[TTC Study] Chapter 1 of the Tao Te Ching

[Apech]

  On 11/29/2010 at 8:24 PM, TianShi said:

it does. if other individuals are "straw dogs" to us, that is a big if.

 

Ahhh that's an old one - we have discussed this at length on previous threads. Marblehead has a very good take on this.

[Aaron]

NOTE this topic/thread has been moved to the Tao Teh Ching section located at the top of the Taoist Discussion section of The Tao Bums. If you would like to comment, please refer to that thread.

 

Aaron

 

P.S. Thanks for adding the new section!

[Marblehead]

  On 11/29/2010 at 8:02 PM, 3bob said:

"So yes, I suppose that it could be said that Hitler was living naturally while he was killing those millions of Jews if he was at peace with himself while doing it".

 

Imo not really, and not at all - for even a "Hitler" does not exist without the Tao - thus beings can only bend or go against that which is also of their own ultimate nature for so long and then, "whatever is against Tao soon ceases to be". (TTC 55) Which to me refutes any idea of Tao being democratically minded, for no separate vote or action against it can stand.

 

Om

 

Just to let you know, I do not hold to that understanding. But similar ideas have been presented to me in arguement. IMO Hitler lost the Way and Tao abandoned him.

[Aaron]

  On 11/29/2010 at 8:02 PM, 3bob said:

"So yes, I suppose that it could be said that Hitler was living naturally while he was killing those millions of Jews if he was at peace with himself while doing it".

 

Imo not really, and not at all - for even a "Hitler" does not exist without the Tao - thus beings can only bend or go against that which is also of their own ultimate nature for so long and then, "whatever is against Tao soon ceases to be". (TTC 55) Which to me refutes any idea of Tao being democratically minded, for no separate vote or action against it can stand.

 

Om

 

I think it's important to point out that living naturally has nothing to do with being at peace, rather it has to do with living in accord with what's natural. Killing several million people because you are trying to create a pure race is not natural. The last part "whatever is against Tao soon ceases to be" holds some truth to it, but even that can be called into question. It's as simple as the first time you ever asked, "why do good things happen to bad people?"

 

In the end, soon is relative. Soon may be a thousand or so years for a boulder that falls into a river, or a couple centuries for a civilization that constantly wages war on others. The thing to keep in mind isn't so much the "soon" but rather the "ceases".

 

This is just my western philosophical take on it.

 

Aaron

[3deedit]

I use a pendulum and a dictionary to obtain information and these tools guided me towards a new reading sequence of the TAO TEH KING : www.3deedit.be/taotehking.html

 

In order to comprehend chapter 1, read chapter 20 first.

The end of chapter 20 ends with " I drink from the Great Mother's Breasts "

In the translation from Twinner ; "the essence" should be understood as Dark Matter

In this translation it is called the flow of the way.

 

Dark Matter cannot be seen but it is vital and present in every single atom in the entire Universe. As in other chapters can be read : it flows even there where there is no space...

and : know the white, keep the black...

 

There is a saying : " Indoor flowers are like Humans without fresh air "

Understand these 2 chapters as a call to stop Air Pollution.

 

20 Wandering 1

20 GARDEN spiritual response

 

Stop thinking, and end your problems.

What difference between yes and no?

What difference between success and failure?

Must you value what others value,

avoid what others avoid?

How ridiculous!

Other people are excited,

as though they were at a parade.

I alone don't care,

I alone am expressionless,

like an infant before it can smile.

Other people have what they need;

I alone possess nothing.

I alone drift about,

like someone without a home.

I am like an idiot, my mind is so empty.

Other people are bright;

I alone am dark.

Other people are sharper;

I alone am dull.

Other people have a purpose;

I alone don't know.

I drift like a wave on the ocean,

I blow as aimless as the wind.

I am different from ordinary people.

I drink from the Great Mother's breasts.

 

1 The Way 1 VOYAGER:messages, transport, visitors

 

The Way that can be experienced is not true;

The world that can be constructed is not real.

The Way manifests all that happens and may happen;

The world represents all that exists and may exist.

 

To experience without abstraction is to sense the world;

To experience with abstraction is to know the world.

These two experiences are indistinguishable;

Their construction differs but their effect is the same.

 

Beyond the gate of experience flows the Way,

Which is ever greater and more subtle than the world

[rene]

  On 11/29/2010 at 1:51 PM, allan said:

Hi Rene!

 

Long time, no see and how are you? (Translated from the Chinese!)

 

It has been five years or more since we last spoke? ... I would not have known you are the real one and only Rene that I know.

LOL it has been five years, yes! And had you not had your bio on your site, I would not have known it was the you I know - until you made a few posts, that is.

 

Sounds like you put much effort into your version and I look forward to exploring it further. It will be interesting to see if you have changed your mind about anything.

 

warm regards,

rene

[rene]

  On 11/29/2010 at 4:17 PM, majc said:

Cross-thread reference, huh? Kerpow! Very nice. hehe, I never said I couldn't be what you call ornamental - I only disagree with making the distinction that it is somehow "better" than being idle.

Um... We were talking about being better 'for' something, not better 'than' something. If you want to play with this more, I'll meet you back on that other thread, if I can remember which one it was.

[Stigweard]

Chapter One -- Embodying Dao

 

Descriptions of Dao,

Cannot be the eternal Dao.

Though names may be given,

They cannot be eternal names.

 

Unknown is Heaven and Earth's inception;

Knowing begets the many separate things.

 

Therefore, enduring innocence

Comes from the subtle view;

Incessant desire for things

Comes from the superficial view.

 

Both “unknown” and “known”,

The “subtle” and the “superficial”,

Are still only descriptions,

Of the subtle mystery.

Subtle beyond subtlety,

The gateway of all wonders.

 

Stigweard's Daodejing 道德經

 

Original Text:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Chinese Characters:

第一章 -- 體道

 

道可道,

非常道。

名可名，

非常名。

無名天地之始﹔

有名萬物之母。

故常無欲以觀其妙；

常有欲以觀其徼。

此兩者，

同出而異名，

同謂之玄。

玄之又玄，

眾妙之門。

 

Chinese Pinyin:

 

Dào kě dào,

Fēi cháng dào.

Míng kě míng,

Fēi cháng míng.

Wú míng tiāndì zhī shǐ;

Yǒu míng wàn wù mǔ.

Gù cháng wú yù

Yǐ guān qí miào;

Cháng yǒu yù

yǐ guān qí jiǎo.

Cǐ liǎng zhě,

Tong chū ér míng,

Tong wèi zhī xuán.

Xuán zhī yòu xuán,

Zhòng miào zhī mén.

 

Ancient Seal / Bronze Characters:

 

 

 

Translator's Notes and Commentary:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Chapter Overview:

 

In Chapter 1 of the Daodejing Laozi is introducing us to the Taoist view of the world. It is the acknowledgment that words and concepts are not the living reality of that which they are trying to describe. That, in trying to label and distinguish things, we individualize them and separate them from other things. In this process we place comparable value between things and, by making one thing greater in value, we give birth to desire and longing.

 

Another way of viewing or understanding this desire is that, in the process of separating things from each other we also separate ourselves internally. This internal separation creates an inner sense of loss or lack which we try and fill with external things. But if we can maintain “the subtle view”, i.e. the integral view of wholeness, then we have no desire and remain innocent.

 

But again Laozi reemphasizes that even this explanation is still just a conceptual convenience of the mind and the living Dao is beyond the reach of description.

 

Of particular note is the absence of terms like "nothingness", "beingness", "origin" and "mother" from my translation.

 

Why?

 

Because I have observed many people will latch onto those words as if they are real. They divide their mind into thinking there is a "nothingness" and a "beingness"; that there is a an "origin" and a "mother". In other words they fall into the very same trap that, in my view, Laozi is warning us about.

 

I view chapter 1 as a master key for the rest of the text. It's purpose, I believe, is to help the reader adopt the "right view" so that the wisdom in all the subsequent chapters becomes self-revealed.

 

Line 1: 道可道 -- Dào kě dào

Dào 道 has several common meanings, including: Way, path, road, nature, reason, say, speak, theory, doctrine.

 

Pictographically, 道 shows a man 首 walking 辶 on a road. Furthermore, shǒu首 indicates: first, leader, or chief, so we have the sense of Dào being a noble ‘way’, or a path of prime significance.

 

Kě is commonly translated as: may, can, to be able to.

 

It is almost universally accepted in translations that the two dàos have differing meanings. Firstly we have Dào being the “universal way” that Laozi is implicating. There is much conjecture, however, over the second Dào. Some will follow the line of thought that it means traveled, trodden, walked etc. Others will adopt the “spoken” or “theorizing” extrapolation.

 

I have chosen to follow the say/speak meaning in the form of “description” as it ties in with subsequent lines the chapter.

 

Line 2: 非常道。-- Fēi cháng dào.

 

Fēi 非 presents a picture of two outward turned (broken) wings opposite to each other and means: negative, not, not to be, oppose, fault, mistakes, to refute, to consider as wrong.

 

Cháng 常 has a degree of controversy around it. Apparently the original character was héng 恒, but was replaced in all texts by 常 cháng out of respect to one Emperor Héng. Because of this, however, we can assume that cháng and héng imply the same meaning.

 

Cháng 常, the image of cloth on a loom, means: common, normal, frequent, constant, eternal or regular. Héng 恒 provides the image of a heart 忄 beside a sun or moon which is moving between two points 亘, thus we again have the meanings of: regularity, constancy, continually, persevering, or eternal. Important to note that Hexagram 32 of the I Ching is called Héng, which is often translated as: constancy, persevering, enduring.

 

Line 3: 名可名, -- Míng kě míng,

 

Míng 名 is what you call out 口 to people to distinguish who you are in the light of the moon 月夕, or at night. So it is your name, but it has also been used for a designation, a classifier for people, a title, rank, or position. To name something is also to describe it, thus we can see the theme of Chapter 1 emerging.

 

Kě is commonly translated as: may, can, to be able to.

 

Once again I am assuming a dual usage of Míng in symmetry with the first line.

 

Line 4: 非常名。-- Fēi cháng míng.

 

Here we have repeated theme of Line 2 and thus it reemphasizes the message made in the first two lines.

 

The meaning I am trying to convey is that names are only temporary -- the object of the name will outlive the name. For example the concept of "name" at one point in history was called "nomen", but now it's called "name". In one thousand years the concept of designating a word to something may be an entirely different word.

 

Therefore a descriptive of something can't be eternal, so something eternal like Dao eludes description.

 

Line 5: 無名天地之始﹔-- Wú míng tiāndì zhī shǐ;

 

This line also carries its own degree of controversy (see also Line 6). It is said that in recent times a comma was inserted in the line after Wú thus designating Wú as its own concept. This would create a translation like; “Nothingness, the name of Heaven and Earth’s origin;”

 

I am choosing to leave out the comma whilst rendering a translation that still relays the same implication.

 

Wú 無 simply means an absence or negative like the terms “no, not, have no”. It can either be the image of cleared patch of forest, thus negation, or it has also been pictographically linked to shaman dancers holding tassels with my implication of that the tassels become the focus of attention and the dancer “disappears”.

 

Míng 名 once again is a name or a distinguishment. Wú Míng is therefore to have no name, no description, no identity – hence the term “unknown”.

 

Tiāndì 天地 is the classic “Heaven and Earth” – the designator of ‘all that is’, or, quite simply, the Universe.

 

Zhī shǐ 之始 has commonly been translated as “origin”. However, close examination yields a more pertinent implication. Zhī is merely a preceding phrase as a modifier of shǐ, like the word ‘it’. Shǐ though pictographically can represent a womb and/or breasts. It can also be seen as a stick penetrating an opening or semen fertilizing a womb. The translation of origin comes from the idea that ‘we all find origin’ in the womb. I have chosen to use the term ‘inception’ due to it’s more natural connotations.

 

I think it is interesting to see here the first case of Laozi’s seemingly feminine orientation in regard to ‘ultimate’ forces of the universe.

 

Line 6: 有名萬物之母。-- Yǒu míng wàn wù mǔ.

 

Line 6 carries with it the same controversy over the insertion of the comma after the first character just like in line 5. Once again I have chosen to leave out the comma.

 

Yǒu is pictographically a hand grasping either flesh or the moon. It is commonly translated as “to have, possession, own” but it also denotes a sense of “existence”.

 

So whilst Wú míng meant to have no name or designation, Yǒu míng is to have a name, a classification, or a distinguishment. This is a continuation of the message in lines 3 and 4.

 

The rest of the line, wàn wù mǔ, has been prolifically translated as “The Mother of 10,000 things”, or “The Mother of the myriad things.” I have chosen a less literal approach to further emphasize what I believe to be the implications of what Laozi is offering in this first chapter.

 

A label, or a description, individuates something from everything else. It makes it appear as a separate thing. But nothing exists on its own. The fundamental lesson of Yin and Yang in the Taijitu is that all life is mutually dependent. Thus the naming of something, i.e. making it "known", removes it from its relative context with everything else. Hence knowing is "the mother" of all “things” being seen as individual things.

 

Line 7: 故常無欲以觀其妙；-- Gù cháng wú yù yǐ guān qí miào.

 

In line seven (as in line 8) we see another controversial insertion of a comma that attempts to distinguish Wú as an individual concept. Once again I have chosen to ignore the comma.

 

Gù is commonly read as ‘therefore’ and I see no reason to vary. Cháng is the same ‘constant’ or ‘eternal’ from lines two and four. Wú is once again simply ‘no’ or ‘not’.

 

Yù is almost universally translated as ‘desire’ and I feel it requires some extra investigation just for a point of interest. Yù implies a sense of lack, like a man who has ‘lost his wind’ and therefore has a strong want or desire for breath. So Yù is to want, to long for and to desire and, to remain consistent with the rest of the chapter, it is specifically the desire for ‘things’. The implication here is that in desiring a thing we name it and individuate it.

 

So what is the state of having no desire? Sure I could just say “always have no desire” or “remain without desire”. The term ‘innocent’ seems to me to provide the right implication.

 

Yǐ 以 pictographically implies something that emanates from and object, like steam rises from boiling water. One thing causes another. So in this first case the first section of the line, i.e. no desire / innocence, is something that happens because of the second part. Hence my usage of “comes from”.

 

Guān 觀 means view, see, perception or the way of looking at things.

 

Qí 其 is a pronoun like he, she, it, they etc. and usually refers to somebody or something mentioned earlier, in this case Guān.

 

Miào 妙 is once again an encounter with Laozi’s feminist inclinations (I like how it sounds like a cat). Pictographically we see a pair of breasts so we can garner the meaning of “as wonderful, exquisite, and subtle as a woman”. In this case, tying in with the rest of the chapter, I have chosen “subtle”.

 

Line 8: 常有欲以觀其徼。-- Cháng yǒu yù yǐ guān qí jiǎo.

 

Again I have chosen to ignore the controversial comma insertion.

 

Cháng is the same ‘constant’ or ‘eternal’ from lines two and four. Yǒu is ‘to have’, ‘to exist’, ‘yes’, or ‘positive’.

 

Again Yù is to desire. Yǐ once again is ‘comes from’, and guān is also ‘view’.

 

Jiǎo is commonly translated as ‘frontier’ or ‘border’. I have chosen ‘superficial’ as it polarizes with ‘subtle’ of the previous line seeing that the two lines are intended to mirror each other.

 

Line 9, line 10 and line 11: 此兩者，同出而異名，同謂之玄。-- Cǐ liǎngzhě, Tóng chū ér míng, Tong wèi zhī xuán.

 

I have chosen a less literal translation for line nine, ten and eleven in order to convey an accurate meaning. In this chapter we see linked pairs of opposites: named and nameless, known and unknown, subtle and superficial. If I was to be literal I would translate these lines as: “These two, are essentially the same though different in name, both just descriptions of the mystery”.

 

Cǐ is simply translated as “these”. Liǎng is pictographically either a set of scales or two oxen pulling a cart, hence, together with zhě, we have “two sides”.

 

Tóng means “all one”, “the same”, “identical”.

 

Chū gives us the image of a plant growing or sprouting from a pot, so we have the connotations of “produce”, “go out”.

 

Ér is a contextual contrasting term like “but”, “otherwise”, “and yet”.

 

Míng once again is a name, distinguishment, or description.

 

Wèi again introduces the concept of speaking, to tell, a name or description.

 

Zhī is merely a preceding phrase as a modifier of shǐ, like the word ‘it’.

 

Xuán is quite appropriately an intriguing term. Pictographically it is a silk-worm cocoon, so it is the idea of something developing under cover. So we have the meanings of secret, subtle, dark, mysterious, abstruse etc. Being silk-worms it can be the spiral-power of origin.

 

Line 12: 玄之又玄 -- Xuán zhī yòu xuán,

 

Once again we have Xuán, the mysterious and secret. This time with a double emphasis with Zhī being ‘it’ and yòu meaning “again”, “furthermore”, “continuation”, and even “repetition”. And then of course Xuán once again.

 

Line 13: 眾妙之門。-- Zhòng miào zhī mén.

 

Zhòng, indicating a crowd of people, means “many”, “numerous”, and the most commonly used “all”.

 

Miào, as in line seven, “as wonderful, exquisite, and subtle as a woman”. Most translations use “Wonder”.

 

Zhī of course and once again means ‘it’ and mén has always been translated as “gateway”, or “portal”.

 

Many translations opt for: “The gateway of all wonders.” I see no need to differ.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2010 by Stigweard

[rene]

Thanks Stigweard for adding your rendition into the Chapter thread!

[Marblehead]

Hi Stig,

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

I feel obliged to say this: I don't like the word "superficial" as applied here. This is because the Manifest is just as real as the Mystery. If we ignore the manifest, what is here called the superficial, we will be doing ourself harm by not experiencing the fullness of life.

[Stigweard]

[Marblehead]

[Guest allan]

  On 11/30/2010 at 4:37 AM, rene said:

and I look forward to exploring it further. It will be interesting to see if you have changed your mind about anything.

 

warm regards,

rene

 

I am all ears, Rene.

 

In case you do not know, some members here cultivate Tao under real Daoist masters. Whether or not they will participate in this sub forum is another matter altogether. But do not discount the technical expertise (available or lurking) in this forum. (This is in relation to your Nov 28 post about another forum.)

[Stigweard]

  On 12/1/2010 at 9:52 AM, Marblehead said:

Yep. I understand what you are saying and I don't disagree with you. In my mind the word "superficial" has too many negative connotations. I try to stay away from those types of words.

 

And when speaking of 'wu' and 'yo' I always suggest that we should attain a harmony (balance) between the two. Sometimes in our day-to-day living we need to devote our full attention to 'yo' but other times we should subnerse ourself in 'wu'. But after the extremes have been attended to we reassume a hormony between the two.

 

And yes, if we view only the outer appearance (often very superficial) we are missing so much of reality.

 

But that's just the thing tho isn't it ... you see "two" concepts that require harmony "between" them. The only thing that makes them "two" things and keeps them apart is that you are calling one thing yo and the other wu. Through this conceptual description reality suddenly becomes split and that split happens within and suddenly we have lost our integral wholeness.

 

Just a thought

Edited December 1, 2010 by Stigweard

[Marblehead]

  On 12/1/2010 at 12:50 PM, Stigweard said:

 

But that's just the thing tho isn't it ... you see "two" concepts that require harmony "between" them. The only thing that makes them "two" things and keeps them apart is that you are calling one thing yo and the other wu. Through this conceptual description reality suddenly becomes split and that split happens within and suddenly we have lost our integral wholeness.

 

Just a thought

 

Hehehe. You sound like Rene!

 

But they are two, Stig. I don't meditate when I am driving my pick-up. I don't cook supper while I am meditating.

 

Yes, they are of the same source. One (wu) is a purer state than the other. So we harmonize the two. We end up clear-minded but not pure. The only way most of us will be rid of all distinctions and be pure is to commit suicide. Then it won't matter anymore.

[rene]

  Quote

"Through this conceptual description reality suddenly becomes split and that split happens within and suddenly we have lost our integral wholeness."

  Quote

"But they are two, Stig. I don't meditate when I am driving my pick-up. I don't cook supper while I am meditating."

 

Getting past 'either/or' mindset can be difficult.

 

this

that

both this and that

neither this nor that

All four at the same time <--there it is.

 

And yes, I drive Marblehead's pick-up while meditating.

[dawei]

  On 12/1/2010 at 1:33 PM, Marblehead said:

But they are two, Stig. I don't meditate when I am driving my pick-up. I don't cook supper while I am meditating.

If you were, would you know it? If you could admit to doing it, is that really doing the 'two as one'?

[Marblehead]

  On 12/1/2010 at 3:41 PM, dawei said:

If you were, would you know it? If you could admit to doing it, is that really doing the 'two as one'?

 

Well, I will admit that my mind has wandered off the task of driving a few times but I would write that off as either boredom or being tired.

 

To your last question, that is the point I am attempting to make. Most of us, well, maybe many of us, do exactly that most of the time. That is, we remain rooted in 'wu' yet we fully live in 'yo'. I'm not saying either/or. I'm am say both to varying degrees depending on our externals.

 

Sure, some people place more emphasis on 'wu' and others on 'yo'. But that is their individual choice. A peaceful harmony, I think, is the most desired.

[majc]

  On 11/30/2010 at 4:49 AM, rene said:

Um... We were talking about being better 'for' something, not better 'than' something. If you want to play with this more, I'll meet you back on that other thread, if I can remember which one it was.

hehe, it was this one (where you agreed with certain good and bad categories of practice) but there's no need to go back to that thread - it's a very simple point. How is there a difference? Better automatically implies 'than' and 'for'. I'd love to know how you can see a distinction between the two!

 

Better than [x] for something.

Better for [x] than something.

[manitou]

  On 12/1/2010 at 1:33 PM, Marblehead said:

But they are two, Stig. I don't meditate when I am driving my pick-up. I don't cook supper while I am meditating.

 

 

This is interesting. Even though we aren't meditating in the archaic sense, have you ever noticed how many wonderful AHA's you have while doing something like driving? I suspect driving (freeway driving) enables us to focus our physicality on the driving and freeing the psyche for working out things, much like dreaming. It's just an interesting phenomenon. I am sure others here will know more about this and why it is so.....

[Marblehead]

  On 12/2/2010 at 4:47 PM, manitou said:

I am sure others here will know more about this and why it is so.....

 

Let me know if you find out, Okay?

[rene]

  On 12/2/2010 at 10:06 AM, majc said:

hehe, it was this one (where you agreed with certain good and bad categories of practice) but there's no need to go back to that thread - it's a very simple point. How is there a difference? Better automatically implies 'than' and 'for'. I'd love to know how you can see a distinction between the two!

 

Better than [x] for something.

Better for [x] than something.

 

majc - thanks for the link reminder! Semantically, 'than' and 'for' are sometimes interchanged in conversations, but it's the context that determines what is being conveyed; I disagree that it's an automatic implication hooked to the word 'better'.

 

With that picture you'd posted - along with the question - Which part of the water is 'better'? My first thought was: Better for what? Languid floating? The still part. Washing my hair? The waterfall. See? Some parts of the water were better... for something specific.

 

What is the difference between 'than' and 'for'? One of them is situationally dependant, the other is not. I think you can sort which is which.

 

I put this post over in the other thread as well, if you want to continue on this please do so over there. Thanks!

 

warm regards

Edited December 3, 2010 by rene

[Paulw]

Hi all, I am new to the is forum and I have sat and read al the comments on this thread with much interest.

 

I hope you don't mind me chipping in with my little take on chapter one. Although I enjoyed reading eloquence in language it does seem to lead the topic subject away from things a bit.

 

The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.

The name that can be named is not the eternal name.

 

The way that I read these first two lines are that the eternal Tao cannot be named as it is forever changing, because you have named something whilst it is changing your description will never be a valid view of it and it will never be the same again.

The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth.

 

Because it existed before heaven and earth and will remain when heaven and earth are no more

 

The named is the mother of ten thousand things.

 

The mother is the fruit bearing tree and the eternal cycle of all life

Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.

Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations.

 

Seeing is believing some do say, most only believe that they see with their eyes alone and not with their hearts, a solid form is the only reality to them but give them a sack and they cannot resist the urge to look in.

These two spring from the same source but differ in name;

this appears as darkness.

Darkness within darkness.

The gate to all mystery.

 

We will only find this gate when we fall over it, in searching it will elude us

[Marblehead]

Hi Paulw,

 

Mice understanding. Thanks for joining in.

[Paulw]

  On 12/22/2010 at 5:21 PM, Marblehead said:

Hi Paulw,

 

Mice understanding. Thanks for joining in.

 

Thank you, I look forward to reading more