Healing and Energy Exchange

[Ya Mu]

And my point is just that a certain hight of vibration does not seem to automatically lead to this realization because then all Buddhists and all Taoists with a certain high of vibration would teach this not just some or many. It might still very well be the correct way of viewing things just not a necessary consequence of a high vibration.

You are still making the assumption that the majority do not. The majority that ACTUALLY HAVE reached this level of vibration recognize this and it certainly applies to Buddhist as well as Taoist teachings. The gentleman's views referenced in cowtao's post IS typical of Higher Level Buddhist teachings; it also coincides with the Buddhist teachings I have learned.

[markern]

You are still making the assumption that the majority do not. The majority that ACTUALLY HAVE reached this level of vibration recognize this and it certainly applies to Buddhist as well as Taoist teachings. The gentleman's views referenced in cowtao's post IS typical of Higher Level Buddhist teachings; it also coincides with the Buddhist teachings I have learned.

 

My point is only that I don`t believe it applies to ALL who reach certain hight of vibration. That was how I understood your earlier posts.

Edited July 25, 2011 by markern

[Ya Mu]

My point is only that I don`t believe it applies to ALL who reach certain hight of vibration. That was how I understood your earlier posts.

It is a valid point. But my belief is that it does. No one can know until they personally reach those vibratory levels.

[oat1239]

The majority that ACTUALLY HAVE reached this level of vibration recognize this and it certainly applies to Buddhist as well as Taoist teachings. The gentleman's views referenced in cowtao's post IS typical of Higher Level Buddhist teachings; it also coincides with the Buddhist teachings I have learned.

 

I think there are no doubt many different systems with different approaches and goals, and not all systems may be perfect (if any of them really are), so different practitioners of different systems would probably do well to keep an open mind and be open to learning from practitioners of other systems, if the practices or goals are at all similar. Buddhism and taoism certainly is not mainly about qi cultivation and qi projection and healing others overall, although certainly some specific traditions may have such practices, but from what I can personally gather many other traditions within taoism and buddhism may have quite different focuses altogether, so trying to compare 'higher level' and 'lower level' based on 'energy vibration' or on very specific techniques such as qi projection or clinical healing ability doesn't seem practical to me in the larger context. The practitioner whose main goal and focus is 'no mind' or 'transforming the void into tao' or achieving 'spiritual immortality' in heaven or the buddha pure land may not have ever specifically practiced qi cultivation or qi projection for healing purposes, but in their particular cultivation system they may have achieved a 'high level' none the less.

 

Regarding the sending of bad qi into the ground thing, I believe Feng Zhiqiang's 'Hunyuan qigong', which I understand Feng Zhiqiang says he learned from Hu Yaozhen, contains a movement called 'jian qi xi zang', which means 'lower the energy and flush organs', which uses the idea of collecting outside energy to the head and directing it down through the body and in the process flushing out the bad or stagnant qi to the earth through the feet. If Feng Zhiqiang is teaching this as Hu Yaozhen taught the movement, then it would seem that Hu Yaozhen didn't have a problem with flushing bad qi to the earth for the purposes of personal qigong cultivation anyway, and Feng Zhiqiang doesn't seem to have a problem with it. I recall reading that Hu Yaozhen stated that he developed his Stillness and Movement qigong specifically for use for clinical qigong healing, so maybe there is a reason this is done differently when exchanging energy directly with others for healing purposes? Maybe just 'shaking off' bad qi in a healing qi projection scenario is not a reliable way to prevent the bad qi from re-affecting the healer or re-affecting the patient so extra measures are taken to deal with the bad qi in this context? I am not trying to be contrary here at all but just trying to see how this all fits into the bigger picture and trying to make more sense out of it all. I have seen other forms of Taoist promordial qigong that also have this practice of directing bad or stagnant qi into the ground while taking in external qi. Taoist 'primordial qigong' is generally considered to be a higher level qigong cultivation practice amongst those taoist traditions that practice it from what I can gather.

 

Like others here, I personally wouldn't rule out that part of the natural functioning of the Earth is to absorb and transform energy, just as it is with all other living things, and maybe with inanimate things as well. Of course any system can be overloaded through misuse or imbalance. If humans are living very unhealthy lifestyles now and with the population growing immensely, we may well be producing in various ways much more 'bad energy' than heaven and earth can deal with and still maintain a balanced equilibrium. I actually think we are passed the tipping point already and the resulting climate change and all the other changes and natural disasters that go along with it certainly seem to be on the increase. The overall prognosis certainly doesn't look too good from where I stand at the moment. Practicing qigong may become an essential skill for basic survival at some point in our future.

Edited July 25, 2011 by oat1239

[Ya Mu]

I think there are no doubt many different systems with different approaches and goals, and not all systems may be perfect (if any of them really are), so different practitioners of different systems would probably do well to keep an open mind and be open to learning from practitioners of other systems, if the practices or goals are at all similar. Buddhism and taoism certainly is not mainly about qi cultivation and qi projection and healing others overall, although certainly some specific traditions may have such practices, but from what I can personally gather many other traditions within taoism and buddhism may have quite different focuses altogether, so trying to compare 'higher level' and 'lower level' based on 'energy vibration' or on very specific techniques such as qi projection or clinical healing ability doesn't seem practical to me in the larger context. The practitioner whose main goal and focus is 'no mind' or 'transforming the void into tao' or achieving 'spiritual immortality' in heaven or the buddha pure land may not have ever specifically practiced qi cultivation or qi projection for healing purposes, but in their particular cultivation system they may have achieved a 'high level' none the less.

 

Regarding the sending of bad qi into the ground thing, I believe Feng Zhiqiang's 'Hunyuan qigong', which I understand Feng Zhiqiang says he learned from Hu Yaozhen, contains a movement called 'jian qi xi zang', which means 'lower the energy and flush organs', which uses the idea of collecting outside energy to the head and directing it down through the body and in the process flushing out the bad or stagnant qi to the earth through the feet. If Feng Zhiqiang is teaching this as Hu Yaozhen taught the movement, then it would seem that Hu Yaozhen didn't have a problem with flushing bad qi to the earth for the purposes of personal qigong cultivation anyway, and Feng Zhiqiang doesn't seem to have a problem with it. I recall reading that Hu Yaozhen stated that he developed his Stillness and Movement qigong specifically for use for clinical qigong healing, so maybe there is a reason this is done differently when exchanging energy directly with others for healing purposes? Maybe just 'shaking off' bad qi in a healing qi projection scenario is not a reliable way to prevent the bad qi from re-affecting the healer or re-affecting the patient so extra measures are taken to deal with the bad qi in this context? I am not trying to be contrary here at all but just trying to see how this all fits into the bigger picture and trying to make more sense out of it all. I have seen other forms of Taoist promordial qigong that also have this practice of directing bad or stagnant qi into the ground while taking in external qi. Taoist 'primordial qigong' is generally considered to be a higher level qigong cultivation practice amongst those taoist traditions that practice it from what I can gather.

 

Like others here, I personally wouldn't rule out that part of the natural functioning of the Earth is to absorb and transform energy, just as it is with all other living things, and maybe with inanimate things as well. Of course any system can be overloaded through misuse or imbalance. If humans are living very unhealthy lifestyles now and with the population growing immensely, we may well be producing in various ways much more 'bad energy' than heaven and earth can deal with and still maintain a balanced equilibrium. I actually think we are passed the tipping point already and the resulting climate change and all the other changes and natural disasters that go along with it certainly seem to be on the increase. The overall prognosis certainly doesn't look too good from where I stand at the moment. Practicing qigong may become an essential skill for basic survival at some point in our future.

"I recall reading that Hu Yaozhen stated that he developed his Stillness and Movement qigong specifically for use for clinical qigong healing, so maybe there is a reason this is done differently when exchanging energy directly with others for healing purposes?"

 

Stillness-Movement is a deep personal cultivation system that utilizes the highest level arts of Buddhism and Taoism. It is ALSO the basis for medical qigong. It works by raising the energy body vibration. When this happens there is a consciousness shift, an opening, a meshing, a "Linking"; this is why I said that when practitioners reached this level of vibration they would know for themselves. Always. All practitioners. Always. All. If a practitioner does not raise to this vibration it is extremely difficult to impossible for these things to become self-evident. If this does not happen a practitioner can understand these things intellectually but not intimately.

 

Yes, IMO and IME Earth IS a living entity and Yes IMO humanity has dumped on Earth enough. It is time for us to assume responsibility for who we really are. And IMO there is no automatic "oh the earth can handle that". Why does anyone here think the Higher Level accomplished practices even have a technique for transmuting it to Light, why bother? IMO, "Oh, let Jesus handle it. He is strong enough as he was designed to handle these energies." is as stupid a statement as thinking Earth can handle it. Or we could just say "It is all roses and ice cream!" which would be another, IMO, stupid statement.

 

Earth IS at a tipping point. I am beginning to think humanity is too damn dumb to change. Far too many seem to want to live in their intellectual prowess, or their bodies and physical prowess instead of embracing the spiritual and mystical aspect of themselves and the universe.

 

You do have it partly right from your reading. But be careful about trying to understand a system through what you have read (because you are indeed partly off), even from what I write, because this system can only be partly approximated or referred to through writings, never of course even coming close to the whole aspect. And parts of it I would never write about on these forums, nor has it been put into any book, as I know that neither Master Hu or Master Wang wrote about certain parts or aspects of the system.

 

But yes, qi projection has different natural laws than simple qigong practice. Medical qigong is a whole other science and art. If anyone wishes to know it they should study it.

[Jetsun]

Regarding the sending of bad qi into the ground thing, I believe Feng Zhiqiang's 'Hunyuan qigong', which I understand Feng Zhiqiang says he learned from Hu Yaozhen, contains a movement called 'jian qi xi zang', which means 'lower the energy and flush organs', which uses the idea of collecting outside energy to the head and directing it down through the body and in the process flushing out the bad or stagnant qi to the earth through the feet. If Feng Zhiqiang is teaching this as Hu Yaozhen taught the movement, then it would seem that Hu Yaozhen didn't have a problem with flushing bad qi to the earth for the purposes of personal qigong cultivation anyway, and Feng Zhiqiang doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

 

This matches the method of the healer I mentioned Yap Soon Yeung, but it is not about giving your sickness to the earth (although that might happen, i'm not sure) but it is about flushing towards the earth, which creates a letting go effect. I mention this healer because I went through a period of seeing a lot of healers starting off with the local ones doing body work etc and then travelling nationally to see more "famous" ones who had written books on the subject and had reputations and this guy Yap Soon Yeung was the only one I was really convinced by. I spoke to some people who had been treated by him and one woman had regained movement in a foot which doctors had told her was paralysed, another case helping a couple conceive a child who were told they couldn't, there are many testimonies that he can do more than just the local Reiki healer can do, yet his principles are very simple of flushing downward and letting go.

 

Going further into how he heals he says he goes into the deeper levels of consciousness beyond the "alaya" consciousness where the storehouse and seeds of problems begin:

"The deepest core of the alaya consciousness is a kind of luminous transparent light. In the Hua Yen Sutra this is separated from the alaya as the the ninth consciousness Tathagata garbha. In CFQ meditation, during the process of initiating students, I connect the cleansing and radiating effect to this transparent light, so that will continue to radiate, cleansing the first eight levels of consciousness of disease-causing, karmic-forming energies"

- 'Energy Medicine in CFQ healing' - Yap Soon-Yeong & Choc Hiew

 

So maybe he is transmuting and purifying sick Qi with pure radiant light and not dumping it anywhere

[C T]

Thanks for the clarification.

It is truly great that you are offering this to family and friends as well as the animals. I think the animals are often neglected when most speak of these practices and these healing techniques work oh so well for the animals.

Bless you for doing that.

May the blessings return to you a thousand times a thousand, Ya Mu.

 

Thank you.

[C T]

 

So maybe he is transmuting and purifying sick Qi with pure radiant light and not dumping it anywhere

No doubt.

 

More than this, at the highest levels, there is no sick energy as such, understand? Disturbed emotions for sure, but underlying these, at the energetic levels, its simply energy. Authentic healers thrive on their ability to go right to the essence of energy and not remain stuck at the coarser levels where dualistic poles operate. Beyond boundaries - the term speaks for itself. Such boundaries exist where people's minds are still caught up in notions of good and bad, positive and negative. All paths, be they healing or spiritual, speak of Union, of returning full circle to where it all begins and end, which is Emptiness, or Hollowness. Its not difficult to heal - everyone has the potential, but hollowing out oneself so that no good nor bad can distract one's state of being is slightly harder to maintain at a constant level. Its clear the gentleman you cited, Mr Yap, has mastery over this. To be a top notch healer one cannot afford to have a distractive mind.

[oat1239]

Stillness-Movement is a deep personal cultivation system that utilizes the highest level arts of Buddhism and Taoism. It is ALSO the basis for medical qigong. It works by raising the energy body vibration. When this happens there is a consciousness shift, an opening, a meshing, a "Linking"; this is why I said that when practitioners reached this level of vibration they would know for themselves. Always. All practitioners. Always. All. If a practitioner does not raise to this vibration it is extremely difficult to impossible for these things to become self-evident. If this does not happen a practitioner can understand these things intellectually but not intimately.

 

Hello Ya Mu. I understand completely what you are saying but the fact is Hu Yaozhen also taught a form of traditional taoist internal cultivation qigong (not medical or martial qigong) to Feng Zhiqiang which Feng Zhiqiang has continued to teach and which does include the practice of directing bad or stagnant qi into the ground. Other respected Taoist lineages such as the dragon gate lineage and some wudang traditions also seem to have similar practices from what I have seen. This is just an observation on my part. I am not arguiing that it is not better to transform sick qi than to direct it into the earth, because I really don't know either way, but I am just trying to view it all in a broader context based on what I have observed elsewhere.

 

Various taoist traditions also have qigong practices that draw energy from the earth or from trees and mountains and valleys and such. Does this hurt the earth or trees as well? I don't know the answer to this either, but I know it is taught in at least some taoist cultivation traditions. For example, different types of trees are supposed to have energy that helps specifically with specific organs in the body and drawing in this energy can help heal the associated organs. At any rate, no worries here. This wouldn't be the first time over the years that I have encountered such apparent contradictions from different teachers and it likely won't be the last. Contradictions and different approaches and points of view seem to be as plentiful as there are different traditions and teachers, sometimes even amongst different teachers from the same tradition. That is just another observation on my part. I allow that at least some of the contradictions could very well be because of major shortcomings in my understanding and perception. Ya Mu, the medical qigong that you teach sounds very interesting to me and I may try to make it out to one of your workshops if I can manage it. Have to ses how the scheduling pans out. Thanks very much for the info and comments from your perspective.

[Ya Mu]

This matches the method of the healer I mentioned Yap Soon Yeung, but it is not about giving your sickness to the earth (although that might happen, i'm not sure) but it is about flushing towards the earth, which creates a letting go effect. I mention this healer because I went through a period of seeing a lot of healers starting off with the local ones doing body work etc and then travelling nationally to see more "famous" ones who had written books on the subject and had reputations and this guy Yap Soon Yeung was the only one I was really convinced by. I spoke to some people who had been treated by him and one woman had regained movement in a foot which doctors had told her was paralysed, another case helping a couple conceive a child who were told they couldn't, there are many testimonies that he can do more than just the local Reiki healer can do, yet his principles are very simple of flushing downward and letting go.

 

Going further into how he heals he says he goes into the deeper levels of consciousness beyond the "alaya" consciousness where the storehouse and seeds of problems begin:

"The deepest core of the alaya consciousness is a kind of luminous transparent light. In the Hua Yen Sutra this is separated from the alaya as the the ninth consciousness Tathagata garbha. In CFQ meditation, during the process of initiating students, I connect the cleansing and radiating effect to this transparent light, so that will continue to radiate, cleansing the first eight levels of consciousness of disease-causing, karmic-forming energies"

- 'Energy Medicine in CFQ healing' - Yap Soon-Yeong & Choc Hiew

 

So maybe he is transmuting and purifying sick Qi with pure radiant light and not dumping it anywhere

What oat1239 was referring to was a personal qigong practice not wai qi liao fa.

 

"So maybe he is transmuting and purifying sick Qi with pure radiant light and not dumping it anywhere"

That is what it sounds like to me.

 

edit: sp

Edited July 25, 2011 by Ya Mu

[Ya Mu]

Hello Ya Mu. I understand completely what you are saying but the fact is Hu Yaozhen also taught a form of traditional taoist internal cultivation qigong (not medical or martial qigong) to Feng Zhiqiang which Feng Zhiqiang has continued to teach and which does include the practice of directing bad or stagnant qi into the ground. Other respected Taoist lineages such as the dragon gate lineage and some wudang traditions also seem to have similar practices from what I have seen. This is just an observation on my part. I am not arguiing that it is not better to transform sick qi than to direct it into the earth, because I really don't know either way, but I am just trying to view it all in a broader context based on what I have observed elsewhere.

 

Various taoist traditions also have qigong practices that draw energy from the earth or from trees and mountains and valleys and such. Does this hurt the earth or trees as well? I don't know the answer to this either, but I know it is taught in at least some taoist cultivation traditions. For example, different types of trees are supposed to have energy that helps specifically with specific organs in the body and drawing in this energy can help heal the associated organs. At any rate, no worries here. This wouldn't be the first time over the years that I have encountered such apparent contradictions from different teachers and it likely won't be the last. Contradictions and different approaches and points of view seem to be as plentiful as there are different traditions and teachers, sometimes even amongst different teachers from the same tradition. That is just another observation on my part. I allow that at least some of the contradictions could very well be because of major shortcomings in my understanding and perception. Ya Mu, the medical qigong that you teach sounds very interesting to me and I may try to make it out to one of your workshops if I can manage it. Have to ses how the scheduling pans out. Thanks very much for the info and comments from your perspective.

"Hello Ya Mu. I understand completely what you are saying but the fact is Hu Yaozhen also taught a form of traditional taoist internal cultivation qigong (not medical or martial qigong) to Feng Zhiqiang which Feng Zhiqiang has continued to teach and which does include the practice of directing bad or stagnant qi into the ground. Other respected Taoist lineages such as the dragon gate lineage and some wudang traditions also seem to have similar practices from what I have seen."

 

Yes, this is a simple flushing method common with a lot of practices. I think there is a slight misunderstanding. I am referring to wai qi liao fa not one's own personal practice. Although I will say that IMO Earth cannot sustain the current population.

 

Yes, we have a tree qigong method as well. Trees will react much better if one approaches with respect versus "I am going to take some of your energy". I have let students prove this to themselves over and over. I will say this is fact, not opinion.

[oat1239]

Going further into how he heals he says he goes into the deeper levels of consciousness beyond the "alaya" consciousness where the storehouse and seeds of problems begin:

"The deepest core of the alaya consciousness is a kind of luminous transparent light. In the Hua Yen Sutra this is separated from the alaya as the the ninth consciousness Tathagata garbha. In CFQ meditation, during the process of initiating students, I connect the cleansing and radiating effect to this transparent light, so that will continue to radiate, cleansing the first eight levels of consciousness of disease-causing, karmic-forming energies"

- 'Energy Medicine in CFQ healing' - Yap Soon-Yeong & Choc Hiew

So maybe he is transmuting and purifying sick Qi with pure radiant light and not dumping it anywhere

 

Hello Jetsun. Interesting about the different levels of consciousness and where health problems are rooted. I have heard a somewhat similar explanation in regards to the source of health problems being rooted in deeper levels of consciousness from a qigong teacher from a taoist tradition as well. Have you had qigong healings from the CFQ traditiona nd if so, did you experience any notable results?

[oat1239]

Yes, we have a tree qigong method as well. Trees will react much better if one approaches with respect versus "I am going to take some of your energy". I have let students prove this to themselves over and over. I will say this is fact, not opinion.

 

Right, my understanding of this practice is it is more about drawing this energy in to pass through you rather than trying to store it.

Edited July 25, 2011 by oat1239

[Jetsun]

Hello Jetsun. Interesting about the different levels of consciousness and where health problems are rooted. I have heard a somewhat similar explanation in regards to the source of health problems being rooted in deeper levels of consciousness from a qigong teacher from a taoist tradition as well. Have you had qigong healings from the CFQ traditiona nd if so, did you experience any notable results?

 

I had one healing session and practised one of the techniques for some time. For my particular problem it didn't bring the healing I was looking for, but my problem was psychological in nature and I have come to realise now that I don't think any healer could take that away from me as there were a lot of issues with secondary gain and identity caught up in it, so on one level I didn't want to let it go and I expect most healers will tell you in those cases there isn't much you can do for the person. But if you want a easy to learn healing qigong and don't have access to a teacher I would still recommend it as I can see how it can help for many issues especially if they are physical in nature.

 

edit: but I do remember it did bring up a lot of pain in a finger I had fractured many years ago, then after a time the pain went away and my finger appears to have returned to a stronger state, so I think it helped heal an old injury.

Edited July 25, 2011 by Jetsun

[oat1239]

I had one healing session and practised one of the techniques for some time. For my particular problem it didn't bring the healing I was looking for, but my problem was psychological in nature and I have come to realise now that I don't think any healer could take that away from me as there were a lot of issues with secondary gain and identity caught up in it, so on one level I didn't want to let it go and I expect most healers will tell you in those cases there isn't much you can do for the person. But if you want a easy to learn healing qigong and don't have access to a teacher I would still recommend it as I can see how it can help for many issues especially if they are physical in nature.

 

edit: but I do remember it did bring up a lot of pain in a finger I had fractured many years ago, then after a time the pain went away and my finger appears to have returned to a stronger state, so I think it helped heal an old injury.

 

I would guess any issues whether they manifest physically or mentally could potentially be tough to address if they are quite deep seated, so conceivably seeing progress for deep seated problems of any sort could potentially take a lot more time and effort. If the practice is at least doing some good and not making anything worse then it might be worth keeping at it.

Edited July 27, 2011 by oat1239

[寒月 Hanyue]

i do remember bruce frantzis saying to dissolve the physical energy.. that hasnt become "gas" in the etheric body yet, "outer" dissolving...into the earth at the end of a session of standing meditation im not sure if it is the same thing.

 

http://www.taichimaster.com/taoism/tao-te-ching-earth-linking/#more-1086

 

I know this thread is old(ish), but hey I only found it the other day

 

The blog post link is worth reading. It explains, as Ya Mu has been arguing that Daoists experience the Earth as an entity to be inter-acted with same as any other 'person'.

 

The "outer" dissolving process which is usually initially taught while standing, does NOT teach you to purge "sick" qi out of your body and dump it into the Earth!

 

The blockages are dissolved OUTWARDS to the edges of the etheric/qi body in ALL directions. This energy is then reabsorbed as it is free of blockage and re-enters the system. The downward flow of qi within the body is responsible for clearing the system, same as physiological processes. To establish the safety wire, it is advised to begin from baihui and scan downwards to yongquan. This is the movement of the Yi, the blocked qi (when found) is still dissolved in ALL directions OUTWARDS to the edges of the etheric/qi body.

 

Later you start from above the head and move to below the feet. This opens the physical body and the etheric body and enables greater flow and interaction between Earth qi, Tian qi and Human qi. It is NOT about dumping "sick" qi anywhere.

 

Best,