[Vmarco]

[Aetherous]

I cannot see how that's real compassion, in any way, whatsoever. Trungpa's definition to me is completely false.

[suninmyeyes]

How do you personally know that Bodhisattvas also dont suffer from some sort of illusion?They must be if they exist or ?

Public Enemy comes to my mind

Dont dont dont believe the hype(any hype)

 

Some of those stickers dont look shocking but I dont know like some sort of right wing spiritual activism.

Anyaway they would be riding a bycicle,so no car stickers for sure.

[Vmarco]

I cannot see how that's real compassion, in any way, whatsoever. Trungpa's definition to me is completely false.

 

Yes,...most are unfamiliar with real compassion, that is, the compassion of a Bodhisattva. To understand the compassion of a Bodhisattva, one would probably have a grasp of the Heart sutra,...that is, to comprehend Who's Who in Duality.

 

For Christian's, much of their idea of compassion is derived from their scriptures,...for example, they contrive that their definition of love is a synonym for compassion. Corinthians 13:7 says "love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things". And they agree that this conditional form of love, that is, bearing, believing, hoping and enduring is Unconditional Love,... but in truth, it is the submission, devotion, expectation and suffering to the conditions of their religions brewed beliefs.

 

The compassion of a Bodhisattva is fully compatible with her vow,...to be engage in life for the liberation of all sentient beings,...to obliviate the clinging to skandhas for one's identity. The liberation from all hope and fear. The liberation from all bearing and beliefs. The liberation from all faith and enduring.

 

And when all hope and fear has dissolved,...there is love,...effortlessly present.

 

A first century (Christian calendar) text said,...,..."when you can disrobe without being ashamed and take up your garments (beliefs) and place them under your feet like little child and tread on them, then you will no longer be afraid."

 

V

[Vmarco]

How do you personally know that Bodhisattvas also dont suffer from some sort of illusion?They must be if they exist or ?

Public Enemy comes to my mind

Dont dont dont believe the hype(any hype)

 

 

 

I don't get the feeling that Rappers have any desire to Wake-Up

 

[Aetherous]

[C T]

I cannot see how that's real compassion, in any way, whatsoever. Trungpa's definition to me is completely false.

Dear Scotty,

 

Your reservation is totally justified, in my quiet opinion at least.

 

I dont think Trungpa meant for those words to befall everyday ear/eyes. Its almost certain he said this in conjunction with some deeper practice meant for specific students of his lineage.

 

For everyday ears/eyes, he had this to say:

 

"Compassion has nothing to do with achievement at all. it is spacious and very generous. When a person develops real compassion, he is uncertain whether he is being generous to others or to himself because compassion is environmental generosity, without direction, without 'for me' and without 'for them'. It is filled with joy, spontaneously existing joy, constant joy in the sense of trust, in the sense that joy contains tremendous wealth, richness."

 

In this way, i think it is safe to say that compassion is the power that gives momentum to one's own desire for freedom from suffering, and also, at the same time acknowledge unreservedly that this same desire is unequivocally present, in degrees, in all sentient beings. Having determined this to be real, either thru deep coursing in meditation or thru having faith in the words of the buddhas, or both, bodhisattvas set about using this realization as the basis to generate tireless and equanimous intent and action towards watering the buddha potential in others. How this is done may not necessarily conform to our limited intellectual scope, hence sometimes we will doubt and question their methods and words. Funnily enough, this very fact of doubting can be construed as possessing a compassionate motive - it shows we do care deeply about what we think is right/wrong, and are not afraid to speak up for what we believe to be right.

 

We have all heard of some rare individuals who would have no hesitation to take on the pains and sufferings of others while adopting a secondary concern for their own comfort and ease of mind and body. Unless these folks have attained immovable insight into the highest level of equanimous regard (utter impartiality) towards all beings and non-beings, its beyond our comprehension how anyone can actually put this into practice. Until we ourselves have removed enough of our own fetters, such altruism will continue to fuddle our brains. Then, two things could take shape: Either we become moved deeply by the selfless nature of these kindly beings and find some ways to begin to emulate their integrity and also to assist in their work when we can, in which case we will share in their merit and also water our own buddha seed (transcended selfishness), or, we become envious and embittered, not only because of other's tremendous good hearts, but because the immensity of their impartial goodness reflects back our own impotency to be better individuals for others sake (deluded, ego-based selfishness).

 

I dunno... just some thoughts to add to the discussion.

 

Blessings to you and everyone!

[Harmonious Emptiness]

 

True Compassion is intolerant of all religions

 

Free the World,...from the Abrahamic memes

 

Know God, no Peace; Gnow Peace, no God

 

Don't Believe What You Think

 

Rallying for peace, is war

 

Religion Requires Faith

 

America, One Nation, Easily Divisible - Just Add Religion

 

Make Religion NC-17 (no children under 17)

 

Religious Tolerance is an Oxymoron

 

Love is Effortless...Belief is a Daily Struggle

 

There is Present in Time

 

Some may be shocked at some or all of those,...mostly because they do not understand real compassion.

 

-edit-

 

You do realize that Boddhisatvas subscribe to a religion, correct? And that assuming that all followers of religion are merely "tolerant" of other religions only alienates those who truly do respect anyone who makes an effort in their spiritual path. In other words, your blind "faith" that the abolition of religion will solve all of the worlds problems is about about as ironic as it gets.

 

You said "rallying for peace is war." Well then isn't this ignorantly generalizing about all religions and religious adherents equally counter-productive?

 

Get rid of religions all you want and people will always be pitted against each other. Divide and conquer is usually step 1.

 

-edit: also, just because differences can be used to divide people doesn't mean we should all be forced not to have them. That is not the problem, and the issues are never what they appear to be first off. Don't be fooled by these chess-game maneuvers.-

 

Sometimes making bold ignorant statements will bring some response on an invisible issue, but what is the karma of doing so? How could that possibly lead to freedom and peace?

Edited July 21, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Aaron]

Hello Scotty,

 

I can understand what VMarco is getting at, but perhaps he's not explaining it quite as well as it could be. I will try, in my limited understanding of Buddhism to explain what I feel is meant by compassion, in the sense that he's describing.

 

There is compassion as we know it, the idea that one has empathy for another and desires to ease that empathy. This form of compassion is driven by our own emotions, love, sympathy, etc. As a result it is bound by these emotions and required by these emotions to exist, and as a result this form of compassion cannot be relied upon because it is dependent on one's own opinions and views regarding compassion. So if one has no love or sympathy for the person suffering they may not want or desire to ease that person's suffering.

 

Compassion in a universal sense is not bound by empathy or sympathy, or any emotion for that matter, but rather by a deep and abiding understanding of the cause of suffering. As a result the "need" to ease one's suffering is not propelled by ones ideas about that person, but rather by an understanding of the nature of suffering itself. When one understands this nature then they are immediately drawn to compassionate action because of it.

 

What I think has happened over the years is that many Buddhists see compassion as an intellectual concept rather than an action, so they are not as prone to act out compassion because they feel the knowledge of compassion and the expression of that compassion in an attempt to liberate others is enough. In my personal view and experience, it isn't.

 

The Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path were set down in a sense so that people practiced what was being preached. One followed the precepts of right action, right thought, right speech, etc. so that they would, as Taocow has eleqouently expressed it, water the seeds of their Buddha nature. It is through practicing these precepts that one opens oneself up to enlightenment and real understanding of the nature of compassion.

 

At first one may just go through motions and perform these actions out of duty, but as one is filled with deeper insight, they will begin to understand that these precepts are not merely requirements of duty, but rather the natural actions of one who has reached awareness.

 

At least that's how I view it. I'm sure the Buddhist scholars will be able to shed more light on this. I'm not a Buddhist mind you, but I see the virtue of the Eightfold Path and I can understand the reasoning behind the Four Noble Truths, even if I believe them to be somewhat flawed (the Truths, not the path).

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that the three hindrances to enlightenment (imo) are selfishness, anger, and fear, and until one has been able to come to an understanding of the nature of these emotions, one cannot fully understand compassion as it exists within all men.

 

That's the other thing, as Cowtao pointed out, compassion, the highest form of compassion, exists within everyone and everything. I call it Love, you can call it whatever you want, but in my own experience, when I have had these brief flashes of true compassion it is never reliant on my feelings about another, but rather it arises because of a deep felt desire or need to ease the suffering of another. Now that is really, (imo), the result of empathy, understanding the underlying nature of everyone and being able to see everyone as being deserving of compassion.

 

Aaron

[Vmarco]

[Vmarco]

Hello Scotty,

 

I can understand what VMarco is getting at, but perhaps he's not explaining it quite as well as it could be. I will try, in my limited understanding of Buddhism to explain what I feel is meant by compassion, in the sense that he's describing.

 

That's the other thing, as Cowtao pointed out, compassion, the highest form of compassion, exists within everyone and everything. I call it Love, you can call it whatever you want, but in my own experience, when I have had these brief flashes of true compassion it is never reliant on my feelings about another, but rather it arises because of a deep felt desire or need to ease the suffering of another. Now that is really, (imo), the result of empathy, understanding the underlying nature of everyone and being able to see everyone as being deserving of compassion.

 

Aaron

 

Thanks for that excellent post.

[Vmarco]

You do realize that Boddhisatvas subscribe to a religion, correct?

 

No,...I did not realize that. If they do,...subscribe to religion,...I would be certain that they are not authentic Bodhisattvas.

 

Religion (sets of belief) obscures the Heart Mind. A Bodhisattva has thinned the veils of beliefs obscuring Heart Mind to such an extent that there would be absolutely no attachment to religion.

 

V

[Vmarco]

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Someday, perhaps we could converse about the Kalachakra, and the end of the Dark Age of Ignorance.

 

The Kalachakra initiation is a confirmation, an affirmation and a pledge to support the Shambhala war and to participate in the co-creation of peace on earth—a genuine peace that will reveal Shambhala. This is not a symbolic war, but an inner spiritual battle that will project to the outer. The inner always projects to the outer, and the outer is always a mirror image of the inner. The initiation is a commitment of true compassion that arises from the vow to free all sentient beings from suffering, not tolerating beliefs and continuing suffering.

 

Buddha instructed that Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhi Svaha! prepares the way to the true understanding of compassion. This does not mean to tolerate harmful beliefs that are in opposition to liberation or that support ignorance. There can never be peace on earth through false compassion, toleration of harmful beliefs, or support for ignorance. Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhi Svaha! leads to a commitment of righteous intolerance and the abolition of spiritual ignorance, not the moderation and appeasing of religious traditions.

 

V

 

lol. Okay, so now Buddhism is gonna have a holy war, and a dark ages too? anything that goes against Buddhist doctrine will be stamped out? Did you fail to take notice of exactly what your belief system did for Christianity over the last 500 years? Your proposing a violent Buddhist extremism. You slander the Dharma and the Buddhas name by using them in your label. It's bad enough to be hypocrite without doing so after 500 years of someone else making exactly the same mistake and finally starting to admit to it.

 

Humans will always be easily corrupted by power.

Edited July 22, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Aetherous]

Hmmm...well, I'm pretty much the opposite of a Buddhist, so I guess I'll duck out of here. WAY too many false beliefs being assumed to be true. Thanks for answering, though.

 

(sets of belief) obscures the Heart Mind

 

I do agree with this, and it's the reason why I disagree with most of what's been said.

Edited July 22, 2011 by Scotty

[Vmarco]

lol. Okay, so now Buddhism is gonna have a holy war, and a dark ages too? anything that goes against Buddhist doctrine will be stamped out? Did you fail to take notice of exactly what your belief system did for Christianity over the last 500 years? Your proposing a violent Buddhist extremism. You slander the Dharma and the Buddhas name by using them in your label. It's bad enough to be hypocrite without doing so after 500 years of someone else making exactly the same mistake and finally starting to admit to it.

 

Humans will always be easily corrupted by power.

 

Not if all humans had equal power,...by disrobing their beliefs.

 

Buddhism, according to Buddhism, is currently in a dark Age,...haven't seen where another is predicted. Nor did I predict the Holy War to make Shambhala accessable. I didn't write the Kalachakra, not give the Kalachakra Initiation to thousands, as HH Dalai Lama has.

 

HH Dalai Lama is quite a character,...he personally feels that anyone who believes in a god is suffering from mass delusion,...but most Americans believe he believes in god. LOL

 

I did not predict the Future Buddha, Maitreya, who will usher in an era of peace through the obliteration of beliefs, thus liberating sentient beings from their suffering.

 

Unfortunately, people believe that they are their beliefs. I wouldn't blame Buddhists for shinning the light of truth on them. Which in no way implies another belief system. Vajrayana Buddhism, from which Maitreya is to be born, is not a religion, nor suppose to have any beliefs. Vajrayana instructs, wherever their is a belief, their is a barrier to Vajra.

 

No sure what you mean by "using Buddha in my label." My avatar is Kuan Yin, the bodhisattva once known as the monk Avalokiteshvara. Bodhisattvas advocate the liberation of all sentient beings. To liberate them from their beliefs.

 

Know god, no Peace; gnow Peace, no god.

 

V

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Not if all humans had equal power,...by disrobing their beliefs.

 

 

what makes you think this is possible when not even Buddhists can agree on what their own scriptures mean.

 

 

Buddhism, according to Buddhism, is currently in a dark Age,...haven't seen where another is predicted. Nor did I predict the Holy War to make Shambhala accessable. I didn't write the Kalachakra, not give the Kalachakra Initiation to thousands, as HH Dalai Lama has.

 

 

The dark ages were called the dark ages because there was a black-out on knowledge. Anything that didn't pay obeisance to a corrupt form of Christianity was obliterated. I don't see that happening with Buddhism..

 

 

Unfortunately, people believe that they are their beliefs. I wouldn't blame Buddhists for shinning the light of truth on them. Which in no way implies another belief system. Vajrayana Buddhism, from which Maitreya is to be born, is not a religion, nor suppose to have any beliefs. Vajrayana instructs, wherever their is a belief, their is a barrier to Vajra.

 

 

You said earlier that this war would be an outward expression of an inner occurrence. In other words it would be physical war. That would not end ignorance and delusion. To say so is so utterly deluded I won't even try to make it any more obvious.

 

One religion's "truth" is another's "belief"

 

 

No sure what you mean by "using Buddha in my label."

 

 

I was referring to the use of Buddhism as some way to legitimize war

 

"Someday, perhaps we could converse about the Kalachakra, and the end of the Dark Age of Ignorance.

 

The Kalachakra initiation is a confirmation, an affirmation and a pledge to support the Shambhala war and to participate in the co-creation of peace on earth—a genuine peace that will reveal Shambhala. This is not a symbolic war, but an inner spiritual battle that will project to the outer. The inner always projects to the outer, and the outer is always a mirror image of the inner. The initiation is a commitment of true compassion that arises from the vow to free all sentient beings from suffering, not tolerating beliefs and continuing suffering. "

 

Sure, you didn't come up with this idea, but support something that has been foolishly believed in so many times in the past... How many times do you need to beat your head with a hammer before you realize it's a bad idea?

Edited July 22, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Vmarco]

[Harmonious Emptiness]

[Vmarco]

If it is/were possible to raise a vibration to enlighten all human beings then it would need to enlighten even those with the most selfish self-interest. It was not so easy to enlighten even those who did Awaken. How would the rest of the non-corrupted suddenly reach enlighenment if it wouldn't get to those with something material to lose.

 

By the way, you can get a naturopath to hook you up to crystals that balance your body frequency with that of the earth (7.2 or something). When we are above this freqency we are stressed and get diseases of stress, when below we are run down and get diseases of being torbid. So they know the right frequency, and it can eliminate disease, and make you feel nice, but it doesn't provide Illumination, freedom from delusion and ignorance, etc. etc...

 

Be humble, believe in yourself.

 

 

Wu Wei Wu correctly said, there is no humility, only degress of pride. As far as beliving in oneself,...that is a for certain way to maintain a hollow heart.

 

Songwriter Trent Reznor sings, Inside your heart, it is black, and its hollow, and its cold. . . . What if this whole crusade is a charade in the name of the holy and the divine. . . Are you brave enough to see . . . or so naive you keep holding on to what you want to believe? In another song, he sings, Are you sure what side youre on? . . . Feel the hollowness inside of your heart. . . . What if everything around you isnt quite as it seems. . . . What if all the world you think you know is an elaborate dream? . . . What if you could look right through the cracks? Would you find yourself afraid to see? Those are surely some upsetting lyrics for those in denial and without the courage to stand consciously in the presence of reality.

 

Higher frequency has little to do with New Age crystals or stones,...or physical balance.

 

Higher frequency implies clearing barriers to the light and love all people already are. Enlightenment isn't something to acquire or add,...it's about letting of ridiculousness of self-interests. Self-interest is a cancer cell.

 

Anyway, it is obvious we are as about apart as a Christian and Buddhists.

 

Liberal Christians often make statements like, 'deep down Buddhists are really searching for God', 'Buddhism is just a different expression of man's understanding of God', or 'Buddhists are Christians outside the church'.

 

"Sadly, such statements are meaningless. Those kind of statements really show that Christians still wish to claim superiority for their own religion. They also show that the liberal Christian's supposed tolerance is dependent upon believing that Buddhism is just another form of Christianity. In short, it is based on a delusion. Liberal Christians will only be genuinely tolerant when they can admit that Buddhism is different from Christianity, very different, and be tolerant despite these differences."

http://www.uq.net.au/slsoc/bsq/budchr0.htm#cont

 

V

Edited July 23, 2011 by Vmarco

[Harmonious Emptiness]

[tumoessence]

I like the old bumper sticker,

My karma ran over your dogma.