Six months of standing

[Ian]

[Yoda]

Shweet! How much is the bend in the knees? Even with the balls of the feet?

[Ian]

Shweet! How much is the bend in the knees? Even with the balls of the feet?

 

No idea! Really, I don't look down. Literally just the smallest movement I can make and still get a sense of release at the hips. (This was just where I was moved to, may not be appropriate for all.)

[Smile]

Nice. I was thinking of doing standing practice, but my body is taking enough abuse through my tai chi practices.

[el_tortugo]

[Cameron]

standing meditation is great. My main qigong practice. Do you do embrace the tree only or move through different postures?

[mYTHmAKER]

Where are your arms.

I used to embrace the tree.

Now I stand in wu ji - arms relaxed at sides.

Edited August 30, 2006 by mYTHmAKER

[thaddeus]

I think doing anything consistently like this with your intention deserves recognition in and of itself..it's a great achievement and an inspiration!

T

[thelerner]

The book Chi Walking has a simple exercise. Stand, on one leg for a few seconds, then the other one, then back again. Feel for how the pelvis (bone) moves from side to side as you shift your weight. Then tilt your pelvis forward a bit. Now as you shift from foot to foot you should feel less movement, more solidarity in your waist.

 

I've been doing standing exercises to the guided meditation series called the Archeaous (free) from Clark Rawns BardonCompanion site. They are about 15 minutes long and having to listen to something makes the standing much easier. Its an interesting take non taoist take on 4 element theory.

 

 

 

Michael

[sean]

I think doing anything consistently like this with your intention deserves recognition in and of itself..it's a great achievement and an inspiration!

Totally. Great job Ian! This really is an inspiration.

[Trunk]

Totally. Great job Ian! This really is an inspiration.

Yeah, that, what Thad & Sean said.

It's a real hallmark to see a topic thread started after 6 months of practice.

(Stopped me in my tracks with the "Restless after 3 days of Practice A, wondering which practice to do for the rest of week?" discussion thread that I was going to start. )

[sean]

Yeah, that, what Thad & Sean said.

It's a real hallmark to see a topic thread started after 6 months of practice.

(Stopped me in my tracks with the "Restless after 3 days of Practice A, wondering which practice to do for the rest of week?" discussion thread that I was going to start. )

I wonder if we all have ADD sometimes.

[sunshine]

And I thought it was the dog being in a human costume (or the other way round) that lead to the "awkward looking movements"...

 

Hi Ian,

 

I have started a few month ago with more regular standing practice myself and I belong to those that get these movements... I assume they could be "avoided" with a kind of special preparation phase for opening the channels and joints... in my case the body creates all sorts of TaiChi/BaGua like movements... maybe in part remembering I already oce did... maybe being the "original start" of all TaiChi/BaGua practuce, as they really look damn close to the "real" thing...

 

I myself always found it difficult to bind my "mind" completely to the practice... getting it involved with concentrating on all the parts etc. and thereby, by binding it, getting silent... maybe this is more the ability to concentrate than to have a quiet mind? (thankx Gerd for mentioning the difference...)

 

which helped me much was/is the (and now hold your breath...): I AM meditation

 

I have been doing this for more than several monthes now everyday... somtimes just one time a day but most pften as advised 2 times a day... and after I do not know how many monthes I realize that there are more and more periods during IAM-practice that the I AM is not "pushed away" by other thoughts or "left" for other thought streams... but only yesterday I noticed very clear that the "I AM" stream "gets me back to it" when drifting off to somewhere else... it has been there like this before but never that clear...

 

bzt whatever: over the time during my standing practices I realized long periods of standing where the mind was "at peace" without me having to do anything about it... and it was not the "day dreaming" state or similar...

 

now: what I haven'T yet figured out is if the spontaneous ssometimes snake-like movements happen on the verge of peaceful-mind-to-talking-mind, the other way round, or not in relation at all... I hope to one day find a distinction regarding this, as I am sure there is one...

 

Harry

[三江源]

Iaaaaaan is the duuude.

 

 

eggsellaant.

 

xxx

[el_tortugo]

standing meditation is great. My main qigong practice. Do you do embrace the tree only or move through different postures?

 

Me do all poses

 

 

here link to some poses found in most Chinese martial arts

 

http://flux64.wordpress.com/2006/08/26/8-postures/

[...]

when I *do* stand, (uhhh...),

 

I stand in several of the embracing-the-tree variances, as outlined in 'taoist sexual yoga', (or something,) written by yusemblove (or something..) he used to be a student of chia, I think?

 

I don't think I've successfully managed to stay in ETT pose for more than 15 minutes. At around that point, it's not so much about the energy cultivation as it is about forcing your arms to stay up through the pain... and energy cultivation is thrown out the window because you can'tconcentrate anymore...

 

seems stupid to me... so I switch around poses to keep my shoulders comfortable.

[mYTHmAKER]

when I *do* stand, (uhhh...),

 

I don't think I've successfully managed to stay in ETT pose for more than 15 minutes. At around that point, it's not so much about the energy cultivation as it is about forcing your arms to stay up through the pain... and energy cultivation is thrown out the window because you can'tconcentrate anymore...

 

 

 

If you hold the pose as long as you can and your muscles tense keep with it.

At some point the muscles have no choice but to relax and let go.

[...]

i disagree. that seems rather illogical to me. if the muscles relax and let go... your arms go down. some degree of tension is necessary just in the act of keeping your arms up.

 

perhaps if you're quite an adept and it's not your muscle keeping your arms up... but chi... and if you have this kind of mastery, to keep limbs floating on the power of chi alone... I would call you a master.

 

but... how long would such a feat usually take? I am guessing perhaps over an hour.

 

a guess a good question is... has anybody gotten to that point in their standing practice?

[mYTHmAKER]

i disagree. that seems rather illogical to me. if the muscles relax and let go... your arms go down. some degree of tension is necessary just in the act of keeping your arms up.

 

perhaps if you're quite an adept and it's not your muscle keeping your arms up... but chi... and if you have this kind of mastery, to keep limbs floating on the power of chi alone... I would call you a master.

 

but... how long would such a feat usually take? I am guessing perhaps over an hour.

 

a guess a good question is... has anybody gotten to that point in their standing practice?

 

First of all i am not a master.

maybe I can clarify.

When you are holding your arms up before the pain sets in your arms don't fall down they stay up

floating - relaxed.

You are using only the proprer muscles to support your arms with the appropriate amount of tension.

Make sure your elbows are pointing downward not engaging your shoulders.

Experiment by raising your elbows and see where you start to engage your shoulders.

After a while tension sets in , the muscles contract and it's difficult to hold up your arms.

At some point the muscles in your arms shoulders get so tense they relax.

In the martial arts the term relax does not mean limp. It means no tension, stiffness.

So hold your arms up past the pain point.

You can increase the time each time.

Also picture- feel your arms being supported by balloons or floating in water.

Breathe into the area that's grabbing.

Relax.

You can be a master.

[Ian]

Thank you for all your kind words, people. I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that nothing is really difficult except crossing that invisible line where you actually make youself do something. Like standing every day just takes the ten seconds where you say "Yes, I am actually going to do it again" and put your feet in the right place. Then the 40 minutes does itself.

 

Partial answers to good questions:

 

I find it very difficult remaining present after about 5 mins. After that I am maxwells silver hammer off on a magical mystery tour. would you elaborate?

 

Please don't imagine I'm present throughout. The only progress I have on that is to make much less fuss and criticise myself less every time I realise I'm off with the fairies. After a while you get bored with being cross and it's just business as usual, back to the sensation. Mainly I'm both present (a bit) and whatever else ( a larger bit ) but it still kinda works. It's a continuum, not an either or.

 

The main issue for me is that it's not about redirecting the mind, but about starving the mind by redirecting the attention. The mind tends to home in. The attention can be diffuse. Big, but infuriatingly subtle difference.

 

 

Where are your arms.

I used to embrace the tree.

Now I stand in wu wei - arms relaxed at sides.

 

Arms are low, in front, palms radiating on hip joints.

 

Hi Ian,

 

I have started a few month ago with more regular standing practice myself and I belong to those that get these movements... I assume they could be "avoided" with a kind of special preparation phase for opening the channels and joints...

 

My limited understanding is that you certainly wouldn't want to avoid them, as these movements represent karma being forced to express itself away by your non-participation. This, I'm told, is what will open your channels and joints, more effectively than anything deliberate. I'm told that after a while it will settle to more internal and less dramatic movement.

[hagar]

I bow in respect to your sincere practice.

 

Hope to achieve the same level of consistencey one day.

My practice is ideally like that of a marine in boot camp. You practice when there is a small window of time that you never know how long is open, but end up sleeping instead of doing anything else.

 

How wonderful it is to read your thoughts on chi sensation and how flow is not the same as friction.

Couldn't agree more.

 

I find that the tailbone/sacrum area is the hardest to open in standing positions. Also, this area "controls" the blockages or deficiencies in most of the legs and lower back. I truly find this a fascinating area to focus (or not focus) on. What's your take on that?

 

h

[lotusbud]

Thank you for all your kind words, people. I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that nothing is really difficult except crossing that invisible line where you actually make youself do something. Like standing every day just takes the ten seconds where you say "Yes, I am actually going to do it again" and put your feet in the right place. Then the 40 minutes does itself.

 

Congratulations on this!

I've been finding routine really useful to get me started lately. Like you say, just put your feet in the right place, why? well because I do this every morning. There is almost always a part of me that is screaming "no" and trying to distract me. Just doing it is so easy but......

It's like a parent trying to get their child to brush their teeth every night, sometimes they kick and scream, but if you miss one day you are toast because suddenly every day becomes negotiable.

 

Having the spiritual fortitude to depend on daily practice as a foundation for one's life and daily activities implies a remarkable power in and of itself. I hope to join you in the six month club sooner rather than later. I'm still gathering info about the state of my body and mind when I do miss a day. It really does seem to be that sometimes it gets harder when things are "working."

[Ian]

 

I find that the tailbone/sacrum area is the hardest to open in standing positions. Also, this area "controls" the blockages or deficiencies in most of the legs and lower back. I truly find this a fascinating area to focus (or not focus) on. What's your take on that?

 

h

 

I don't have much awareness there yet. I'm getting some movements from the hip joints in the front, and often bend forward from just above the sacrum, but have yet to really have anything going on at the sacrum itself.

 

In the movements I do, rather than in the standing, I have noticed a couple of things. There is one movement where we turn to either side with the feet quite wide. I was shown that I was turning too far and closing up the sacral area. The feeling I got when I paid attention and reduced the twist was peculiar and unmistakeable: it was the feeling that I could hold an egg at my sacrum. That sounds insane, but someone else recognised it when I said it. I haven't quite been able to recapture it since.

 

Another thing is on the movements where one does a simple "song qua", "minimal knee bend relax hamstring" sorta thing, I've been told to stick my bum out more. This is quite against the ideas of many taoists who are tucking the sacrum under, so it may be worth playing with.

 

Hope your tiny viking's doing well.

Cheers,

I

Edited August 29, 2006 by Ian

[hagar]

The egg sensation is quite interesting. I feel that when sitting correctly, and actually find it quite strongly when standing in a folded standing position.

 

The way I see it the sacrum area holds so much tension. In many ways my "aha" experience with this is that the area is closed because I tend to attatch to comfortable sensations when standing. If I truly relax in a regular standing position, the sensation is that the sacrum releases tension that is actually felt elswhere in the system. I feel that when I really go inside the sacrum/lower hip/tailbone with the mind and release, I tend to open a floodgate of emotion and reactions, and that is ofcourse very uncomfortable. So if I really do it correctly, I fell burning sensations and vibrations in my calfs, tensions resurfacing in my lower back and finally stuff happening in my neck and also wrists/lower arms. It is almost like the sacrum is a "lock" that is keeping the body space as little as possible to not feel the discomfort that resides in the body. If I stand truly correctly, and sink into it, and hold the knees only slightly bent (ZW always stresses this), I tend to get overwhelmed within a minute or two. But I also feel that if I was able to stand it, things would get resolved very rapidly. Strong reactions, sweat, emotional stuff, really alot of tensions, that is what happens when I relax into it. It overwhelms me, and my mind always in some way or another tricks me into movement so as to NOT feel the core of this experience. In my mind, this reveals, on a deeper level, the disconnectedness in deep areas in the lower torso and legs, and tells me that eventhough I have been doing standing for 10 years, I am still deeply disconnected from the earth and heaven. I grasp and surface experiences of comfort, and the ego constantly focusing on doing the practice in a shallow, but "smooth" way. So eventhough there are many ways I feel there is more integration, the really deep integration is beyond me.

 

It really feels like this can open up why deep stuff on the Jing level really is interconnected with the inability to draw in the earth water, and the light from above. The space in the body is dependent on this, and to create space there needs to be a free path through the system. I can't believe how blocked I am actually. When the water from the earth is blocked from rising up through the system, stuff likes sexual sublimation, retention, and real transformation of the Jing is beyond reach. Retention is an example of this: When I reach a point of "fullness" sensation, this fullness is limited. I realize that before a truly profound opening is happening between the sacrum and the legs, no retention practice will be successful. Any focus on building Jing is flawed.

 

Any suggestions to this very lengthy explanation?

 

Phew, good to get that out.

 

My viking is doing great, and has gotten a name. Lukas. Now I can say "Luke, I am your father: Join me and together we will rule the galaxy"

 

h

[Ian]

The egg sensation is quite interesting. I feel that when sitting correctly, and actually find it quite strongly when standing in a folded standing position.

 

The way I see it the sacrum area holds so much tension. In many ways my "aha" experience with this is that the area is closed because I tend to attatch to comfortable sensations when standing. If I truly relax in a regular standing position, the sensation is that the sacrum releases tension that is actually felt elswhere in the system. I feel that when I really go inside the sacrum/lower hip/tailbone with the mind and release, I tend to open a floodgate of emotion and reactions, and that is ofcourse very uncomfortable. So if I really do it correctly, I fell burning sensations and vibrations in my calfs, tensions resurfacing in my lower back and finally stuff happening in my neck and also wrists/lower arms. It is almost like the sacrum is a "lock" that is keeping the body space as little as possible to not feel the discomfort that resides in the body. If I stand truly correctly, and sink into it, and hold the knees only slightly bent (ZW always stresses this), I tend to get overwhelmed within a minute or two. But I also feel that if I was able to stand it, things would get resolved very rapidly. Strong reactions, sweat, emotional stuff, really alot of tensions, that is what happens when I relax into it. It overwhelms me, and my mind always in some way or another tricks me into movement so as to NOT feel the core of this experience. In my mind, this reveals, on a deeper level, the disconnectedness in deep areas in the lower torso and legs, and tells me that eventhough I have been doing standing for 10 years, I am still deeply disconnected from the earth and heaven. I grasp and surface experiences of comfort, and the ego constantly focusing on doing the practice in a shallow, but "smooth" way. So eventhough there are many ways I feel there is more integration, the really deep integration is beyond me.

 

It really feels like this can open up why deep stuff on the Jing level really is interconnected with the inability to draw in the earth water, and the light from above. The space in the body is dependent on this, and to create space there needs to be a free path through the system. I can't believe how blocked I am actually. When the water from the earth is blocked from rising up through the system, stuff likes sexual sublimation, retention, and real transformation of the Jing is beyond reach. Retention is an example of this: When I reach a point of "fullness" sensation, this fullness is limited. I realize that before a truly profound opening is happening between the sacrum and the legs, no retention practice will be successful. Any focus on building Jing is flawed.

 

Any suggestions to this very lengthy explanation?

 

Erm, yes, I agree with all of that. I think we can get the feeling of a little bit of friction and think we're open, when being really open is a vast, empty, smooth, almost featureless, state.

 

I don't really have any suggestions, in the technical sense. I haven't really tried putting attention there because I'm not trying to put attention anywhere. (except everywhere). "Strong reactions, sweat, emotional stuff, really a lot of tensions," I recognise, but most of that seemed (and seems) to come from just under the ribs.

 

The only sort of suggestion I have is that we can't stop the mind's reaction and that to try is to fuel it.

 

My aim, and I'm only just starting to grasp what it even means, is simply to abide with that which is not mind, that which is purely sensational. Thus the less I am mind, the more I needn't be entirely thrown off by its protests, however violent or cunning they be, because my investment in "something else" can continue alongside.

 

This abiding doesn't seem to be something you can really do. You can approximate to it, deliberately, and get an increasing idea of what not to do, but I think you need to rely, ultimately, on a combination of initiation/transmission and getting so bored of trying that you just give up.

 

Or maybe I'm just a really backward student.

 

Anyway, I'm assuming that if I continue this process it will get to the sacrum in its own good time. Probably when the rest of me is a little more prepared for whatever will be unleashed.

 

 

My viking is doing great, and has gotten a name. Lukas. Now I can say "Luke, I am your father: Join me and together we will rule the galaxy"

 

Cool. Can't wait to see him take a light sabre to the British Government.....