of two-way motion. The entire volume within wave fields is filled with the two opposite expressions of motion — the positive expression which compresses light into solids, and the negative expression which expands it into space surrounding solids.

 

All space within wave fields is curved. Curvature ends at planes of zero curvature which border all wave fields. These boundary planes of omnipresent magnetic Light act as mirrors to reflect all curvature into all other wave fields in the universe, and as fulcrums from which motion in one wave field is universally repeated.

 

Light is all there is, and simulation of that Light in opposite extensions is all there is in the electric wave universe of sensing. The simulation of Light in matter is not Light. There is no Light in matter." Walter Russell 1947.

 

When David Bohm and other say that "all matter is frozen or slowed down light",...it is more correct to say, all matter is slowed down simulated light. Divided light is simulated light.

[goldisheavy]

Vmarco,

 

You're one hell of an incoherent babbling human being. Words seem to have no meaning for you. You just throw them around randomly, the more the better.

 

When I ask you questions that should be small one paragraph answers, if indeed they can be answered, you launch into endless streams of babble. You've got nothing.

 

When I told you "good luck" I didn't mean I was going to leave you alone. I meant, good luck dealing with my questions in the future. I'll let you babble for a bit, but expect me to be back with more questions.

[Vmarco]

Vmarco,

 

You're one hell of an incoherent babbling human being. Words seem to have no meaning for you. You just throw them around randomly, the more the better.

 

When I ask you questions that should be small one paragraph answers, if indeed they can be answered, you launch into endless streams of babble. You've got nothing.

 

When I told you "good luck" I didn't mean I was going to leave you alone. I meant, good luck dealing with my questions in the future. I'll let you babble for a bit, but expect me to be back with more questions.

 

 

Glad to see you made it to the 6th sentence. The lengthy response was warrented. However, if you find my posts as babble, there is no reason to respond again. Please,...whenever you see my avatar, just think babble, and move on,...there is no reason for a person of reason like yourself to waste their time with my nonsense.

 

V

 

"Reason should be destroyed in all Christians." -- Martin Luther

[goldisheavy]

Glad to see you made it to the 6th sentence.

 

I doubt I've read 6 sentences. It was more like 2-3.

 

The lengthy response was warrented.

 

You weren't responding. You were just typing. There is a difference.

 

However, if you find my posts as babble, there is no reason to respond again.

 

There is no reason to avoid responding either. No reason to engage and no reason to avoid engaging. That's the attitude I have.

 

Please,...whenever you see my avatar, just think babble, and move on,...there is no reason for a person of reason like yourself to waste their time with my nonsense.

 

I don't waste my time. If I am responding it means I know what I am doing. I either have some profound purpose in mind or I am just getting some momentary entertainment, but certainly I never waste my time.

[Vmarco]

I doubt I've read 6 sentences. It was more like 2-3.

 

You weren't responding. You were just typing. There is a difference.

 

There is no reason to avoid responding either. No reason to engage and no reason to avoid engaging. That's the attitude I have.

 

I don't waste my time. If I am responding it means I know what I am doing. I either have some profound purpose in mind or I am just getting some momentary entertainment, but certainly I never waste my time.

 

Your post is proof that you waste your time,...you respond to to 2-3 sentences by saying my words are babble = to talk idly, irrationally, indistinctly and without meaning, in, as you mentioned, "an incoherent" foolish and meaningless fashion.

 

The problem as I see it is quite the contrary,...as I shared a logically connected series of quotes (that is, coherent) in response to the question "WHAT MAKES [LIGHT] DIVIDED?"...your response surprizingly exposed a blustering ad hominem unbecoming of any reasoning person.

 

I suppose for someone devoid of any meaningful contribution to the evolution of humanity, there probably "is no reason to avoid" as you mentioned, your continual ad hominem.

 

As I wish to engage with admirable and prudent people, those who would at least attempt to read a response to THEIR QUESTION, and thus choose to not respond to your further ad hominem.

 

V

 

"It is easier to perceive error than to find truth, for the former lies on the surface and is easily seen, while the latter lies in the depth, where few are willing to search for it." Goethe

[JustARandomPanda]

You weren't responding. You were just typing. There is a difference.

 

There are words for that. It's called being a Keyboard Jockey.

[Vmarco]

[goldisheavy]

E = mc*c, but on the 16th density you get M = c*e*e. When you spin up your divided light it becomes whole and then it cancels itself out. What's left is the undivided light. When M = c*c that is the 43rd density and this can only mean one thing. It means you're in a narrow neighborhood and need some directions. At that point the light folds into a pentagram and you'll notice how the GDP of your home country takes a plunge due to an energetic bind. That's the precursor to enlightenment.

 

Any questions?

[Aetherous]

I actually read the whole thing. Maybe I'm not smart enough to get it.

[JustARandomPanda]

I actually read the whole thing. Maybe I'm not smart enough to get it.

 

You're not the only one. I read this whole thread before my first post and I'm still puzzled too.