[ralis]

We already know that from the beginning, that learning about Buddhism is about unlearning habit patterns then instilling the right type of information that reflects realization.

 

 

Who determines the correct information? If this information feels and looks right does that mean their is any validity to said information? I assume you are talking about lineage and religious doctrine.

[Vajrahridaya]

Who determines the correct information? If this information feels and looks right does that mean their is any validity to said information? I assume you are talking about lineage and religious doctrine.

 

Just know what due to the fact that you are not a mahasiddha, you could be wrong about every one of your assumptions.

[ralis]

Just know what due to the fact that you are not a mahasiddha, you could be wrong about every one of your assumptions.

 

How have you determined that? You might be wrong!

[Birch]

Who determines the correct information? If this information feels and looks right does that mean their is any validity to said information? I assume you are talking about lineage and religious doctrine.

 

 

+100 but let's not assume there isn't anything 'useful' in the teachings. I touched on this in another thread.

[Aaron]

Hmmm,...considering post #153, I would say that Buddhism is surely not being served. Thus, as I'm more interested in Buddha, dharma, sangha, bodhi, and welcome, my only option is to dismiss his concepts, and be very wakeful as to your own motives.

 

And to CowTao,...for one to get slapped for opposing, one must first oppose. I don't recall you opposing any message, although you certainly used ad hominem on the messenger,...which according to Aaron is a noble, unprideful quality to be admired. Go figure!

 

"in the valley of the blind, the one-eyed girl is treated for her illness"

 

V

 

 

Hello VMarco,

 

If you want to know my motives, simply ask me and I'll tell you. I don't dislike you or think that you're wrong per se, but rather that you don't see the whole picture. Has Cowtao insulted you, perhaps, but it's only an insult if you see it as such.

 

If you've truly reached a degree of enlightenment, than you should understand that nothing we talk about on this forum will ever amount to anything, other than what we choose to take from it. I will not enlighten you, nor will Cowtao, nor will anyone else. Enlightenment is not taught, because we are all enlightened, just most of us never become aware of it.

 

The most enlightened being you'll ever meet is a child. You love to quote that saying about throwing your clothes on the ground and trampling on them, but I would suggest one thing to you, if you can remember what it's like to be a child and throw your clothes on the ground and dance on them, then you'll know what that saying actually means.

 

Quit teaching and start sharing and I think people will be more open to your ideas. Understand that you're not right, nor is anyone else wrong, they simply just are. Allow people to be free to be who they are and they will gravitate to you like ducks to breadcrumbs. Feed them, don't chase them, and they will eat.

 

Aaron

 

edit- Also do you really believe that I think ad-hominem is a noble and unprideful practice or perhaps is that your own reaction to what I've said? If I point out that something you believe is attributed to your character, that isn't meant to be mean or surly, but rather I see you as someone who has progressed far enough down the path to accept it as it's intended.

[Aaron]

Who determines the correct information? If this information feels and looks right does that mean their is any validity to said information? I assume you are talking about lineage and religious doctrine.

 

You make that decision. I keep saying this and people just don't seem to get it, there is no wrong or right, there just is. Stop moralizing and start thinking about it and the truth will come out on its own.

 

Very good question, I think that's the reason it keeps coming up over and over. Sadly those that can't distinguish what is are left with right and wrong and understandably, will never be able to grasp what you're actually saying.

 

Aaron

[Vmarco]

[Informer]

I need some help with that post,...is it in reference to #171 of this thread.

When who emerges from what void?

Who said there was a void?

What is a void?

What does regain individuality mean?

What is a soul?

What's interesting?

Is gate referring to a passage or door,...or sanskrit to come?

 

V

 

It was in the link you posted

 

http://wisdomsgoldenrod.org/notebooks/23/8#section4

 

Your questions are good ones, don't give up on them.

 

Just as there is a way to the void there is a way to everything, and even more, two gates can become one.

[Vajrahridaya]

Interesting,...I have not seen any indication that Ralis is not a Mahasiddha. It is obvious that you're not a Mahasiddha because your posts are contrary to someone who has reached the level of Avadhuta, a state of enlightenment in which the distinctions between good and evil no longer exist.

 

When did I ever state that good and evil are absolutes and not merely relative designations? Do you see my signature quote that comes up every time I post?

 

You could apply this to your absolute concepts of long versus short path as well.

 

Also... my posts are not contrary to the state of Mahasiddhas, they are merely contrary to your personal interpretation of what they've stated.

 

Are you really posting in a manor that hopes to make people see your perspective?

[ralis]

When did I ever state that good and evil are absolutes and not merely relative designations? Do you see my signature quote that comes up every time I post?

 

You could apply this to your absolute concepts of long versus short path as well.

 

Also... my posts are not contrary to the state of Mahasiddhas, they are merely contrary to your personal interpretation of what they've stated.

 

Are you really posting in a manor that hopes to make people see your perspective?

 

 

You have on many occasions stated your preference of the positive over the negative. Ultimately, that polarization does not exist.

[Informer]

It does generally exist, although it can not exist in a few perspectives,

then again you wouldn't be able to be talking about it if that were true,

now would you?

 

Any absolute as totality is inherently wrong.

[Vmarco]

[ralis]

It does generally exist, although it can not exist in a few perspectives,

then again you wouldn't be able to be talking about it if that were true,

now would you?

 

Any absolute as totality is inherently wrong.

 

 

What I meant was that the polarization is conceptual.

[Vmarco]

 

You could apply this to your absolute concepts of long versus short path as well.

 

Are you really posting in a manor that hopes to make people see your perspective?

 

"absolute concepts"....hey, great oxymoron! The Long Path is simply a path about concepts,...whereas the Short Path is a path that is engaged in dissolving all concepts necessary to remove the barriers built against uncovering our light.

 

V

[Informer]

"absolute concepts"....hey, great oxymoron! The Long Path is simply a path about concepts,...whereas the Short Path is a path that is engaged in dissolving all concepts necessary to remove the barriers built against uncovering our light.

 

V

 

Yes, it has some steep steps that one might tumble if not weary.

 

Some can't find the way back from the void.

[ralis]

You make that decision. I keep saying this and people just don't seem to get it, there is no wrong or right, there just is. Stop moralizing and start thinking about it and the truth will come out on its own.

 

 

 

I think you misunderstood my intention in asking Vajraji several questions. Many times Vajraji writes in a vague manner and I wanted clarification. Moralizing? Not in the least!

[Aaron]

Post #153 was a CowTao rant directed at me,...what would that have to do with your motives?

 

I wouldn't say CowTao insults me, although he appears to have insulted the him he thinks he is. I do recall using the word insult regarding another poster who asked in an arrogant way if I was on drugs,...but that didn't mean I was insulted. Don't think I've felt insulted since The Trial of Billy Jack in the 70's Being insulted is for those as yourself who believe in humility and pride,...but I already discussed that.

 

Wei Wu Wei wrote in Open Secret, “There is no humility, only degrees of pride.”

 

As for enlightenment,...everyone is in essence, light,...it's just a matter of uncoving it. CowTao showed himself, by refusing to discuss anything not connected to the party-line of his lineage, to be quite veiled from his light. You seem to think (as you stated) that CowTao is the second most enlightened person on this forum, which certainly makes your comments suspect.

 

Would an enlightened person be afraid to discuss light. Can you imagine someone asking Buddha a question about light, etc, and getting a response as CowTao delivered?

 

As I have mentioned,...I don't teach. So whoever "thinks" I'm teaching is neurotic. If there is something that teaching would be helpful with in the discussion, I'll suggest a book, or Youtube, or the such. What I do is share, I enjoy that sharing,...I enjoy observing how people use vocabulary. In person, people are often like kids around me,...they're drawn to being in my space, as if they were getting shaktipat. It's simply an attraction to my heart essence,...not a mental/physical charisma. Of course, since I'm not teacher, as soon as I talk my talk, they run. Very few people are on the Short Path,...and I have little interest in Long Path ways,...although they do overlap.

 

ad-hominem,...I partly agree with you. Definition wise, there are two ad hominem,...the one CowTao presented was attacking someone's character or person rather than responding to a question or message,...attacking the messenger. Where I would agree is when ad hominem appeals to one's emotion or prejudices, as in the interactions between Tilopa and Naropa.

 

V

 

You are missing the point. You have not thrown your clothes on the ground, stood there naked and unashamed, dancing for the pure joy of dancing and being free of your clothes, you still feel naked, so you talk about the experience, but you can't remember it, nor can you ever appreciate it, until you do.

 

You say you are not a teacher, but you readily admit you aren't willing to be taught anything that doesn't adhere to the short path. The short path is your clothing and you refuse to be rid of it. That's the point you're missing.

 

Get rid of the short path and then you will be naked and unashamed. Get rid of your hatred of other religions and then you will naked and unashamed. Be willing to learn and you will then be like a child, then you can take your beliefs, throw them on the ground and dance, because you will feel the freedom that comes with nakedness and the innocence that frees you from shame. I hope you reach that point some day.

 

I say this, not out of malice, but in the hopes of opening your heart and mind to something you might not have seen.

 

Aaron

 

edit- Also you aren't comprehending what I am saying. There is no such thing as pride or humility, they only exist within your mind. If I recommend humility, it is only because you are behaving in a way that appears prideful. If I thought you understood that there was no humility or pride, I wouldn't have to recommend that for you.

 

In regards to compassion, the highest form of compassion comes from the heart/soul and it is not bound by morals, but rather a deep and abiding connection to all creatures and an intimate understanding of their suffering. when you understand this, you will start to show it in your actions.

 

My last point, is that I see great potential in you, that's the reason I take the time to talk to you. I understand the goodness in your heart and the pain that you bear and I know that with time you will see these things as well and then you can begin to experience the beauty that exists within all things.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Twinner

[Vajrahridaya]

"absolute concepts"....hey, great oxymoron! The Long Path is simply a path about concepts,...whereas the Short Path is a path that is engaged in dissolving all concepts necessary to remove the barriers built against uncovering our light.

 

V

 

That would be any honest form of spirituality as taught by a genuine spiritual master. Key word is "genuine." Oh yeah, and "honest."

[Vajrahridaya]

You have on many occasions stated your preference of the positive over the negative. Ultimately, that polarization does not exist.

 

Ultimately, no it doesn't.. but it does does exist relatively and that's what we are dealing with here, through this body are polarities.

[Vmarco]

You are missing the point. You have not thrown your clothes on the ground, stood there naked and unashamed, dancing for the pure joy of dancing and being free of your clothes, you still feel naked, so you talk about the experience, but you can't remember it, nor can you ever appreciate it, until you do.

 

You say you are not a teacher, but you readily admit you aren't willing to be taught anything that doesn't adhere to the short path. The short path is your clothing and you refuse to be rid of it. That's the point you're missing.

 

Get rid of the short path and then you will be naked and unashamed. Get rid of your hatred of other religions and then you will naked and unashamed. Be willing to learn and you will then be like a child, then you can take your beliefs, throw them on the ground and dance, because you will feel the freedom that comes with nakedness and the innocence that frees you from shame. I hope you reach that point some day.

 

I say this, not out of malice, but in the hopes of opening your heart and mind to something you might not have seen.

 

Aaron

 

edit- Also you aren't comprehending what I am saying. There is no such thing as pride or humility, they only exist within your mind. If I recommend humility, it is only because you are behaving in a way that appears prideful. If I thought you understood that there was no humility or pride, I wouldn't have to recommend that for you.

 

In regards to compassion, the highest form of compassion comes from the heart/soul and it is not bound by morals, but rather a deep and abiding connection to all creatures and an intimate understanding of their suffering. when you understand this, you will start to show it in your actions.

 

My last point, is that I see great potential in you, that's the reason I take the time to talk to you. I understand the goodness in your heart and the pain that you bear and I know that with time you will see these things as well and then you can begin to experience the beauty that exists within all things.

 

Your posts are getting more and more bizarre,...now you're lifting various comments I've made over the past week, and tossing them back as if you just discovered the sun appears to set in the evening, after I pointed it out to you several times.

 

Yes, I'm quite certain I expressed the 1st Century Gnostic saying,..."when you can disrobe without being ashamed and take up your garments (beliefs) and place them under your feet like little child and tread on them, then you will no longer be afraid" thousands of times since 1969. It's like a motto of the Short Path. We all know it, and understand it.

 

The Short Path is not my clothing, and I for one wouldn't presume that any Short Pather had such clothing,...a clothed Short Pather is surely an oxymoron.

 

There is no need to get rid of the Short Path,...because the Short Path doesn't exist,...every Short Pather would understand that. Thus your comments sound more like an irritating (clothed) kid repeating what someone else said.

 

I'd also agree that your amusing rhetoric does not fit the definition of malice. However, your use of "hopes" implies someone quite unfamiliar with the pathless path of the Short Way. As Tilopa said, "And when all hopes and fears have died...", even those "rape hopes" for others. Short Pathers resolve the problem of hope and fear early on,...many probably understand before they reach the Short Path.

 

Yes, that might be your Chief Feature,...being a rapist. Like those people who have a personal agenda to send love and light. Those who send Send Love and Light,...surely unaware of the ignorance of their reactions,...are in actuality, psychically attacking others,...XXXXX,...psychic rape,...the violation of another with one's personal neurotic desires,...as in,..."I hope you will one day open heart and mind.

 

These "sending" XXXXXXs are in it for one thing, and one thing only,...TO GET. These agendas,...these unsolicited invasions on others,...is something I really don't understand. Perhaps it's a guy thing. Anyway,...sending love to someone is one of the most ignorant things,...for some reason, those XXXXXXs who do it, must feel that love is somehow lacking,...that light is somehow lacking,...go figure!

 

Why "go figure?" Because there is nothing to "get."

 

Finally,...another amusing parroting statement,..."There is no such thing as pride or humility" a line I've been mentioning since you started accusing me of pridefulness,...and quoting Wei Wu Wei to boot.

 

So,...looks like you starting paying attention,...however, I would not recommend the Short Path for you.

 

By the way,...the correct quote for your last sentence is, "the love that you withhold is the pain that you carry" Alex Collier Senders of love,...those who believe love is lacking,...are usually incorrigible.

 

V

Edited August 12, 2011 by Vmarco

[Vmarco]

That would be any honest form of spirituality as taught by a genuine spiritual master. Key word is "genuine." Oh yeah, and "honest."

 

 

You posed an interesting question,...if you dare look at it closely,...does an honest teacher teach concepts?

 

V

[Vajrahridaya]

You posed an interesting question,...if you dare look at it closely,...does an honest teacher teach concepts?

 

V

 

Of course, concept eating concepts. Like the story of the thorn used to take out a thorn in ones foot, and then both thorns are tossed.

 

The thing is, enlightenment is not the goal in Buddhism, that's just part of the story, it's also putting on the right concepts, methods and practices that can be used to help others attain enlightenment. We take a vow to attain enlightenment for the sake of others... this difference is very subtle and deep and is reflected in the Mahayana insight of the inter-dependency of phenomena.

 

I have tried to share my insights into it with others, but if your not ready the teaching won't make sense.

[C T]

Of course, concept eating concepts. Like the story of the thorn used to take out a thorn in ones foot, and then both thorns are tossed.

 

The thing is, enlightenment is not the goal in Buddhism, that's just part of the story, it's also putting on the right concepts, methods and practices that can be used to help others attain enlightenment. We take a vow to attain enlightenment for the sake of others... this difference is very subtle and deep and is reflected in the Mahayana insight of the inter-dependency of phenomena.

 

I have tried to share my insights into it with others, but if your not ready the teaching won't make sense.

Well observed, VJ.

 

Not only is he not ready, the way Vmarco forms his ideas says a lot about how unready he is, and never will be, at least for a while.

 

I mean, just look at the post he made above in response to Twinner... labeling words like 'rapist' on to others - that's totally whacked out! It goes against every single idea he is attempting to promote here on this forum. Now, that's as oxymoronic as it gets.

 

Yes, on the surface, with all these wordy posts he makes it appear, like a great illusionist, to be pulling rabbits out of not one, but various hats, some short ones, some even shorter, but for those with sharp vision, there is a lot of darkness hidden beneath. It pains me to even acknowledge this.

[JustARandomPanda]

Well, at one time taobums was a Daoist forum...meaning that people here do qi practises and stuff. So like Mal said, discussions are kept to a minimum and focus is on the other practises.

 

About Taobums once used to be a Taoist forum - well, all I can say right now is - Stay Tuned...

 

What Once Was...Yet May Be...

[JustARandomPanda]

Which is why Samsara is Nirvana, not that Nirvana transcends Samsara, but that insight into Samsara grants one Nirvana in it.

 

Oddly, for me this sounds Taoish, not Buddhist so much.